Which is the more efficient transmission choice?

acesinghit · Postby **acesinghit** » November 11th, 2014, 2:17 pm

Tuners,

I have a question:

What if a car had 16 different transmission options mated to the same engine. Which car would be the fastest to 100kmph from standstill mated to the below options, all other things being equal?

automatics
1) 3-speed auto
2) 4-speed auto with tiptronic
3) 5-speed auto with tiptronic
4) 6-speed auto with tiptronic
5) 8-speed auto with tiptronic
6) 9-speed auto with tiptronic
7) CVT with 6-speed tiptronic
8 ) CVT with 8-speed tiptronic
9) 6-speed Dual Clutch with tiptronic
10) 7-speed Dual Clutch with tiptronic

manuals
11) 4-speed manual
12) 5-speed manual
13) 6-speed manual
14) 7-speed manual
15) 6-speed Sequential Manual (SMG)
16) 7-speed Sequential Manual (SMG)

STORM1234 · Postby **STORM1234** » November 11th, 2014, 2:23 pm

eenside

Mark! · Postby **Mark!** » November 11th, 2014, 2:27 pm

Manual over auto to reach 100 the fastest. And It all depends on how u drive it bro.

U wanna pet it or u wanna stretch it?

j.o.e · Postby **j.o.e** » November 11th, 2014, 2:33 pm

Alot of variables but to sum it up ingeneral fastest to slowest

1) DSG
2) Manual
3) Automatic

(left out CVT because it's generally not a performance option)

Fun factor - manual pwns all

sliderz1 · Postby **sliderz1** » November 11th, 2014, 3:52 pm

strong 9 with all the right gear ratios to stay in the powerband of course

brake launch

Postby **Duane 3NE 2NR** » November 11th, 2014, 4:56 pm

depends more on the gear ratios than the type of transmission / gearbox

a sequential gearbox with short gearing like they have in a WRC rally car or F1 car setup for shorter courses or tracks will get you to 100 fastest. Gearing higher up for top speed is another thing.

A WRC Ford Fiesta with a 2000cc turbo engine and all wheel drive can get up to 100Km/h in about 3 seconds. These cars only put out about 300hp but 450ft/lbs torque.

SmokeyGTi · Postby **SmokeyGTi** » November 11th, 2014, 8:42 pm

I remember some talk in the old days about the auto 300zx being faster than the manual one on the quarter mile. Go figure.

cacasplat3 · Postby **cacasplat3** » November 11th, 2014, 9:52 pm

acesinghit wrote:Tuners,

I have a question:

What if a car had 16 different transmission options mated to the same engine. Which car would be the fastest to 100kmph from standstill mated to the below options, all other things being equal?

automatics
1) 3-speed auto
2) 4-speed auto with tiptronic
3) 5-speed auto with tiptronic
4) 6-speed auto with tiptronic
5) 8-speed auto with tiptronic
6) 9-speed auto with tiptronic
7) CVT with 6-speed tiptronic
8 ) CVT with 8-speed tiptronic
9) 6-speed Dual Clutch with tiptronic
10) 7-speed Dual Clutch with tiptronic

manuals
11) 4-speed manual
12) 5-speed manual
13) 6-speed manual
14) 7-speed manual
15) 6-speed Sequential Manual (SMG)
16) 7-speed Sequential Manual (SMG)

you do realise that a CVT with tiptronic is just the TCU simulating gears?.....there aren't any actual gears being selected.....this just gives a sportier feeling.

when it comes to acceleration, a CVT transmission has the ability to keep the engine at its peak torque by continuously adjusting the drive ratio....thus giving the best acceleration possible.

kjaglal76v2 · Postby **kjaglal76v2** » November 11th, 2014, 10:23 pm

cacasplat3 wrote: a CVT transmission has the ability to keep the engine at its peak torque by continuously adjusting the drive ratio....thus giving the best acceleration possible.

Rainman · Postby **Rainman** » November 11th, 2014, 10:26 pm

cacasplat3 wrote:
acesinghit wrote:Tuners,

I have a question:

What if a car had 16 different transmission options mated to the same engine. Which car would be the fastest to 100kmph from standstill mated to the below options, all other things being equal?

automatics
1) 3-speed auto
2) 4-speed auto with tiptronic
3) 5-speed auto with tiptronic
4) 6-speed auto with tiptronic
5) 8-speed auto with tiptronic
6) 9-speed auto with tiptronic
7) CVT with 6-speed tiptronic
8 ) CVT with 8-speed tiptronic
9) 6-speed Dual Clutch with tiptronic
10) 7-speed Dual Clutch with tiptronic

manuals
11) 4-speed manual
12) 5-speed manual
13) 6-speed manual
14) 7-speed manual
15) 6-speed Sequential Manual (SMG)
16) 7-speed Sequential Manual (SMG)

you do realise that a CVT with tiptronic is just the TCU simulating gears?.....there aren't any actual gears being selected.....this just gives a sportier feeling.

when it comes to acceleration, a CVT transmission has the ability to keep the engine at its peak torque by continuously adjusting the drive ratio....thus giving the best acceleration possible.

q

The roro dealer tell yuh dah when yuh buy yuh cedia oarrr?

kjaglal76v2 · Postby **kjaglal76v2** » November 11th, 2014, 11:03 pm

is d sound teefing e head

Postby **pete** » November 11th, 2014, 11:45 pm

The d15b 3 stage VTEC CVT supposedly has better acceleration than an automatic b16a even though it has 30hp less. Just one example of how CVT isn't that bad. Not sure how the sr20ve CVT compares with one on an auto transmission.

supercharged turbo · Postby **supercharged turbo** » November 12th, 2014, 9:19 am

I have the d15b 3 stage vtec cvt and it pulls well as compared to the same engine on a transmission.

kjaglal76v2 · Postby **kjaglal76v2** » November 12th, 2014, 9:30 am

all well & good guys, but is it the best?

cornfused · Postby **cornfused** » November 12th, 2014, 10:08 am

Some versions of CVT will not give full torque off the line , a sr20vvl in the P11 will spin the tires right up to a speedometer reading of 180kmph while going at a speed of may 60mph in wet conditions.

From about 50 kmph is where that CVT delivers the full power of the sr20vvl.

There is a Mercedes dct transmission that is good as its gets with CVT .

neexis · Postby **neexis** » November 12th, 2014, 10:39 am

The best? The fastest?

See here: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=601822

acesinghit · Postby **acesinghit** » November 12th, 2014, 3:53 pm

I think in theory the CVT suppose to give the best acceleration but it appears the dual-clutch is more efficient in that regard.

Some manufacturers mastered the CVT and some did not. I am open to correction but:

Honda made it very efficient in those older EK Civics
Nissan ditched the hypertronic for the new Xtronic which made little improvements according to owners
Mitsubishi INVECS 111 CVT in the Lancer GLX with 4G18 appears to be an epic failure yet the new CY GT 2.0 Lancer with INVECS 111 CVT 6-speed tiptronic and paddle shift were more resilient
Toyota's CVT didn't last too long with some roro customers especially with the horror stories with the Fielder wagons
Subaru joined in with Lineartronic which did not make any impact really in the new and roro market so I have no info to comment on it
Audi's multitronic is either a hit or a miss. Got people on both sides of the fence on their stuff

I guess there's a reason why Mazda, Suzuki and Hyundai/Kia don't really push those CVT's

If CVT's were never meant for performance then why would Mitsubishi use it in the Lancer GT 2.0 and GT-S 2.4? Also why did Audi pair a CVT 6 and 8-speed to their 1.8 turbocharged motor?

Allergic2BunnyEars · Postby **Allergic2BunnyEars** » November 12th, 2014, 4:11 pm

Because those engines aren't performance engines. High torque applications will use manual, slush box auto or wet clutch dsg.

Also audi has dropped cvt. They are going all DSG and manual mostly with some slush boxes for SUVs.

The thing to take away from the various manufacturers isn't an inherent flaw in the tech itself but in their suppliers. Audi cvt trouble is down to errors in design of that particular cvt and not endemic to all cvts. Same way VW had issues with their dry clutch dsg mechatronic units that you don't see on ford's DSGs.

That said cvt may give max acceleration but it is limited in max torque it can handle safely so you will see it on smaller displacement or lower powered engines just like dry clutch DSGs. I hate cvt due to how they make the engine sound.

Weight can also be an issue as for why manufacturers go one way or another. Dry clutch DSGs may be lower in weight than cvts so another reason why more manufacturers are going in that direction.

taurine · Postby **taurine** » November 12th, 2014, 4:37 pm

Though the cvt will keep the car at its most powerful part of the powerband.. It doesn't calculate it until your already doing say 40khp or so for e.g. So from a standstill the cvt would be behind.. Manual paired with the right driver would probably be the fastest with a launch

black start · Postby **black start** » November 12th, 2014, 5:36 pm

b14 transmission...

Ted_v2 · Postby **Ted_v2** » November 13th, 2014, 5:56 am

Manual is the best.
Auto prone to deterioration of internals. Dsg is failure in my book.

Allergic2BunnyEars · Postby **Allergic2BunnyEars** » November 13th, 2014, 9:41 am

The only thing I hate is cvt. Manuals will always be the most fun.

16 cycles · Postby **16 cycles** » November 13th, 2014, 9:59 am

i enjoy the cvt on 'automatic' mode and useful in 'tiptronic' - quashqai

"horses for courses...."

3stagevtec · Postby **3stagevtec** » November 13th, 2014, 10:56 am

DSG vs 6sp Manual

Civic CVT (ferio Vi) vs 4AT (VTi)

http://youtu.be/bwmkVNmYGZ4?t=3m3s

Or play from the 3:00 mark..

The Honda CVT is really sluggish off the line but once on a roll, it is superior to the Automatic.

JF.K · Postby **JF.K** » November 13th, 2014, 9:42 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:depends more on the gear ratios than the type of transmission / gearbox

a sequential gearbox with short gearing like they have in a WRC rally car or F1 car setup for shorter courses or tracks will get you to 100 fastest. Gearing higher up for top speed is another thing.

A WRC Ford Fiesta with a 2000cc turbo engine and all wheel drive can get up to 100Km/h in about 3 seconds. These cars only put out about 300hp but 450ft/lbs torque.

Gran Turismo would have also taught them about this... lol

acesinghit · Postby **acesinghit** » November 15th, 2014, 6:58 am

Got schooled here guys, thanks.

kjaglal76v2 · Postby **kjaglal76v2** » November 15th, 2014, 11:17 am

acesinghit wrote:If CVT's were never meant for performance then why would Mitsubishi use it in the Lancer GT 2.0 and GT-S 2.4?

same reason why they didnt put it in the evo x

Postby **Duane 3NE 2NR** » November 15th, 2014, 11:36 am

acesinghit wrote:If CVT's were never meant for performance then why would Mitsubishi use it in the Lancer GT 2.0 and GT-S 2.4? Also why did Audi pair a CVT 6 and 8-speed to their 1.8 turbocharged motor?

those are not performance cars. They are given a "sport" title for sales

Take this example: Most rally cars are homologated from the road cars. In fact Group N car drivetrains are identical to the road car you buy in the showroom.
You can take a manual or SST (dual wet clutch dsg) Evo and make it a group N car. I've never seen anyone take a CVT road car and use it as a race car without changing the gearbox.