2015/2016 Budget - Trinidad & Tobago

[Chimera]

pretty sure ive seen up to 95 ron available at many gas stations in usa

although they do have cheap gas starting at 87 ron

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Is premium currently subsidized as well?

Imbert said in Opposition that we were overpaying, however in the budget he said the govt is paying 50% of Super prices. So by estimation premium is being subsidized by a lil bit.

This is VERY shady... according to Imbert the real price of Super is $5.40 liter in the US they paying $3.60 TT$ per litre (regular) retail

Somehow the government adds VAT in calculating the cost of Gasoline... now the last time I checked the Government didn't have to pay VAT to itself???

Even if Premium, Super and Diesel are sold to the population at cost price (zero subsidy) and THEN the government decides to charge VAT (a 12.5% profit) they are in breech of the Petroleum Act meant to prevent them from profiting by selling the peoples' resources back to them.

TT Super is a high octane than most US gasoline. It is unlikely to find gas in the US at a higher octane than 91. Plus the US consuming the most gasoline in the world, by economies of scale their production cost and distribution is cheaper than TT.

The US uses a different octane rating system to Trinidad. 91 there is our 95. 87 there is our Super 92. They also have gasoline there with octane higher than our premium's 95.

[ingalook]

Is premium currently subsidized as well?

Imbert said in Opposition that we were overpaying, however in the budget he said the govt is paying 50% of Super prices. So by estimation premium is being subsidized by a lil bit.

This is VERY shady... according to Imbert the real price of Super is $5.40 liter in the US they paying $3.60 TT$ per litre (regular) retail

Somehow the government adds VAT in calculating the cost of Gasoline... now the last time I checked the Government didn't have to pay VAT to itself???

Even if Premium, Super and Diesel are sold to the population at cost price (zero subsidy) and THEN the government decides to charge VAT (a 12.5% profit) they are in breech of the Petroleum Act meant to prevent them from profiting by selling the peoples' resources back to them.

TT Super is a high octane than most US gasoline. It is unlikely to find gas in the US at a higher octane than 91. Plus the US consuming the most gasoline in the world, by economies of scale their production cost and distribution is cheaper than TT.

First man on Tuner I've ever hear boast about how high our octane is... kinda surreal

Even if this is true, you pointed out the production and distribution cost - this is something that needs to be addressed, we are an Oil producing country, its kinda what we do - we should be better at it.

[Redman]

if in the end there is no fuel subsidizing, where does the money come from to pay NP overhead costs etc ?

so what if govt one day decides to make it a true free market and allow gas station owners
to make whatever profit they want, ie let them add on top of the unsubsidized price ?

Unipet and NP make a whole sale margin on fuel they sell.

Also NP bunkers internationally and has gas stations and a lubricant product line

[redmanjp]

i see a tweet on CNC3 website regarding a online shopping tax

why is this necessary? We already paying duty + VAT

or is it that local businesses can no longer price gouge unless another tax is introduced

[cherrypopper]

Yup something about online shopping being a drain on the foreign exchange. .. hmm

[DVSTT]

i see a tweet on CNC3 website regarding a online shopping tax

why is this necessary? We already paying duty + VAT

or is it that local businesses can no longer price gouge unless another tax is introduced

That's ludacris.

[Numb3r4]

^^ What minister Imbert was alluding to was that Trinbagonians spend a large sum of US currency when shopping online, to curb this loss of currency a tax could be placed on online shopping however this was proven to be very difficult.

[Habit7]

Is premium currently subsidized as well?

Imbert said in Opposition that we were overpaying, however in the budget he said the govt is paying 50% of Super prices. So by estimation premium is being subsidized by a lil bit.

This is VERY shady... according to Imbert the real price of Super is $5.40 liter in the US they paying $3.60 TT$ per litre (regular) retail

Somehow the government adds VAT in calculating the cost of Gasoline... now the last time I checked the Government didn't have to pay VAT to itself???

Even if Premium, Super and Diesel are sold to the population at cost price (zero subsidy) and THEN the government decides to charge VAT (a 12.5% profit) they are in breech of the Petroleum Act meant to prevent them from profiting by selling the peoples' resources back to them.

TT Super is a high octane than most US gasoline. It is unlikely to find gas in the US at a higher octane than 91. Plus the US consuming the most gasoline in the world, by economies of scale their production cost and distribution is cheaper than TT.

The US uses a different octane rating system to Trinidad. 91 there is our 95. 87 there is our Super 92. They also have gasoline there with octane higher than our premium's 95.

I stand corrected.

[Cantmis]

i see a tweet on CNC3 website regarding a online shopping tax

why is this necessary? We already paying duty + VAT

or is it that local businesses can no longer price gouge unless another tax is introduced

That's ludacris.

no this is Ludacris

[The_Honourable]

^^ What minister Imbert was alluding to was that Trinbagonians spend a large sum of US currency when shopping online, to curb this loss of currency a tax could be placed on online shopping however this was proven to be very difficult.

Yep. I wonder what the proposals were?

Imbert eyeing tax on online shopping*

THE TAXING of online shopping is being considered by the Government, Finance Minister Colm Imbert has said.

Imbert said online shopping is an “area of tremendous leakage” of this country’s foreign exchange.
He made the statements as he delivered the feature address at the Trinidad and Tobago Chamber of Industry and Commerce’s annual post-budget analysis at Hyatt Regency, Wrightson Road, Port of Spain, yesterday.

Imbert said he received many proposals that Government should put a tax on online shopping. However, he did not implement the tax because it is “simply too complicated”.

“We do know that credit card purchases are a first call on our foreign exchange. The banks automatically honour any credit card purchase that is made for online shopping and it is always in a foreign currency. So it is an area of tremendous leakage of foreign exchange, but it is not simple and it is something we will be studying over the next year. But we won’t be rushing to put any tax on online shopping at this point in time because it is simply too complicated,” Imbert said.

He said the Government will also be approaching major banks in China to house their regional headquarters in this country’s International Financial Centre on Wrightson Road.

[pete]

The main problem with the online shopping is in many instances the correct duty and VAT are not charged on items so the country loses three times. First large amounts of foreign exchange are sucked into credit card transactions, second we are losing out on the correct revenue from duties and third it's cutting out the middle man making an honest living.

How would other people feel if their jobs were outsourced? In many cases the markup locally is ridiculous I admit which has driven people to ordering on Amazon etc but people do need to make $ to live.

To start they could request that customs officers do full examination on all goods coming in for these skybox companies and make sure the invoice values match the goods and its all correct. At least then the country would benefit from the taxes it's supposed to. This might also add to the time it takes to get the goods so might encourage people to buy from local suppliers who should have reasonable markups on their products.

[sMASH]

Let me say this
I wanted to buy some thermal paste. Found it selling up westmorings side. I couldn't make the time to go up. I contacted the seller to ask if he would mail it and I deposit the money in his account, as I had done that already with another seller. He refused the option.
I found the item online and had it within a week, and actually cost less what the local seller was selling it for.

If they so want to reduce online purchases they could just increase the charges. But whichever option is the best value for money, I will take. I don't earn a minister's salary, but I contribute towards it.

Protectionism is not a good way to foster competitiveness.

This 'sweet TnT ' patriotic nostalgia would transform TnT to economic dinosaurs.

[Twin Isle Cars n' Parts]

Let me say this
I wanted to buy some thermal paste. Found it selling up westmorings side. I couldn't make the time to go up. I contacted the seller to ask if he would mail it and I deposit the money in his account, as I had done that already with another seller. He refused the option.
I found the item online and had it within a week, and actually cost less what the local seller was selling it for.

If they so want to reduce online purchases they could just increase the charges. But whichever option is the best value for money, I will take. I don't earn a minister's salary, but I contribute towards it.

Protectionism is not a good way to foster competitiveness.

This 'sweet TnT ' patriotic nostalgia would transform TnT to economic dinosaurs.

Point...!!!

Not to mention non freedom of choice...
So we as consumers, must continue to pay for goods & services at 100% mark up or more in some instances & have no choice...!!!

Brother Imbert, though I can understand your rationale, you can take that proposed added online purchase tax thought and swipe it up yr rectum...

[sMASH]

Improving the efficiency of the tax collection mechanisms is an excellent strategy to improve cashflow.

However, heavily basing your expenditure on an overly optimistic initial improvement is insane.

No way imbert could meet those collection projections for this fiscal year. I'm positive he will be back to the income drawing board soon enough.

People should be a little concerned about this.

March 2016

[jhonnieblue]

Steups...if he touch that eh...cause I not wasting any time buying the crap in this country


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[skylinechild]

The main problem with the online shopping is in many instances the correct duty and VAT are not charged on items so the country loses three times. First large amounts of foreign exchange are sucked into credit card transactions, second we are losing out on the correct revenue from duties and third it's cutting out the middle man making an honest living.

How would other people feel if their jobs were outsourced? In many cases the markup locally is ridiculous I admit which has driven people to ordering on Amazon etc but people do need to make $ to live.

To start they could request that customs officers do full examination on all goods coming in for these skybox companies and make sure the invoice values match the goods and its all correct. At least then the country would benefit from the taxes it's supposed to. This might also add to the time it takes to get the goods so might encourage people to buy from local suppliers who should have reasonable markups on their products.

agree with you but to a certain point.
if you want to encourage ppl to buy locally we first must examine why ppl dont shop locally- why we choose to buy online.

1. item is available - instead of going to to store to hear - "dais all we have" - the take it or leave it mentality - consumers are given a wider range of products - and not jus "dais what we does carry"

2. better quality online - instead of buying a cheap item that will fail a more expensive model / brand will last longer or perform better

3. price gouging - local "dealers" for international brands use this as a trade gimmick and sell at whatever price they want to cause they is the "authorized dealer"

4. cost factor - building on all of the above points -is the cost factor. why must i pay XYZ amt for any part where in some cases i can go online source the genuine item and get it for $500-$1000 cheaper..??

you cannot justify the markup for a brick and mortar store as being $1000 when the item only costin $200....(profit of $800) so if they sell lets say 25 of this item per month thats 20K. mind you the store sell other items as well not just this one item so they makin profits on other items sold.
you cannot justify a high price by saying overhead bills like electricity and employee wages and supplier costs an such.

5. attitude of local business men - some companies have good ethics some dont. Even some P.S here on tuner have good practices and some cant even ans a simple pm.

i once made a mistake by buyin the wrong rack end for my car...took it back 6 mths later...the guy checked it an gave me the correct part. zero questions -some places wont even do that. guess where i go now for parts.??

i would love to walk in a store and buy locally and help support the economy but when you put those 5 things to ANY consumer regardless of the product in question....online always wins.

the local businesses / middle man cannot claim he suffering losses when in truth and reality he driving vigo / prado and rest of us hav tiidas...

[pete]

Fully agree WRT price gouging. I've brought in watches off Amazon that were around 90US, landed for 850TT that I saw being sold for 1500 in the mall. If it was say $1000 I might have been willing to buy and save the hassle and get it one time but that kinda markup.. nah.

Yes there is a cost of having items in stock but they should at least try to cut the margin and possibly sell much more.

[Trinispougla]

Actually, certain items have no duties or importation fees. Like plenty of my class mates making a killing getting books online because there is no additional cost attached to it and I'm ordering two rugby jersey's and you don't have to pay importation or duties. The only reason this could be necessary is because of the bacchanal that haunted the central bank for the last couple of years. I have been buying online for years and for-ex never was a problem

[Redman]

The main problem with the online shopping is in many instances the correct duty and VAT are not charged on items so the country loses three times. First large amounts of foreign exchange are sucked into credit card transactions, second we are losing out on the correct revenue from duties and third it's cutting out the middle man making an honest living.

How would other people feel if their jobs were outsourced? In many cases the markup locally is ridiculous I admit which has driven people to ordering on Amazon etc but people do need to make $ to live.

To start they could request that customs officers do full examination on all goods coming in for these skybox companies and make sure the invoice values match the goods and its all correct. At least then the country would benefit from the taxes it's supposed to. This might also add to the time it takes to get the goods so might encourage people to buy from local suppliers who should have reasonable markups on their products.

I hope the same business don't mind the full searches and proper valuation on THEIR goods...MOST (edit) of them under invoicing their containers.

Of course the issue of knock offs,seconds and inferior quality is real

[pete]

As an importer I know my company does not undervalue anything that we bring into this country. Say "most" if you want but not "all".

[bluesclues]

i see a tweet on CNC3 website regarding a online shopping tax

why is this necessary? We already paying duty + VAT

or is it that local businesses can no longer price gouge unless another tax is introduced

the online shopping tax wont change much of anything that local businesses hoping for in my view. what it will do is send more money directly to the treasury without passing through the middleman. compensating for the loss in circulatory revenues. end of the day, businesses will also have to pay the tax to import and then still have to place their markup so things will be even MORE expensive through the middleman. meaning, people STILL wont buy from local business at a higher price since direct importing will still incur more savings.

the issue that has to be addressed if people are to work with the government on this one isnt by asking people to take rape to save the country. its in reducing the 10x price of everything consumers pay from local business and making that price more reasonable and closer to the actual USD price. 7-8x. then it wont matter much because the savings made from purchasing online and waiting 2 weeks when u can buy local immediately will be negligible. if you add a tax you actually raise price but increase savings and thus provide a greater incentive for more people to join the online shopping crew.

price have to reduce. not increase.

[Lance]

The level of price gouging is epic.

When people compare "own imported" prices to local retailers they tend to use the the website price as the gauge.

The fact is, the local dealers are(should) (be) paying lower prices as part of a wholesale/dealer schedule. Most manufacturers also offer even better rates for non-domestic bulk buyers to help offset the additional transaction cost.

I don't expect you to match this online price since these websites have certain scale economies and bargaining power. But come on man, If you cant come within a reasonable range then you should not be in business.

The wave of online buying has mellowed the markup of these local resellers but there is still room for more adjustment. let the markets work.

[bluesclues]

The level of price gouging is epic.

When people compare "own imported" prices to local retailers they tend to use the the website price as the gauge.

The fact is, the local dealers are(should) (be) paying lower prices as part of a wholesale/dealer schedule. Most manufacturers also offer even better rates for non-domestic bulk buyers to help offset the additional transaction cost.

I don't expect you to match this online price since these websites have certain scale economies and bargaining power. But come on man, If you cant come within a reasonable range then you should not be in business.

The wave of online buying has mellowed the markup of these local resellers but there is still room for more adjustment. let the markets work.

this is so true. i actually for a moment forgot that they pay even less as resseller importers when they purchase goods from foreign companies to sell in trinidad. which does put the price gouging into proper perspective.

local business trying to pull one off on the minister. i would advise him dont touch this one with a 10 foot pole.

i totally agree. let the free market work. the alternative is that all importing business go out of business when we simply stop buying. yeah.. great on paper. but is that what we really want when we defeat the purpose and those companies go out of business anyway? there is something vindictive about asking the minister to address the issue from a online shopping tax point of view. also something draconian.

jump high or jump low. i am not going to pay $2000 for something i can get online for 600 or 1200ttd. its just not going to happen. and i think it will be the same for most people. especially those who already use online shopping for fresh, non-dryrot goods.

[skylinechild]

Fully agree WRT price gouging. I've brought in watches off Amazon that were around 90US, landed for 850TT that I saw being sold for 1500 in the mall. If it was say $1000 I might have been willing to buy and save the hassle and get it one time but that kinda markup.. nah.

Yes there is a cost of having items in stock but they should at least try to cut the margin and possibly sell much more.

the cost involved in having stock is upfront.... once a company is able to market its good the stock will be bought according to the demand of it.

say for example... tyres...why is it soo hard to get proper tyres? everywhere u go is roadstone flywall hifly nexen hirada etc. a setta rubbish and EVERYONE has it.

ppl who do import tyres buy the cheapest of the cheap, and then want to call $550 and up.

ppl who have the regular brands dunlop hankook, firestone etc they bring the cheapest model from those brands.....and want to call over $800 each..??

ppl want to bring no name brands and crap quality and want to buss price and ppl who bring quality tyres...also want to call a premuim despite the base model trye costing almost the same as the crap tyre...

so no matter which way- youre screwed.

we need to have bureau of standards look into this as importers cant keep importing rubbish and then turn around and say "dais all we hav".

[White CZ4A]

Is premium currently subsidized as well?

Imbert said in Opposition that we were overpaying, however in the budget he said the govt is paying 50% of Super prices. So by estimation premium is being subsidized by a lil bit.

This is VERY shady... according to Imbert the real price of Super is $5.40 liter in the US they paying $3.60 TT$ per litre (regular) retail

Somehow the government adds VAT in calculating the cost of Gasoline... now the last time I checked the Government didn't have to pay VAT to itself???

Even if Premium, Super and Diesel are sold to the population at cost price (zero subsidy) and THEN the government decides to charge VAT (a 12.5% profit) they are in breech of the Petroleum Act meant to prevent them from profiting by selling the peoples' resources back to them.

TT Super is a high octane than most US gasoline. It is unlikely to find gas in the US at a higher octane than 91. Plus the US consuming the most gasoline in the world, by economies of scale their production cost and distribution is cheaper than TT.

First man on Tuner I've ever hear boast about how high our octane is... kinda surreal

Even if this is true, you pointed out the production and distribution cost - this is something that needs to be addressed, we are an Oil producing country, its kinda what we do - we should be better at it.

Not sure how they are rated. But yes most pumps in the USA have 89,91 and 93 as the options.

[sMASH]

I did not want to say it, but glad someone else did; let the market determine the pricing, let the demand regulate the supply.


When kiss bread went up recently, I did not know until I saw the online rocus. Why? I stopped buying a while before. So even before I Wwsnt not subjecting myself to their price gouging.


Most things in this budget I agree with and understand the intention, and understand the climate. But u can't tax ur way out if recession.
But what they are doing is effectively recovering monies they are supposed to be collecting anyways, so is not much to beat up about there.



I personally, would have done same thing with the fuel subsidy. Stage the removal of the subsidy. Let the supply / demand determine pricing. Also bring back prploperty tax... But in a fair form, not the Patrick manning dig out Yuh eye manner.

I would have left VAT where it is and left the business levy where it is. Is too much too suddenly. Next budget is when we can examine VAT and levy .




What I believe is never addressed well is praedial larceney.
U can set up how many patrols, unless is continuous 24/7/365 it not going to be as effective as they expect with the monies invested.

What they should do is allow farmers to live ON their land. This way they can monitor theory crops immediately and call the relevant authority immediately.
Instead of depending on the patrol happening to pass the same time people thieving the crops.

Farmers are already given a lot of incentives to sow and reap. THe major problem is the issue of other people reaping ur crops before u.

[16 cycles]

there is alot of cost for running a brick and mortar store that are hard to compete with online shopping and pricing scheme reflects that .e,g,

-green tax
-cott
-rent
-staff
-cleaning / regular maintenance
-rental of linx / credit card machines
-vendor pays part of transactions for cc purchases - some stores don't use c.cards
-customs / duties / transport / stocking /stock keeping


the biggest factor being rent - especially if in a mall ....
if one builds an outlet, one needs to recover that investment and it would be reflected in the pricing scheme as well...



in essence - shopping online would almost always be cheaper...

[tiger balm]

We know there will always be a markup. I don't think we have a problem paying a markup and I think many people would prefer to buy locally. However, even when you consider rent, staff etc. (which I do sometimes) the markups we see are highly questionable and seem to be more advantageous.

When you shop around locally it gets even more apparent. Within one mall, three different stores have noteably different prices. Talking at least $40-$50 difference, not a few dollars.

We also have to remember, the prices we see on Amazon etc. already have a markup! They are not being sold at wholesale prices. So....

The PNM are talking about consultation, I hope they consult the general public on this before any decision is made

[Lance]

there is alot of cost for running a brick and mortar store that are hard to compete with online shopping and pricing scheme reflects that .e,g,

-green tax
-cott
-rent
-staff
-cleaning / regular maintenance
-rental of linx / credit card machines
-vendor pays part of transactions for cc purchases - some stores don't use c.cards
-customs / duties / transport / stocking /stock keeping


the biggest factor being rent - especially if in a mall ....
if one builds an outlet, one needs to recover that investment and it would be reflected in the pricing scheme as well...



in essence - shopping online would almost always be cheaper...

Aside from taxes, These costs are undertaken by the entrepreneur because he/she foresees an appropriate return for their investment. Trinidad lacks a proper online platform so one may argue that they have no choice but to do B&M operations. In any event, it might be more fruitful for these sellers to lobby the government to setup the right institutional and financial framework to facilitate local e-commerce rather than lobbying for protectionist measures.

Also, online sales is not a cost less transaction either (for the seller). Most of us purchase via amazon or ebay. Aside from their own overheads, the sellers that use these platforms have to pay a chunk of their sales to amazon/ebay. For instance, ebay takes 10% of your sale (on average) and paypal deducts another 3%.

A more interesting question would be to ask whether the online sellers operate on a similar margin as these B&M stores. Perhaps latter needs to simply needs to adjust their definition of "appropriate return".