Ramadan Mubarak 1436AH/2015CE

[The Paleontologist]

Fasting starting tuesday

[Habit7]

When is Eid in Trinidad?

[zoom rader]

When is Eid in Trinidad?

Why? You ready to re-vert?

[RBphoto]

When is Eid in Trinidad?

Why? You ready to re-vert?

Better than Christmas.... Ramadan is the most wonderful time of the year for eating Lamb

[pete]

Looking like July 7

[The Paleontologist]

RB you hosting any iftaar this year?

[zoom rader]

When is Eid in Trinidad?

Why? You ready to re-vert?

Better than Christmas.... Ramadan is the most wonderful time of the year for eating Lamb

That's what Habit7 waiting for?

I say de man gonna re-vert and give up all that singing, dancing, shouting , catching fake power and funding some pastor daughter to attend UNI.

[redmanjp]

is Eid 6th or 7th? I'm going Tobago that week so have to organize days off around the holiday

[RBphoto]

When is Eid in Trinidad?

Why? You ready to re-vert?

Better than Christmas.... Ramadan is the most wonderful time of the year for eating Lamb

That's what Habit7 waiting for?

I say de man gonna re-vert and give up all that singing, dancing, shouting , catching fake power and funding some pastor daughter to attend UNI.

Lamb is like Muslim Bacon..... Ambrosia of the gods. I eat bacon too.. so Yaayie!!!

[JF.K]

Fasting starting tuesday

Every year I hear my partners with this and it's confusion.

I always ask the question:
If Saudi saw the moon on Sun then why isn't it automatic for Trini's to know when to start?
They should be starting the fast today since is the same moon they looking for right?

They need a better system to spot the moon imo.

[sMASH]

Nope, system is sufficient. A community should physically look for the moon themselves. There will be ambiguity between different locations due to weather, but that should not be a problem, just apply the information into the rules there are. Saudi started to fast already, we starting tomorrow. Now chatted with an Indian, they're starting tomorrow as well, Insha allah.

It is not meant to be a worldwide coordinated event, but a means by which u canines nature to follow the laws, and practise to not let it become a epidemic contention.

Those persons who look to define a single point of rule, with put all the power and authority with those in control of that point. As it is, everyone has the rules, and everyone is supposed to understand them and follow them. And that way, they cannot be corrupted, as anyone from anywhere has the ability, right and obligation to correct the wrong.

A few places will have did on different days, and that is ok. And eid is really that whole week, not just that day. So is no real scenes.

[JF.K]

Nope, system is sufficient. A community should physically look for the moon themselves. There will be ambiguity between different locations due to weather, but that should not be a problem, just apply the information into the rules there are. Saudi started to fast already, we starting tomorrow. Now chatted with an Indian, they're starting tomorrow as well, Insha allah.

It is not meant to be a worldwide coordinated event, but a means by which u canines nature to follow the laws, and practise to not let it become a epidemic contention.

A few places will have did on different days, and that is ok. And eid is really that whole week, not just that day. So is no real scenes.

I am not trying to make this into a "Religion Discussion", just discussing the thread title wrt moon sighting.

So just to educate me...
Wouldn't it appear as though Trini's (and countries with our climate) are cheating a day from the 'month' of Ramadaan because of our geographic location?

Because isn't Ramadaan an actual month in the Islamic Calendar...
That would have naturally started regardless if you saw the moon or not?

For example... the other months of the Islamic calendar are started as ended when it is supposed to in a wordwide accepted way.
Correct me if I'm wrong...
But the moon signifies the start of each month in the Islamic calendar, and once the moon is seen (even by other countries) it means that particular month has started or ended.
So why is it different with the calendar month called Ramadaan?

Look at tonight...
The sky is overcast and cloudy again just like yesterday.
If you don't see the moon (again), does it mean that you will keep waiting to declare the start of Ramadaan?

If you base the start and end of each month in the Islamic calendar on when your country actually sees the moon then wouldn't everybody have a different calendar?

I mean... I understand the traditions of Muslim families looking for the moon to start the Ramadaan etc..
But in situations where the weather affects visibility, why can't you use the existing technology, communication etc to verify that the New Moon is actually out - just like what is done for the other islamic months?

Let's say the next new moon is scheduled to come out exactly 30 days after this one...
then the people that saw the moon (on it's first day) would be fasting for the next 30 days until the next new moon ends it.
But if (like in Trinidad) you don't see the moon on the first day and you start fasting on the second day.. then you'd only be fasting for 29 days.
Some could look at it as 'getting away' from the extra day of fast and others could look at it like missing out on that extra day of blessings.

From my humble view...
Another aspect being affected with this "actual moon sighting" is the day of Eid.
From what I know.. on the (actual) day of Eid, you are forbidden to fast.
So how can Eid be an entire week?
It may be 'celebrated' during a particular week but the actual Eid Day can't be an entire week.

Supposing the moon is sighted in another country (like it did this time) to signify that Ramadaan has ended and the next day is Eid... which is declared by that country to be (eg) 06th July.
Then really and truly, Eid Day is supposed to be 06th July because the New Moon is out.

But if Trinidad doesn't (actually) see the moon and they continue to fast on the 06th July... then wouldn't they be committing a sin (technically)?
(since u are forbidden to fast on eid)

Wouldn't the significance of the Eid day be missed because the moon was not sighted by your country and therefore you celebrated Eid on the wrong day?


Trinidad (and countries with our climate) would be more susceptible to cloudy overcast skies blocking the view of the moon and always causing this confusion. Especially due to the fact that every year the weather patterns are getting worse.

I remember this one time where people were so confused that half the country celebrated Eid on one day the the other half on the next day.

I think you can still maintain traditions but when it is really not visible then use the technology... just like it is used for many other aspects of the religion.

The scriptures that would have said to look for the moon probably didn't mean that (till the end of time) you have to physically look for it.
It could have been the instructions giving in that era since people then would have been confused if God told them to "check the internet".
(no offense intended)

Those persons who look to define a single point of rule, will put all the power and authority with those in control of that point. As it is, everyone has the rules, and everyone is supposed to understand them and follow them. And that way, they cannot be corrupted, as anyone from anywhere has the ability, right and obligation to correct the wrong.

This statement is a but confusing...

Wouldn't putting the "power and control" in mutliple 'groups' for their interpretation cause more confusion that if one (group) defines the rules?
(eg) if the Darul Uloom group declares when Ramadaan starts/stops based on what they determine... but the ASJA group gets word from a neighboring country on different moon sighting.
Who makes the declaration?

I would think that the country where the Islamic scholars study and reside should have the ultimate decision especially since their interpretation is usually referenced when understanding the religion.

Just looking at the scenario from the outside.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The Islamic calendar / Hijri calendar is a lunar calendar and so it is based on the moon and sighting.
Just like sunrise is based on seeing the sun rise, you can't say "well it's morning everywhere cause they saw the sun in Australia just now".

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

http://www.space.com/4389-malaysia-muslim-astronaut-fast-space-ramadan-minister.html

Malaysia's Muslim Astronaut Needn't Fast in Space During Ramadan, Says Minister

PUTRAJAYA, Malaysia (AP) – Malaysia's first astronaut will not be required to fast while in space even though he is a Muslim and the flight will be during Ramadan, a government minister said Monday.
"When you travel there is no compulsion to fast," Science Minister Jamaluddin Jarjis told reporters.

[sMASH]

We can and should use technology to AID in carrying out the duties. Like setting a time on a clock for the various prayers. The prayers are dictated by the position of the sun in the day. Not everyone, in this rat race world would have the luxury of checking to see what stage in the day it is by looking outside. So, u do calculations, find out what position the sun is at, put a time, then make an app to alarm when it is the correct time. Or, even post it on watsapp to the members.
U cannot the Quran a d hadith in an online database, for ease of access. So u can have it any where and anytime, without being bogged down with carrying about many items.
Just an example of how the benefit technology can be implemented to upkeep the adherence, in this modern time.

But as they can be used, they shouldn't replace the simple ways of doing things. Like when u are home or at the masjid, u should go outside and check the position of the sun for the for the daily salat. Just like reading Quran, when u have the luxury, take up the physical book and do it simply.

All the world was made to pray. U don't need a special place or building to perform the routine daily prayers.
U just find a relatively quiet spot, relatively clean, form ur lines, make ur intention and pray.

A physical masjid is good for a community to congregate, and become the center for a Muslim community.
But if u don't have funds, or a masjid is out of ur way, it is made simple for you. The guidance was to pray in congregations, and not necessarily the masjid.


So, u can use the calculations to determine where the moon is in relation to the sun and earth, and determine if u can see the first crescent from your vantage point. "The sun and the moon move by precise calculation" 55:5
There is the time that one should be able to see the crescent, when it up would be 'born' and u have to look for the moon then. The guidance is if u don't see it, then u have one more day, and u the next day to start fast.

So if u didn't see it because it was just out of sight, glue there is could cover, u take one more day and start the day after.


What u taking about is synchronizing the entire world to a specific time and date. And as duane rightly pointed out, it is not morning the exact same time everywhere on the plante

[Dave]

There is always dispute between the elders and the modern day brothers. The elders always refer back to what would have been done x amt of years ago where as the modern guys will use technology and know if they used man made items they tell if the moon is there.
Should a balance be struck?

Ramadan Mubarak to all my brothers d sisters are in Islam!

[RBphoto]

There is always dispute between the elders and the modern day brothers. The elders always refer back to what would have been done x amt of years ago where as the modern guys will use technology and know if they used man made items they tell if the moon is there.
Should a balance be struck?

Ramadan Mubarak to all my brothers d sisters are in Islam!

Is it really that hard to just look outside? Even I can understand that you have to see the moon with your own two eyes (or at least take the word of people who saw it) in your area. If the moon was not spotted.. well eat your food and most likely you will see it tomorrow. Dunno how it will work in antarctica or the arctic tho.

[York]

Fast when you see it (new moon) and break your fast when you see it (new moon). Cyar get simpler than that.

Ramadan Mubarak!

Make your intention in the heart to fast from the night before, even just before fajr break of dawn.

Pay your sadaqatal fitr one Sa'a = 3kg (6.6lbs) in staple food (grains). It is an act of worship and was not paid in money 1400+ yrs ago and they had dinar and dirham currency. Make food hampers and give to the poor yourself if you can. Add other things like oil, sugar, etc that they will need to cook with (general charity).

Pray as many of your fard in a masjid. Perform all sunnah if you can.

Perform Taraweeh in a masjid, 8 or 20 or more or less...all good. Do it hoping for a reward from Allah swt. Praying with the imam till he finishes, one will be rewarded as though he/she had prayed the whole night.

Read Qur'an in arabic as much as possible, it is worship (ibaadah).

Give charity daily.

[sMASH]

I had started that response before fasting, and couldn't finish.

Didn't realize it posted.

So as duane rightly posted that morning isn't the exact same time everywhere on the planet, even different days it isn't the same time, thus u can have different places having different times for the same events.

Using technology to calculate can work, but the guidance is to see, and carryout that.
It was made at a time without technology, yes, but also the calculations to carry out was also available, so they could have calculated manually.
But they used it to formulate the tables to know when to look, a calender.


This should mean that long time technology, outdated and move up with the times, and modern age.


But then u have things like don't waste water even if u are at a running stream, or don't cut down a tree if it is in fruit, and even in a place of war, to not destroy the environment (we can't do the burnt-earth war tactic) also, u supposed to spend some times in seclusion, I think is itikaf *spell, the early morning prayer, tahajud.
These things show a reference and regard for the natural world, and a separation from the mechanized world.


With much regard for the simplest things, and the guidance to actually look for the moon, should mean to actually physically look for it.

And I don't think it is simply the olden times way to do it. no, i think it is simple enough a system, so that in hard times, think ww3 and mad max time, u would still have all the tools required to carryout the fundamental tasks.

Imo, make use of the technology, but don't use it to the point that u can perform without it, as it wasn't meant to be done that way anyways.



Wrt not fasting on eid day but I saying eid is the whole week,, but u have the optional fast right after. If u think about it, if everybody cook the same day, and celebrate the same day, how much people going to visit who?
But if some days some family cook, and u visit a few of them, or as I do, help out them on those days to prepare, then other days u do up your thing, and have different family and friends come to yours, it will work.

U have the whole week to keep it, u don't need to keep it the same exact day, and if u fast in between u would make it.

Just like Christmas, one specific day is Christmas, but u go by some people on some days, and visit/entertain other people at other times. It is the season to do those things... for Christians.


Islam isn't as rigid, clinical, or mechanical as you would have come to see. They are some things that have led ways, or exceptions. Like a traveler is excused from prayer and fasting. It is better that they do it, but they have concession to be exempted from it.
The pray times have spans within which they can be offered. It is better to offer them as soon as it is its time to do, but u can offer them s bit later if u are unavoidably detained.




About not having one single authority, if that authority is corrupted and wishes to change up things for their
Own benefit, other people have the same exact rules which can be used to compare. Its the authority is more democratic, where not one body alone is responsible for maintaining the codes.
There will be differences of opinion on some matters which are not defined specifically, but each party has to present references for why they think what they think, and also provide some evidence as to show it has no contradictory references.

A lot of the differences come about where that group decides to negate specific contradictory information.
Take for instance suicide bombing. We as instructed to not kill yourself and not harm yourself intentionally.
Those people who chose to bomb themselves turn a blind eye to the some parts, just to support their own ideologies. If there was one main body who dictates what goes one, how can they combat that group? They would just bomb up everybody.
What if the main governing body was to be the people who say to do suicide bombing? Well then we dead.

But every body has the same texts, and are responsible for learning and understanding and discussing them. No one person can say they are the sole authority and change things, and everyone else need to call in line.
The power lies with each individual.

[JF.K]

......

[JF.K]

Some points you made are a bit confusing but I understand where you are coming from.

I think there should be a better system of communication for the public (local muslim community) to know what the Islamic Authority declares.
The start of Ramadaan and when Eid day is being celebrated (officially) will then be easily known and information easily accessed.

Especially since every year I see this confusion among my muslim friends...
One authority (in Trinidad) might say they didn't see the moon and another authority might say they got news from a regional country that the moon was spotted.

A website or media page or something should be developed and agreed upon... so the final declaration for Ramadaan/Eid is known collectively.

This would also make it easy for smaller/rural areas to know if they need to fast the next day... or organize early for Eid prayer next morning.

I am told that the existing local islamic websites are not immediately updated to inform the public on this....
which is something I think they should look into.

Good Talk though. [THUMBS UP SIGN]

[sMASH]

'Islamic authority' Islam isn't organised like the Vatican and Catholicism, where they decided what is what.
There supposed to be a giant umbrella called the caliphate, to which it would be more political or governmental like in operation. But even so, each community must do their own sightings.

The most authentic group in Trinidad is darul uloom, most of their rulings, interpretations are well researched, and line up with my u understanding, many people I know agree with their authenticity.


This year had less comotion than previous years. I got whatsapp messages, Facebook notifications, YouTube streams to the live announcement that the moon wast seen.

And I looked outside and saw that too much cloud, and the masjid whatsapp group posted it didn't see it.
We were all in a agreement.

Probably ur friends tend to associate with the other groups like asja. Them fellas ain't able.




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