2012/13 Budget - 44% increase in Premium gasoline

[Rory Phoulorie]

PPL all over the world have different rating systems... do not get the chain up that our gas already better than alot of other countries..that is false and propaganda

our gas is actually not that good

This is what NP sent me when I enquired about obtaining copies of their quality control test results on the fuel that they market.

Dear customer,

Fuel quality control tests results for the octane rating on petroleum fuels are kept by National Petroleum Marketing Company Ltd and as far as my knowledge affords me , is not for public disclosure. The fuels are received from Petrotrin with a COQ ( Certificate of Quality ) document clearly outlining the type of fuel and the octane or cetane rating accordingly. Samples are then sent to the Laboratory for further testing and approvals before the product is received by NP. If the fuel does not meet the specified requirement, the entire stock is sent back to Petrotrin and not sold to the public.

Customer Service Supervisor
National Petroleum Marketing Company Ltd.

So unless anyone has independent test results on the octane rating of the fuel that NP markets, ensuring that the sampling, handling, transportation and testing were done in accordance with the relevant ASTM or other appropriate standards, then we have to take what NP and Petrotrin say at face value. Otherwise, any lawyer representing either entity will just shoot down your argument about how you are questioning the octane rating based only on how your engine is running.

What about contamination of the fuel that is stored in underground tanks that are not sealed properly? Can't this contaminated fuel also affect how your engine works (as opposed to NP is not selling fuel with the advertised RON)? There are fuel stations that are independently owned and operated. If these fuel stations have pervious tanks, is it really fair to lay the blame solely at NP's doorstep about poor quality fuel?

[gastly369]

Motorists who use super graded gasoline and diesel fuel are next on Finance Minister Larry Howai's list.
He is hoping that Government would be able to make another dent in the $4 billion fuel subsidy by as early as next year.
Speaking at the Energy Chamber's annual general meeting luncheon at the Hyatt Regency (Trinidad) hotel, Port of Spain, yesterday, Howai acknowledged that even with the removal of the subsidy on premium gas in Monday's national budget, other fuel prices remained "heavily subsidised".
Premium fuel prices were increased on Tuesday from $4 per litre to $5.75 (44 per cent higher) following Howai's budget presentation in Parliament.
Yesterday he compared the cost of the fuel subsidy to other projects, saying the annual subsidy could build "three hospitals and 25 schools".
"We left super and diesel untouched, but this must be addressed so we don't mortgage our future," he said.
The subsidy on super gas accounts for 41 per cent of the total volume of gasoline sold and 45 per cent of the subsidy, he said.
Premium users account for nine per cent of the volume of gasoline sold in the country.
Gradually, "we will see market forces playing a part in fuel prices", he added.
Howai's plan involves possibly removing the super gas subsidy and at least the marine fuel one as early as next year.
His aim is to replace drivers' dependence on premium, super and diesel and replace it with cheaper, cleaner compressed natural gas (CNG).
This will involve a CNG initiative, which will include 62 mobile and physical gas stations, construction of which will start next year, Howai told reporters following the luncheon.
He agreed with Prime Minister Kamla Persad-Bissessar that some vehicles that use premium gas could switch to the cheaper super fuel.

[tr1ad]

diesel will increase no doubt, but not by much

this is because from inception of services, diesel has been utilized, transport and public transport on the whole

if it had been limited to government transport (buses) and strictly commercial vehicles then it would be a different story

if diesel raises by a mere 50cents, commuters and consumers would suffer none the less

Yes but it's something that has to be done.

If they make premium and super 4x the price of diesel then everyone will just buy diesel vehicles and you're back to square one. What would you say about all the other countries in the Caribbean that don't have their fuel subsidised? How do they get by? You make it seem like we won't be able to survive in Trinidad if that happens but that's not true.

I gave an example of how the price of goods would increase if diesel price doubled in an earlier thread. Even something like bread would not have to go up much ($0.15/loaf). Transport maybe 10-15%. Only people it'll hit hard is the ones who are using it in their private vehicles.

Thing is.. if diesel actually COSTS the government say $6/litre and you're buying it for $1.50 then every time you fill up for $80 you're taking $240 from the rest of the population.

It will be hard if they take it away but if they don't in a few years we're really going to be screwed.

pete,
not speaking of lifelong suffering, but it would be an adjustment

just like 4 years ago when fuel costs went up, what was the outcome?
nothing changed, granted diesel wasn't touched but everything reverted to normal
i am all for the subsidy removal on fuel (across the board) for the benefit of the country, but at the time of such a change, even the smallest consumer would suffer in the initial stages of such a change.... if it were to be a quarterly increase, might have a better effect on those types of consumers

would you have agreed to a 44% increase in diesel, considering the quality of what we now pay $1.50 for?

[Stephon.]

Anyone got todays express? Check page 15 under the heading "ROWLEY has become so predictable under letters" Is that a sarcastic joke or something?

[nervewrecker]

diesel will increase no doubt, but not by much

this is because from inception of services, diesel has been utilized, transport and public transport on the whole

if it had been limited to government transport (buses) and strictly commercial vehicles then it would be a different story

if diesel raises by a mere 50cents, commuters and consumers would suffer none the less

Yes but it's something that has to be done.

If they make premium and super 4x the price of diesel then everyone will just buy diesel vehicles and you're back to square one. What would you say about all the other countries in the Caribbean that don't have their fuel subsidised? How do they get by? You make it seem like we won't be able to survive in Trinidad if that happens but that's not true.

I gave an example of how the price of goods would increase if diesel price doubled in an earlier thread. Even something like bread would not have to go up much ($0.15/loaf). Transport maybe 10-15%. Only people it'll hit hard is the ones who are using it in their private vehicles.

Thing is.. if diesel actually COSTS the government say $6/litre and you're buying it for $1.50 then every time you fill up for $80 you're taking $240 from the rest of the population.

It will be hard if they take it away but if they don't in a few years we're really going to be screwed.

more like $0.15 a slice.

They jack up transport prices when premium went up, imagine if they really touch diesel.

Look where doubles prices alone reached.

[DJ Q]

diesel will increase no doubt, but not by much

this is because from inception of services, diesel has been utilized, transport and public transport on the whole

if it had been limited to government transport (buses) and strictly commercial vehicles then it would be a different story

if diesel raises by a mere 50cents, commuters and consumers would suffer none the less

Yes but it's something that has to be done.

If they make premium and super 4x the price of diesel then everyone will just buy diesel vehicles and you're back to square one. What would you say about all the other countries in the Caribbean that don't have their fuel subsidised? How do they get by? You make it seem like we won't be able to survive in Trinidad if that happens but that's not true.

I gave an example of how the price of goods would increase if diesel price doubled in an earlier thread. Even something like bread would not have to go up much ($0.15/loaf). Transport maybe 10-15%. Only people it'll hit hard is the ones who are using it in their private vehicles.

Thing is.. if diesel actually COSTS the government say $6/litre and you're buying it for $1.50 then every time you fill up for $80 you're taking $240 from the rest of the population.

It will be hard if they take it away but if they don't in a few years we're really going to be screwed.

pete,
not speaking of lifelong suffering, but it would be an adjustment

just like 4 years ago when fuel costs went up, what was the outcome?
nothing changed, granted diesel wasn't touched but everything reverted to normal
i am all for the subsidy removal on fuel (across the board) for the benefit of the country, but at the time of such a change, even the smallest consumer would suffer in the initial stages of such a change.... if it were to be a quarterly increase, might have a better effect on those types of consumers

would you have agreed to a 44% increase in diesel, considering the quality of what we now pay $1.50 for?

Travelling from city gate went from $5.00 to $6.00 via Maxi to Arima
Many, MANY taxi fares went up by a dollar even though 0.001% of them use premium.
Doubles went up.

Price of bodi was in fact affected

Not b!tching... but things did change.

If diesel goes up... everything in Trinidad will go up.

[pioneer]

diesel is causing all the problems

[tr1ad]

you sure that doubles went up 4 years ago because super and premium prices were increased or it was because flour went up at the same time?

[nervewrecker]

you sure that doubles went up 4 years ago because super and premium prices were increased or it was because flour went up at the same time?

flour price stay the same?

what about kfc prices?

[De Dragon]

you sure that doubles went up 4 years ago because super and premium prices were increased or it was because flour went up at the same time?

If the price of Uranium went up, craven and unscrupulous MC's will raise a price.

[DJ Q]

you sure that doubles went up 4 years ago because super and premium prices were increased or it was because flour went up at the same time?

Good point, I forgot about the flour thing.
It most likely may have been related in that case, but the other things went up just after premium went up.

As I said... things did change and what I foresee is the value of our dollar dropping yet again.

[Stephon.]

I don't think that raising super and premium and leaving diesel alone would make a BIG shift in the vehicle market, people would still buy premium and super cars and leave out vans, there ARE people that just don't like vans in general you know. I personally like cars more than SUVs, I also like cars more than I do vans so I would always choose a car over a van no matter the price difference when it comes to what I would be paying whenever I make a stop at NP.

Insurance for a T vehicle may deter people from buying vans anyways, and would choose to pay off the premium piece piece everytime they have to full up

[Conrad]

I not buying no damn electric vehicle. I not buying no damn cng conversion kit. I not buying no damn cng vehicle either.

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83
/quote]

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

[Stephon.]

What I'm worried about though is if diesel goes up, everything would go up, then pay would have to go up and employers would have to then pay their employees more money, in some instances, their goods and services would then go up, so no Pete, the price of bread won't go up by a mare 15cents per loaf, please do remember that this is Trinidad and a 15 cent increase won't happen, especially on something like bread. Then we would be one step closer to Guyana and their currency. I am hearing about traveling allowances to be adjusted from as early as this month end / forth night to accommodate the price hike for people under the "premium list"

[De Dragon]

I not buying no damn electric vehicle. I not buying no damn cng conversion kit. I not buying no damn cng vehicle either.

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83
/quote]

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

Nah, let's wait another few years or so when we have to cut it in a very short time because it starts to be an even bigger strain on the economy. Let's not raise it by a few cents here and there...

[Rory Phoulorie]

. . . .forth night . . . .

What's a "forth night"?

Fortnight?

Fourth night?

Fourth knight?

[rfari]

Stephon u does gesticulate plenty when u making a point?

[De Dragon]

Stephon u does gesticulate plenty when u making a point?

He'll reply after he looks it up.............

[Conrad]

I not buying no damn electric vehicle. I not buying no damn cng conversion kit. I not buying no damn cng vehicle either.

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

Nah, let's wait another few years or so when we have to cut it in a very short time because it starts to be an even bigger strain on the economy. Let's not raise it by a few cents here and there...

Whut?

[De Dragon]

I not buying no damn electric vehicle. I not buying no damn cng conversion kit. I not buying no damn cng vehicle either.

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

Nah, let's wait another few years or so when we have to cut it in a very short time because it starts to be an even bigger strain on the economy. Let's not raise it by a few cents here and there...

Whut?

Let's trap and pass from Gov't to Gov't until some unfortunate arse has to cut the subsidy hard, instead of removing it a few cents per Budget to decrease the fallout.

[Stephon.]

. . . .forth night . . . .

What's a "forth night"?

Fortnight?

Fourth night?

Fourth knight?

fcuk off!

[De Dragon]

. . . .forth night . . . .

What's a "forth night"?

Fortnight?

Fourth night?

Fourth knight?

fcuk off!

Ah man x fuh a lil clarification is all

[DJ Q]

fcuk off!

^French Connection UK are still very much on... not sure how that's relevant though

[Conrad]

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

Nah, let's wait another few years or so when we have to cut it in a very short time because it starts to be an even bigger strain on the economy. Let's not raise it by a few cents here and there...

Whut?

Let's trap and pass from Gov't to Gov't until some unfortunate arse has to cut the subsidy hard, instead of removing it a few cents per Budget to decrease the fallout.

I understand what you suggested but why quote my post?

[Stephon.]

. . . .forth night . . . .

What's a "forth night"?

Fortnight?

Fourth night?

Fourth knight?

fcuk off!

Ah man x fuh a lil clarification is all

So after all that though, and the point I made that is all that could be said? k seems legit, I guess he won't be affected in the future by ANY gas price increase

[pete]

pete,
not speaking of lifelong suffering, but it would be an adjustment

just like 4 years ago when fuel costs went up, what was the outcome?
nothing changed, granted diesel wasn't touched but everything reverted to normal
i am all for the subsidy removal on fuel (across the board) for the benefit of the country, but at the time of such a change, even the smallest consumer would suffer in the initial stages of such a change.... if it were to be a quarterly increase, might have a better effect on those types of consumers

would you have agreed to a 44% increase in diesel, considering the quality of what we now pay $1.50 for?

What's wrong with the quality of what we now pay $1.50 for? I would have agreed to a 100% increase. Our company vehicles run fine on it and we don't even add fuel treatment.

[teems1]

They seriously can't find 4b to keep the subsidy.

They can shave a 100-200m from each of the other ministries budgets to keep the population happy.

I can't name 1 ministry which performs at a level comparable to the private sector, yet they want so much money every year to operate. sigh.

[silent_riot]

I not buying no damn electric vehicle. I not buying no damn cng conversion kit. I not buying no damn cng vehicle either.

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83
/quote]

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

Found it while googling..
http://sta.uwi.edu/conferences/12/revenue/documents/TDriverforwebsiteposting.pdf

[silent_riot]

A very interesting presentation:

http://www.energy.gov.tt/content/210.pdf

[Conrad]

I not buying no damn electric vehicle. I not buying no damn cng conversion kit. I not buying no damn cng vehicle either.

Hahahahahahaahaaaaaa I laugh with tears in mih eye.

Seriously though and politics aside I have some questions and the convo here could produce answers from the collective.

Raising diesel is political suicide. These are politicians. Lewwe dun that there. If the premise is that they raised premium to cut into the gas subsidy I can't understand how if they are asking people to switch to super. Premium was subsidized less than super by ALOT!!!



So on average, premium was $0.73/liter to subsidize, super is $1.83
/quote]

Where'd you get that graph? It suggests that we're paying waaaaaay over the average price for premium.

Found it while googling..
http://sta.uwi.edu/conferences/12/revenue/documents/TDriverforwebsiteposting.pdf

Good info! Thanks.


At face value it suggests just like many are speculating:

The upper echelons of society benefit the most from the subsidy.(pg 10-11)
Premium gas buyers seem to now be "subsidising" other gasoline buyers. (pg 3)
South motorists are responsible for a large portion of the subsidy, probably from having to travel long distances to get to work. (pg 12)
There was an increase in diesel usage over gasoline close to elections (pg 5). Probably from all those motorcades and political party mobilisation.

BTW, anyone understand what the columns suggest on pg 10? I don't understand the need to include "Latin America, Africa and Other" columns.


P.S. I see many suggesting that we NEED to remove the subsidy for increase competitiveness on a global level. Did the gov't actually say what they're going to use the now diverted funds for? Is there any proper accountability to the public by Ministers for funds allocated to their respective ministries?

The budget presented reminds me of when I worked at a particular institution. Most of the "heads" couldn't construct/interpret a budget far less for use it effectively. Just outcries on what they saw affecting them directly i.e. WE EH GET ENUF MORNEY!