On the subject of GATE

[pugboy]

was there any debate on if a family had more than one child going to tertiary education ?
that would certainly be a bonafide case for different assessment of means

[wavehunter]

When they are determining means , I feel they should take into consideration major ,unavoidable expenses? eg mortgages and rent , food bill etc. A lot of middle income earners like civil servants might make Ten to twenty thousand dollars monthly ,but car payments and mortgages eat up a large chunk. They also have to feed their families and clothe them ,how much disposable income does the average family actually have?

Very good point indeed !!!!!

[desifemlove]

The out pouring of support for new gate facility model may be borne from;
-Relief that it could have been worse.
-Normal sentiment that students whose family have money don't deserve same level of assistance.
A deeper qualitative analysis of investments in education and the true meaning of equitable treatment of all may yield a completely different perspective.

so then why shouldn't richer people pay more tax? to some extent they don't, they have more resources.

[pugboy]

but who is to say if a family is overspending by living it up with a big mortgage in a bigshot area
vs the family who living tight in poorer area

When they are determining means , I feel they should take into consideration major ,unavoidable expenses? eg mortgages and rent , food bill etc. A lot of middle income earners like civil servants might make Ten to twenty thousand dollars monthly ,but car payments and mortgages eat up a large chunk. They also have to feed their families and clothe them ,how much disposable income does the average family actually have?

Very good point indeed !!!!!

[drchaos]

And by pointing out and discussing the holes does that not make it easier to plug said holes?

Your mentality stalls progress bro.

[redmanjp]

Anybody here does watch those Judge Judy court cases? have you ever noticed how many people on that show admit to applying for student loans and using it to pay rent or buy rims for their cars etc? or use it to get the boyfriend out of jail? or waste it on some dotish degree thats meaningless and then stuck with bad credit unable to repay it and unable to ever find employment and end up flipping burgers? then Judy goes berserk on them and calls the Obama administration incompetent and stupid? and how right she always is.

No matter what you do, GATE or student loans, it seems like people and or businesses find a way to exploit the system. Normally I won't care if the money being wasted is in small numbers. But the GATE budget is massive, it was inevitable that this would happen. The corruption in the GATE system in this country goes so far down the latrine hole you all have no idea.

The only system thats impossible to exploit is dollar for dollar, Pandey was ahead of his time, if the government bring back dollar for dollar one would assume that the GATE budget would be reduced by half right? actually thats not true its even better the GATE budget would be reduced by 80%. Because then all the fly by night dotish degrees would disappear. And as an added bonus we will be able to stop employers from asking for degrees to fill positions that in reality only requires CXC or A levels, this will reduce our under employment levels and an even greater added bonus degrees will become more valued because there will be less of it on the market, basic supply and demand GATE has devalued degrees.

with GATE u don't get cash , instead govt pays the institution

[teems1]

This is stupid ... Most people start tertiary education at 18. At 18 you are considered an adult and can have your own household.

What happens if my son lists himself as the head of his own household and declares his monthly income as $6000 a month (just say he cutting people lawn) that I give him as cash. He places his address at my sister in-law's house and claims he pays rent (which his aunt will back up). Looks legit on paper ...

Also who is going to investigate this to check up on his declarations which all look very legit. Trini's can't stop simple law breaking like littering, speeding (yet to caught), fraud, tax evasion, corruption and let me add the murder detection rate is a woeful 10%.

Just state the truth, if by August 2017 you can't plan from now then all the best to you.

Another example of trinis being trinis, finding fault with everything

Or just exploiting a glaring loophole. At 18 you are clearly an adult, and can claim paying rent to parents.

Big corporations utilize teams of lawyers and accounts to exploit tax law loopholes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_arrangement

[drchaos]

Like I said greggle is a bit naive.

[pugboy]

I wonder if they will crack down on the entrance requirements of those schools which advertise in the telephone book cover

[Joshie23]

When they are determining means , I feel they should take into consideration major ,unavoidable expenses? eg mortgages and rent , food bill etc. A lot of middle income earners like civil servants might make Ten to twenty thousand dollars monthly ,but car payments and mortgages eat up a large chunk. They also have to feed their families and clothe them ,how much disposable income does the average family actually have?

Very good point indeed !!!!!

Indeed a good point..and the point about living in a bigshot area is somewhat irrelevant, with all due respect, as a mortgage that accommodates a reasonably sized home on a piece of land in a fair enough area is around $6-7k a month (if you're being conservative)-which is about 30-35% of the $20,000 threshold..if you knock the ones who choose to buy steak and what not with food cards then by all means..
I'm of the opinion that if we as tax paying citizens are affected by government cutbacks in critical areas, why not remove government assistance across the board..how is it 'fair' that politicians, who are mostly well off to begin with and already pay no taxes, get government assistance to buy vehicles in the form of tax breaks and all their other perks..if we're adjusting government assistance why not set an example by adjusting it for ALL the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago and not just the tax paying ones??

[moses_boss12]

When they are determining means , I feel they should take into consideration major ,unavoidable expenses? eg mortgages and rent , food bill etc. A lot of middle income earners like civil servants might make Ten to twenty thousand dollars monthly ,but car payments and mortgages eat up a large chunk. They also have to feed their families and clothe them ,how much disposable income does the average family actually have?

Very good point indeed !!!!!

Indeed a good point..and the point about living in a bigshot area is somewhat irrelevant, with all due respect, as a mortgage that accommodates a reasonably sized home on a piece of land in a fair enough area is around $6-7k a month (if you're being conservative)-which is about 30-35% of the $20,000 threshold..if you knock the ones who choose to buy steak and what not with food cards then by all means..
I'm of the opinion that if we as tax paying citizens are affected by government cutbacks in critical areas, why not remove government assistance across the board..how is it 'fair' that politicians, who are mostly well off to begin with and already pay no taxes, get government assistance to buy vehicles in the form of tax breaks and all their other perks..if we're adjusting government assistance why not set an example by adjusting it for ALL the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago and not just the tax paying ones??

Great Points Here

[desifemlove]

but who is to say if a family is overspending by living it up with a big mortgage in a bigshot area
vs the family who living tight in poorer area

When they are determining means , I feel they should take into consideration major ,unavoidable expenses? eg mortgages and rent , food bill etc. A lot of middle income earners like civil servants might make Ten to twenty thousand dollars monthly ,but car payments and mortgages eat up a large chunk. They also have to feed their families and clothe them ,how much disposable income does the average family actually have?

Very good point indeed !!!!!

Then check all bank accounts, assets, and ting and see if they can afford it. dunno why people balling, if they have the funds pay for it.

[DVSTT]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

[pugboy]

And God face

When they are determining means , I feel they should take into consideration major ,unavoidable expenses? eg mortgages and rent , food bill etc. A lot of middle income earners like civil servants might make Ten to twenty thousand dollars monthly ,but car payments and mortgages eat up a large chunk. They also have to feed their families and clothe them ,how much disposable income does the average family actually have?

Very good point indeed !!!!!

Indeed a good point..and the point about living in a bigshot area is somewhat irrelevant, with all due respect, as a mortgage that accommodates a reasonably sized home on a piece of land in a fair enough area is around $6-7k a month (if you're being conservative)-which is about 30-35% of the $20,000 threshold..if you knock the ones who choose to buy steak and what not with food cards then by all means..
I'm of the opinion that if we as tax paying citizens are affected by government cutbacks in critical areas, why not remove government assistance across the board..how is it 'fair' that politicians, who are mostly well off to begin with and already pay no taxes, get government assistance to buy vehicles in the form of tax breaks and all their other perks..if we're adjusting government assistance why not set an example by adjusting it for ALL the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago and not just the tax paying ones??

Great Points Here

[desifemlove]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

[De Dragon]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

[drchaos]

To be in the middle class in society should be encouraged by providing incentives ...

If you only provide incentive's for the poor then that sends a message that it pays to stay this way.

The poor in this country should be given to bare minimum to survive but the opportunity to uplift themselves.

[pugboy]

At least two or three generations already living in that mentality

[desifemlove]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

[De Dragon]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

My stance is certainly not anti-education. It is simply discriminatory to prevent middle class and over-50 CITIZENS of the country from accessing programs for which their taxes pay. By all means crack down on the multiple accesses of programs, and the lazy, underperforming "students", but to virtually eliminate access to the the entire middle class is folly. It will save money as most of the tertiary education seekers are from this group, but we will certainly be poorer in the long run.

[greggle71]

Like I said greggle is a bit naive.

I could live with that, my expectation is that like any other system, whatever rules established will evolve based on how people respond, consumption, exclusion, exploitation etc.

My view is apart from the clarity around means testing for households with more than one child enrolled simultaneously I think the modifications are reasonable.

[drchaos]

Like I said greggle is a bit naive.

I could live with that, my expectation is that like any other system, whatever rules established will evolve based on how people respond, consumption, exclusion, exploitation etc.

My view is apart from the clarity around means testing for households with more than one child enrolled simultaneously I think the modifications are reasonable.

Stop living with it and pull your socks up god damn it ...

[desifemlove]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

My stance is certainly not anti-education. It is simply discriminatory to prevent middle class and over-50 CITIZENS of the country from accessing programs for which their taxes pay. By all means crack down on the multiple accesses of programs, and the lazy, underperforming "students", but to virtually eliminate access to the the entire middle class is folly. It will save money as most of the tertiary education seekers are from this group, but we will certainly be poorer in the long run.

people with no chronic diseases shouldn't pay taxes so others can get CDAP, ent? same logic, we all pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. this is just how i reason at least, GATE provides access to all who want education, since middle classes can afford tuition fees and the country better off if more people get GATE access. and more people in work getting jobs is better for the economy and society.

[drchaos]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

My stance is certainly not anti-education. It is simply discriminatory to prevent middle class and over-50 CITIZENS of the country from accessing programs for which their taxes pay. By all means crack down on the multiple accesses of programs, and the lazy, underperforming "students", but to virtually eliminate access to the the entire middle class is folly. It will save money as most of the tertiary education seekers are from this group, but we will certainly be poorer in the long run.

people with no chronic diseases shouldn't pay taxes so others can get CDAP, ent? same logic, we all pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. this is just how i reason at least, GATE provides access to all who want education, since middle classes can afford tuition fees and the country better off if more people get GATE access. and more people in work getting jobs is better for the economy and society.

Please don't talk about Chronic disease ...
Most of the chronic disease burden in this country is actually cause by lifestyle.
This is donkey logic ... People who do stupid stuff should pay not the ones who live healthy lives. My sizable tax contribution pays for your health care after you have eaten your way to diabetes and high blood pressure, smoked your way into emphysema and lung cancer, drank your way to liver cirrhosis and screwed your way to AIDS?

They should hike up taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, fast food (including doubles), foods with high amount of added sugars, swee drink and so on. That should fund CDAP!

[De Dragon]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

My stance is certainly not anti-education. It is simply discriminatory to prevent middle class and over-50 CITIZENS of the country from accessing programs for which their taxes pay. By all means crack down on the multiple accesses of programs, and the lazy, underperforming "students", but to virtually eliminate access to the the entire middle class is folly. It will save money as most of the tertiary education seekers are from this group, but we will certainly be poorer in the long run.

people with no chronic diseases shouldn't pay taxes so others can get CDAP, ent? same logic, we all pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. this is just how i reason at least, GATE provides access to all who want education, since middle classes can afford tuition fees and the country better off if more people get GATE access. and more people in work getting jobs is better for the economy and society.

Please don't talk about Chronic disease ...
Most of the chronic disease burden in this country is actually cause by lifestyle.
This is donkey logic ... People who do stupid stuff should pay not the ones who live healthy lives. My sizable tax contribution pays for your health care after you have eaten your way to diabetes and high blood pressure, smoked your way into emphysema and lung cancer, drank your way to liver cirrhosis and screwed your way to AIDS?

They should hike up taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, fast food (including doubles), foods with high amount of added sugars, swee drink and so on. That should fund CDAP!

It seems that a chronic disease would benefit him more than a tertiary level education(?) That is something that he can easily acquire . Also healthy people who do not smoke/drink/bull have been known to become diseased on occasion, so yes, tax unhealthy stuff, but don't eliminate affordable health care entirely.

[drchaos]

Nah never said to eliminate health care ... Just Fund CDAP from taxing stuff that is bad for you.
CDAP is just a part of the entire healthcare bill.

[desifemlove]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

My stance is certainly not anti-education. It is simply discriminatory to prevent middle class and over-50 CITIZENS of the country from accessing programs for which their taxes pay. By all means crack down on the multiple accesses of programs, and the lazy, underperforming "students", but to virtually eliminate access to the the entire middle class is folly. It will save money as most of the tertiary education seekers are from this group, but we will certainly be poorer in the long run.

people with no chronic diseases shouldn't pay taxes so others can get CDAP, ent? same logic, we all pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. this is just how i reason at least, GATE provides access to all who want education, since middle classes can afford tuition fees and the country better off if more people get GATE access. and more people in work getting jobs is better for the economy and society.

Please don't talk about Chronic disease ...
Most of the chronic disease burden in this country is actually cause by lifestyle.
This is donkey logic ... People who do stupid stuff should pay not the ones who live healthy lives. My sizable tax contribution pays for your health care after you have eaten your way to diabetes and high blood pressure, smoked your way into emphysema and lung cancer, drank your way to liver cirrhosis and screwed your way to AIDS?

They should hike up taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, fast food (including doubles), foods with high amount of added sugars, swee drink and so on. That should fund CDAP!

it sound logic, since it's a fact. all healthcare is based people paying in. but then be unintelligent, uninformed, claim yuh smart and have education, and not understand the economic realities behind the situation.

[desifemlove]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

My stance is certainly not anti-education. It is simply discriminatory to prevent middle class and over-50 CITIZENS of the country from accessing programs for which their taxes pay. By all means crack down on the multiple accesses of programs, and the lazy, underperforming "students", but to virtually eliminate access to the the entire middle class is folly. It will save money as most of the tertiary education seekers are from this group, but we will certainly be poorer in the long run.

people with no chronic diseases shouldn't pay taxes so others can get CDAP, ent? same logic, we all pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. this is just how i reason at least, GATE provides access to all who want education, since middle classes can afford tuition fees and the country better off if more people get GATE access. and more people in work getting jobs is better for the economy and society.

Please don't talk about Chronic disease ...
Most of the chronic disease burden in this country is actually cause by lifestyle.
This is donkey logic ... People who do stupid stuff should pay not the ones who live healthy lives. My sizable tax contribution pays for your health care after you have eaten your way to diabetes and high blood pressure, smoked your way into emphysema and lung cancer, drank your way to liver cirrhosis and screwed your way to AIDS?

They should hike up taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, fast food (including doubles), foods with high amount of added sugars, swee drink and so on. That should fund CDAP!

It seems that a chronic disease would benefit him more than a tertiary level education(?) That is something that he can easily acquire . Also healthy people who do not smoke/drink/bull have been known to become diseased on occasion, so yes, tax unhealthy stuff, but don't eliminate affordable health care entirely.

So then you accept your taxes go for things you have no part in.....that's what having a tax and welfare...nay society at the widest is all about. the same logic, as in funding things you have no part in can apply to GATE. do you care about state funding of churches if you're not Christian, or mandirs if you're not Hindu?

[drchaos]

This new model is just going to shaft the middle class.
At least they're consistent in doing this.

cos you're rich and lil poor boy in de ghetto has no right to an education, eh?

Are you an ass? Equality isn't the exclusive domain of the poor.

haha...i don't think you comprehend the issues at hand here....

do you realise what GATE is for? do you realise why countries need a high degree of educated people? Do you realise that education is a factor in life success for many people?

can you explain through any economic means why it's unfair for a richer not to have a bigger burden? or why means tests are evil? Can you explain why anybody studying and like earning money is wrong, or not in the spirit of funded education?

My stance is certainly not anti-education. It is simply discriminatory to prevent middle class and over-50 CITIZENS of the country from accessing programs for which their taxes pay. By all means crack down on the multiple accesses of programs, and the lazy, underperforming "students", but to virtually eliminate access to the the entire middle class is folly. It will save money as most of the tertiary education seekers are from this group, but we will certainly be poorer in the long run.

people with no chronic diseases shouldn't pay taxes so others can get CDAP, ent? same logic, we all pay taxes for the benefit of the whole. this is just how i reason at least, GATE provides access to all who want education, since middle classes can afford tuition fees and the country better off if more people get GATE access. and more people in work getting jobs is better for the economy and society.

Please don't talk about Chronic disease ...
Most of the chronic disease burden in this country is actually cause by lifestyle.
This is donkey logic ... People who do stupid stuff should pay not the ones who live healthy lives. My sizable tax contribution pays for your health care after you have eaten your way to diabetes and high blood pressure, smoked your way into emphysema and lung cancer, drank your way to liver cirrhosis and screwed your way to AIDS?

They should hike up taxes on cigarettes, alcohol, fast food (including doubles), foods with high amount of added sugars, swee drink and so on. That should fund CDAP!

it sound logic, since it's a fact. all healthcare is based people paying in. but then be unintelligent, uninformed, claim yuh smart and have education, and not understand the economic realities behind the situation.

You have never left Trinidad have you?
Das ok ... maybe one day.

[toyolink]

After all is said, what has now happened is that more costs would be borne by students and/or their families and there will have to be efforts by these individuals to 'increase' their financial capacity.
The question now becomes......Who has the ability to increase income and by what means?
If education is a means of breaking the circle of poverty the ramifications are known.
This conversation is where in sociology, society class differentials raises ugly prospects.