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WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

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Big Z
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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby Big Z » January 25th, 2013, 6:24 pm

[mode=Devil's Advocate]

How do those numbers listed affect the performance of the oil?
And which are better?

[/mode]

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby FullStop » January 25th, 2013, 8:57 pm

detergents are what keep the engine clean, anti wear additives are basically friction reducers, TBN is the acid neutralizing capacity of the oil, higher numbers are better.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby Big Z » January 25th, 2013, 9:07 pm

What about quality of the oil basestock?

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby FullStop » January 25th, 2013, 9:12 pm

I would say higher is better, but not necessarily, the different grades have different properties, the premium product manufacturers seem to think a blend of 4 and 5 is best.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby Big Z » January 25th, 2013, 9:17 pm

But the Blackstone results dont take this into account.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby FullStop » January 25th, 2013, 9:18 pm

no that is manufacturer information.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby Big Z » January 25th, 2013, 9:23 pm

Cool.. that was my point... judging an oil on its additive package is a bit simplistic.
There are lots more factors to consider, base stock is just one of them.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby FullStop » January 25th, 2013, 9:27 pm

thats right but for the most part all of that information is represented so an informed decision can be made......

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby FullStop » January 25th, 2013, 10:13 pm

Image

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby CD4Accord » January 26th, 2013, 12:00 am

Dread, i know its off topic but today I driving down the road in Jamaica and I see a man wearing knee high hello kitty rainbow coloured socks..... In JAMAICA yes... Some people brave/dotish etc

I want some AGIP hello kitty oil though.. Makes your engine purr

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Big Z
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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby Big Z » January 26th, 2013, 6:13 am

CD4, I totally understand why you would want to share that. Some things just can't be bottled up.
gb, your'e still simplifying too much, and considering only once aspect of the whole picture.

Warning: There are lots of simplifications and generalizations in the notes below, but they are presented for explanation.

API, who more or less control the North American oil standards, has been mandating less additives, mostly due to emission standards. SN is allowed less additives than SM, but may actually perform better than SM over its usable lifetime. I am not saying SN will run to a longer than SM, since less addtives (as you have grouped them into detergents, anti-wear and TBN, especially the TBN) will reduce the effective lifetime. This is clearly illustrated with CJ4, where the TBN and ZDDP is significantly lower and of course, CJ4 should only be used in vehicles that specifically require it. But, for want of a better word, the stability of a CJ4 oil is better. It maintains viscousity longer and the NOACK volatility (measure of the rate of burnoff) is superior.

A super useful spec is the HTHS... this is what you actually see on your oil pressure gauge.
This is the little known spec that manufacturers actually aim at. Lots of the Eurpean makers require a high HTHS.

Another nice to have is a high viscousity index... a measure of how the oil viscousity responds to temperature. A higher VI oil does not thin out (and reduce bearing protection) as fast as a low VI oil.

VOAs are nice, but does not give a full guide as to what is going on with your oil.
Ester based oils are naturally polar, so the detergent levels need not be the same as a reformualted Group 3 or a PAO based Group4.
There are just too many variables which are left out, some of them listed above.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby FullStop » January 26th, 2013, 8:51 am

Na Big Z, I didnt make any simplifications, I just posted a compilation of information to help answer the question posted.

The idea that SN oils might outperform SM oils has mostly to do with the metric used to compare them, basically what they count as performance. The mandate of SN was to be energy conserving. Notice, while the detergency of SN oils continue to be close to their SM counterparts, the antiwear capacity is massively reduced.

Now while the Ester based oils do have the advantage of being polar, you might notice in the chart that in fact, the group4/group5 blended base stock oils still have the most additives, and of course you know that group 5 bases are ester stocks.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby Big Z » January 26th, 2013, 9:20 am

Nice linky here on SN vs SM

Excerpts:

In 2010 the American Petroleum Institute introduced a new engine oil category under the name API SN and a new supplemental category called Resource Conserving.

The API SN category is an improvement over the API SM category in the following areas:

High temperature deposit protection for pistons
Better sludge control
Better seal compatibility
Aftertreatment compatibility

This means that API SN compares to API SM like this:

API SN and API SM comparison chart
Image

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby FullStop » January 26th, 2013, 11:15 am

I can see SN oils preventing deposits since there are much less additives. I cant say that I agree with the wear protection being equal, unless aftertreatment compatibility is factored in. I'm guessing seal compatibility would be necessary for vehicles that specify only SN oils be used.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby X_Factor » January 26th, 2013, 11:25 am

allyuh dont think allyuh over examining the issue?
any decent branded oil once you change it within the specific interval will do fine in today's market
especially in trinidad where from what i understand we waste oil

right now my main thing is price, i want the cheapest
and that is amsoil xl atm

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Big Z
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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby Big Z » January 26th, 2013, 12:23 pm

Not at all... There's an entire community dedicated to oil - BITOG

The dramas occur when you want to push your car to sustained high rpms and extended service... that's when the quality of your oil really shows.
Reminds me that its time to replace engine and gearbox oil.

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Re: WHATS THE BEST SYNTHETIC OIL ON THE MARKET?

Postby codyjohnd » February 2nd, 2013, 11:32 pm

valvoline full syn 5w 30

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