The Tobago Self-Government Bill, 2020...

[sMASH]

https://www.facebook.com/stephan.reis.1 ... 0094539028

[Habit7]

https://www.facebook.com/stephan.reis.18/videos/207990094539028

This exemplifies this entire argument.

A minority of ppl in Tobago want independence. PDP is pushing naive Farley as calling for autonomy, but the real boss Duke is pushing independence. We had over a decade of organising a Tobago autonomy bill and now it is being presented the PDP must say it not what they want because they essentially want independence.

UNC ppl could care less. They don't campaign in Tobago and they just lost elections by 2 seats. If Tobago goes independent that would lessen the Afro population and gives them a better chance as PNM won't have 2 seats. That is not a conspiracy, Devant Maharaj said so. http://www.southasianoutlook.com/issues ... b0409.html

But if you think you need to lose weight by chopping off your leg it is just as foolish as giving Tobago independence. It will reduce our exclusive economic zone even while we are currently appealing to UN for more space closer to Guyana where there is a trend of oil discoveries. It will reduce our GDP, it will worsen our credit rating, it will worsen our diversification options, etc. Let Watson Duke win elections first before he can actually say what Tobago wants. And it seems that UNC believes that if they can't have the country, nobody can.

[sMASH]

^^carry it to referendum


from my history, tobago was not part of trinidad, was just stapled together for administration. if tobagonians want to stay or to go is up to them.

but, is not for PNM here to chat with PNM there to say what is best for tobago.

reduction in economic zones and and mineral rights and all that is par the course of being fair. but, PNM isnot about fairness, its about power and subjugation and stealing people's assets.

if pnm want to conserve assets, take back the pitch lake and and the Port of PoS and conserve that.


jess like how trini injun dont like tobago creole, same way tobago creole dont like trini injun. so why keep them bounded.
y? pnm has two more seats. pnm doesnt want whats best for tobago, it jsut wants to keep control to sell off every ting to xi jingping.

[zoom rader]

^^carry it to referendum


from my history, tobago was not part of trinidad, was just stapled together for administration. if tobagonians want to stay or to go is up to them.

but, is not for PNM here to chat with PNM there to say what is best for tobago.

reduction in economic zones and and mineral rights and all that is par the course of being fair. but, PNM isnot about fairness, its about power and subjugation and stealing people's assets.

if pnm want to conserve assets, take back the pitch lake and and the Port of PoS and conserve that.


jess like how trini injun dont like tobago creole, same way tobago creole dont like trini injun. so why keep them bounded.
y? pnm has two more seats. pnm doesnt want whats best for tobago, it jsut wants to keep control to sell off every ting to xi jingping.

The red government will never have a referendum . They are 5hit scared of losing bago

The red government did a good job by pumping fear in bago people about Indians.

It's not UNC or Indians that have bago as chamber maids and waiters .

[paid_influencer]

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via PEA

[Habit7]

^^carry it to referendum


from my history, tobago was not part of trinidad, was just stapled together for administration. if tobagonians want to stay or to go is up to them.

but, is not for PNM here to chat with PNM there to say what is best for tobago.

reduction in economic zones and and mineral rights and all that is par the course of being fair. but, PNM isnot about fairness, its about power and subjugation and stealing people's assets.

if pnm want to conserve assets, take back the pitch lake and and the Port of PoS and conserve that.


jess like how trini injun dont like tobago creole, same way tobago creole dont like trini injun. so why keep them bounded.
y? pnm has two more seats. pnm doesnt want whats best for tobago, it jsut wants to keep control to sell off every ting to xi jingping.

And your view represents the uninformed place where many in the populace are, so you can only reduce it to things you are more familiar with like race and nonsense talk.

Nobody said Tobago was/is a part of Trinidad. We are an archipelagic state of Trinidad and Tobago. Tobagonians are asking for more autonomy, Duke is demanding independence. This is not about "power and subjugation and stealing people's assets" Tobago is our asset just like anywhere else in this country. Tobago voted for PNM in the general elections. PNM cannot steal from what it was democratically given to administer.

"Trini injun dont like tobago creole, same way tobago creole dont like trini injun" that might be true for you but the two Indo-Trini PMs of this country were supported by Tobago. This is just the divisive talk that ppl like you want to push in Tobago and then push in Trinidad.

We do not have laws governing referendums and even when we have free and fair elections UNC doubts the results and lose terribly in the courts because there is no evidence that they weren't free and fair. PNM won the majority at the general elections in Tobago and at the THA level. Duke and the others that are clamouring are not the majority voice of Tobago.

[The_Honourable]

A minority? is 6-6 in the THA lol... if it was 12-0 or 11-1 you can make the minority argument.

When Duke/Augustine/PDP means Independence, they mean economic, judicial and legislative independence.

The problem PDP made early in the game and continue to do so is that they did not state the difference between Independence and Secession. The T&T public sees secession and independence as the same due to our colonial past, and this gave pnm supporters the opportunity to spin.

With approx 70% of the tobago population employed by the THA, low productivity and dependent on Trinidad for funds, I don't see why they should not be given economic, judicial and legislative decision making.

[sMASH]

i understand the economic disadvantage. same thing went on with the crown when they gave up tnt with signficant oil reserves and the regional refinery. but its not about money or power, its about being fair to the people. and that may result in a loss.

pnm want to give 2 more billion, to keep salaries high in THA to keep the votes.
THA is just like cepep, make wuk for votes.


again i say, put it to referendum

[Habit7]

A minority? is 6-6 in the THA lol... if it was 12-0 or 11-1 you can make the minority argument.

When Duke/Augustine/PDP means Independence, they mean economic, judicial and legislative independence.

The problem PDP made early in the game and continue to do so is that they did not state the difference between Independence and Secession. The T&T public sees secession and independence as the same due to our colonial past, and this gave pnm supporters the opportunity to spin.

With approx 70% of the tobago population employed by the THA, low productivity and dependent on Trinidad for funds, I don't see why they should not be given economic, judicial and legislative decision making.

Yes a minority. 6-6 in the Assembly but PNM had the popular vote. Just like Brexit Yes had the popular vote.

You don't need to spin Watson Duke for me, if you want to play ignorant I will let him say it for himself


https://youtu.be/-qiLwXfDyPU
Farley is the polished face of Autonomy, Duke is the real call for Independence.

"THA’s operations accounted for around 55% of the people employed on the island, according to the CSO." https://oxfordbusinessgroup.com/overvie ... ity-growth

Try dem spin on smash and ZR, not me.

[Habit7]

i understand the economic disadvantage. same thing went on with the crown when they gave up tnt with signficant oil reserves and the regional refinery. but its not about money or power, its about being fair to the people. and that may result in a loss.

pnm want to give 2 more billion, to keep salaries high in THA to keep the votes.
THA is just like cepep, make wuk for votes.


again i say, put it to referendum

The crown wasn't giving up anything. The UK parliament realised one of the reasons Germany nearly took over their country was because they had military protecting colonies all over the world and not enough to protect at home. So rather than deal with potential uprisings and the cost to rebuild a war-torn UK they started preparing colonies to go on their own. Plus they knew most of our oil was being commercialized by their companies including the refinery. Plus at that time our quantities were nothing so great, it pails in comparison to what the UK has in North Sea.

Fuss you don't know it is not giving Tobago $2B more. Tobago must receive a minimum of 4.03% of the national budget because it reflects their portion of our entire population 4.6%. Tobagonians want that raised to 8%. The govt is compromising it to be 6.8%. But what your UNC wants is for us to raise it 8% because apparently "PNM is not listening to Tobago."

Why UNC didn't put Pt Fortin Hway to a referendum?

[The_Honourable]

A minority? is 6-6 in the THA lol... if it was 12-0 or 11-1 you can make the minority argument.

When Duke/Augustine/PDP means Independence, they mean economic, judicial and legislative independence.

The problem PDP made early in the game and continue to do so is that they did not state the difference between Independence and Secession. The T&T public sees secession and independence as the same due to our colonial past, and this gave pnm supporters the opportunity to spin.

With approx 70% of the tobago population employed by the THA, low productivity and dependent on Trinidad for funds, I don't see why they should not be given economic, judicial and legislative decision making.

Yes a minority. 6-6 in the Assembly but PNM had the popular vote. Just like Brexit Yes had the popular vote.

You don't need to spin Watson Duke for me, if you want to play ignorant I will let him say it for himself


https://youtu.be/-qiLwXfDyPU
Farley is the polished face of Autonomy, Duke is the real call for Independence.

"THA’s operations accounted for around 55% of the people employed on the island, according to the CSO." https://oxfordbusinessgroup.com/overvie ... ity-growth

Try dem spin on smash and ZR, not me.

Popular vote does not mean jack in our political system, only loosers make that argument.

The devant source a dead link

Re: Oxford - good source but it's over six years old. 55% as of the last quarter of 2015.

Habit7 we all know that you are the tuner spin doctor for the pnm... calm down.

[mero]

.
jess like how trini injun dont like tobago creole, same way tobago creole dont like trini injun. so why keep them bounded.

Allyuh does be making some dread statements normal normal in here boy

[bluefete]

.
jess like how trini injun dont like tobago creole, same way tobago creole dont like trini injun. so why keep them bounded.

Allyuh does be making some dread statements normal normal in here boy

When Sandy made the Calcutta ship argument, Sat Maharaj went on an all out war to stop people from going Tobago on holiday.

[Habit7]

Popular vote does not mean jack in our political system, only loosers make that argument.

The devant source a dead link

Re: Oxford - good source but it's over six years old. 55% as of the last quarter of 2015.

Habit7 we all know that you are the tuner spin doctor for the pnm... calm down.

Well don't say you are the "voice of Tobago" when the majority of Tobago doesn't support you.

Here is another link http://trinituner.com/v4/forums/viewtop ... 3#p6793533

You are obviously trying to water down what Duke is saying but he said it in the interview with Reis and in the video I shared. He wants succession and independence. Autonomy talk for him is just a cover.

[sMASH]

.
jess like how trini injun dont like tobago creole, same way tobago creole dont like trini injun. so why keep them bounded.

Allyuh does be making some dread statements normal normal in here boy

for the most part, that isnt true. even ramsaran peanut punch girl and dem does be all around bago like normal. but some people like to push that cause it helps bolster votes for pnm across there. " ya hadda vote pnm cause u cant let unc win". dat time, unc dont compete in tobago, is pdp. lol.

unc cant really get a candidate across tobago, but they not gonna pretend to put, cause tobago should be led by tobagonians.

again, tobago should decide how and how much autonomy they want and not accept what pnm willing to bribe them with, with that 2bn extra

2bn for two seats,,,, when farris renting down the treasury. lol.

[The_Honourable]

Popular vote does not mean jack in our political system, only loosers make that argument.

The devant source a dead link

Re: Oxford - good source but it's over six years old. 55% as of the last quarter of 2015.

Habit7 we all know that you are the tuner spin doctor for the pnm... calm down.

Well don't say you are the "voice of Tobago" when the majority of Tobago doesn't support you.

Here is another link http://trinituner.com/v4/forums/viewtop ... 3#p6793533

You are obviously trying to water down what Duke is saying but he said it in the interview with Reis and in the video I shared. He wants succession and independence. Autonomy talk for him is just a cover.

I watched the Reis-Duke interview also... you watched it through a pnm filter.

PDP wants economic, judicial and legislative independence from Trinidad. They also want the right to secede so that if Tobago wants to make that decision 10 years or 100 years from now, they would be able to do so. I believe that is fair. Your spin is that Duke wants secession right now, and I get it... it's politics.

Re: Devant. Careful, nowhere in devant's article he stated that 2 seats means a better chance of unc winning. However since he is suspected to have supremacist views, I would not be surprised that your opinion is correct.

[Habit7]

I watched the Reis-Duke interview also... you watched it through a pnm filter.

PDP wants economic, judicial and legislative independence from Trinidad. They also want the right to secede so that if Tobago wants to make that decision 10 years or 100 years from now, they would be able to do so. I believe that is fair. Your spin is that Duke wants secession right now, and I get it... it's politics.

Good.

And all that you rightfully understand there is not autonomy, that is succession and independence. It totally contradicts your attempt to water it down. You want to call it a "PNM filter" but it is the truth that you are trying to distort and trying to make it seem not like what it actually is. This is not the majority desire of Tobagonians and the results will affect the lives of Trinidadians as well.

[sMASH]

^^u see that RIGHT to secede, if they have that, then u know they know they getting respect. as of this week, pnm went up in parliament and rant and cry how is together forever and unc want to split them, and duke want to leave and go.

if pnm really valued tobago more than two seats, they would entrust them that legal right.

yes, habbit7.xxx i do understand we will be economically weaker, but thats the chance to take and the price to pay, when u respect people's right to be independent.

[Habit7]

^^u see that RIGHT to secede, if they have that, then u know they know they getting respect. as of this week, pnm went up in parliament and rant and cry how is together forever and unc want to split them, and duke want to leave and go.

if pnm really valued tobago more than two seats, they would entrust them that legal right.

yes, habbit7.xxx i do understand we will be economically weaker, but thats the chance to take and the price to pay, when u respect people's right to be independent.

But you are not respecting their right to self-determination. They don't want to secede. The consultations showed they want autonomy, not independence. You and the UNC want them to secede so that they can leave with the two seats you already don't care for. So you magnifying the voice of a minority who wants to secede to ignore the voice of a majority who wants to stay

No stable country can have ppl who decide to pick up and leave on their own desire. The Dems right now wants to make Puerto Rico and Washington DC a state to strengthen their majority. Texas and other states have a growing secession movement. But they all require all of Congress to agree which is a near impossibility. Tobago is not a colony of T&T, they are T&T.

In like manner, you cannot have one group in Toco, Gasper Grande, Icacos, Mayaro, wherever saying this land is our own and we want to take it and leave with it. It is not yours to go with. We all have to agree that you can leave with what belongs to us. And if some stupid UNC ppl want to give away nearly half our EEZ because THA gets $2B, do that with the UNC who after 30years is still renting. We will lose much more now and in the future, than what you perceive we will save if Tobago goes.

Just take allyuh loss like a man, don't mash up the country because your party can win.

[sMASH]

PNM says what pnm thinks what tobago wants. that consultations was with select pnm supporters.

[The_Honourable]

I watched the Reis-Duke interview also... you watched it through a pnm filter.

PDP wants economic, judicial and legislative independence from Trinidad. They also want the right to secede so that if Tobago wants to make that decision 10 years or 100 years from now, they would be able to do so. I believe that is fair. Your spin is that Duke wants secession right now, and I get it... it's politics.

Good.

And all that you rightfully understand there is not autonomy, that is succession and independence. It totally contradicts your attempt to water it down. You want to call it a "PNM filter" but it is the truth that you are trying to distort and trying to make it seem not like what it actually is. This is not the majority desire of Tobagonians and the results will affect the lives of Trinidadians as well.

The one who spins and distorts to form a pro-pnm narrative accusing others of distortion? Habit it's Friday... please...

Autonomy and Independence are the same and can be used interchangeably. Secede is different.

https://www.lexico.com/synonyms/autonomy

https://www.lexico.com/definition/secede

Again, the PDP is asking that Tobago have economic, judicial and legislative independence (autonomy) with the right to secede.

There is no attempt to water down or contradiction. As usual it's you as a pro-pnm just simply being wrong and strong.

Have a read:

PDP wants economic independence for Tobago



Tobago House of Assembly Minority Leader Watson Duke says his party plans to advance a campaign for Tobago’s legislative, economic and judicial independence.

He said Tobago is a part of the unitary state of Trinidad and Tobago but decisions are being made for the island that were not in keeping with the island’s cultural identity.

Speaking at the Minority Council’s media briefing on Wednesday, Duke said Tobago has a different history from Trinidad and it must be recognised. He said there must be equality between both islands and Tobago should be allowed to make its own laws.

“The House of Assembly has no power in it. Hence in my years there, all we have passed is motions like little children, motioning the teacher to go and take a pee, that’s all they do, motion, motion, because it is set out in the House of Assembly Act.

“If a law is to be made the law has to go to Trinidad in the Parliament but before it gets to the Parliament it must go to the Executive in Trinidad, they will look at it and they will now do green paper, white paper et cetera, then send it to the Parliament to be discussed in the Lower House, then the Upper House and then it goes to the President.

“Why is it so difficult to make a law for Tobago, why is it that Trinidad keep making laws that does not fit us.”

Duke said Tobago should also be allowed economic independence with the opportunity to borrow money from financial institutions for projects on the island. He also said Tobago should and have its own auditor general.

“Tobago must govern its own affairs, so we are saying we want economic independence. We must be able to come up with an economic plan and borrow money on the open market as Trinidad will do,” he said.

“Nobody could tell Grenada how much money to borrow, nobody can tell Barbados how much money to borrow, nobody can tell St Vincent how much money to borrow and certainly we in Tobago cannot tell Trinidad how much money to borrow, all of those decisions are made independent of any country or any advice from any country within the Caribbean because they have their own rules and plan their own economic system.”

He said it was time for Tobago’s independence but explained that it was different from secession. He also called for Tobago to have an independent judiciary, with prisoners who commit crimes on the island being allowed to serve their sentences at the Tobago prison.

Source: https://www.guardian.co.tt/article/pdp- ... f162d377c8

[Habit7]

I dont know who put you as Watson Duke's publicist, but he is very clear without your attempts of clarifications. This is not pro-PNM, or a PNM filter. This is the man's words yesterday!

PDP: Autonomy insufficient, Tobago must keep options open
STEPHON NICHOLAS YESTERDAY

Progressive Democratic Patriots (PDP) political leader Watson Duke is adamant that Tobagonians want more than internal self governance. In a Facebook live on Wednesday, Duke said Tobagonians – if they so desire – should be given the opportunity to become fully independent of Trinidad.

The parliamentary debate on the Constitution Amendment Bill and Tobago Island Government Bill, intended to give Tobago greater autonomy, ended on Tuesday, but a vote was not taken.

Duke, who previously described the bill as a "vacant paper" unable to give Tobagonians the self-determination they aspire to, continued his criticism of the Joint Select Committee's report to Parliament.

"This is a bitter battle and I will stand against anybody, inside my party or outside, who dare to say Tobago only wants internal self government – wrong.

"Tobago wants the right to freely choose its political status without any external interference," he said.

"Political status means we could have internal self government, if we want to.

"It means if we don't want that we could change we mind and have an association (with Trinidad), if we want to.

"If we don't want internal self government nor an association, we could go fully independent, if we want to.

"That is what we want and anybody in my party or outside who say different, I will challenge them.

"That is what I want for Tobago. Tobagonians must speak and we must make up our minds about what we want."

Although the autonomy bill was born out of countless consultations in Tobago, Duke insisted that it still does not reflect the wishes of its people in its present form.

"The man with the sore foot in Tobago is way more important than the man with the doctorate that lives in Maraval in Trinidad. You know why? Because it is ah Tobago issue and the people of Tobago count. Everybody has a voice. This must involve a full discussion."

In Parliament on Tuesday, the Prime Minister said Duke, at the party's 2020 general election campaign launch, had advocated for secession.

Quoting from Duke's speech at Magdalena hotel, Dr Rowley said the PDP leader had called for Tobago's own judicial system, own High Court, own immigration control, own air traffic control and own prime minister."

Rowley said, "That is not the position of the PNM and I know that is not position of the people of Tobago...Who in Tobago is Watson Duke talking for with that?

"Madam Speaker, if you not sharing immigration control aren't you an independent country, separate and apart from?"

Rowley said Duke's flirtation with the idea of secession will find its way into the heart of the UNC who, if in government, would grant the wish.

In an interview with Newsday on Wednesday, PDP deputy leader Dr Faith BYisrael said Tobago must be given the right to keep its options open.

"Yes, I think that is the point of autonomy – to choose whatever you wish. It is up to the people on the ground to make the choice for themselves.

"Whatever Tobago wants to do – whether it is to stay with Trinidad, or have a federal government, or an association like how the Eastern Caribbean has same currency but are separate countries, or you want to go on your own, which is a choice Tobagonians have. Not saying we want one or the other or want to leave now, but that choice should be a choice we can make."

BYisrael lamented the two days of debate in Parliament between the PNM and the UNC.

"It is a sad showing of the kind of colonialism Tobago has had to deal with for quite some time. You have two very Trinidad-based parties having full discussion about what is right for Tobago without the input of the people of Tobago who have to live with the consequences of their decision."

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/07/01/pdp-au ... ions-open/

[CB Style]

It good for Tobago. Let dem suffer more years of LFD RFD PNM.
Tight Shirt Arm Wrestler bristling at not being able to make this one a simple majority vote

Yeah let them suffer with 3 new ferries, 2 new hospitals, well kept schools, the smoothest roads in the nation and a new airport starting next week. PNM wicked too bad to Tobago.

Well if this is what allyuh have to boast about in the year 2021, well give yuhself a pat on the shoulder. Good Job Boys!!!!

[CB Style]

UNC is not interested in doing the people’s business but putting roadblocks in the way of public policy.

Why allyuh PNMites making this whole thing about UNC? Ent allyuh is the same people like to scare the Tobagonians just by mentioning UNC and by extension Indians. When it come to elections in Tobago what is the antics? The Calcutta Ship coming. The last election, Oreo try to convince the people that PDP is a branch of the UNC. The man even went as far as telling the slaves there that he will never forgive them if he vote for the other side. Allyuh shameless boi

[The_Honourable]

I dont know who put you as Watson Duke's publicist, but he is very clear without your attempts of clarifications. This is not pro-PNM, or a PNM filter. This is the man's words yesterday!

PDP: Autonomy insufficient, Tobago must keep options open
STEPHON NICHOLAS YESTERDAY

Progressive Democratic Patriots (PDP) political leader Watson Duke is adamant that Tobagonians want more than internal self governance. In a Facebook live on Wednesday, Duke said Tobagonians – if they so desire – should be given the opportunity to become fully independent of Trinidad.

The parliamentary debate on the Constitution Amendment Bill and Tobago Island Government Bill, intended to give Tobago greater autonomy, ended on Tuesday, but a vote was not taken.

Duke, who previously described the bill as a "vacant paper" unable to give Tobagonians the self-determination they aspire to, continued his criticism of the Joint Select Committee's report to Parliament.

"This is a bitter battle and I will stand against anybody, inside my party or outside, who dare to say Tobago only wants internal self government – wrong.

"Tobago wants the right to freely choose its political status without any external interference," he said.

"Political status means we could have internal self government, if we want to.

"It means if we don't want that we could change we mind and have an association (with Trinidad), if we want to.

"If we don't want internal self government nor an association, we could go fully independent, if we want to.

"That is what we want and anybody in my party or outside who say different, I will challenge them.

"That is what I want for Tobago. Tobagonians must speak and we must make up our minds about what we want."

Although the autonomy bill was born out of countless consultations in Tobago, Duke insisted that it still does not reflect the wishes of its people in its present form.

"The man with the sore foot in Tobago is way more important than the man with the doctorate that lives in Maraval in Trinidad. You know why? Because it is ah Tobago issue and the people of Tobago count. Everybody has a voice. This must involve a full discussion."

In Parliament on Tuesday, the Prime Minister said Duke, at the party's 2020 general election campaign launch, had advocated for secession.

Quoting from Duke's speech at Magdalena hotel, Dr Rowley said the PDP leader had called for Tobago's own judicial system, own High Court, own immigration control, own air traffic control and own prime minister."

Rowley said, "That is not the position of the PNM and I know that is not position of the people of Tobago...Who in Tobago is Watson Duke talking for with that?

"Madam Speaker, if you not sharing immigration control aren't you an independent country, separate and apart from?"

Rowley said Duke's flirtation with the idea of secession will find its way into the heart of the UNC who, if in government, would grant the wish.

In an interview with Newsday on Wednesday, PDP deputy leader Dr Faith BYisrael said Tobago must be given the right to keep its options open.

"Yes, I think that is the point of autonomy – to choose whatever you wish. It is up to the people on the ground to make the choice for themselves.

"Whatever Tobago wants to do – whether it is to stay with Trinidad, or have a federal government, or an association like how the Eastern Caribbean has same currency but are separate countries, or you want to go on your own, which is a choice Tobagonians have. Not saying we want one or the other or want to leave now, but that choice should be a choice we can make."

BYisrael lamented the two days of debate in Parliament between the PNM and the UNC.

"It is a sad showing of the kind of colonialism Tobago has had to deal with for quite some time. You have two very Trinidad-based parties having full discussion about what is right for Tobago without the input of the people of Tobago who have to live with the consequences of their decision."

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/07/01/pdp-au ... ions-open/

Highlighted the parts in bold so you can finally figure it out.

Article proves my point that the PDP not only wants autonomy/independence but also the option/choice to secede. If included in the bill, passed and proclaimed, Tobagonians would have that choice at anytime in the future to secede. PDP is not asking right now to secede from Trinidad which you and the pnm are spinning at the moment.

It's not hard to understand, but thanks for proving my point Habit7

[zoom rader]

UNC is not interested in doing the people’s business but putting roadblocks in the way of public policy.

Why allyuh PNMites making this whole thing about UNC? Ent allyuh is the same people like to scare the Tobagonians just by mentioning UNC and by extension Indians. When it come to elections in Tobago what is the antics? The Calcutta Ship coming. The last election, Oreo try to convince the people that PDP is a branch of the UNC. The man even went as far as telling the slaves there that he will never forgive them if he vote for the other side. Allyuh shameless boi

Nah hoss

Joe is one of those tuners that gives a balanced opinion. Hes not a sheep like dirty habitarse 7 , Redman or eliteauto-tuntun. At times I don't agree with him but he's far better than the rest of idiots on tuner.

[sMASH]

if they dont get autonomy is jess 2bn more to keep two seats.

and i say, go to referendum. but pnm fraid dat bad bad!!

[Habit7]

I dont know who put you as Watson Duke's publicist, but he is very clear without your attempts of clarifications. This is not pro-PNM, or a PNM filter. This is the man's words yesterday!

PDP: Autonomy insufficient, Tobago must keep options open
STEPHON NICHOLAS YESTERDAY

Progressive Democratic Patriots (PDP) political leader Watson Duke is adamant that Tobagonians want more than internal self governance. In a Facebook live on Wednesday, Duke said Tobagonians – if they so desire – should be given the opportunity to become fully independent of Trinidad.

The parliamentary debate on the Constitution Amendment Bill and Tobago Island Government Bill, intended to give Tobago greater autonomy, ended on Tuesday, but a vote was not taken.

Duke, who previously described the bill as a "vacant paper" unable to give Tobagonians the self-determination they aspire to, continued his criticism of the Joint Select Committee's report to Parliament.

"This is a bitter battle and I will stand against anybody, inside my party or outside, who dare to say Tobago only wants internal self government – wrong.

"Tobago wants the right to freely choose its political status without any external interference," he said.

"Political status means we could have internal self government, if we want to.

"It means if we don't want that we could change we mind and have an association (with Trinidad), if we want to.

"If we don't want internal self government nor an association, we could go fully independent, if we want to.

"That is what we want and anybody in my party or outside who say different, I will challenge them.

"That is what I want for Tobago. Tobagonians must speak and we must make up our minds about what we want."

Although the autonomy bill was born out of countless consultations in Tobago, Duke insisted that it still does not reflect the wishes of its people in its present form.

"The man with the sore foot in Tobago is way more important than the man with the doctorate that lives in Maraval in Trinidad. You know why? Because it is ah Tobago issue and the people of Tobago count. Everybody has a voice. This must involve a full discussion."

In Parliament on Tuesday, the Prime Minister said Duke, at the party's 2020 general election campaign launch, had advocated for secession.

Quoting from Duke's speech at Magdalena hotel, Dr Rowley said the PDP leader had called for Tobago's own judicial system, own High Court, own immigration control, own air traffic control and own prime minister."

Rowley said, "That is not the position of the PNM and I know that is not position of the people of Tobago...Who in Tobago is Watson Duke talking for with that?

"Madam Speaker, if you not sharing immigration control aren't you an independent country, separate and apart from?"

Rowley said Duke's flirtation with the idea of secession will find its way into the heart of the UNC who, if in government, would grant the wish.

In an interview with Newsday on Wednesday, PDP deputy leader Dr Faith BYisrael said Tobago must be given the right to keep its options open.

"Yes, I think that is the point of autonomy – to choose whatever you wish. It is up to the people on the ground to make the choice for themselves.

"Whatever Tobago wants to do – whether it is to stay with Trinidad, or have a federal government, or an association like how the Eastern Caribbean has same currency but are separate countries, or you want to go on your own, which is a choice Tobagonians have. Not saying we want one or the other or want to leave now, but that choice should be a choice we can make."

BYisrael lamented the two days of debate in Parliament between the PNM and the UNC.

"It is a sad showing of the kind of colonialism Tobago has had to deal with for quite some time. You have two very Trinidad-based parties having full discussion about what is right for Tobago without the input of the people of Tobago who have to live with the consequences of their decision."

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/07/01/pdp-au ... ions-open/

Highlighted the parts in bold so you can finally figure it out.

Article proves my point that the PDP not only wants autonomy/independence but also the option/choice to secede. If included in the bill, passed and proclaimed, Tobagonians would have that choice at anytime in the future to secede. PDP is not asking right now to secede from Trinidad which you and the pnm are spinning at the moment.

It's not hard to understand, but thanks for proving my point Habit7

The article proves what I was saying. Duke doesn't want autonomy, but he wants secession and independence (not the soft independence you are peddling). The ppl of Tobago were consulted and they want autonomy, not independence. Duke is talking his raw opinion and Farley and Dr Israel are just trying to polish it like presidential press secretary. You are trying to polish his opinion too.

A chance to secede in the future is a chance to secede now. If your wife tells you to sign divorce papers just in case, is not a recipe for trust and commitment. No place in T&T is available for anybody to pick up and leave otherwise we will die by a thousand cuts. PDP and Hochoy Charles will never agree with a Tobago Autonomy Bill because they don't want autonomy. They want secession and independence.

[The_Honourable]

I dont know who put you as Watson Duke's publicist, but he is very clear without your attempts of clarifications. This is not pro-PNM, or a PNM filter. This is the man's words yesterday!

PDP: Autonomy insufficient, Tobago must keep options open
STEPHON NICHOLAS YESTERDAY

Progressive Democratic Patriots (PDP) political leader Watson Duke is adamant that Tobagonians want more than internal self governance. In a Facebook live on Wednesday, Duke said Tobagonians – if they so desire – should be given the opportunity to become fully independent of Trinidad.

The parliamentary debate on the Constitution Amendment Bill and Tobago Island Government Bill, intended to give Tobago greater autonomy, ended on Tuesday, but a vote was not taken.

Duke, who previously described the bill as a "vacant paper" unable to give Tobagonians the self-determination they aspire to, continued his criticism of the Joint Select Committee's report to Parliament.

"This is a bitter battle and I will stand against anybody, inside my party or outside, who dare to say Tobago only wants internal self government – wrong.

"Tobago wants the right to freely choose its political status without any external interference," he said.

"Political status means we could have internal self government, if we want to.

"It means if we don't want that we could change we mind and have an association (with Trinidad), if we want to.

"If we don't want internal self government nor an association, we could go fully independent, if we want to.

"That is what we want and anybody in my party or outside who say different, I will challenge them.

"That is what I want for Tobago. Tobagonians must speak and we must make up our minds about what we want."

Although the autonomy bill was born out of countless consultations in Tobago, Duke insisted that it still does not reflect the wishes of its people in its present form.

"The man with the sore foot in Tobago is way more important than the man with the doctorate that lives in Maraval in Trinidad. You know why? Because it is ah Tobago issue and the people of Tobago count. Everybody has a voice. This must involve a full discussion."

In Parliament on Tuesday, the Prime Minister said Duke, at the party's 2020 general election campaign launch, had advocated for secession.

Quoting from Duke's speech at Magdalena hotel, Dr Rowley said the PDP leader had called for Tobago's own judicial system, own High Court, own immigration control, own air traffic control and own prime minister."

Rowley said, "That is not the position of the PNM and I know that is not position of the people of Tobago...Who in Tobago is Watson Duke talking for with that?

"Madam Speaker, if you not sharing immigration control aren't you an independent country, separate and apart from?"

Rowley said Duke's flirtation with the idea of secession will find its way into the heart of the UNC who, if in government, would grant the wish.

In an interview with Newsday on Wednesday, PDP deputy leader Dr Faith BYisrael said Tobago must be given the right to keep its options open.

"Yes, I think that is the point of autonomy – to choose whatever you wish. It is up to the people on the ground to make the choice for themselves.

"Whatever Tobago wants to do – whether it is to stay with Trinidad, or have a federal government, or an association like how the Eastern Caribbean has same currency but are separate countries, or you want to go on your own, which is a choice Tobagonians have. Not saying we want one or the other or want to leave now, but that choice should be a choice we can make."

BYisrael lamented the two days of debate in Parliament between the PNM and the UNC.

"It is a sad showing of the kind of colonialism Tobago has had to deal with for quite some time. You have two very Trinidad-based parties having full discussion about what is right for Tobago without the input of the people of Tobago who have to live with the consequences of their decision."

https://newsday.co.tt/2021/07/01/pdp-au ... ions-open/

Highlighted the parts in bold so you can finally figure it out.

Article proves my point that the PDP not only wants autonomy/independence but also the option/choice to secede. If included in the bill, passed and proclaimed, Tobagonians would have that choice at anytime in the future to secede. PDP is not asking right now to secede from Trinidad which you and the pnm are spinning at the moment.

It's not hard to understand, but thanks for proving my point Habit7

The article proves what I was saying. Duke doesn't want autonomy, but he wants secession and independence (not the soft independence you are peddling). The ppl of Tobago were consulted and they want autonomy, not independence. Duke is talking his raw opinion and Farley and Dr Israel are just trying to polish it like presidential press secretary. You are trying to polish his opinion too.

A chance to secede in the future is a chance to secede now. If your wife tells you to sign divorce papers just in case, is not a recipe for trust and commitment. No place in T&T is available for anybody to pick up and leave otherwise we will die by a thousand cuts. PDP and Hochoy Charles will never agree with a Tobago Autonomy Bill because they don't want autonomy. They want secession and independence.

The article you posted states that Duke doesn't want autonomy alone, he also wants the option or choice for Tobago to secede. Why is this so hard for you to understand? If you don't believe him, just say so. I get you are pro-pnm but don't try to manipulate the meaning of what others are saying. In addition, your divorce analogy is all wrong.

And if 2 political leaders decide that they want to secede, they alone can't pull it off as they would virtually need all Tobagonians to get behind it. The option should be there and let Tobagonians decide if that is what they really want whether is one year, ten years or 100 years from now.

Nice attempt to lump in Hochoy Charles who is not even PDP but leader of his own party, One Tobago Voice. I'll let you read a June 2021 article where he was interviewed:

Hochoy Charles: Why is Tobago treated differently?



The bills on internal self-government for Tobago, says former THA chief secretary Hochoy Charles, leader of the One Tobago Voice party, would definitely deny Tobago the right to self-determination and the equality of status promised by Parliament in 1977, a promise repeated in 1996 and 2013 and again in these bills in 2021.

In a letter to the joint select committee on the bills, Charles said they do not recognise the right of the people of Tobago to “freely determine their political status and to pursue their economic social and cultural development.”

He recalled when TT sought its self-government from the United Kingdom, discussions were held in London in November 1959 and in Trinidad in June 1960 between the UK Government and the TT Government and Opposition.

“The report of those constitutional discussions contains basically the agreement of Trinidad – Government and Opposition on what Trinidad wanted to take responsibility for as internal self-government."

He said the UK Government made no changes, and also that it held no consultations with the people of TT.

“The British colonial powers did not treat Trinidad that way. They respected your judgment and your decision and provided the appropriate legislation. Why is Tobago treated so differently by Trinidad?”

He said on June 7, 1957 Dr Eric Williams had said Tobago had exchanged the neglect of UK imperialism for the neglect of Trinidad imperialism.

“Tobago is still paying that price and it is time to put this matter to rest.”

One Tobago Voice, he said, is confident that democratic self-government to Tobago can be arrived at satisfactorily and expeditiously.

“Tobago has clearly said what it wants as democratic self-government within the sovereign democratic state of T&T, and since both parties in the Parliament are on record indicating that this is of critical importance for harmonious relationship between the islands of Tobago and Trinidad in the sovereign democratic state of TT...”

As a result, he said, appropriate legislation should now be drafted and discussed with Tobago. Assistance, he said could be sought if needed from the United Nations, the Commonwealth Secretariat, and the law schools of the Caribbean. One Tobago Voice is also, and has always been, available to assist, he said.

Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2021/06/02/hochoy ... fferently/

[daxt0r]

i does be in every corner of bago due to my work an even purchase lands across they thx to some good advice from folks rite here on tuner, but i wa know which part have them good roads habit talkin about cuz from yuh land right in the airport or in scarborough is big pothole an rough unenven road, to the entire milford and local store bay road to any where in the east is terrible roads. Even Les Coutaex and up Georgia where kcr from is terrible roads in fact the only road i can think of that kinda good is shirvan good.

Then again according to habit it doh matter how much THA tief, misappropriate and cya account for, as they get stuff, it matters not who pockets were lined three four times along the way. Is jus like how much was lost with the PNM inspired HDC/CEPEP/URP/WASA/PT schemes all of which among many many others are PNM feeding troughs, he has no problems that since 1962 they siphoning off trillions and created policies that encourage corruption, nepotism and incompetence.

Tell me, as a tax payer, who mind you can't get his tax or vat refunds 2 years now while criminals get pools and state contracts or ministers getting immediate tax exemptions on their luxury car purchases bought which USD i cannot access, nor a good road to drive on, nor can anyone travel freely around this crime ridden country safely, what the PNM has done other than enrichen themself and they family and just impose taxes on my income and freedom while doing everything possible to erode security, wellbeing, transparency and ease of doing business.

Stay off da juice bro or here wa fact check b4 yuh run and post or you and Donna Cox have same handlers and you too believe the majority of folks eh suffering after a year lockdown and they in fact greedy not needy, or do you like her have to believe an regurgitate everything handed down by the handlers without question?
Yuh massa go open back jus now and encourage a big lime again bago for more super spreaders as they done get they Pfizer try and take a drive from Charloteville to Lanse Fourmi for some hot stove oven bread an butter and then tell me bout good roads.