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zitanos wrote:So I was having a discussion the other day with some ppl about religion and heaven etc., coming out of that I had a few unanswered questions. So I'm asking the religious folks in here to educate me if they have answers on any of these.
1. Where do babies go when they die?
2. If heaven, then do they age in heaven, or do we all remain the same age in heaven that we were when we died?
3. I understand Hindu's believe in reincarnation, how does this work?
4. Are animals allowed in heaven?
5. The 72 virgins concept. Is this true? If so, seems to be a good thing for the man. What does the woman get out of it? And for married muslims, when the man die, does he and his wife separate in heaven, considering she most likely is no longer a virgin? (if so what becomes of her)
6. For believers of heaven, is there 1 heaven? or 1 for each religion?
If there is only 1, does jesus, allah (pbuh), and whoever else live side by side as multiple gods in heaven?
7. I know some christians believe, if you don't worship Jesus, you're not getting into heaven. What about the tribes in the amazon, or a baby who dies at birth, who never had the privilege about knowing about Jesus. What happens to them?
8. If you don't believe in heaven, or God... and you don't believe in hell where do you go?
9. Can heaven exist without hell? If so, then is it possible when you die, the only place to go is heaven? If not, then Heaven needs hell to exist, hence, so does that mean believers, should be thankful that hell exists?
10. If hell needs to exist, for heaven to exist. Then we need "bad" people, or non-believers on earth, for believers to be-able to go to heaven.?
Someone once raised the question, why did God put us on earth for such a short period of time. Imagine Most of us will spend 60-80yrs on earth, some babies spend a few seconds. Considering the length of time eternity in heaven is, 60-80 years or even in the case of the baby (a few seconds) is just a drop in the barrel when we consider the length of time which constitutes eternity. Are we really here for such a short time on earth ... to go to heaven and relax for the rest of time? (if so, sounds like a steal of a deal).
NB: I am not trying to offend any religion here. If I did, please let me know, and I apologize in advance. I'm hoping those of you with more knowledge in the respective religions can help us clarify some of these questions.
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d spike wrote:zitanos wrote:trini mk5 wrote:zitanos, Are u a person who likes to read???
If so the best advice i could give you and im not joking is to read a book called The Problem Of Pain by C.S.LEWIS. Hopefully u will read it. An internet forum is really not the best place to get answers on the Religon...especially 2nr
Ok thanks ill check out the book.
And yeah, I don't expect 2nr to be my only place to get answers. It was merely one forum where I know alot of trini's hang out, hence, I was interested in seeing the point of views from the wider 2nr community.
Oh really? So this post is really meant to "stimulate discussion"? Have fun, I'll sit out on this one.
FYI, I will ask these to more religions folks (pastor's/imam's/pundits etc) in person. Since I believe they may probably be more knowledgeable on the matters.
Yuh t'ink? (Although I never thought of these people as 'religions folks'.)
VexXx Dogg wrote:zitanos wrote:So I was having a discussion the other day with some ppl about religion and heaven etc., coming out of that I had a few unanswered questions. So I'm asking the religious folks in here to educate me if they have answers on any of these.
1. Where do babies go when they die?
2. If heaven, then do they age in heaven, or do we all remain the same age in heaven that we were when we died?
3. I understand Hindu's believe in reincarnation, how does this work?
4. Are animals allowed in heaven?
5. The 72 virgins concept. Is this true? If so, seems to be a good thing for the man. What does the woman get out of it? And for married muslims, when the man die, does he and his wife separate in heaven, considering she most likely is no longer a virgin? (if so what becomes of her)
6. For believers of heaven, is there 1 heaven? or 1 for each religion?
If there is only 1, does jesus, allah (pbuh), and whoever else live side by side as multiple gods in heaven?
7. I know some christians believe, if you don't worship Jesus, you're not getting into heaven. What about the tribes in the amazon, or a baby who dies at birth, who never had the privilege about knowing about Jesus. What happens to them?
8. If you don't believe in heaven, or God... and you don't believe in hell where do you go?
9. Can heaven exist without hell? If so, then is it possible when you die, the only place to go is heaven? If not, then Heaven needs hell to exist, hence, so does that mean believers, should be thankful that hell exists?
10. If hell needs to exist, for heaven to exist. Then we need "bad" people, or non-believers on earth, for believers to be-able to go to heaven.?
Someone once raised the question, why did God put us on earth for such a short period of time. Imagine Most of us will spend 60-80yrs on earth, some babies spend a few seconds. Considering the length of time eternity in heaven is, 60-80 years or even in the case of the baby (a few seconds) is just a drop in the barrel when we consider the length of time which constitutes eternity. Are we really here for such a short time on earth ... to go to heaven and relax for the rest of time? (if so, sounds like a steal of a deal).
NB: I am not trying to offend any religion here. If I did, please let me know, and I apologize in advance. I'm hoping those of you with more knowledge in the respective religions can help us clarify some of these questions.
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Answers:
1. THe hospital is your safest bet. Dumping bodies on the side of the road has implications.
2. What is heaven?
3. Reincarnation is not hindu specific. It just means you might respawn as someone else after you get fragged. Makes team battles interesting.
4. What is heaven?
5. For a man to get 72 virgins, he must have done something really right. For a virgin to end up in that position, she must have done something really wrong.
6. What is heaven?
7. What is heaven?
8. See answer to #3: reincarnation
9. Hell is right here on Earth. But what is heaven?
10. Shun the non-believers.
zitanos wrote:So I was having a discussion the other day with some ppl about religion and heaven etc., coming out of that I had a few unanswered questions. So I'm asking the religious folks in here to educate me if they have answers on any of these.
1. Where do babies go when they die?
If they are not chritened they turn to Duenes, if they are christened they go to Moka (heaven)
2. If heaven, then do they age in heaven, or do we all remain the same age in heaven that we were when we died?
In Heaven (Moka), we do not age, we visit venezuelan doctors who have found the fountain of youth in plastic surgery. They surgically reconstruct our sagging boobs and scrotums.
3. I understand Hindu's believe in reincarnation, how does this work?
Reincarnation is a type of evaporated milk that has been passed through the system and comes out in the form of diarrhoea.
4. Are animals allowed in heaven?
Yes, dogs and cats only, and certain syrians.
5. The 72 virgins concept. Is this true? If so, seems to be a good thing for the man. What does the woman get out of it? And for married muslims, when the man die, does he and his wife separate in heaven, considering she most likely is no longer a virgin? (if so what becomes of her)
I don't know what concept you are talking about. There are no Muslims in Moka (heaven).
6. For believers of heaven, is there 1 heaven? or 1 for each religion?
If there is only 1, does jesus, allah (pbuh), and whoever else live side by side as multiple gods in heaven?
There is only one Moka. Who is Jesus and Allah? Are those the rotweillers my neighbour on heaven (Moka) owns???
7. I know some christians believe, if you don't worship Jesus, you're not getting into heaven. What about the tribes in the amazon, or a baby who dies at birth, who never had the privilege about knowing about Jesus. What happens to them?
All you need is money to get into heaven. That baby is now a duene.
8. If you don't believe in heaven, or God... and you don't believe in hell where do you go?
You go to Lower Santa Cruz, with the rest of the poor people.
9. Can heaven exist without hell? If so, then is it possible when you die, the only place to go is heaven? If not, then Heaven needs hell to exist, hence, so does that mean believers, should be thankful that hell exists?
Heaven cannot exist without Hell (medford's gas station). Well It's either Moka, Lower Santa Cruz, or Medford's. Yes beleivers should be greatful, they need gas.
10. If hell needs to exist, for heaven to exist. Then we need "bad" people, or non-believers on earth, for believers to be-able to go to heaven.?
Bad people live in Lower Santa Cruz.
Someone once raised the question, why did God put us on earth for such a short period of time. Imagine Most of us will spend 60-80yrs on earth, some babies spend a few seconds. Considering the length of time eternity in heaven is, 60-80 years or even in the case of the baby (a few seconds) is just a drop in the barrel when we consider the length of time which constitutes eternity. Are we really here for such a short time on earth ... to go to heaven and relax for the rest of time? (if so, sounds like a steal of a deal).
NB: I am not trying to offend any religion here. If I did, please let me know, and I apologize in advance. I'm hoping those of you with more knowledge in the respective religions can help us clarify some of these questions.
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lostboys crew wrote:toyo682
^^^^^
Don't you think that an all powerful being that can transform to anything
won't like to change their appearances sometimes..either to a beast
woman or man same goes for their name. I doubt you would walk around
as a woman who calls herself David....as for any one name
who gave the creator his name was it his creator and what was his creator's
name and his creator's creator's name....hmmmmm...cause surely
something or someone must have created the creator or did he just "drop" or started with a big bang....by the way some scientists say
the earth was formed in a big bang too eh.....
Oh yeah and how come god did not mention the dinosaurs and cavemen in the bible...... he left that chapter out or perhaps was lost by some careless
imbecile....
toyo682 wrote:lostboys crew,
While I do believe that an all powerful being can transform to anything or even change their name, it is not in the nature of God to do so. The essence of the Christian faith is the God reveals himself so that through such a revelation man can reenter a relationship with him. For Christians we believe that God made that way to redemption by sending Jesus to die for us. All we have to do is believe. Where as most other religions teach that we much do good, with hopes that we do enough to enter into heaven.
Well how much is enough? 2 good deeds 3? Most people misunderstand this truth in Christianity we don't do good works to get salvation but our good works are because of salvation. Part of being born again is having to love of God in our hearts, which then causes us to love other as he loves us, hence the good works. whole different concept. I am good to others because God was first good to me, not because I want God to be good to me.
So according to your concept God would be deceitful, providing an easy way for one group, while others have to work hard to earn salvation on their own. That makes God a capricious person, changing his mind all the time, that would not be cool. How about if your parents promised to buy you a car or something when you finish secondary school if you work hard and graduate with good passes, but the week before you graduate they changed their mind and said you can have it after you finish university, that would not be cool would it. Jesus never claimed to be a way but the way. If this spiritual thing worked according to your concept, then he would have said he is a way, since being God he would have known he made other ways.
Whoa, whoa, whoa there boyo! These may be your ideas/understanding of the concept of 'Christian' salvation, but it isn't anywhere near what 'christians' believe - apart from whichever group you belong to, and that is assuming you understood what they taught you. Perhaps you should check with your teacher/pastor about what you just stated.
To put it simply, christians believe that Jesus' death made it possible for men to enter heaven IF they are found worthy. Thus good works are required. I might also point out that the desire and attempt to do good is what is required... the result of the act is something else. The idea is to create a mindset that guides one's actions.
d spike wrote:toyo682 wrote:lostboys crew,
While I do believe that an all powerful being can transform to anything or even change their name, it is not in the nature of God to do so. The essence of the Christian faith is the God reveals himself so that through such a revelation man can reenter a relationship with him. For Christians we believe that God made that way to redemption by sending Jesus to die for us. All we have to do is believe. Where as most other religions teach that we much do good, with hopes that we do enough to enter into heaven.
Well how much is enough? 2 good deeds 3? Most people misunderstand this truth in Christianity we don't do good works to get salvation but our good works are because of salvation. Part of being born again is having to love of God in our hearts, which then causes us to love other as he loves us, hence the good works. whole different concept. I am good to others because God was first good to me, not because I want God to be good to me.
So according to your concept God would be deceitful, providing an easy way for one group, while others have to work hard to earn salvation on their own. That makes God a capricious person, changing his mind all the time, that would not be cool. How about if your parents promised to buy you a car or something when you finish secondary school if you work hard and graduate with good passes, but the week before you graduate they changed their mind and said you can have it after you finish university, that would not be cool would it. Jesus never claimed to be a way but the way. If this spiritual thing worked according to your concept, then he would have said he is a way, since being God he would have known he made other ways.
Whoa, whoa, whoa there boyo! These may be your ideas/understanding of the concept of 'Christian' salvation, but it isn't anywhere near what 'christians' believe - apart from whichever group you belong to, and that is assuming you understood what they taught you. Perhaps you should check with your teacher/pastor about what you just stated.
To put it simply, christians believe that Jesus' death made it possible for men to enter heaven IF they are found worthy. Thus good works are required. I might also point out that the desire and attempt to do good is what is required... the result of the act is something else. The idea is to create a mindset that guides one's actions.
As far as "Jesus being the way", let me just re-post something I had posted elsewhere:
One of the most important statements of Jesus is "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one can come to the Father except through me."
christians hold onto this statement like a banner at a football match, waving it in the face of non-christians ("we win! we win! we win!") when it actually means something far, far different, far more all-encompassing than the seemingly literal meaning of in-the-name-of Jesus-I-going-heaven stuff (taking scripture literally ALWAYS is a path of head-butting walls and stump-toe... but that's for another time).
Be rational. Jesus ain't no road... and literally going through someone isn't particularly pleasant... so obviously, Jesus was referring to following his teachings about himself - the path he laid out for us, goes to the Father. When we try to look at who Jesus is, he keeps showing us a concept, that of love. "He who loves me, obeys my commandments", "Love one another...", "Whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me" and so forth.
Therefore, the path to God is through love. Doesn't matter what you call it, where you worship, (if you perform 'communal worship'), what name you call him by...
(Talk about discrimination! You claim he is the God of all men, yet you demand that he only be referred to by one name which came out of one culture among many?)
Do you really think that God, if he exists, bothers about what name you call him, if he loves you? I thought the whole point of monotheism is that there is only one Boss? A name only makes sense to us creatures, as it differentiates one from another. (When Moses asked his name, God put him in his place: "I am who is" - take dat in yuh waist, yuh too dam farse an outta place...)
The point of our existence here may very well be to learn to care for one another... one big, ant farm experiment to prove that love is supreme... In which case, even whether you believe in God or not is not really important - as the movie "Legion" showed, it's far more important that He believes in us... and our ability to love... to pick ourselves up from the mistakes that we make, to heal, to forgive... and to continue, striving in this reality to make the choices that we will be rewarded for in the next, and make this place a better place to live in, despite the turmoil, the earthquakes, the idiots, and the over-multiplicity of choices of underwear.
d spike wrote:...and?
Does this change something I said?
'Personal salvation' has fast become the focal point of many christians nowadays, thanks to the pushing of this concept by the new fundamentalists.
To believe in personal salvation is all well and good, but that cannot be the be-all-and-end-all of your religion... The mantra of "I am saved!" cannot be the focal point of the human relationship with the Creator - this is a very selfish viewpoint. To have a "personal relationship with God" is a good thing, but we were put here as a people, to achieve something as a people. (One reason why suicide is wrong.) Life is beautiful, but too short for an individual to achieve God's plan (if there is one) on his own. We each go through life, meeting far too many individuals, to interact fully with each... far too many problems and ills exist for any one of us to deal with - alone. We can run to a "God" for solace, but in every example of this, we are told that the answer lies within us as a people. We are "Christ" to each other - or whatever you want to call it.
We are called as a people to achieve something wonderful, over time (hence the reason for procreation) and this is what was meant for us.
The world isn't going to end in a fit of God's anger and frustration with our inability to do what's right (that would mean the Devil won and God failed, wouldn't it?) but when we succeed in doing our part in the Great Scheme of things/"God's plan".
nismotrinidappa wrote:
oho lol that wasnt meant for you lol...i just get accustomed replying to your posts nuh....i mustbe getting old like you!
i agree with you say. i am also not a fundamentalist...
i believe salvation is a ongoing thing and being a christian is a ongoing journey. some people do think that right ah gone to church or ah baptized or a born again and ah have mih vip ticket to heaven. thats wrong
its all about what you do and how you interact with your fellow man and what good work and help you offer to those in need.
d spike wrote:I still am not too sure what the OP wants to achieve by this thread. Any religion would have answers for his questions... so the core of these queries is whatever was said in that discussion he had...
Unless he was never brought up in a religion (which is possible, but unlikely) how come he has these questions all of a sudden? That must have been one heck of a conversation, boy...
toyo682 wrote:d spike,
I am a bit confused, you say that the death of Jesus makes it possible to enter heaven (be saved in Christian words) if they are found worthy. I always thought that the blood of Jesus was shed so that we can become worthy, after all it is what we christian believe washes away or sins. Just to clear it up I am not a once save always saved believer. I sorry if I gave that impression, I was not trying to outline salvation I was really trying to say God is not capricious. But since you asked,
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