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THA Elections

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Who do you believe will win the THA elections?

TOP
56
60%
PNM
37
40%
 
Total votes: 93

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Habit7 » January 10th, 2013, 10:13 pm

Glad to see it was mature and devoid of bacchanal (except for Hochoy calling out Jack for his notes)

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Re: THA Elections

Postby pugboy » January 10th, 2013, 10:14 pm

it appears they were given the questions beforehand
hence the ease of answering

quite unlike ganga singh who ketch he tail to answer a few questions at the parliament news conference today

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Rooki3 » January 11th, 2013, 7:39 am

debate was cool

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Re: THA Elections

Postby toyota2nr » January 11th, 2013, 10:11 am

Hochoy Charles was clearly the real tobagonian there. It has a clear understanding of Tobago and what they need.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby rfari » January 11th, 2013, 12:17 pm

Secrets of the census in Trinidad and Tobago




Devant "Parsuram" Maharaj



Indians in T&T form a clear majority but continue to be treated like a minority! The State undertook a national census in 2000. Census Day was heavily advertised as June 8. The Maha Sabha advised all Hindus and the general population to fully co-operate with personnel conducting this important exercise.



To date, the data collected have not been made available to the general population. The Maha Sabha suspects that there is political interference to suppress the data because the data must direct the expenditures and other State inputs into areas that reflect growth. Population growth demands additional social facilities.



This census information is to see what areas of the country need what. If a town or district has more children living in it than it had ten years ago, then this will be a place that needs a school. If workers in the cities are spending too much time getting to work because they are stuck in traffic, then it will be necessary to build more roads.



The critical census data will also point to the ethnic composition and could force the politicians to rethink their efforts of imposing a state culture on the majority population.



The US conducted a nationwide census that was more complex than the T&T census. This exercise conducted on April 1, 2000, also marked 210 years since the first census was taken in that country.



According to US publications, its 2000 census has grown to be a sophisticated tool. It not only counted the population but also “sampled the socio-economic status of the population, providing a tool for government, educators, business owners and others to get a snapshot of the state of the nation.”



In T&T, the politicians in charge are deliberating about withholding publication of the 2000 census results to deny the population “a snapshot of the state of the nation.”



The secret numbers and other data of census 2000 are held in the Ministry of Planning and Development at its Statistical Office, National Statistical Building, 80 Independence Square, Port-of-Spain. They cannot be published because finance is not being made available.



The Maha Sabha, however, was able to access what has been described as “response data.” The data does not help businessmen or religious groups to make decisions, but we were able to extract the racial composition of T&T, according to age, sex and ethnic origin in the various geographical areas.



We now understand why the numbers are being deliberately withheld from the people of T&T. It is because they reflect the rising Indian population and the falling African population. The African population is a minority in T&T and if Tobago is excluded, its minority status becomes more pronounced.



According to the 2000 response census data, the total population of T&T was 1,114,772. The three major ethnic groups listed are Africans, Indians and mixed.



The Indian population in T&T is 40.03 per cent, while the African population fell by more than two per cent to 37.5 per cent. The mixed rose to 20.46 per cent and the other groups just around two per cent.



An examination of the census data from 1980, 1990 and 2000 shows that despite heavy migration to North America by Indians under the regime of ANR Robinson’s National Alliance for Reconstruction (NAR, 1986-1991), the Indian percentage of the population has held steady.



In 1980 it was 40.7 per cent, in 1990, 40.3 per cent and in 2000, 40.03 per cent.



On the other hand, the African population was 40.8 per cent in 1980, in 1990, 39.6 per cent and in 2000, 37.5 per cent.



The mixed population seemed to have benefited from the African drop. In 1980, it was 16.3 per cent; 1990, 18.4 per cent and in 2000, it jumped by two per cent to 20.46 per cent.



Dr Morgan Job has been attempting to influence the people of Tobago to seek a federal relationship with Trinidad. He even advocates outright independence. I say let the 44,190 go independent if they wish or, for that matter, let them join a federal relationship with Grenada and let Morgan Job be president.



The result will make the African population of Trinidad a smaller minority by another two per cent. With the Tobago figure taken out of the 2000 census figures, the Indian majority will climb to 41.85 per cent while the African will slip to 35.04 per cent.



These census figures that are being suppressed have serious implications for the disbursement of funds for education, culture, regional development and other State realignments.



Failure to respond to these new figures will surely witness appeals to the international community for economic, cultural and other interventions.



[Devant "Parsuram" Maharaj is an Executive Member of the Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha Inc. [SDMS] - the largest Hindu body on the island. in 2002 Maharaj was appointed the SDMS Delegate to the Inter-Religious Organization [IRO] of Trinidad & Tobago.

In 1996 Devant along with Kamal Persad began the first Indian oriented radio talk show called "The Hindu View Point" which ran for 2 years on 91.1 FM. Recently in 2002 Maharaj has been appointed President of Global Organization for People of Indian Organization [GOPIO] Chapter.

Mr. Maharaj is a weekly columnist with the Trinidad Newsday since 1997. He has also been published in, amongst others, the Trinidad Guardian, The Jamaica Gleaner, The Barbados Nation, The St. Lucia Star, India Post, Asian Age, BJP Today, Hinduism Today, Indian Express and India Abroad.

Maharaj along with Dr. Kumar Mahabir began in 2003 an on-line network discussion group dedicated to the Indian Caribbean Experience: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IndianCaribbean/

http://www.southasianoutlook.com/issues ... b0409.html

Orrrr...

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Habit7 » January 11th, 2013, 12:29 pm

Well you posted it, not me. I have about 5 more articles likewise but it didnt want to get into a tit for tat and certain tuners discrediting it by saying my blog article trumps your newspaper article.


It truly saddens me the indignant hypocrisy of those rejecting Hilton Sandy's apology and calling PNM as a whole racist. Hochoy Charles' response to the race question could have well have come from my very own mouth.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby toyota2nr » January 11th, 2013, 7:34 pm

I will continue to reject Sandy's apology and Sat Maharaj, Devant Maharaj and anyone else who makes those types of statements. It wasn't even a proper apology.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby UML » January 16th, 2013, 8:46 am

PROBE ON SANDY
Equal Opportunity Commission investigates 'Calcutta' statements
By Anna Ramdass anna.ramdass@trinidadexpress.com

Story Created: Jan 15, 2013 at 9:53 PM ECT

Story Updated: Jan 16, 2013 at 6:26 AM ECT

The Equal Opportunity Commission (EOC) has begun a probe of People's National Movement (PNM) member Hilton Sandy's controversial "Calcutta" statement and has issued a preliminary report on the issue.

The preliminary report, which is dated January 15, stated the EOC "received a complaint via its website on January 10 from the Equality Council of Trinidad and Tobago (the complainant) against Mr Hilton Sandy (the respondent) of offensive behaviour."

The Express yesterday obtained a copy of the EOC's report on the matter—"Equality Council of Trinidad and Tobago-v-Mr Hilton Sandy".

Sandy, the incumbent candidate for the electoral district of Belle Garden East/Roxborough/Delaford, at a public political meeting in Tobago on Friday, January 4, urged the people to vote for the PNM, saying a ship from Calcutta was waiting to sail to Tobago, pending the outcome of the Tobago House of Assembly (THA) election scheduled for January 21.

Sandy has since twice apologised for his statement.

Vice-chair of the Equality Council of Trinidad and Tobago Barrington "Skippy" Thomas, who is an executive member of the United National Congress (UNC), lodged a formal complaint of offensive behaviour against Sandy with the EOC, which is chaired by Prof John Le Guerre.

Thomas claimed Sandy breached Section 7 (1) of the Equal Opportunity Act, which defines offensive behaviour as "A person shall not otherwise than in private do an act which:

(a) Is reasonably likely in all the circumstances to offend, insult, humiliate or intimidate another person or groups of persons

(b) Is done because of the gender, race, ethnicity, origin, or religion of the other person or of some or all of the persons in the group

(c) Is done with the intention of inciting gender, racial or religious hatred.

With respect to "boats from Calcutta", Thomas complained: "this statement was directed at his political opponents who are allied to the People's Partnership Government. It was interpreted by many to be a reference to persons of East Indian origin; persons of East Indian origin are, by and large, the traditional support base of the United National Congress political party, which is the majority party within the People's Partnership Government.

"Mr Sandy is a candidate for the People's National Movement political party, which has had its traditional support base among persons of African ethnic origin. At the same time, it is to be noted that demographic data has shown that the population of Tobago is, by and large, traditionally of African ethnic origin.

"Given this background, the complainant feels that the respondent's statements are "acrimonious, racist and combustible" and were made to "perjure and insult" persons of East Indian origin as a group, "with the intention of inciting racial/tribal voting practice in the upcoming THA election".

The EOC also said; "It is to be noted that the commission has not yet received a proper transcript of the respondent's full statement. As such, we cannot at this point make any conclusions or findings on the matter. Further, it was reported in the news media that the respondent has apologised or retracted his statement. We would also need to see the transcript of this as it would affect that we can and cannot do."

The EOC stated that offensive behaviour under the Act was not created as a criminal offence and, as such, it was not within the remit of the commission to fine or reprimand Sandy.

The commission's function, stated the preliminary report, is to receive, investigate and, as far as possible, conciliate allegations of discri- mination.

If the matter cannot be resolved by conciliation, then an Equal Opportunity Tribunal is appointed to examine it further.

The EOC stated in order to prove a complaint of offensive behaviour, the alleged act must meet all three criteria set out in Section 7 (1), which was quoted above.

The first criterion, stated the EOC, is objective—the conduct or statement must reasonably likely, in all of the circumstances, insult, offend, humiliate or intimate another person or group of persons.

The EOC stated the statements made must be looked at in their entirety, as well as the context of the surrounding circumstances, and a conclusion must be drawn as to whether it is reasonable that humiliation was caused.

The EOC added the second criterion is a question of fact, that is the conduct or statement must be done because of the gender, race, ethnicity, origin or religion of the other person or of some or all of the persons in the group.

The third criterion, stated the EOC, is subjective—the statement must be made with the intention of inciting gender, racial or religious hatred.

"Proving a person's intent is a challenge but it is not impossible. It has been said that the state of a man's mind is as much a fact as the state of his digestion, and that one's intent can be proven as any factual matter," stated the EOC.

"In criminal law, one is taken to have intended the natural consequences of one's actions so that, for example, one cannot point and shoot a loaded gun at a crowd of persons and then say one did not intend to do harm," stated the EOC.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/PRO ... 49951.html


like this have the PNM stalwarts quiet...cah defend the defenseless :|

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Re: THA Elections

Postby zoom rader » January 16th, 2013, 8:50 am

Sandy should be made an example of, these PNM racist have to stop their racist crap

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Re: THA Elections

Postby kurpal_v2 » January 16th, 2013, 10:24 am

Habit7 wrote:Well you posted it, not me. I have about 5 more articles likewise but it didnt want to get into a tit for tat and certain tuners discrediting it by saying my blog article trumps your newspaper article.


It truly saddens me the indignant hypocrisy of those rejecting Hilton Sandy's apology and calling PNM as a whole racist. Hochoy Charles' response to the race question could have well have come from my very own mouth.




PNM as a whole racist, no. Majority of the PNM however, yes, example PNM Abroad.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby TRAE » January 16th, 2013, 11:59 am

i doh think people realize that the poll is who we think go win- TOP eh winning there soulja, Tobago been getting fed that race talk all their lives from the PNM yuh think dem going and change? Its no secret that PNM racist

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Re: THA Elections

Postby TRAE » January 16th, 2013, 12:01 pm

zoom rader wrote:Sandy should be made an example of, these PNM racist have to stop their racist crap


Partna if this were the other way around, PNM woulda have a march in POS for the removal of his post, we woulda see Front page headlines for a week, Rowley woulda end up Penal again... But as is PNM nothing go happen to he

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Habit7 » January 16th, 2013, 12:27 pm

Image

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Rooki3 » January 16th, 2013, 1:25 pm

i start to believe the "indian comin over" allegation

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Re: THA Elections

Postby kurpal_v2 » January 16th, 2013, 1:26 pm

Rooki3 wrote:i start to believe the "indian comin over" allegation



How?

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Rooki3 » January 16th, 2013, 1:36 pm

seeing an indian guy buy TOP office in d west right thru, he have x5 & coupe 3 series, ssing d same guy overseeing the refurbishment of an old restaurant & i hear he alread has one setup in crown point

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Re: THA Elections

Postby rfari » January 16th, 2013, 1:42 pm

U knw what jokey? Sandy made his insulting remarks right. Ppl kickup a fuss about it yet the top has the sound byte in one of its election campaigning adverts on regular rotation on the radio:-? How can such a divisive statement be repeated if it cause so much hurt and whatnot?

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Re: THA Elections

Postby kurpal_v2 » January 16th, 2013, 1:47 pm

rfari wrote:U knw what jokey? Sandy made his insulting remarks right. Ppl kickup a fuss about it yet the top has the sound byte in one of its election campaigning adverts on regular rotation on the radio:-? How can such a divisive statement be repeated if it cause so much hurt and whatnot?




Them ads really sad, the one with the kids singing :|


Rooki3 wrote:seeing an indian guy buy TOP office in d west right thru, he have x5 & coupe 3 series, ssing d same guy overseeing the refurbishment of an old restaurant & i hear he alread has one setup in crown point


So how your brain reach from there to

Rooki3 wrote:i start to believe the "indian comin over" allegation



Idk I can't find the link.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby toyota2nr » January 16th, 2013, 2:14 pm

Habit and rfari can twist it how they want everybody know the PNM has been racist for years. Since the days of Eric Williams. The only reason there's a fuss now is because they got caught. Even they know the apology is not sincere but they trying something.

PNM can't make an original ad they had to copy the TOP ad........ :sick:

:evilbat:

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Rooki3 » January 16th, 2013, 2:26 pm

kurpal_v2 wrote:
rfari wrote:U knw what jokey? Sandy made his insulting remarks right. Ppl kickup a fuss about it yet the top has the sound byte in one of its election campaigning adverts on regular rotation on the radio:-? How can such a divisive statement be repeated if it cause so much hurt and whatnot?




Them ads really sad, the one with the kids singing :|


Rooki3 wrote:seeing an indian guy buy TOP office in d west right thru, he have x5 & coupe 3 series, ssing d same guy overseeing the refurbishment of an old restaurant & i hear he alread has one setup in crown point


So how your brain reach from there to

Rooki3 wrote:i start to believe the "indian comin over" allegation



Idk I can't find the link.



then u alot more remedial than i imagined

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Rooki3 » January 16th, 2013, 2:28 pm

rfari wrote:U knw what jokey? Sandy made his insulting remarks right. Ppl kickup a fuss about it yet the top has the sound byte in one of its election campaigning adverts on regular rotation on the radio:-? How can such a divisive statement be repeated if it cause so much hurt and whatnot?


well dais d consequences of his actions, he shud have nvr said it to begin with, local election are more abt mudslinging than actual issues, so its fitting

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Re: THA Elections

Postby rfari » January 16th, 2013, 2:54 pm

toyota2nr wrote:Habit and rfari can twist it how they want everybody know the PNM has been racist for years. Since the days of Eric Williams. The only reason there's a fuss now is because they got caught. Even they know the apology is not sincere but they trying something.

PNM can't make an original ad they had to copy the TOP ad........ :sick:

:evilbat:

Yeah geedem. :roll:
I sure u like the top advert that spliced rowley's ship comment when he and manning were warring circa 2009 with sandy's calcutta comment. In anycase, we all lose as pertinent issues arent being addressed.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby toyota2nr » January 16th, 2013, 3:02 pm

^^ ok true pertinent issues not being discussed.

No I don't like that spliced ad but as said before that's the consequences of their actions. It's a warning to all politicians that they need to be more honest to themselves and the people and be careful what they say.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby 16 cycles » January 16th, 2013, 3:03 pm

that the remarks, even if true, were expressions of his constitutional right to free speech and could not in any way form the substance of a disciplinary charge. ....... I shall say only that constitutional rights are not absolute and anyone who is prepared publicly to express such outrageous, extremist and bigoted views should also be prepared to suffer the natural consequences which flow from their expression

Nolan P.G. Bereaux
Puisne Judge
26th June 2006


Judgement given in matter wrt Devant Maharaj's comments at a dinner but applicable to all who wish to express divisive comments...

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Re: THA Elections

Postby rfari » January 16th, 2013, 3:28 pm

They dont call him deviant maharaj for nothibg unno.
Ok. We all on the same page here then? Nice.
Any predictions for next monday's elections?

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Re: THA Elections

Postby toyota2nr » January 16th, 2013, 3:30 pm

TOP getting 7 or 8. PNM getting the rest. Hochoy would not get any seats.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Rooki3 » January 16th, 2013, 3:30 pm

it real confusing, i was thinkin TOP, but the recent poll have me confused

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Re: THA Elections

Postby rfari » January 16th, 2013, 3:53 pm

toyota2nr wrote:TOP getting 7 or 8. PNM getting the rest. Hochoy would not get any seats.

I actually wouldn't mind this. I'll buy-into the pnm when its at its lowest in recent years. :mrgreen:

Rooki3 wrote:it real confusing, i was thinkin TOP, but the recent poll have me confused

Whats the feel on the ground tho? U from bago right?

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Habit7 » January 16th, 2013, 3:55 pm

toyota2nr wrote:Habit and rfari can twist it how they want everybody know the PNM has been racist for years. Since the days of Eric Williams. The only reason there's a fuss now is because they got caught. Even they know the apology is not sincere but they trying something.

I fed up, I concede. PNM is the only racist party in T&T, daily constructing new racist policy in Baliser House for all the 37 years they were in rule. Luckily in spite this, the PP appointed T&T Ambassador to the US can address an audience that Indo-Trinidadians are the "the most well-to-do and culturally strong and progressive ethnic group in the uniquely plural society of T&T."http://guardian.co.tt/news/2012-11-15/parsan-slammed-comments-east-indians

That is why the PNM would disagreed with UNC Senator Harry Mungalsingh on practising eugenics (à la Adolf Hitler) on those who belong to communities that make up "83 percent of the prison population" http://www.newsday.co.tt/commentary/0,53705.html

That is why the PNM supported the CCJ as a blind arbiter of supreme justice even though the UNC's member for Siparia found that justice must come from at least one or two persons of Indo descent.

That is why PNM has not forced Tobago succeed from our Republic because according to Devant Maharaj, it currently allows for higher Afro-Trinidadian population in the country's statistics. http://www.southasianoutlook.com/issues ... b0409.html

So yes the PNM 37 years of leadership has allowed to racial division to reflect that of our neighbour Guyana or even Fiji. This was done however without the help of Jack Warner, who on a UNC platform in 2009 bellowed "No foreigner, particularly a white foreigner, will come to my country and harass me’ in relation to BBC journalist Andrew Jennings.

So even though Hilton Sandy has apologise several times on several platforms, I should judge it as insincere. However when Jamal Mohammed wrote and gave a religious context to a local racial derogative and was then ask whether or not to publicize it and openly affirmed, his verbal apology while going about his job doing a gov't press conference was sincere and above reproach.

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Re: THA Elections

Postby Habit7 » January 16th, 2013, 3:58 pm

Rooki3 wrote:it real confusing, i was thinkin TOP, but the recent poll have me confused

The poll has me confused too because while I was on the ground in Tobago TOP has great support, nothing indicative of a landslide victory against them.

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