the right to bear arms

[88sins]

You sound like a politician

Interesting & plausible theory.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

in any case I've already stated my personal point of view on this topic. Good luck in trying to make your point of view law.

We all know your opinion. Just remember that your POV isn't necessarily "law" either
Always be open to change, ya never know, you might like it

there is no law allowing every citizen to have a firearm either

I am VERY open to change. However change should not be done for personal wishes over those that affect the entire society.

It's interesting that you talk about change yet you are ok with giving up on a crime plan to change our society for the better and instead revert to the wild west where everyone has a gun. It's also interesting to note that in the US it is the conservatives who are supporting free gun ownership and the liberals who are supporting gun control.

[Redman]

^ he said "life skills", not "skills" as in "skillful"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_skills

Duane idea of a "ARMS RACE" seems to have no basis in reality

This I agree with.
Pariaman says the gun owners he knows are responsible,
I've said the same, I'm sure others can do likewise.
We have no evidence of the arms race, no evidenced of legal gun holders going primal.
In fact what we have is exactly the opposite.


A personal choice is just that.
It cannot be grounds to remove the abilities of other choose,even when their choice is different to yours.

but we do have confessions of a local gang leader who admits that they need to have bigger guns than the competition and they pay $30,000 and up for each AK47 they get smuggled through Icacos.

His competition would be drug dealers.
Not private citizens who are defending themselves.

for now, yes.

but the dealers themselves don't be the ones using all the guns they buy for the gang. Their henchmen / gang members do and their henchmen / members may also be involved in other crime / robbery / car-jacking etc.

why not fix crime rather than give everyone a gun?

Just indicate where I said give everybody guns
Im advocating a system that is more rigorous than what applies today.
What will change is the lack of feedback and the nebulous nature of the application process.

Im for serious qualification and re qualification, bonded users that subject themselves to random drug tests

Currently you pay your money you get your gun.
Thats it.

I agree -fix crime-what you suggest and how long do you think it would really take?
What happens in the interim?

[fafrumlosin]

Duane i have been reading your post and i see what you are saying about fixing crime and not arming john public. However the times we live in don't allow this as you or anyone here could be the subject of a carjacking, robbery, home invasion,etc. and this is simply because of the mentality of people unlike yourself the ones who want what you have and think it's their god given right to take what they want. i personally would rather own and have a firearm and not need it than need it and not have it. i also understand the reasoning you have of the tit for tat mentality and of people brandishing weapons when arguments may arise but its the same reasoning of saying i own a fast car but don't drive it fast as its against the law people still do it.. what i think everyone else is saying is that they should at least be given the option to own a weapon to secure themselves, and stop fooling yourself if you think that's what the police are there for. i could be wrong but however my thought is if i am a bandit and i know that the person i am attempting to rob may also have a firearm an there's' a 50/50 chance that it could end in my demise i may seek other options rather than what we have now where the bandits in trinidad run rampantly due to the fact they know citizens have no way to protect themselves other than beg not to kill us after they take our stuff.

[88sins]

I am VERY open to change.

This is yet to be proven, based my interpretation of most of your responses. I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

It's interesting that you talk about change yet you are ok with giving up on a crime plan to change our society for the better and instead revert to the wild west where everyone has a gun.

This isn't strictly about firearms, or allowing everyone that wants one to be able to possess one.
You really should read b4 you type. Less mix ups that way.

[sMASH]

While they work on their crime plan, implement more guns for citizens as an interim measure

[88sins]

^allowing firearms guns should never be considered for an interim measure. Too difficult & costly to recall them & collect & dispose of them after they're no longer needed. Not to mention restarting a cycle of gun taboo=desire to have one more than anything, and unreturned arms &^ munitions finding their way into criminal hands & restarting the problem all over again, but in overdrive. Longterm legal ownership, coupled with whatever "crime plans" they choose to pull out of their cracks, and a stronger bond between the police & the rest of society with emphasis on integrity & interaction is what's ultimately needed.

[88sins]

Redman, doh ask d man what he suggest.
He might jus suggest ppl invest in black clothes, nice caskets, grave diggers and whatever book you'd like your funeral prayers to come from(buh wait nah, dai wah we doin now steups)

[sMASH]

^^No doubt we need those things you stated. But we need more legally armed citizens on the streets... In addition

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

You really should read b4 you type. Less mix ups that way.

I will not even bother to reply to that

Duane i have been reading your post and i see what you are saying about fixing crime and not arming john public. However the times we live in don't allow this as you or anyone here could be the subject of a carjacking, robbery, home invasion,etc. and this is simply because of the mentality of people unlike yourself the ones who want what you have and think it's their god given right to take what they want. i personally would rather own and have a firearm and not need it than need it and not have it. i also understand the reasoning you have of the tit for tat mentality and of people brandishing weapons when arguments may arise but its the same reasoning of saying i own a fast car but don't drive it fast as its against the law people still do it.. what i think everyone else is saying is that they should at least be given the option to own a weapon to secure themselves, and stop fooling yourself if you think that's what the police are there for. i could be wrong but however my thought is if i am a bandit and i know that the person i am attempting to rob may also have a firearm an there's' a 50/50 chance that it could end in my demise i may seek other options rather than what we have now where the bandits in trinidad run rampantly due to the fact they know citizens have no way to protect themselves other than beg not to kill us after they take our stuff.

I fully well understand what you are saying.

I am saying that at some point we need to fix the problem rather than accept it as it is and find a plaster for it. We did it with burglar proofing and now it has become ubiquitous and the bane of many architects and designers.

the premise is that crime exists and it will not go away because our society is in a bad state therefore citizens need guns to protect themselves.
However arming citizens who have allowed a society to go into a bad state is NOT a solution because you are assuming only good, level headed citizens will get a gun!

fix the problem first!!!

[rocknrolla]

so fix the problem of crime first.. then give people gun rights when they wont need it since there's no crime??

moot point. as long as there are poor people there will be crime. crime is not going to stop. not for any forseeable reason anyway.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

so fix the problem of crime first.. then give people gun rights when they wont need it since there's no crime??

moot point. as long as there are poor people there will be crime. crime is not going to stop. not for any forseeable reason anyway.

Why arm citizens if they don't need it?

Not all poor ppl are criminals and the poorest are not the ones buying guns. The full stop after "moot point" should have been a colon.

[Firewall]

We did it with burglar proofing and now it has become ubiquitous and the bane of many architects and designers.

Rocket launchers.....now designers

Your arguments are........interesting to say the least.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

We did it with burglar proofing and now it has become ubiquitous and the bane of many architects and designers.

Rocket launchers.....now designers

Your arguments are........interesting to say the least.

as is your counter point here.

[sMASH]

so fix the problem of crime first.. then give people gun rights when they wont need it since there's no crime??

moot point. as long as there are poor people there will be crime. crime is not going to stop. not for any forseeable reason anyway.

EY EY, doh be calling me no criminal, Dan. You have little proof...

[rocknrolla]

so fix the problem of crime first.. then give people gun rights when they wont need it since there's no crime??

moot point. as long as there are poor people there will be crime. crime is not going to stop. not for any forseeable reason anyway.

EY EY, doh be calling me no criminal, Dan. You have little proof...

keep calm u are not in disrepute. as ive mentioned before, most crime and petty crime.. shoplifting etc is as a result of poverty. some.. not all poor people... will give into temptation and even go through bouts of insanity from sufferation in this life. when the need for survival becomes so dire that fear of death reaches their mind.. their is no curbing what a man might do. for that moment, be it 5 minutes or a day when he decide to go out and rob.. for that moment, jail is less of a punishment than the immediate death by starvation he facing. this is why legislation will never stop crime. all it will do is create new brackets of criminals. crime only stops when there is no need for crime.

[Redman]

Redman, doh ask d man what he suggest.
He might jus suggest ppl invest in black clothes, nice caskets, grave diggers and whatever book you'd like your funeral prayers to come from(buh wait nah, dai wah we doin now steups)

Well he eh suggest nuttin yet,so I waiting.

[88sins]

dah might be a loooooong wait (particularly since all the measures he suggested in previous posts was already tried & abysmally failed & proven ineffective)
sip 2 stag in d meantime

[sMASH]

We should ban seatbelts.

[rocknrolla]

Boom! In with the Debate Finisher.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/exclusive ... d=20637341

Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said today the U.S. and the rest of the democratic world is at a security crossroads in the wake of last month's deadly al-Shabab attack at a shopping mall in Nairobi, Kenya – and suggested an answer could be in arming civilians.

"How do you protect soft targets? That's really the challenge. You can't have armed police forces everywhere," he told reporters.

"Ask yourself: If that was Denver, Col., if that was Texas, would those guys have been able to spend hours, days, shooting people randomly?" Noble said, referring to states with pro-gun traditions. "What I'm saying is it makes police around the world question their views on gun control.

obvious it is obvious that interpol has been studying from the Book of RocknRolla

[sMASH]

^^lol. Yes Mr teacher

[88sins]

rocknrolla why u put that here for ppl to see boi? doh be surprised to read certain ppl feel dey know more & better strategies than a international police agency.

[rocknrolla]

lol well i waiting to see and hear this 'expert' who know better than interpol's solution lol

[rocknrolla]

eh duane.. add 'adviser to interpol security agency' to my list of skills deh.. LOL

[PariaMan]

I fed up with Duane if he cannot dispute these facts just close the thread and lets move on

1. The existing system to get guns is flawed and corrupt

2. People who have obtained guns corruptly under these procedures do not go crazy and shoot up the place

3. People who have obtained guns fairly under these procedures do not go crazy and shoot up the place

4.Hunters who have guns do not go crazy and shoot up the place.

5. Country folk who have guns because they have estates, with guns going from generation to generation do not go crazy and shoot up the place

6. While criminals obtain their guns illegally they do not target homes that have guns to get guns

7. Criminals do not buy bigger guns because of the guns that legal owners carry

8. Criminals in USA say their biggest fear when entering a home is if the owner is hiding waiting and armed

9. Terrorists are now targeting soft targets where people gather with no security

If not even one of these facts can be questioned then it is clear that efficient means must be put in place for citizens who qualify to have access to guns in Trinidad in a reasonable time.

Duane STFO close the thread and lets move on

[sMASH]

Points 2,3, 4, 5, can be disputed:Waco Texas, columbine, Rio claro.
Some people do use the guns wrongfully.
But these are rare even for places with liberal gun control. And the protection aspect of legally issued firearms to continuously monitored citizens far outweighs the odd chance one might be used wrongfully

[PariaMan]

Talking aboutTrinidad

[rocknrolla]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=537276

someone was asking when last this kinda thing happen.

[PariaMan]

Exactly family have to fight for their lives with bare arms and what they can pick up in the kitchen SMH!

[sMASH]

Police not keeping their end of the bargain by not protecting.

Anyway, they'll get it right soon, so we still don't need the ability to protect our selves.


''The day you give the responsibility of your security to someone else, is the day you give up your security.''