THA Elections

[rfari]

Manning was popular enough within his constituency to retain his seat for the 2010 elections so for you to use that example may also be flawed.

[toyota2nr]

I can agree with that. My issue is and continues ‪to be that the PNM supporters seem to be blind to everything their party does. So while we making noise for Section 34 let's pretend our boys did nothing wrong.

PNM - senior member makes a statement perceived to be racist on a political platform ; loses his deputy leader position.
UNC - member made statements over the years perceived to be racist; elevated to a ministerial position in its government.

The low socioeconomic sheep wouldn't see that

oho, and once again. if yuh speak ill of the pp, yuh is a pnm. they speak of freeing others from mental slavery while their supporters thinking is stuck. go figure.

I like how you side step the issue there......good one.

how was it side stepped? unless of course emotion is your forte, and reasoning isnt due to such strong self-denial.

By your emotion, the complainant and 6 witnesses are all dutty PNMites ent?
http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2013-01-25/acting-cop-complainant-against-ex-minister

Actually I haven't even read that. What self-denial have to do with it? For the most part i agreed with you but i mentioned something that up to now you haven't addressed.

[eliteauto]

why is it that in order to critique the PP you MUST preface that with a critique of the PNM to appear legit to you PP sycophants? the PNM's ultimate critique was on May 24th 2010, we are dealing with the now and instead from the Parliament to the rumshop all I'm hearing "well dem did do this too" so the vote for change was really exchange then? Doh beatup when the voters exchange again eh

[wagonrunner]

LOL, self-denial yes..
The pnm supporters blind to.....

WHO blind to WHAT exactly?

[kurpal_v2]

Hey seeing as most you guys are highly opinionated, which one would you rather go Rama or machel Monday?

[Rooki3]

depends on what crowd u appreciate or should i say tolerate

i wud go machel, rama having too much natives for my liking

[wagonrunner]

Hey seeing as most you guys are highly opinionated, which one would you rather go Rama or machel Monday?

should be in chutney soca finals in the park (if thats still the plan), and woulda like to play jouvert. eh decide yet.

[kurpal_v2]

Personally brass>finals.

Not feeling that drive afterwards so skipping both.

[rfari]

Going karamboulay (sp) at twin walls sunday. Sub dropped off some comps so i gwan check the scene

[Habit7]

Heard that Sat is now publicly calling for Trinidad to divorce Tobago and for us to have proportional representation in the government.

Seems like Devant is the brain and Sat is the muscle.

[pioneer]

This thread eh lock yet?

[rfari]

Sat is a chamar. His opinion has negligible weight

[zoom rader]

Sat is a chamar. His opinion has negligible weight

Whether his opinion has negligible weight he does hold alot a weight. This is a guy that took on the PNM all the way to the Privy Council and won.

And just what is a chamar?

[~Vēġó~]

non brahmin...in other words rfari...

[zoom rader]

^^^ and rfari is skilled in knowing whos a brahmin or chamar

[rfari]

Sat is a chamar. His opinion has negligible weight

Whether his opinion has negligible weight he does hold alot a weight. This is a guy that took on the PNM all the way to the Privy Council and won.

And just what is a chamar?

That doesnt give his any weight or respect. He just vex that the indian high commissioner hasnt sided with him in the tobago lands issue.

[zoom rader]

^^^ It is not proper protocol to have outsides meddling with your internal affairs

[rfari]

^^^ It is not proper protocol to have outsides meddling with your internal affairs

The Indian High Commission issued a statement on Monday on the matter raised by the General Secretary of the Maha Sabha, Sat Maharaj. It explained that the visit was primarily a business visit and not in any way intended to lobby the THA on any land issue.
In response, the Indian High Commission outlined that that statement by Maha Sabha’s General Secretary, Sat Maharaj as, “continued intervention by intrusive and divisive actions into the affairs of the Hindu community of Trinidad and Tobago” as false, baseless and malicious. In listing the facts, the press release explained that the Indian High Commissioner, Malay Mishra did in fact visit Tobago on June 2nd through to the 3rd accompanied by an Indian businessman who was interested in setting up an industrial unit in the context of the visit of a THA delegation to India and signing of a MOU between the THA and the NSIC in April 2010, following the High Commission’s initiative in bringing a MSME delegation to Trinidad and Tobago earlier this year.

The release continued that the visit was primarily a business visit and not in any way intended to lobby THA on land issue of any such. It added that since Mr. Mishra was visiting Tobago after a gap of six months, he wanted to give an interaction with the Indian community to be appraised of the current situation and their requirement, if any. This meeting was part of the high commissioners remit and it was in fact arranged by the President of the Tobago Hindu Society, Ms. Rayan Ramoutar.

He outlined that the High Commissioner is always in constant contact with Tobago, one such explained outlined is the visit of the Tobago House of Assembly delegation to India as part of a 3- nation tour of Asia, coordinated by the Indian High Commission. It stated that the visit last week was basically a follow up on that and this can be attested to from his discussions with Dr. Anselm London,

I d'oh see the issue here

[AllTrac]

Sat is a chamar. His opinion has negligible weight

dai meh uncle dan, take it down ah notch nah, please

[gt4tified]

Sat is a chamar. His opinion has negligible weight

dai meh uncle dan, take it down ah notch nah, please

Doh worry wid dem Trac, yuh unks izza borse. And just to show dem how much of a borse he is, dare him to walk into the THA and shake London hand nuh?

[zoom rader]

^^^ It is not proper protocol to have outsides meddling with your internal affairs

The Indian High Commission issued a statement on Monday on the matter raised by the General Secretary of the Maha Sabha, Sat Maharaj. It explained that the visit was primarily a business visit and not in any way intended to lobby the THA on any land issue.
In response, the Indian High Commission outlined that that statement by Maha Sabha’s General Secretary, Sat Maharaj as, “continued intervention by intrusive and divisive actions into the affairs of the Hindu community of Trinidad and Tobago” as false, baseless and malicious. In listing the facts, the press release explained that the Indian High Commissioner, Malay Mishra did in fact visit Tobago on June 2nd through to the 3rd accompanied by an Indian businessman who was interested in setting up an industrial unit in the context of the visit of a THA delegation to India and signing of a MOU between the THA and the NSIC in April 2010, following the High Commission’s initiative in bringing a MSME delegation to Trinidad and Tobago earlier this year.

The release continued that the visit was primarily a business visit and not in any way intended to lobby THA on land issue of any such. It added that since Mr. Mishra was visiting Tobago after a gap of six months, he wanted to give an interaction with the Indian community to be appraised of the current situation and their requirement, if any. This meeting was part of the high commissioners remit and it was in fact arranged by the President of the Tobago Hindu Society, Ms. Rayan Ramoutar.

He outlined that the High Commissioner is always in constant contact with Tobago, one such explained outlined is the visit of the Tobago House of Assembly delegation to India as part of a 3- nation tour of Asia, coordinated by the Indian High Commission. It stated that the visit last week was basically a follow up on that and this can be attested to from his discussions with Dr. Anselm London,

I d'oh see the issue here

Well see here of Meddling

Row over Hinduism
By Julien Neaves

Story Created: Jan 25, 2013 at 10:03 PM ECT

Story Updated: Jan 25, 2013 at 10:14 PM ECT

AS HIGH COMMISSIONER to a secular state, Indian High Commissioner to Trinidad and Tobago Malay Mishra should be speaking about goods and services and not about Hinduism.

So said secretary general of the Sanatan Dharma Maha Sabha (SDMS), Sat Maharaj, on Thursday in response to statements made by Mishra earlier in the month during a media briefing on the 150th birth anniversary celebrations for famed Indian spiritual leader, Swami Vivekananda, at the Indian High Commission on Victoria Avenue, Port of Spain.

At the briefing, Mishra had expressed concern about "errors creeping" into Hinduism locally, saying there was too much emphasis on ritualism with a "very shallow understanding of the philosophy of the religion".

He also commented that a lot of confusion and errors had been creeping into religion, both in India and locally, among "so-called priests and pundits".

The Express received a number of letters following the article on January 5 reporting his comments.

Some of the writers praised Mishra on his comments, applauding his urgings to local Hindus to follow the teachings of Vivekananda on spiritual equality, while other writers accused him of attacking local Hinduism, and they especially took issue with the phrase "so-called priests and pundits".

Maharaj, speaking to the Express via telephone, said the SDMS is concerned about a diplomat representing a secular state "pronouncing on religion".

He pointed out that one would not hear the US ambassador or the Canadian high commissioner commenting on religion.

"Why is the (Indian) High Commissioner pronouncing on religious matters?" he asked rhetorically.

He questioned why Mishra did not speak about Christianity or about Islam, which has millions of followers in India, and "all the killings" in the name of those religions.

Maharaj also responded to Mishra's comments in two columns in the Guardian newspaper. In the second column, he defended the importance of rituals in Hinduism and criticised Mishra for having a lack of understanding about Hinduism locally and in general.

Mishra defended himself in a letter to that newspaper published on Thursday, noting that his comments "may have created some controversy".

He said his "so-called" remark was directed at a certain category of priests and pundits who have a superficial understanding of the religion and "take only to rituals to secure their own future, much less to advance the cause of religion".

Mishra stressed that he has "profound respect for priests and pundits who speak for the universality of an all-embracing nature of Hinduism, key hallmarks of the religion".

He said he was also aware of the role played by priests and pundits, both locally and in the Hindu diaspora.

On the issue of rituals, Mishra said he never meant to "denigrate" them, noting that they formed an "integral part of any religion".

He also said there was a need for the younger generation of Hindus to "rational and scientific validation of Hinduism".

Maharaj, in response to Mishra's letter, said he was "back-tracking" on his previous comments.

[netsket]

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/letters/Disgraceful_appeal_to_race-188445971.html

Disgraceful appeal to race

Story Created: Jan 25, 2013 at 10:03 PM ECT

Story Updated: Jan 25, 2013 at 10:17 PM ECT

The issue of the THA elections and the unadulterated and obscene appeal to race in the name of political expediency by the THA must not, and can never be, simply "wished" away or be put in some crevice in our backward minds and remain there festering until, like the nasty abscess that it is, be allowed to spew its filthy pus again whenever it suits the moronic, self-opinionated and backward politician who feels the urgings of expediency and draws it from his odoriferous back-pocket and with a bash on the table, trumps every sane and serious issue with a less-than-subtle appeal to prehistoric and uncivil racial cliquishness, and be allowed to return it to its lair, nicely hidden away until the next time he feels power slipping away and draws it out once again.

I will shout an emphatic no to that type of behaviour which, along with its indulgent owner, should be condemned to the filthy gutter where they both belong.

Such behaviour will forever keep this country rooted in backwardness and feigned, strained "tolerance", if not overt mindless incivility. It is an impediment to our progress as a learning society, which is absolutely vital to our future survival as a nation.

Such behaviour keeps us firmly anchored to a mindset that has no place in the modern world for it is only un-evolved animals that exhibit that type of blind instinctive appeal to the clannish pseudo-protection of the herd.

It is a base type of behaviour rooted in racist bigotry that needs to be exposed to the sunlight if it is to be eradicated not only from our adult minds, but most importantly, from the impressionable minds of our children! And it is those charged with stewardship over the common good who should be the first to condemn racist utterances if only because an absolute prerequisite of that stewardship is to show neither "fear nor favour" to anyone!

We have reached the absolute pit of the fetid mire when we are not in the least concerned that we can climb a podium and expose our bigotry for all and sundry, and then limp to some other podium in pomp and splendour to put our filthy hands on a holy book as if to convince a stultified mob that we will truly function without "favour" or "fear". What are we? What have we become? Why do we do this over and over?

When I heard this putrid garbage, my heart sank to the bottom of some dark pit and with it every sense of ownership, kinship and identity that I felt with the people of Tobago and more so with the PNM as an organisation. I shudder at what the future holds if this behaviour is not seen by all and their children, to be roundly punished for what it truly is.

Steve Smith

via e-mail

[Habit7]

^^^An editorial, with someone's fake name, sent in by email, is not news

[zoom rader]

^^^ Dude the Bago people not racist. The PNM themselfs are racist.

[Habit7]

I conceded to that already viewtopic.php?f=4&t=479700&p=6805612#p6805612

[rfari]

Sat is a chamar. His opinion has negligible weight

dai meh uncle dan, take it down ah notch nah, please

Dais ting u doh admit hoss

[Habit7]

'Tobago ethnicity awakened with a vengeance'
Voter turnout highest in 28 years

By Kevin Baldeosingh
Story Created: Jan 26, 2013 at 9:53 PM ECT
Story Updated: Jan 26, 2013 at 10:03 PM ECT

In 1984, which was the only other time there was a 70 per cent voter turnout for the Tobago House of Assembly election, the People's National Movement got just one district. On January 21 this year, with another record number of people going to the polls, the PNM took all 12 districts on the island. Even in 1980, when the THA was created by Act 37 of 1980 for "making better provision for the administration of the island of Tobago and for matters therein", only 66 per cent of the electorate came out to vote. Since then, voter turnout has averaged 55 per cent.

With just over 46,000 eligible voters, this means that nearly 7,000 people who ordinarily wouldn't have voted came out to cast their ballots. So why did Tobagonians come out in higher numbers than they had in the past 28 years? Was it because of racism, as alleged by UNC chairman Jack Warner and Attorney General Anand Ramlogan? Or was it fear, as asserted by Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar?

Political analyst Kirk Meighoo says the key factors were ethnicity, not race. "Tobagonians voted on an island nationalist basis, which IS an ethnic basis, but not a racial basis. There is a big difference between race and ethnicity," he explained to the Sunday Express in an e-mail response. "Insofar as politics is mobilised ethnically — in that wider sense of ethnicity — then the Tobago ethnicity was awakened with a vengeance."

In a 2008 paper titled "Ethnic Mobiolisation vs Ethnic Politics, Meighoo argued that "what analysts claim as 'racialist' politics in Trinidad and Tobago amounts to not much more than competition for office and demands for a share of Government patronage in terms of jobs, business contracts, directorships, State funding, and so on. As a rule, political parties stress their national character, and play down any ethnic bias. They regularly claim that the other political parties are ethnic, while they are national."

But one of the main talking points of the campaign was a statement by then-Deputy Chief Secretary Hilton Sandy that a "ship from Calcutta" was ready to invade Tobago if the People's Partnership won the election. On election night, Indira Rampersad, a lecturer in UWI's International Relations Department, asserted on the State-owned CNMG TV panel that "Whether that statement was actually said in error, I would say no. I would say that it was a carefully thought out strategy because it evoked a response and I think that was also planned." Rampersad added, "If it evoked a response it would create and play on the minds of the Tobagonian and I think we see the plans by the PNM to secure victory and we can say it certainly worked."

In the 2010 general election, 60 per cent of the Tobago electorate voted and the Tobago Organisation of the People took the island's two seats with 55 per cent of the total votes cast. In the THA election two weeks ago, the PNM received 61 per cent of the votes, while the TOP, which in 2009 had won four districts, got just 31 per cent. But averaging the percentages in Table 2 shows the PNM's core support in Tobago comprises just 45 per cent of the electorate. And even that average can drop to 33 per cent, as happened in 1996. This implies that the 15 per cent of irregular voters who went to the polls for the 2013 THA election didn't vote for the PNM per se, but against the People's Partnership. In fact, a poll conducted in December by UWI"s Sociology Division implies that most Tobagonians would be unhappy about the PNM's redwash, since the majority polled did not want Tobago to be run entirely by the THA.

But what motivated the irregular voters to come out?
"This election touched THE most important or passion-invoking political issue in Tobago, which is the political status of the island," Meighoo says. He accuses Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar of attempting to undermine the THA for partisan reasons since she took office. "Her efforts even went so far as to undermine the THA's exercise in furthering self-government for Tobago. The People's Partnership bill was obviously made for political gain, at the last minute, and rightly interpreted as insincere," he asserts. "In the campaign, it was clear that Ashford Jack and the TOP were under the control of the People's Partnership from Trinidad, and the dominating presence of the Ministers, who clearly did very little show that they understood Tobago, and perhaps very much to actively show that they did not understand Tobago politics. Tobagonians saw this as an 'invasion', and this is the context in which the 'ship from Calcutta' statement was made."

Meighoo also notes that Tobago's main parties in the past, the Democratic Action Congress and the National Alliance for Reconstruction, had always been in some political relationship with UNC founder Basdeo Panday's Hindu base. "The Tobagonian-Hindu connection has been very important historically, partly based on the 'peasant' or agricultural ethos," he argued.

Meighoo was not surprised that TOP leader Ashworth Jack was defeated. "In 2010, it seemed superficially as though the TOP inherited Robinson's DAC mantle," he says. "But Robinson was not fully behind the TOP, and as an individual Ashworth Jack did not have the political capital of Robinson or even Hochoy Charles. So it was always a shaky foundation."

Meighoo also points to the Keith Rowley factor in the PNM victory. "One cannot discount the fact that Rowley — the 'Tobago boy' — had then wrested leadership of the PNM from Patrick Manning in a long campaign. This is the first time a Tobagonian has led the PNM and must be seen as historic," he says.

So what does the PNM sweep in the THA poll imply for the general election in 2015? Meighoo says, "Lloyd Best's axiom that Tobago is politically half of the country is basically true. Tobago's influence and importance goes beyond their numbers. We will be more sure and less speculative about the 12-0 THA effect with the local government elections this year."

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/_To ... 11531.html

[rfari]

Excellent article

[zoom rader]

Political analyst Kirk Meighoo says the key factors were ethnicity, not race. "Tobagonians voted on an island nationalist basis, which IS an ethnic basis, but not a racial basis. There is a big difference between race and ethnicity," he explained to the Sunday Express in an e-mail response. "Insofar as politics is mobilised ethnically — in that wider sense of ethnicity — then the Tobago ethnicity was awakened with a vengeance."

So Warner was right afterall they voted on Tribal basis.
As I said before bago people not racist, but the PNM are.

[De Dragon]

Excellent article

Hadda disagree there metro, one analyst doesn't make for insightful analysis.