Death Penalty Bill DELETE..rainman thread hav more bakanal

[RASC]

Ok...I can only go on previous bills introduced by this gov't. The last was the Anti-Gang Bill which was utter foolishness, loop holes galore and needed a rehaul like no other.
So if that is their track record, I can only presume the same can be said for this bill.

I need to read and analyse the bill before judgment is passed. I remain neutral on the matter of THIS bill.

Now with regards to crime, as a whole, my views remain the same.

[Bezman]

rowley argument from what i understand was that he wanted a separate bill outside of the constitution that would extend the appeal process from 12 to 18 months (12 months was in the constitution amendment by the PP), the problem is, once it's a bill outside the constitution modifying it any appeal/privy council/court could override the ruling, saying that the amendment bill is outside the constitution, and thus it's unlawful to have a unconstitutional bill amending the constitution.

rowley was trying to make a loop hole for those given the death sentance.

the PP agreed to amend the constitution bill to extend the appeal time from 12-18 months, but rowley refused that

he wants it to be outside the constitution so they could overrule a death sentence...

[link]

dem mc pnm JA's sacrifice d country to spite the PP.......fmc's.....
dey shud lan' up where dem prisoner salami cyar sell
f'ers

[mitsuboi]

Latest on d Team UNC-COP facebook page

THE BLOOD OF THE VICTIMS WILL BE ON THE HANDS OF THE EVIL PNM -- shame on the wicked criminal PNM -- defenders of criminals, rapists, murderers.....
The bloodthirsty criminal PNM will experience hell a million times for denying the people of this nation the implementation of the capital punishment law. This reveals the true PNM - they are in cahoots with criminals, not on the side of the lawful and decent citizens.

[mitsuboi]

And also

We wish hanging of the killers of innocent children like Daniel and Akiel, we make no apology for this -- we are on the side of the innocent and lawful citizens, 90% who support capital punishment. We strongly support law and order, while the PNM gives solace and comfort to murderers, rapist, molesters, and kidnappers. Pick you side - the innocent law-abiding, or the evil PNM criminals.

[rossi]

"Mercy to the guilty, is cruelty to the innocent." Anand Ramlogan 28/02/2011

[RASC]

HOLD UP HOLD UP HOLD UP

Where is the bill...who here has read it and where can we obtain copies???
You guys passing judgment without actually reading the articles...

Easily 75%+ of the population is in favor of corporal punishment and anti-gang legislature...but if the bills are CRAPPY, how on Earth do you expect it to pass?

You remember that Anti-Gang Bill? It could be the SAME foolishness again

I want a copy of the Bill before rushing to conclusions. Let's be rational here.

[rossi]

Yeah but what if the bill isn't CRAPPY?

[JMC]

Fricking rowley and pnm rel flick up yes
If one of them had someone close to them murdered, I wonder if they would've still opposed?
I hope this open the eyes of their remaining supporters and they see that PNM don't have (and never had) the country's best interest at heart.

[RASC]

Yeah but what if the bill isn't CRAPPY?

Well then obviously Rowley et al would have alot of questions to answer.
Because the will of the people supersedes what they think is "right or wrong". They are there to serve the citizens.

So where is the Bill people?

No one should have anything to say unless they can present us a copy for all to read.

[eyephone]

Lol. Allyuh fellas actually thought rowley and his flock were gonna support this bill?

Palance in the death row cells tonight hoss.

Rowley asked for certain changes to be made to the bill regarding the categorization of murders and the 18 month appeal. This was done. Now he wants to create a loophole in the bill.

This man better than Junior Sammy yes. He pavin he own way out out of that pnm political leader seat reallll fast.

[RASC]

Lol. Allyuh fellas actually thought rowley and his flock were gonna support this bill?

Palance in the death row cells tonight hoss.

Rowley asked for certain changes to be made to the bill regarding the categorization of murders and the 18 month appeal. This was done. Now he wants to create a loophole in the bill.

This man better than Junior Sammy yes. He pavin he own way out out of that pnm political leader seat reallll fast.

I'm sure there was much more to it than that.
If we can only go by what the gov't has produced before "anti-gang bill" then we can only assume that this bill was full of garbage too.

It needs to be opened up to the public. Why are both sides not making this happen?
The people of TT need to have access to this bill...it's wayyyy too important.

[RASC]

Rowley real playing up in he macaw if he doesn't push to make this public.
Because all this is making him look like is if he has a personal vendetta against the PP.
They are there to serve the people, and we need to have access to this very important piece of literature.
The vast majority of people are in support of the death penalty...and you shoot it down, without pushing for openness first? Madness... Bring the bill to the light please...N O W!

[Aaron 2NR]

^ well call uncle rowley and ask him for it....

[eyephone]

Rowley allowed his personal feelings to get the better of his judgement today. Imagine, it was shown on the parliament channel and made the news tonight, where the PM asked him to meet her to discuss things before they voted and he outright said "no"!

He said that the AG made offensive remarks to them and that was why he did not want to meet her.

Forget party and politics. Stand up for the law abiding ppl in your country nah man.

[pugboy]

time for the public to start protesting egypt/mideast style

[Bezman]

Rowley allowed his personal feelings to get the better of his judgement today. Imagine, it was shown on the parliament channel and made the news tonight, where the PM asked him to meet her to discuss things before they voted and he outright said "no"!

He said that the AG made offensive remarks to them and that was why he did not want to meet her.

Forget party and politics. Stand up for the law abiding ppl in your country nah man.

i forget about that..


so how long we have to wait before a constitutional reform bill can go before parliament again?

[RASC]

Everybody here, talking talking talking...

Nobody read the bill

Stueps

[UML]

so they say the bill "flawed" and cant say what the "flaws" are???

in addition to meeting their already dottish demands.

dey jus sour grapes dey cudnt do it...cause they were in bed with the "community leaders"




Blame PNM!!!

[RASC]

WHERE IS THE BILL

I blame both sides...more so the PNM for not pressing to have its contents displayed for the entire nation to read.
Rowley if you have a problem with the bill, pressure the gov't too expose the entire thing to public scrutiny.

[toyota2nr]

RASC I hope you glad eh.......... Your party make sure criminals can literally get away with murder.

'We love you so we take good care of you'.

Total waste.

[brickman]

They had their 'fete' earlier tonight,hope they felt proud of themselves,had a good time.

[RASC]

This is what I gather so far:

Rowley is saying 18 months is WAY too short for the response from the international human rights body to get back to a convicted murderer. If the 18 months is passed, with no response, we as Trinidad and Tobago cannot lawfully execute the convicted. We will be entrenching a stipulation into the constitution for the first time-that actually gives murderers a HUGE window of opportunity to escape the hangman's noose.

Because it is not currently in our constitutional law for the petition, we can technically IGNORE it and hang within the 5 year period, as is already on the books.

"If you entrench it in there (the Constitution) and the (Human Rights) Commission does not respond to you, you can't act," he said, adding: "So in other words, the abolition (of the death penalty) would take place by the commission not responding to you.

"They (would) have given people (convicted murderers) a constitutional right for the first time to appeal to a human rights body. That was not there before ... But they are abridging that constitutional right by saying the body has to take 18 months to hear the petition. Don't you see the Privy Council coming and saying, 'but you just give the man the right to go to a human rights body, how you could limit it to 18 months?'" PNM MP Colm Imbert added.

"In a situation where the Privy Council is already ruling 3/2 and 5/4 in our favour, what do you think they (Privy Council) would say when an appellant goes there and says 'look in my Constitution, they say I have a right (to petition) but they limit me to 18 months and the people (human rights commission) say they not ready in 18 months?" Rowley said.

"Because the right to petition a human rights commission is not part of our law, a government could proceed to ignore the commission and meet the Pratt and Morgan (five-year-deadline) and hang. In the bill, you can't ignore it."

He added, "It is all show for political spin. If you want to limit it (the time it takes to hear the petition), you have to limit it outside of the Constitution."

Now...Lemme hear you guys.
Same thing I've been saying...it has to be deeper than just "personal vendetta" The gov't is introducing a bill that satisfying their voting public while at the same time, technically makes it impossible for anyone to get hanged. 18Months??? You ever heard the international human rights council getting back to a convicted murderer in such a quick amount of time??? And you want to make that constitutional? It'll be impossible for the prosecution to fight that lack of response...The Human Rights Council technically doesn't want a SOUL to be executed, they'll just purposely drag their feet if they know a countries constitution makes it constitutionally illegal to execute someone having not heard from them within an 18month window.

According to what I know so far Rowley did the right thing. The gov't is just trying to appease their supporters while at the same time, giving a HUGE loop hole to the convicted. Every murderer would just appeal to the Human Rights council, wait out the 18 months, then say "ah ha they didn't get back to us, it's unconstitutional to hang me "

So then we'd (the prosecution) would just be stuck. The guy would return to death row, and live out the rest of his sentence.

Just like the Anti-Gang Bill, this Bill is FULL of holes and loop holes. That make it even harder for justice to be carried out.

[RASC]

At first I really wanted to go in on Rowley for mucking this one up...but my goodness, you people are good. You almost had me fooled

Rowley was right, and the people of T&T are not that stupid. If this bill were to pass it would make it almost impossible to hang anyone in TT. Human Rights Council getting back to you in 18months? Impossible!

Again, all this is, is about a campaign promise. They want to inact a law just so they can say "Yuh see we promise allyuh hanging, allyuh getting hanging" Yeah with a huge gaping LOOP HOLE entrenched in its bowels that would make it almost not worth our while to even have a death penalty. Any half bit defense attorney would exploit this to the max. All convicted murderers on the row would suddenly send a barrage of paper work into the human rights council-sit back and LAUGH, cause they know...They'll be free to live out their sentences.

We need a law where by we can by pass any international human rights council and hang on OUR terms!

Come back with a better Bill

[UML]

i say do away with human rights council......u lose ur rights when u kill someone....just like the victim lost their right to live!!!

and those human rights ppl just waste precious time to avoid hangings........jus listen to the Privy Council and hang in 5 years...WHADAP!!!

[RASC]

those human rights ppl just waste precious time to avoid hangings

EXACTLY!!!

[RASC]

Allyuh PP people really have no heart yes...or is it brain?

It hadda be brain, because you guys are coming on here, blasting Rowley when you don't even see the big gaping hole in the Bill.
The gov't is trying to make it so that it APPEARS as if they want hangings, but in reality they put in a CONSTITUTIONAL stipulation that in reality makes it almost impossible to hang a soul. Those human rights bodies, would drag their feet to no end. You think they really want to allow a gov't to legally hang anyone?

Death Row inmates would just rock, back with their lawyers and laugh.

Even UML agreeing with the PNM... Try again.

[UML]

I not agreeing with PNM bro....i just want tuh see some neck pop

im sure the PP will make fools of the PNM with their comeback...who know more law?...a WINNING lawyer now AG or a man who cah even build ah wall?!!

[RASC]

I not agreeing with PNM bro....i just want tuh see some neck pop

Well if you want to see neck-pop you'd have no choice to agree with Rowley and the PNM.

How you gonna put a big stinking clause that the person is allowed an 18month window to hear back from the International Human Rights Council Re: Their Hanging. And if we don't hear back from them...it's constitutionally illegal to proceed with the execution.

You said it yourself...do away with the Human Rights Council.they don't wanna see anyone get hanged

Therefore you DO agree with the PNM

[eliteauto]

so no one can link the actual bill but are passing judgment based on the utterings of politicians, so when ppl accept blindly the words on both sides of the divide, how come only the PNM gets the blame? Strange how convenient that is, reminds me of the saying during the elections that once you voted PP you immediately became enlightened and cared about your country