Inverter AC Units and Electricity Bill

[pugboy]

anybody ever considered how much electricity their water pump burns also ?
there are devices which you can put which will reduce the start/stop cycling to
save electricity and extend life of pump and pressure tank - cycle stop valves

[megadoc1]

I was hoping to find more info on inverter AC units on trinituner than what currently exists. Guess it's time to wake up ah ched.
my 2 cents is that I thought the MAIN reason for installing an inverter unit is because of how they function. I have a number of temperature measuring devices and I can assure you that regardless of what temperature you set a regular split unit to it will NEVER EVER cool the room to the set temperature because it's simply incapable of doing that by design. Inverter units can ACTUALLY hit a selected room temperature target because from what i've read they vary the amount of cooling via fan and compressor speed without ever allowing the room to heat back up as normal split units do during the compressor "off cycle".
Can anyone confirm this who actually owns one? Better yet someone who has an innovair inverter since that's the type i'm considering installing!

both units will hit selected temperature, in case of the regular unit its either fully on or fully off,if on it would pull down to your required setting because its at maximum all the time . In contrast , the inverter type ac system varies the speed of its motor according to its load so it starts off at maximum like the regular ac and then slows down as the temperature drops saving you energy so basically the regular unit will get there first along with the noisy start/stopping cycles that follows, to say that the regular unit is incapable by design to come down to a preset temperature is error

Yes I've used wikipedia before and I get it... makes you feel as if you actually know stuff BUT... uh you clearly don't have an inverter ac unit installed nor do you understand how regular split units really work. I am ONLY interested in feedback from people who OWN INVERTERS. No one else needs to try to explain how they think it works to me. I already know how it works. I just want the opinion of someone who installed it and has hands on personal experience with them. thank youuuuuuuuuu!

I was just showing you your error ,instead off just learning something you go on to assume I know nothing of ac systems,I do install systems from time to time, that should be enough for you?
anyways before the advent of this inverter system ,I once proposed to build a system that works almost bleh...well it would involved two compressors, one of the compressors being way undersized but only kicks in when things cooled down and then switching off the bigger compressor only to be turned back on when load increases saving some energy it was a crude set up anyways, lots of work and headache.... but then again you said I didn't know how it works ,ha ha and windows 95 wasn't even out yet ,if I only had google back then eh

[megadoc1]

anybody ever considered how much electricity their water pump burns also ?
there are devices which you can put which will reduce the start/stop cycling to
save electricity and extend life of pump and pressure tank - cycle stop valves

try installing a bigger pressure tank and adjust the pump to suit

[TESTED performance]

I was just showing you your error ,instead off just learning something you go on to assume I know nothing of ac systems,I do install systems from time to time, that should be enough for you?

Kind sir, allow me to be frank with you... You are a fool. Just because you are physically capable of installing and operating an ac system doesn't automatically imply that you know how they REALLY WORK. By that same logic being able to install a TV antenna should mean that you understand how broadcast engineering really works, or being able to drive a car means that you understand how those really work too.

Stop making yourself look foolish. We both know that you have no degree qualification in the field of physics or electronics or anything even remotely related to it (it shows) and you simply have a layman's hands on knowledge of standard air conditioning equipment and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Instead of trying to seem impressive and publicizing your lack of inventive genius, how about you accept your limitations and just admit that you don't have any inverter air conditioning units installed at your residence or office and you are therefore unable to offer any meaningful contribution to the question that I asked?

[Redman]

For someone who comes on a public forum and requests information you sure have a funny way of enlisting support.

Frankly speaking of course

[TESTED performance]

anybody ever considered how much electricity their water pump burns also ?
there are devices which you can put which will reduce the start/stop cycling to
save electricity and extend life of pump and pressure tank - cycle stop valves

This is interesting. Should there be a separate thread to discuss this though? I don't want to pollute the original inverter ac thread posting about pumps. Either way your average 1/2 hp water pump may utilize more current than a 12,000 BTU split ac unit. I'm not sure many people understand that. Plus the startup current draw is almost double. My waterpump uses 6 amps continuous and spikes to about 10amps on startup. Smarthead my @$$. Eh nothing smart happening there. If you have a leaky/drippy tap or or taps or even a lazy toilet tank shutoff valve your lightbill is going to be very unpleasant each month if you have a smarthead pump because they cycle on and off like a child playing with a light switch whenever there is a leaking tap.

[megadoc1]

I was just showing you your error ,instead off just learning something you go on to assume I know nothing of ac systems,I do install systems from time to time, that should be enough for you?

Kind sir, allow me to be frank with you... You are a fool. Just because you are physically capable of installing and operating an ac system doesn't automatically imply that you know how they REALLY WORK.

point taken seems like wiki was all one needed to read

By that same logic being able to install a TV antenna should mean that you understand how broadcast engineering really works

agreed! but actually, I am a radio Amateur and have extensive knowledge of how radio waves and transmissions works and I am quite capable of building the antennas myself ,with the advent of the internet I have found tools that improved my capabilities using software to make even more complex antennas to any wavelength I so desire

or being able to drive a car means that you understand how those really work too.

I am also a mechanic with lots of knowledge gathered over the years from the ford cortina to VAG and with the advent of the internet I have found tools that improved my capabilities using software and online manuals if you look around you might find some interesting things I have done on here

Stop making yourself look foolish. We both know that you have no degree qualification in the field of physics or electronics or anything even remotely related to it (it shows)

you are quite correct sir about not having a degree but you really feel that makes me foolish? I know you did not come on tuner hoping to find someone with a degree to give an opinion on the inverter type AC ..so what changed? all I did was show you that you were wrong about the conventional AC system not being able to bring a room down to selected temperature,u think the inverter type is some type of magical device but it isn't , its just a variable speed motor that's more "manageable" than the conventional motor which takes a lot to get going power wise

you simply have a layman's hands on knowledge of standard air conditioning equipment and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Instead of trying to seem impressive and publicizing your lack of inventive genius, how about you accept your limitations and just admit that you don't have any inverter air conditioning units installed at your residence or office and you are therefore unable to offer any meaningful contribution to the question that I asked?

fella I realize that you think someone with the unit (the end user) will be more knowledgeable than the installer /repairman/builder (yes I can put together a unit myself refrigerant system and electronic system ) so there no sense taking this further with you

I did not come on here to boast ,you don't know my abilities yet think I am foolish? ..oh well... BTW in 2006 the same thing was said of me on here, when folks thought that leaving a door open used to damage the ac unit , I wont hold it against you

[TESTED performance]

For someone who comes on a public forum and requests information you sure have a funny way of enlisting support.

Frankly speaking of course

I value my time and I don't suffer fools. Some people will be able to relate to those things and some won't. The thread is about inverter air conditioning. The information that was requested by me is also about inverter air conditioning. Again (frankly speaking of course) I do not care who gets offended when I don't show appreciation for irrelevant information contributed, which apart from being irrelevant is also absolutely incorrect.

[megadoc1]

This is interesting. Should there be a separate thread to discuss this though? I don't want to pollute the original inverter ac thread posting about pumps. Either way your average 1/2 hp water pump may utilize more current than a 12,000 BTU split ac unit. I'm not sure many people understand that. Plus the startup current draw is almost double. My waterpump uses 6 amps continuous and spikes to about 10amps on startup.

that's because you are not correct 1 HP=750 watts so half of that is 1/2 HP=375 watts which is no way more than the AC which uses anything over 1HP motors and we are yet include the fans an other electronics (1100 watts minimum)even if you try to add the starting amperage of the water pump you will need to add the LRA for the ac also but don't mind me I must be don't even have water by me far less for a water pump

Smarthead my @$$. Eh nothing smart happening there. If you have a leaky/drippy tap or or taps or even a lazy toilet tank shutoff valve your lightbill is going to be very unpleasant each month if you have a smarthead pump because they cycle on and off like a child playing with a light switch whenever there is a leaking tap.

the only difference between the smart head and the conventional pressure switch is that , there is no need for a pressure tank but your bill suffers because of the constant starting load of the motor but if you add the pressure tank to the system with the smart head the motor will run longer storing up more water according to the size of the pressure tank which turns out to be less on off cycles ( you save more energy with a longer running motor stop and start time) and more too if yuh fix the leaks

[TESTED performance]

I... Just... Can't.
This is why society should do whatever we can to ensure that there are fewer high school dropouts.
I can't cope with this much ignorance. It's just breathtaking. I'm out. Best wishes.

[megadoc1]

hope you not wrong again with someone being a high school drop out ..lol
even if so,it does not change the fact that your original statements are wrong

[kripplerz]

I have a 24000btu Panasonic payed 10k for it, it's about 5 yrs now I bought it serviced 3 times and the thing working like oil. Still quiet very cold, usually set at 24degC. Electricity bill went up approx $100.00. Great unit if u can afford one. I want to buy another one but I was told they only have samsung and they said the samsung is better. Samsung is 11500 and the wifi one is about 13xxx.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

anybody ever considered how much electricity their water pump burns also ?
there are devices which you can put which will reduce the start/stop cycling to
save electricity and extend life of pump and pressure tank - cycle stop valves

This is interesting. Should there be a separate thread to discuss this though? I don't want to pollute the original inverter ac thread posting about pumps. Either way your average 1/2 hp water pump may utilize more current than a 12,000 BTU split ac unit. I'm not sure many people understand that. Plus the startup current draw is almost double. My waterpump uses 6 amps continuous and spikes to about 10amps on startup. Smarthead my @$$. Eh nothing smart happening there. If you have a leaky/drippy tap or or taps or even a lazy toilet tank shutoff valve your lightbill is going to be very unpleasant each month if you have a smarthead pump because they cycle on and off like a child playing with a light switch whenever there is a leaking tap.

A 12K BTU AC uses $350 TT in a 12x12 room if you run it 24/7 cold at 22 degrees C and well T&TEC bill comes what every 2 months?

An inverter would run at half that current. Thats not bad for 1350 watts which is what a normal AC uses, I would assume a inverter is about 700 watts for 12K?

Truth be told it may not measure up to this I doubt the actual rated watts on a inverter is 700 for a 12K.

Inverter AC is more about saving the planet. No matter how you add it up, by the time that AC pays for itself it will reach the end of its life. Kinda like electric cars, cheap to charge the batter but the battery is probably like what $40,000 TT? The real winner is the planet, not really the buyer looking to save money.

[TESTED performance]

well I actually didn't think about the "saving the planet" aspect cause honestly I don't think we're really doing that until we get solar powered air conditioning. I've had a chunlan ac unit, peake ac units, LG ac units, Innovair vexus/oasis units, katashi units... It's always the same issue that I have. They have always made the rooms either too cold while running or not cool enough during the compressor off cycle. I've already decided to just take the plunge with the inverters and see if they can solve that problem. That's my biggest reason for wanting to try the inverters, the light bill and planet are secondary.

[megadoc1]

well I actually didn't think about the "saving the planet" aspect cause honestly I don't think we're really doing that until we get solar powered air conditioning. I've had a chunlan ac unit, peake ac units, LG ac units, Innovair vexus/oasis units, katashi units... It's always the same issue that I have. They have always made the rooms either too cold while running or not cool enough during the compressor off cycle. I've already decided to just take the plunge with the inverters and see if they can solve that problem. That's my biggest reason for wanting to try the inverters, the light bill and planet are secondary.

your problem here is that your ac is over sized for the environment that you are using it in so there is no real conditioning going on ,I see why you think the inverter type may help you out ...you may be on to something here

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

anybody ever considered how much electricity their water pump burns also ?
there are devices which you can put which will reduce the start/stop cycling to
save electricity and extend life of pump and pressure tank - cycle stop valves

I recently put a 15amp smart plug that works with Alexa and HomeKit on my 1/2 hp goulds pump and I can set it to come on at 5am and turn off at 10pm, or when nobody is home, or tell Alexa or Siri to turn on or off the pump.
Doubt I'll see any major light bill change soon but maybe over time as the pump here isn't needed all the time.

Meross smart plug that works with Alexa, Google Home and Apple HomeKit
https://amzn.to/42a16wY

Meross smart plug that works with Alexa and Google Home
https://amzn.to/3B4Tgci

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I have a 24000btu Panasonic payed 10k for it, it's about 5 yrs now I bought it serviced 3 times and the thing working like oil. Still quiet very cold, usually set at 24degC. Electricity bill went up approx $100.00. Great unit if u can afford one. I want to buy another one but I was told they only have samsung and they said the samsung is better. Samsung is 11500 and the wifi one is about 13xxx.

Also bought a Panasonic 240000btu and it's always been stress.
When it works it works great but there's always an issue with it every few months even with regular cleaning

[nervewrecker]

anybody ever considered how much electricity their water pump burns also ?
there are devices which you can put which will reduce the start/stop cycling to
save electricity and extend life of pump and pressure tank - cycle stop valves

I recently put a 15amp smart plug that works with Alexa and HomeKit on my 1/2 hp goulds pump and I can set it to come on at 5am and turn off at 10pm, or when nobody is home, or tell Alexa or Siri to turn on or off the pump.
Doubt I'll see any major light bill change soon but maybe over time as the pump here isn't needed all the time.

Meross smart plug that works with Alexa, Google Home and Apple HomeKit
https://amzn.to/42a16wY

Meross smart plug that works with Alexa and Google Home
https://amzn.to/3B4Tgci

Someone mentioned to me there are single phase soft start for motors. I haven't seen any yet and have no experience with such.

If it's something programmable it may be able to regulate pressures to an extent and increase motor lifespan. Again, have yet to see if or any in action.

[nervewrecker]

I have a 24000btu Panasonic payed 10k for it, it's about 5 yrs now I bought it serviced 3 times and the thing working like oil. Still quiet very cold, usually set at 24degC. Electricity bill went up approx $100.00. Great unit if u can afford one. I want to buy another one but I was told they only have samsung and they said the samsung is better. Samsung is 11500 and the wifi one is about 13xxx.

Also bought a Panasonic 240000btu and it's always been stress.
When it works it works great but there's always an issue with it every few months even with regular cleaning

Seems like all imported after a certain time have some sort of issue. I don't know if they bringing defective merchandise or what is the issue. Mine older than most and runs 24/7 and never had an issue *knocks hard on wood*

The output driver unit is what failing. It's weird because the only thing on that circuit is the compressor, it's completely isolated from the mains. You'd expect the input and rectification circuit to fail from voltage swings etc.

Dealers remaining silent on the matter

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I want to change the Panasonic 24000 but not sure what to get. On really hot days if there are more people than usual in the space it wouldn't cool the area as well.
ABEL has a special right now on Katashi and then there are the Pioneer units.
Dunno what else is available - what you suggest?

[Dave]

Pioneer which is rebranded Gree and parts are available.
Birdie here told me this.
Stay away from the pannys and the el gees as parts are not readily available. Birdie said that too.
Birdie need to fly back in the game.

[nervewrecker]

Even the gree built units seem to be failing (not sure about the gree brand as servair men don't call me for anything).

Gree, midea and Korean built units seem to be failing. I haven't heard anything on the Toshiba but it's only a small percentage of the market and they keep to themselves.

I good in engineering yes. Nobody working under me, I not responsible for anyone and not accountble for anyone bad work, lack of work, eh come to work, shortchanging on work, makkomeh man and pantyman behavior.

Just tell me what you need done and what to move on to after. I'll inform you when it's done and that I'm moving on to the next.

Trying to get myself offshore so I can spend two weeks there and two on land. Already kinda have a plan for a replacement when I not there for the two weeks, he is a tuner, just I haven't braced him yet.

[Chimera]

Dey mus be failing cuz of shitty installers and shitty installs.

[nervewrecker]

Naw, that in itself is another issue.

It's the output section on the boards. Has nothing to do with installer, voltage or servicing. Units clean and don't even use are failing.

I donno of is lack of use.

[pugboy]

daikin inverter I got a few years ago still working good

[nervewrecker]

Daikin is made by gree, just saying

[pugboy]

good to know
so they just have a markup on gree then ?
and there are equivalent gree with the same guts in them I assume ?

Daikin is made by gree, just saying

[nervewrecker]

good to know
so they just have a markup on gree then ?
and there are equivalent gree with the same guts in them I assume ?

Daikin is made by gree, just saying

Some are different models from different lines, sometimes its just the housing in some of the conventional units.

From what i saw, some of the daikin outdoor boards were different from the gree but I think the pioneer and older lennox were the exact same. We had a discussion about trying to work different evaporator with different condensers but I end up getting out of that. The daikin kiara is another story however, iirc made in japan.

[redmanjp]

i think the cost benefit ratio is going to be very different soon when TTEC rates raise- so ppl who planning to buy a AC now should definitely go with inverters.

[pugboy]

ppl also need to look at proper roof radiant barrier insulation or attic venting
properly installed it makes a huge difference

in other countries nobody builds a house without roof insulation