CNG situation in south

[The_Honourable]

Ask yourself if it’s a conspiracy

[Redman]

Normal Diesel or gas -3 minutes to fill-95% of vehicles on the road.
Transaction 50-200+
Margins 2-4%

CNG-longer fill time
5% of the market
Much smaller Value transactions.

As an owner I why would I include a Highly Capital Intensive line, that is low value turnover($ value per transaction),low throughput(speed of customer turnover),LOW Margin(small return per transaction) and that will clog up my selling space with vehicles waiting to fill.

So why deass would I increase my upfront and on going cost-(as the CNG supply chain uses a ton of electricity )to attract low value returns while complicating my target business?

its just not efficient to any one but the end user.

see below for the 2011 propaganda
http://www.energy.gov.tt/our-business/a ... programme/

[pugboy]

the cng fill times are actually pretty short, at least by flour mills(except for buses, 20mins)

its not a conspiracy,
its just plain not attractive to an old school gas station owner to put out the money to upgrade their station to add cng pumps given the low profits they already making

far less new investors looking to open a station

the new gas stations make their money from the extra goods sold in the shop and not the fuel/cng

it also doesnt help that np does stupid things like insist that the cng pumps be installed in between the liquid fuel pumps(flour mills)
which is an inconvenience to the liquid buyers esp since the driver has to walk across to pay.

so the long and short is dont expect any gas station owner to install cng pumps anytime soon
esp since the np/govt not in the business of direct owning stations anymore.

[The_Honourable]

gee dem colm!

Imbert: Forget conversion to CNG, Use hybrid vehicles

by Richard Lord

Fri Nov 22 2013

Op­po­si­tion MP Colm Im­bert said a three-year pro­pos­al by the Gov­ern­ment to spend $500 mil­lion to con­vert 17,500 ve­hi­cles from gaso­line and diesel to com­pressed nat­ur­al gas would be a waste of tax­pay­ers' mon­ey. Im­bert spoke in the House of Rep­re­sen­ta­tives yes­ter­day dur­ing de­bate to con­firm the Ex­cise Du­ty (Com­pressed Nat­ur­al Gas Or­der, 2013) by Fi­nance and the Econ­o­my Min­is­ter Lar­ry Howai.

Howai said the mea­sure would ef­fec­tive­ly re­duce the price of CNG, which would en­cour­age dri­vers to con­vert to the clean­er fu­el. The min­is­ter said that was a ma­jor ini­tia­tive aimed at re­duc­ing the an­nu­al $4 bil­lion fu­el sub­sidy. The ini­tia­tive al­so calls for the con­struc­tion of sev­er­al CNG sta­tions across the coun­try.

But Im­bert said the plan was ab­surd and was not new, hav­ing been re­peat­ed by the Gov­ern­ment for the past three years. Im­bert said not one ve­hi­cle was con­vert­ed to CNG and no new CNG sta­tions were con­struct­ed since the Peo­ple's Part­ner­ship Gov­ern­ment came in­to of­fice in May 2010. Min­is­ter of State in the En­vi­ron­ment and Wa­ter Re­sources Min­istry Ra­mona Ram­di­al dis­missed Im­bert's claim, say­ing three gov­ern­ment ve­hi­cles have been con­vert­ed to CNG so far.

Im­bert said for the past sev­er­al years at­tempts have been made to en­cour­age dri­vers to con­vert to CNG but the ma­jor­i­ty seem un­in­ter­est­ed, for sev­er­al rea­sons. He said it may be ap­pro­pri­ate to con­sid­er oth­er al­ter­na­tive fu­els, as the CNG plan has been a colos­sal fail­ure. Im­bert said the Gov­ern­ment should in­stead seek to en­cour­age the use of hy­brid ve­hi­cles as they were more cost-ef­fec­tive than CNG. He said the typ­i­cal ve­hi­cle gives an av­er­age of 25 miles to the gal­lon but a hy­brid ve­hi­cle gives an av­er­age of 50 mpg.

"We need to look at en­cour­ag­ing the use of hy­brids in T&T," Im­bert told leg­is­la­tors. He said the use of hy­brid ve­hi­cles (elec­tric and gaso­line) would go a long way to ad­dress­ing the fu­el sub­sidy is­sue, and sug­gest­ed the im­port du­ty, the val­ue added and mo­tor ve­hi­cle tax­es should be re­duced to ze­ro on hy­brid ve­hi­cles. Im­bert said the Op­po­si­tion was "very sus­pi­cious" about the mea­sure as there was the pos­si­bil­i­ty of cor­rup­tion.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/article-6.2.411374.3dfdf634c3

[Redman]

It was uneconomic before it was introduced.

Yet another sound good 'solution' that compound the problem.

Trying to reduce the fuel subsidy by using CNG sold at a subsidized price using an electricity intensive retail process (while electricity is subsidized)

Like solar I may add.

[pugboy]

I thought there are taxes on hybrids

[BIG BLUE]

Cng monrepo still down

[sMASH]

Some big boy getting contract to supply, possibly.

I thought there are taxes on hybrids

Once cng move anything past 1.50, that stop making sense, new consumer wise.

The thing is, there is a lot of demand for it now. So he taking crap. The installers not getting time to breathe.

The consumption of vehicular cng in the country is less than that of any process plant, so its not like its eating into the national natural gas reserves.

Once they open more stations in the south, u will get a lot more buy in.



But Imo, the future is really ev, not even hybrid.

[pugboy]

Setting up Cng fill station not as simple as liquid fuels though
Requires high pressure equipment to store and transfer to the cars
Not cheap or simple

[kamakazi]

Setting up Cng fill station not as simple as liquid fuels though
Requires high pressure equipment to store and transfer to the cars
Not cheap or simple

How does that portable setup work exactly

[sMASH]

Setting up Cng fill station not as simple as liquid fuels though
Requires high pressure equipment to store and transfer to the cars
Not cheap or simple

How does that portable setup work exactly

from eyeballing it. it will have storage tanks, highpressure compressors, filters, and metering system. rushworth already had a natural gas line, so it would just connect to that, as a supply, filter, compress, store in the high pressure tanks, then fill, through the meter.
most likely.

[Redman]

One of the major issues remain space at existing sites.

New to industry sites can be designed...but retrofitting is a huge problem.

The cost benefit is not there.
Never was.

[pugboy]

And the additional queues will be a serious issue to contend with.

Flour mills station is usually booked up at night with the buses

One of the major issues remain space at existing sites.

New to industry sites can be designed...but retrofitting is a huge problem.

The cost benefit is not there.
Never was.

[PariaMan]

Pal of might bought a Nissan leaf , went for a ride in it today

Very nice , smooth and good acceleration

Loaded with tech

He charges at home using 220 dryer socket

[nemisis]

Taxi men make a scene around 5.33 saying they in line an hour. Also what the attendant said was that even though they could run the machine until the supervisor comes to sign off she went home 11 last night and working the pump non stop since 5am. Since the sign says 5.30 she done pump for the day.

[sMASH]

the reason why rushworth stopped doing cng in the first place, was they didnt want to pay the extra salary to man the pumps. cause, as stated above, the mark up is low inspite of high traffic.

[pugboy]

Them taxi men need to switch to the full sized Prius

That is the car taxis use all over Europe and Canada

[maj. tom]

errr, so seeing how it's fuel and a vital lifeline for most of the traveling public, can't the powers that be order the Army down there to operate the pumps, etc. until they can solve the problem? Or is it that the government is just deaf to this fuel crisis going on in south?

[nemisis]

It's not a crisis just stupidity on a massive scale.

[nemisis]

You can't expect a station that running 4 pumps 24/7 outside of maintenance to be replaced by a portable cng pump that facilitates at most 2 in reality depending on the driver, vehicle size and the pump attendant directions 1 vehicle at a time without any issue. To add to it inky running the portable unit half the day

[88sins]

errr, so seeing how it's fuel and a vital lifeline for most of the traveling public, can't the powers that be order the Army down there to operate the pumps, etc. until they can solve the problem? Or is it that the government is just deaf to this fuel crisis going on in south?

what fuel crisis in south?

[maj. tom]

me eh know. The pictures and stories being portrayed here on the thread about the CNG supply in south. It confusing because some people making it out to be bad with those lines of cars and taxis not getting CNG, and now some saying it's nothing going on.

[88sins]

me eh know. The pictures and stories being portrayed here on the thread about the CNG supply in south. It confusing because some people making it out to be bad with those lines of cars and taxis not getting CNG, and now some saying it's nothing going on.

so these ppl pulled the petrol tanks from their vehicles or something? their vehicle's engines so heavily modified that they can no longer run on super or premium? how taxis & private vehicles used to run before cng? peddle power? How many taxis working in south running on cng in comparison to diesel? Who exactly is responsible for this crisis? keeping in mind, it's the vehicle owners that still chose to install cng converison kits in their vehicles even after considering the very limited number of refuelling stations, so they made their poor choice & now time come to deal with the consequences it's a problem & the direct fault the GoRTT & everybody else? (I mention 'everybody else fault' because op complaining about a red band maxi that running on cng that does refuel in south & I curious about where he going with that & what business is that of his where the man decide to refuel, like he didn't consider that it may just be that it doesn't have a supply in the east, or that the operator possibly living in south & it easier for him to refuel there)
no cng? no problem, either use gasoline till you get cng & or park up & travel. if you can't afford to drive a vehicle unless it running on cng strictly because of the lower cost of cng in comparison to super or premium gasoline & to do that you need to have a steady supply, then guess what? you can't afford to drive and so you shouldn't be driving. either way, all this whining does nothing to remedy the perceived "crisis" situation.

in his very first address to the nation allyuh pm say tighten allyuh belt. time to suck een dat gut & bite the bullet, & put on the long trousers & pull up to the pumps like a big boy now.

[Redman]

It's not a crisis just stupidity on a massive scale.

YES...multiple administrations, multiple budgets Millions spent years wasted, samesheitonlysofter results.

CNG will not make sense once the GORTT keeps any subsidies in play.

Sound Good feel good political abortion

[sMASH]

me eh know. The pictures and stories being portrayed here on the thread about the CNG supply in south. It confusing because some people making it out to be bad with those lines of cars and taxis not getting CNG, and now some saying it's nothing going on.

so these ppl pulled the petrol tanks from their vehicles or something? their vehicle's engines so heavily modified that they can no longer run on super or premium? how taxis & private vehicles used to run before cng? peddle power? How many taxis working in south running on cng in comparison to diesel? Who exactly is responsible for this crisis? keeping in mind, it's the vehicle owners that still chose to install cng converison kits in their vehicles even after considering the very limited number of refuelling stations, so they made their poor choice & now time come to deal with the consequences it's a problem & the direct fault the GoRTT & everybody else? (I mention 'everybody else fault' because op complaining about a red band maxi that running on cng that does refuel in south & I curious about where he going with that & what business is that of his where the man decide to refuel, like he didn't consider that it may just be that it doesn't have a supply in the east, or that the operator possibly living in south & it easier for him to refuel there)
no cng? no problem, either use gasoline till you get cng & or park up & travel. if you can't afford to drive a vehicle unless it running on cng strictly because of the lower cost of cng in comparison to super or premium gasoline & to do that you need to have a steady supply, then guess what? you can't afford to drive and so you shouldn't be driving. either way, all this whining does nothing to remedy the perceived "crisis" situation.

in his very first address to the nation allyuh pm say tighten allyuh belt. time to suck een dat gut & bite the bullet, & put on the long trousers & pull up to the pumps like a big boy now.

the price was cheaper, didnt u know it was raised? and the real old vehicles used to use regular. the switch to cng, cuts the fuel cost to 1/3 of the liquid fuel. the runs u make with 45 cng, it takes like 160 with liquid fuel. thats a big margin, for the cng user to absorb. if cng was not available, market fores would have skewed commute choices and prices different to what is now.

[nemisis]

^^^^ Funny thing, it takes two days before u need to refill cng as an example and usually 4 days let's say for super. Cng supply has been curtailed for almost two weeks so for equivalence if I wanted to reproduce this it would mean no super in south for a month " loose guesstimates so don't crucify me". I am absolutely sure if It was made known that you could only fill super from two pumps at 1 gas station for a month " must be between 6-5.30 and whenever you voiced your opinion you got a long winded answer that you can just use premium instead i wonder the response from super users.

[sMASH]

^^^^ Funny thing, it takes two days before u need to refill cng as an example and usually 4 days let's say for super. Cng supply has been curtailed for almost two weeks so for equivalence if I wanted to reproduce this it would mean no super in south for a month " loose guesstimates so don't crucify me". I am absolutely sure if It was made known that you could only fill super from two pumps at 1 gas station for a month " must be between 6-5.30 and whenever you voiced your opinion you got a long winded answer that you can just use premium instead i wonder the response from super users.

a taxi will refill two, three or even 4 times a day. rework ur 'figures' with that fuel bill,

[pugboy]

nobody ever argue that taxi fares shoulda cut by at least half if the taxi running on cng ?

[nemisis]

Not isolated to taxi men, when last any business ever get leeway in operations cost and dropped the price of their product/service?

nobody ever argue that taxi fares shoulda cut by at least half if the taxi running on cng ?

[sMASH]

nobody ever argue that taxi fares shoulda cut by at least half if the taxi running on cng ?

No.
The kits start at 12k, now 13k to install.

With the raise in fuel prices at the pumps, they were able to keep operating costs low by ADOPTING cng.

Vehicle mwintences is also a significant factor too, and also not reducing.