Evolution VS Creation

[Snags]

I have a side question - Does science/scientist and some of the religious folk here refer to Jesus as God? When science/scientist disagree with Jesus/The bible/any other religion, are they binding that to the possibility that there is a God? Is that the basis for the statement?
I ask because I see that coming out alot.

[pandu]

pandu, everything you mentioned there could be explained properly through science.....i dont know why in this day and age, if we don't fully understand something, we just say its the work of God.....mankind would never have evolved and moved into the industrial and technological revolution if everyone had lazy attitudes like you.

I guess you shoulda replace my lecturers in mt hope when I was doing memory in the neurosciences block.


Anyway, with comprehension skills as bad as yours, it is no wonder you dont understand my point. Where did I say that we should not have technology? Technology is good. No one wants to stop science from progressing, it helps us in our lives. There is just the fact that there are some things that cannot be explained by science, no matter how hard they try. By all means, try. But if you are unable to attain the answer, do not dismiss it as false....

look at how this lil boy want to attack my comprehension skills..... jus read over my last post there padna.....u should get in the practice of doing that....

anyway, as for the formation of long term memories, that is a tricky situation with many theories floating around, but nothing proven as yet. The most recent scientific theory is that DNA methylation is the process responsible for preserving long term memories. This theory is being supported with evidence from experients with mice, as when they inhibited methylation, mice lost their long term memories.

But here wha....everything i or science cyah explain....is the work of god almighty......next time u hear a loud thunder.....calm down, is jus god ripping a fart.


Anyway, do god faring folk believe in aliens? cuz that may put a whole new spin on your religion. Suppose, we make contact and they tell us their one through religion is correct. Or better yet, they are atheist who laugh at our childesh belief in god.....did jesus ever mention E.T.?

So in the first post you say EVERYTHING I mentioned could be fully explained by science. Correct?


Then in your next post when you talking about memory formation, you use the phrase 'many theories floating about'. Do you even know what a theory is? It is not a law/fact. Regardless of what they do in mice, it doesnt always transfer over to humans accurately.



As for your part with ETs, yes I do believe in them. There are descriptions of other celestials which people have seen and confirmed the description. Especially in the puranas. Even if you just use logic, then with such a big universe, there must be life elsewhere.



The attack on your comprehension stems from the fact that you dont seem to understand that I am not attacking science. I mean, small children could read my post and get that, but I guessing a big man(woman?) like you cant get the gist.

Let me put it differently. God is beyond comprehension by intellect. Science is a tool of the intellect. If God could be comprehended by mere human intellect, then He wouldnt be God.

[kes_vtec]

Not to mention, what kind of God will prefer to save a rapist/murderer/pedophile who repented and accepted jesus over a native tribesperson who lived a life in sync with nature, but never heard of jesus.

1) every human KNOWS right from wrong
2)killing is no different from telling a lie (you are no better that worst person you can think for, in the eyes of god as he love us all the same) once you understand that it is simple
3) two groups: heard of jesus and have not
have not; judged by morals

[pandu]

^^^ Boy you wouldnt believe how hard simple things like that is for people to understand on 2nr....

[MG Man]

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;
Do not have any other gods before me.

[Admins please lock thread now]

My god has eight arms and slap your god silly

[996vtwin]

U hindu, lol , At least my God aint a monkey

[Monk BANzai]

this should end the discussion

Science vs. God

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist
professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his
new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment.

"Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can
cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could.
Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't, does
he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to
Jesus to heal him How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from
a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student : "From...God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in
this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created everything,
then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle
that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: "Is there
sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they
exist in this world?"

The student: "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question.
"Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks
away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

"Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus
Christ, son?"

The student's voice is confident: "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him"

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your
Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for
that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science has
with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his
own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

"You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have
anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is
no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees.
Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is
only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold.
Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not
the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding
like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it isn't
darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light,
flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and
it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the
word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be
a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start
with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can you
explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can
measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and
magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To
view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death
cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life,
just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from
a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes,
of course I do"

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where
the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot
even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching
your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has
subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, let me
give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has
ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the
professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one appears
to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical,
stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with
all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we
trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face
unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess you'll
have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in
the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does
not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just
like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence
of God.

God did not create evil.. Evil is the result of what happens when man does
not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes
when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

[Monk BANzai]

^^ shucks...

[Raziel]

this should end the discussion

Science vs. God

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist
professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his
new students to stand.

.......

No it doesn't Ras .. it's funny/whitty but as with most religous arguements full of holes ... this was posted on the forum before and i went through it to demonstrate all the issues.

Why can't people who believe ... except that it is just that, belief/faith/etc, there is no proof of god/jesus/Allah/Jah/etc ...

And to people who don't understand, there is a big difference between a theory and making sheit up.

[Monk BANzai]

[Monk BANzai]

^^ boy ...all this talk calls for a rounds of Eggnog we!!

BTW Ras...find that original ched..ah wah pick at your "pickings"...

[996vtwin]

ok, all you non believer , what the hell you celebrating Xmas for? Like allyuh forget what Christmas celebrates ?? I doh light no dia fopr Divali!

[996vtwin]

haha, hypocrite.

[996vtwin]

just remember to say happy holidays, Christmas don't exist remember? like I said pick a side!

[.:PROZAC:..]

^^ lol..

Merry Christmas Everybody.. No Apologies.

[Smokey]

BANzai Rastafarai, that little article does nothing for this debate....it simply states that it is impossible to denounce 'faith'.......which by its nature is not empiracal.......if my faith and belief is that we were created by the underpants gnomes only a mere 200 years ago, there is nothing you show me that would disprove my belief, no matter how rediculus it is.....

The attack on your comprehension stems from the fact that you dont seem to understand that I am not attacking science. I mean, small children could read my post and get that, but I guessing a big man(woman?) like you cant get the gist.

Let me put it differently. God is beyond comprehension by intellect. Science is a tool of the intellect. If God could be comprehended by mere human intellect, then He wouldnt be God.

Hoss, i never misunderstood u, u clearly misinterpreted my response....that is where my attack came from.....anyway its clear that you lack a science backgroud as you don't seem to understand what a theory is or means...

Life & Universe is soooo much more complicated than what religion forces you to believe........and it is that stringent belief that has people afriad of science and living in fairy tale land of angels, demons, jesus & god.

I actually admire christians who have an open interpretation to the bible and have liberal viewpoints......much more intelligent way to retain your faith and not be a religious retard.

i know why people believe in god, the way everything in the universe seems so perfect (for us on earth too), it seems it simply must have come from some super intelligent creator.

But think about that....if you believe god created the world....then there must had nothing before he created that......so what did God do before that? how and where did he exisit? in the supernatural world?.....that must be a world too then?.....and if god spent an eternity....designing the universe etc....then why create it so big? do you realize the earth compare to universe is equivilent in size to an atom to the earth (or a lot more).......hope u begin to realize how absurd the religious viewpoint is.

i dont hav the answers....no one does.....however it's not the religious fairy tale 'creatist' storey you all so firmly believe....open you minds for once.

[.:PROZAC:..]

I watched this debate grow to 10 pages and have only now decided to open it. Why? because no one can present any new evidence and proof to support their argument. You won't convince anyone of anythign here and by shouting and discrediting you only make more noise.

It's jsut a sad truth to think your life , the summary of your existence is your body and nothign more. when you die, that's it for you? Doesn't that leave you worried enough to open your mind and heart to the heavens and ask can this be it?
The same God that created me is the god of DNA, science and the Human Genome.
I'm glad and happy I was wonderfully made and my life is more than this and with my last breath , there is another journey.

[Monk BANzai]

BANzai Rastafarai, that little article does nothing for this debate....it simply states that it is impossible to denounce 'faith'.......which by its nature is not empiracal.......if my faith and belief is that we were created by the underpants gnomes only a mere 200 years ago, there is nothing you show me that would disprove my belief, no matter how rediculus it is.....

The attack on your comprehension stems from the fact that you dont seem to understand that I am not attacking science. I mean, small children could read my post and get that, but I guessing a big man(woman?) like you cant get the gist.

Let me put it differently. God is beyond comprehension by intellect. Science is a tool of the intellect. If God could be comprehended by mere human intellect, then He wouldnt be God.

Hoss, i never misunderstood u, u clearly misinterpreted my response....that is where my attack came from.....anyway its clear that you lack a science backgroud as you don't seem to understand what a theory is or means...

Life & Universe is soooo much more complicated than what religion forces you to believe........and it is that stringent belief that has people afriad of science and living in fairy tale land of angels, demons, jesus & god.

I actually admire christians who have an open interpretation to the bible and have liberal viewpoints......much more intelligent way to retain your faith and not be a religious retard.

i know why people believe in god, the way everything in the universe seems so perfect (for us on earth too), it seems it simply must have come from some super intelligent creator.

But think about that....if you believe god created the world....then there must had nothing before he created that......so what did God do before that? how and where did he exisit? in the supernatural world?.....that must be a world too then?.....and if god spent an eternity....designing the universe etc....then why create it so big? do you realize the earth compare to universe is equivilent in size to an atom to the earth (or a lot more).......hope u begin to realize how absurd the religious viewpoint is.

i dont hav the answers....no one does.....however it's not the religious fairy tale 'creatist' storey you all so firmly believe....open you minds for once.

but really...who cares?... i dont care that you dont believe in God..really...i cudnt give a rats ass....i believe in God...and you dont care that i do do you?....so fine... i love to see the Aethists disproves God's existence, and by the same token it tickles me that God fearing ppl trying to "convert" yall....i say leave yall asses alone...or do like me and MG MAN..poke fun at it....we all grown ass ppl...not kids..i dont have to CONVINCe to you to know that God exists....if thais your stance..then fine...is like Vtec..either you fele it or you dont....lol

The religious view point is not absurd...its simply a view point. But, of course we all have axes to grind..so we do.....its so fackin funny i have to pull out meh inhaler and take a puff b4 reading you ppls entries....oh well..

as for that "likkle" story up there?..i find i immensely funny...in fact..imma gonna scroll back up and read it again......

(shrugs)

[Smokey]

BANzai Rastafarai, well good for you....agree to disagree....i aint trying to convince anyone really.....i just trying to make people realize that tings aint black and white and there's a whole sheit load of stuff waiting to be understood and discovered.....many people rather hide with their faith....maybe that comforts them...who knows......dont get so worked up.....its not like i damning you to hell cuz i dont believe what you believe.

[.:PROZAC:..]

that tings aint black and white and there's a whole sheit load of stuff waiting to be understood and discovered.....

I believe the bible says this exactly... though we see things dimly as looking through a glass, in the end all things will be revealed.

[pandu]

Smokey, I assume you never read any puranas, or the gita, or even anything that the great sages spoke of, like sage Yagnavalka. All what you said about God before there was a universe is explained in those books.


And as for theories, many of them were ridiculous up to 50 years ago. After all, a theory is a claim that needs to be justified.

Just for the record, I do have a science background. Since you seem to think otherwise, what qualifications do you have?

[MG Man]

U hindu, lol , At least my God aint a monkey

Doh mess wid ma monkey.........he can pick up a mountain and drop it onna your crib yo
actually I'm not, but my father is. My mother is muslim and my wife is presbyterian......I personally don't give a sh!t
But if I had to something as retarded and fanciful as religion at least hinduism is entertaining........Jesus was just a wandering vagrant who became the political tool of a Roman emperor..........it could have just as been Apolonious Christ if the wind blew the bullsh!t in another direction

[MG Man]

Jesus is the answer

[.:PROZAC:..]

Seeing people believe in creation, god must have had a creator,

Pios, there in lies the flaw in your reasonin. Man, the univers and everything in it has a begining. since you don't believe in the other related articles of faith then you might want to addd this to your list.