Keynesian economics vs Austrian economics

[rocknrolla]

This is one of the topics i disagree with Morgan Job about. i support the Austrian Economic model and approach to solving economic recessions and depressions. but you can always count on Dr. Job to give you a hardcore keynesian capitalist point of view. he was able to succeed in it and thus holds what i consider a bias in his opinion that it can work for all just the same. This is why i think he would be better as an adviser as his mind may be old and inflexible to separate thinking.



why have i chosen their methods to align with? because the evidence is clear. not only have they successfully predicted every stage of the collapse that would be caused by political decisions made since the 1970s with perfect accuracy.. their proposed method of solutions when adopted by countries even today have helped to totally reverse the problems still being faced by those countries which have adopted keynesian solutions and continue to struggle.



it is clear that every country that took the keynesian approach has constantly descended in growth and some to the point of mass uprising. this to me, is because the approach causes the gap between middle-class and rich to widen. to the point that the middle-class are pushed slowly further and further towards poverty as inflation creeps up as country goes deeper into deficit. while the government circulates large amounts of finance among a chosen few, to simulate generated growth for the books to look good.

over time, businesses will slowly suck more and more out of you and the money you are afforded will become less and less potent. buying power is reduced steadily with each deficit. and with it quality of life. and as the middle-class are pushed further toward poverty, the poor and poverty stricken are pushed further and further towards destitution. the price of everything raises, but salaries stay the same. is the same as paying a lower salary, since the currency loses value as the country goes further into deficit spending. a path i have no doubt our finance minister is willing to take. because when SHTF those who were part of the bubble of wealth through government contracts etc wont have anything to worry about because theyll have alottt of money to beat the inflation with. meanwhile the man on the ground ketchin his royal. and they dont see or understand this it seems.




Peter Schiff perfectly accurate predictions against the hearsay. those who benefit during this time, support keynes, everyone else.. make do. Peter Schiff want to give the power to grow savings back to the people.


in the end, you really only need one keynesian scholar's opinion. they all say the same thing and pursue the same solutions. but as Peter explained, they're just cooking numbers to look good on the books. but there is no trickle down. and as the amount of ppl grow to feel the pains of the economy, it will cause the voting masses to sway. it's not rocket science.

Here is Paul Kreugman.. eating up his own vomit. for years he has opposed the solutions from Austrian economists strongly, and even to the point of ridiculing them on international television as they presented their views and responses.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/201 ... rd-quarter

Iceland's decision two years ago to force bondholders to pay for the banking system's collapse appeared to pay off after official figures showed the country exited recession in the third quarter.The Icelandic economy, which contracted for seven consecutive quarters until the summer, grew by 1.2% in the three months to the end of September.

Last year Iceland's president Olafur R Grímsson said: "The difference is that in Iceland we allowed the banks to fail. These were private banks and we didn't pump money into them in order to keep them going; the state did not shoulder the responsibility of the failed private banks."

If we want to beat inflation and increase our GDP growth Truly, we need to create jobs and reduce unemployment, whilst also getting more money into the hands of the man on the ground. as consumer confidence grows in the masses and their savings increase, theyll buy more and they coming right back by the businesses to spend the money anyway as they become more thrifty. instead of 5 tomatoes theyll buy 10 and 20. and theyll come to buy building materials and hire people to work on their homes and take mortgages that they can afford to pay with job security. all this will increase the circulation of money and with each revolution GDP grows. then we wouldnt have to simulate numbers for the books to look good. theyll look good all on their own. contractors dont have to get all the money directly from the government. they could get it through the masses personal purchasing power increase.

it's the man on the ground that has to do the spending for there to be a balanced economic effect. to that effect, all salaries should raise if we are to go into any deficit in both public and private sector. without companies raising the wages of their employees as things get more difficult, unemployment could increase, as well as staff turnaround. then the businesses will say that the "people dont want to work". but to complete that sentence id say "people dont want to work.. for nothing". their time and effort should be well compensated. a happy worker is a productive worker. trying to force productivity out ur workers will never work the way is expected, results will always be substandard. some are happy with less. but some need more than others.

reducing poverty and providing opportunity for gainful employment will automatically translate into reduced crime. and generate a more peaceful and tolerant society by reducing the number of youths who maybe driven to desperation for survival.

without reeling in deficit spending or giving the masses their purchasing power back, the outcome has a high likelihood in my view of turning out like all the other countries struggling with major economic problems through keynesian methods:

[DFC]

[brams112]

All to say you feel paying workers more money will make them more productive,get economies going and so forth?better you open a business boi,you have it clean.Too much money causes price increases.

[rocknrolla]

All to say you feel paying workers more money will make them more productive,get economies going and so forth?better you open a business boi,you have it clean.Too much money causes price increases.

it is my point of view yes. and yes, i pay my workers well and they do their best work for me. they go above and beyond the call of duty without any form of prompting. i just say what i want done and it gets done better than i wouldve done it by myself using from their personal knowledge which some employers will never know.

[Miktay]

The Keynesian approach is anchored by the Banking cartel.

Until this changes thing will mostly stay as they are.

[rocknrolla]

which is why it came as no surprise to me to see how the current finance minister was chosen. it's a cabal indeed. i knew everything he would do before he was even fully enstated in the post. number 1, deficit spending.. because these ppl either have no brain or intentionally deceiving the public to believe that they trying their best. they defend the corporations and keep the wealth circulating only in the upper echelons. meanwhile, more and more is sucked out of the man on the ground as corporate profit margins increase and salaries stay the same.

dont they know that eventually the working man wont have any more to give? but if u ask me is just utter disregard and greed. but that ok. let them enjoy their illicit gains in this world. all will be accounted for.

[Miktay]

The banking cartel consists of

1. A commercial banking sector....fm which the current MOF was chosen

2. A deposit insurance scheme...to reassure depositors that their money is 'safe'

And most importantly:

3. A Central Bank. The CBTT is NOT part of the Government of T&T.

If the CBTT is not part of the government...what is it?

[DionYorker]

[quote="Duane 3NE 2NR"]rocknrolla, in various other threads you've claimed:

• to be able to astral travel at will,
• to be a Christian pastor and know everything about the Bible
• to be an elite hacker and IT guru for large global corporations
• to speak and write at a level higher than others can comprehend
• that you are monitoring seismic activity around the world and USGS is faulty
• that the exams to become a quantum physicist are very simple for you.

You create at least two new conspiracy theory topics every day despite other users continuously finding your topics pointless and usually easily debunked.

HOSS TAKE A FRACKIN BREAK.....LOL...WHAM WORK SLOW..JOIN POLICE IT HAVE PLENTY TO DO...

YUH DAMN THIEF HEAD.....

[DFC]

[X2]

Oh boy... economics... one of the things I know best...

i knew everything he would do before he was even fully enstated in the post

Of course you did.... you astral travelled into his brain...


... it would be best if I let this copy and paste thread just die a natural death....


..but that's not in my nature.


SoOOoOo....Mr. Rocknrolla... please with your infinite wisdom...tell us what would fix Trinidad... what would YOU do as finance minister ?

[rocknrolla]

chek d bujjit tread

[rocknrolla]

alright.. i decide to answer u..

if we have to go into deficit.. id use the deficit money to create decent paying jobs in service industry. maybe 1 year contracts for employment at an absolute minimum 4k per month. ppl make good money, spend the money on the businesses and the economy will thrive.

eradicate unemployment. this country is so small it like a tuck shop. we shouldnt have these problems.

in summary.

[brams112]

All to say you feel paying workers more money will make them more productive,get economies going and so forth?better you open a business boi,you have it clean.Too much money causes price increases.

it is my point of view yes. and yes, i pay my workers well and they do their best work for me. they go above and beyond the call of duty without any form of prompting. i just say what i want done and it gets done better than i wouldve done it by myself using from their personal knowledge which some employers will never know.

Lucky you pallie,where I live no one wants to work,plus that is the word from plenty business men in many fields.

[X2]

Not that I'm chookin fire here eh... but rocknrolla.... was your response meant as tongue in cheek ?

If not...lol...There are a few problems with your 'first act in office'.

Aside from the obvious flaw of pushing to increase service industries (good way to bankrupt a country)...

4k per month is not much money...most gov't jobs pay more than that already... such a low number would lead me to ask ...why ?

1 year contracts... also, already done by gov't right now... despite the fact that many workers will still get years of work in back to back contracts.... it doesn't provide much job stability... which leads to reduction in spending....plus mankind cya get a loan for he carnival costume if he only have a 1 yr contract ! OYE VEY !

SPend money on businesses ? What do you mean by this ? Spending money in a business that imports most if not all their goods means that only cents on the dollar stay in the country with even less to share in the region.

Eradicate unemployment.... unemployment is a given... unless you plan to use ole man manning's reasoning that if you're unemployed, and don't want to have a job... well, that counts as being employed.... unless you like communism... which it sounds like you do.

No plan for agriculture ?
What about bolstering manufacturing ?
What about sustainable development planning ?
How about stopping the fire sale of energy resources ?

Austria's economy benefits from heavy government subsidies... they have a large volume of skilled labour and not to mention ridiculously high gdp and export markets to die for.... hardly tuck shop foundation.

C'mon meng.... ppl laughing at you here... after that ctrl+V diatribe... give 2nr something to believe in !

[Miktay]

RR: What you recommend is not much more than the avg Keynesian would advocate. Getting further into debt to stimulate the economy.

Government spending doesn't really stimulate an economy. What it actually does is create an artificial boom. After the stimulus has worn off the economy reverts to a even worse state.

Deficits are not a good idea. Governments and people should live within their means.

Or better still live below their means.

[brams112]

RR: What you recommend is not much more than the avg Keynesian would advocate. Getting further into debt to stimulate the economy.

Government spending doesn't really stimulate an economy. What it actually does is create an artificial boom. After the stimulus has worn off the economy reverts to a even worse state.

Deficits are not a good idea. Governments and people should live within their means.

Or better still live below their means.

If everybody lived within their means we would have no problem.Thing everybody wants to show off.

[Miktay]

RR: What you recommend is not much more than the avg Keynesian would advocate. Getting further into debt to stimulate the economy.

Government spending doesn't really stimulate an economy. What it actually does is create an artificial boom. After the stimulus has worn off the economy reverts to a even worse state.

Deficits are not a good idea. Governments and people should live within their means.

Or better still live below their means.

If everybody lived within their means we would have no problem.Thing everybody wants to show off.

Well yes because gallery 'works' in the short term....doesnt it?

At least you may get you noticed by a few ladies

But it doesnt work in the long term. Because living off other peoples money (read: debt) is a recipe for bankruptcy.

I hope the MOF is able to effectively balance the short term gallery needs of the people against the longer term need for fiscal responsibility.

[rocknrolla]

u aint really read me inno X2. check the budget thread for real yes cuz i done say some of the things u say there.

also as i was discussing before.. the services will be internationally marketed services.. call centre.. like what india doing now and surging their economy by providing customer support over voip telephone networks to international clients outsourcing gthese services.

it is very cheap relatively to both implement and train staff. and the returns can be grand because we can charge international market rate prices.. or just a little lower to beat the competition. in essence.. small input.. big output.

agriculture.. i already talk bout that i real summarize. does kinna get tired saying the same thing over and over again nah.. lol

i include government going into agriculture and providing jobs in that avenue for us to increase iour local produce and help reduce import. already said i believe trinidad has both the land and resources to ensure through agriculture that we can feed ourselves.

manning according to what u said, was looking at the economy the same way obama does. and believe me, it slightly altered but is the same view this current government have regarding economics... keynes. which in stages will break down society.

so for a start yes, eradicate unemployment through initiating a international services department and hiring and training all unemployed, o levels or none to answer the fone and handle client issues. we done have the sexiest accent in the world imagine how we could market that. they just have to follow a manual and forward calls.. and voip costs are an extremely cheap method of implementing that infrastructure. we have empty buildings from what manning build still to house the workforce not so?

wasnt aware of the recurring contracts u talking about, but i talking about reducing unemployment to something like a handful of ppl without work with the aim of making it zero. creating jobs that dont necesserily require degrees etc, that ppl who can speak or be trained to speak can do.

the thing is that manning view and this government view is party and parcel in stages and steps. this government keep circulating big money contracts to large businessmen, but when we borrow money from the world bank we should use that money to create jobs and raise salaries, which will increase spending from the ground up and naturally.. GDP growth. causing inflation to shrink.

about the number 4k/mth i use. that is really with the aim of making it minimum wage. no more ppl working for 2400 a month and these kinda substandard pay grades. id prefer 5k. but i scale it down a bit based on possible budget limitations. but if we going to go deeper into deficit it should be invested in the lower echelons first.

[rocknrolla]

also i dont support deficits either. but i dont think we stopping the finance minister from doing that no way no how. no time. he is a keynes man.. and deficits with the promise of growth to repay will always be the way.

unless hes been doing some research on up to date models for surging out of recession. iceland came out first, because they rejected the advised strategy by the keynesians.

now all them keynesian experts who was all over the media floundering and talking off their head against austrian measures have to fall back and admit they were wrong.

[JoeBama]

i understand what you saying rocknrolla.... the FM AND THE CABAL bleeding de economy.. THEY CUT WE WRIST... but say what THAT IS WHAT WE LIKE, THAT IS WHAT WE WANTED.... WAIT WHO VOTED THEM IN.. now we suckin for the next couple of years we go be trying to suck on kams dried up tits trying to feed our kids...

[rocknrolla]

boy since that election i was saying, write ur own name on the ballot and put ur vote dey. lmao

but i did have some hope for the pp to win, i didnt vote, but either way, they let we down bad bad bad.

[Miktay]

Democracy is flawed.

[rocknrolla]

Iceland's President speaks:

[Dirty Face]

I too say Austrian.
Pity politicians have to "reimburse" bankrollers with "favors"
Life.
Independently weathly businessman as PM FTW... (NOT THEIFIN JACK THO)
Would be great if someone like LokJack or Ahmad or something step up and say F this we bankrolling our own party and we wont owe anybody anything
But then the "masses" will vote according to racial and emotional ties without a thought or understanding of the big picture so whats the sense?

[X2]

Too much scholastic theory and assumptions in here to discuss the impact of economic models... not to mention you need to change the whole world for it to work... and since the world runs on corruption... well. LOL. I digress.

Politicians know little about business and even less of economics as we tend to elect the least knowledgeable of our intelligent people to lead.

With that said, debating one model over the other is a 2 dimensional discussion that has 3 dimensional implications. Which model works better is determined by the needs of society at that time (growth, expansion, industry vs technology, population density...). if only switching could be as easy as choosing what you're going to eat today.

[rocknrolla]

well what can i say.

stupid ppl choose stupid leaders. deceptive ppl choose deceptive leaders, liars choose lying leaders, greedy ppl choose greedy leaders, shallow ppl choose shallow leaders, Godless ppl choose Godless leaders.

enjoy!

[rocknrolla]

Too much scholastic theory and assumptions in here to discuss the impact of economic models... not to mention you need to change the whole world for it to work... and since the world runs on corruption... well. LOL. I digress.

Politicians know little about business and even less of economics as we tend to elect the least knowledgeable of our intelligent people to lead.

With that said, debating one model over the other is a 2 dimensional discussion that has 3 dimensional implications. Which model works better is determined by the needs of society at that time (growth, expansion, industry vs technology, population density...). if only switching could be as easy as choosing what you're going to eat today.

excuses excuses.


switching is as simple as adhering to different policies from tomorrow onward. if our leaders claim they incapable of understanding the switch.. what they doing in leadership positions and cant lead?

it good!

they will be responsible for all the tribulation they cause.

[rocknrolla]

how dey does say it?? bing bang boom? ;LOLOL

[dougla_boy]

[rocknrolla]

it have night literacy classes for this problem lol