The Religion Discussion

[MG Man]

sad thing is, while muslims beat on the bible for having different versions, they sidestep the fact that there were different versions and interpretations of the koran in the years following the death of moh'd, until they finally agreed on one that would be 'official'
And sadly, they refuse to see how much of the bible was used as the basis for their book.......it was written by man, and borrowed heavily form other books also written by man
The big difference with islam is that unlike christianity which allowed open debate and questioning of its book, islam stamps that sheit out so that it can't happen....hence no 'reformation' etc like other religions would allow

[TonyM]

well in the muslim view when a person or tribe dies without any knowing of a god etc on judgement day Our lord will send a prophet to them they can either choose to accept or reject him. from there they will go in heaven or hell. this is a lecture that was given its not my view as muslims are not allowed to give personal views but source them from books .

this will not apply for other religions whom believe in other gods like hindus, chinese etc

The problem with this, mediahouse, is that when you die, it's final. Whether your lord sends a Prophet on Golden Wings or a donkey is anybody's guess.

You cannot prove this. You only know this because it is what your scriptures led you to believe.

well if you know anything about the muslim religion , which in this case you dont.,, we just dont go by scriptures like other religions the proof of life after death and a judgement day was taught to us through prophet muhammed (pbuh). which he received direct revelation and even has seen heaven and hell to warn mankind. hes more glorified in our religion even more than jesus. so our scriptures are not something by hear say its actual revelation and accounts of events which happen

mediahouse, you cannot prove that Muhammad got revelation from God any more than a Christian can prove Jesus is the son of God. Therefore your point is invalid.

It is pointless that God would make you pray 5 times a day facing a building halfway around the world, not eat pork, starve yourself for a month, waste time in a building every friday and walk around a box 7 times at least once in your life to be accepted into paradise ALL on faith as opposed to a tribe member who doesnt do any of that crap, hunts wild boar and drinks and smokes herbs that gets him high, who when he dies he is questioned by an angel about whether he believes in Allah or not, quick quick. If you had an Angel in front you, would you need much faith?

Oh and the difference why YOU go through a life of the above rituals and the tribe guy does what he wants but you both get into "heaven" is because you heard a message from a book and he didnt, so you get a lifetime of submission and he gets a single question. That makes absolutely NO sense considering it is the divine plan of an almighty God!

this will not apply for other religions whom believe in other gods like hindus, chinese etc

LOL, but the tribe has their own made up religion, just like Aztecs or Mayans. How is their religion different from Hinduism or Chinese beliefs?

Please make a valid point.

[megadoc1]

sad thing is, while muslims beat on the bible for having different versions, they sidestep the fact that there were different versions and interpretations of the koran in the years following the death of moh'd, until they finally agreed on one that would be 'official'
And sadly, they refuse to see how much of the bible was used as the basis for their book.......it was written by man, and borrowed heavily form other books also written by man
The big difference with islam is that unlike christianity which allowed open debate and questioning of its book, islam stamps that sheit out so that it can't happen....hence no 'reformation' etc like other religions would allow

muslims yo.jpg (48.27 KiB) Viewed 2097 times

[MG Man]

As to your question - After the flood, Noah's children went their separate ways to repopulate the world. .

please explain how they got from Mt Ararat to the american continent and the Australian continent please

[AdamB]

^ the only logical explanation, if we are to accept the parameters of the accounts of Adam and Eve and the creation of mankind, is that Adam and Eve had many children and Cain married his sister and they had children.

I have a question though. if ALL of mankind came from Adam and Eve and it is God's will to have man worship him, why is that tribes that have no contact with the outside world, such as tribes who live deep in the rain forests of Brazil, are not Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Christian or any of the major religions in the world?

because no one to spread the word of religion to guide them..

so what happens to them when they die?

Verily We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them.
( سورة فاطر , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #24And similarly, We sent not a warner before you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) to any town (people) but the luxurious ones among them said: "We found our fathers following a certain way and religion, and we will indeed follow their footsteps."
( سورة الزخرف , Az-Zukhruf, Chapter #43, Verse #23)

They will say: "Yes, indeed a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: 'Allah never sent down anything (of revelation); you are only in great error.'"
( سورة الملك , Al-Mulk, Chapter #67, Verse #9)

Qur'aan CH35 (Faatir):
36 But those who disbelieve (in the Oneness of Allah - Islamic Monotheism), for them will be the Fire of Hell. Neither will it have a complete killing effect on them so that they die, nor shall its torment be lightened for them. Thus do We requite every disbeliever!

37 Therein they will cry: "Our Lord! Bring us out, we shall do righteous good deeds, not (the evil deeds) that we used to do." (Allah will reply): "Did We not give you lives long enough, so that whosoever would receive admonition could receive it? And the warner came to you. So taste you (the evil of your deeds). For the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) there is no helper."

38 Verily, Allah is the All-Knower of the Unseen of the heavens and the earth. Verily! He is the All-Knower of that is in the breasts.

[AdamB]

because it is impossible to fully translate (convey) the full meaning from one language to another.

is it really that far off though?

Yes, it leads to wrong interpretation and misguidance!!

[AdamB]

sad thing is, while muslims beat on the bible for having different versions, they sidestep the fact that there were different versions and interpretations of the koran in the years following the death of moh'd, until they finally agreed on one that would be 'official'
And sadly, they refuse to see how much of the bible was used as the basis for their book.......it was written by man, and borrowed heavily form other books also written by man
The big difference with islam is that unlike christianity which allowed open debate and questioning of its book, islam stamps that sheit out so that it can't happen....hence no 'reformation' etc like other religions would allow

muslims yo.jpg

SAD IS THE LENGTHS THAT CHRISTIANITY HAD GONE (AND APPARENTLY STILL DO) TO "CONVERT" NATIVES!!!

My evidence is in the History Books.

Sad for you Megadoc.

[Computerman]

My evidence is in the History Books.

Which history books you referring to? The one where Columbus "discovered" the America's? Or the one where ET's directed the formation of pyramids throughout the world?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

AdamB, you are saying that the tribes in Brazil would have gotten a warner telling them of Islam?

[bluefete]

As to your question - After the flood, Noah's children went their separate ways to repopulate the world. .

please explain how they got from Mt Ararat to the american continent and the Australian continent please

Genesis 11

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

[AdamB]

AdamB, you are saying that the tribes in Brazil would have gotten a warner telling them of Islam?

Verily We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them.
( سورة فاطر , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #24

I had posted on this before, I don't recall if there was a hadith on this. The scholars have said that if a person was in the position that no warner/messenger/prophet (or their message) had reached him, then Allah will test that person on the Day of Judgment.

One of the tests is that Allah will command him to enter the Fire of Hell. The one who disobeys will be cast into the Fire and the one who obeys, the fire will be made cool for him and he will be granted entrance into Paradise.

[TURBOT]

[TonyM]

AdamB, you are saying that the tribes in Brazil would have gotten a warner telling them of Islam?

Verily We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them.
( سورة فاطر , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #24

I had posted on this before, I don't recall if there was a hadith on this. The scholars have said that if a person was in the position that no warner/messenger/prophet (or their message) had reached him, then Allah will test that person on the Day of Judgment.

One of the tests is that Allah will command him to enter the Fire of Hell. The one who disobeys will be cast into the Fire and the one who obeys, the fire will be made cool for him and he will be granted entrance into Paradise.

reminds me of the billy goats gruff and other fairytales.

that warner or prophet didn't do a good job because no un-contacted tribe has ever been found practicing Islam. There are hundreds of un-contacted tribes in Brazil alone. That's alot of people.

Infact when Columbus found the americas, there was no one on this side of the world who had ever heard of Islam, surely these were children of Noah and Adam. And entire SIDE of the earth?

And like I said before

It is pointless that God would make you pray 5 times a day facing a building halfway around the world, not eat pork, starve yourself for a month, waste time in a building every friday and walk around a box 7 times at least once in your life to be accepted into paradise ALL on faith as opposed to a tribe member who doesnt do any of that crap, hunts wild boar and drinks and smokes herbs that gets him high, who when he dies he is questioned by an angel about whether he believes in Allah or not, quick quick. If you had an Angel in front you, would you need much faith?

Oh and the difference why YOU go through a life of the above rituals and the tribe guy does what he wants but you both get into "heaven" is because you heard a message from a book and he didnt, so you get a lifetime of submission and he gets a single question. That makes absolutely NO sense considering it is the divine plan of an almighty God!

it seems like a good gap filler story though

when you have a hole in your story, you make up things to fill the gap. Unfortunately those fillers are usually not very logical, which is why there was a hole there in the first place.

Your warner story does not make sense. Just like having people fast 21 hours a day just because the Quran was written 1400 years ago in the middle east and no one back then anticipated people living so far north in the future or did they even know of longer and shorter days with latitude changes? What happens when people start living on the moon on lunar colonies? How will they see the moon phases and exactly where do they face to pray? Surely an all knowing God should have accounted for this.

[TonyM]

As to your question - After the flood, Noah's children went their separate ways to repopulate the world. .

please explain how they got from Mt Ararat to the american continent and the Australian continent please

Genesis 11

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

same lack of logic here too

so God gave them a new language and scattered them around the earth miraculously but somehow forgot to give them any teachings of himself as one God so that the Apache Indians worshipped animals, plants, minerals, meteorological phenomena, and mythological figures as Gods and believed their Godly powers acquired by man and, if properly handled, used for a variety of purposes.

[pseudorandom]

As to your question - After the flood, Noah's children went their separate ways to repopulate the world. .

please explain how they got from Mt Ararat to the american continent and the Australian continent please

For that, scientists have their explanations and time lines. Do your research. They used fossils, genetics and whatever else to determine the movement of humans out of Africa to the rest of the world.

Something interesting is that a study suggests that about 100,000 - 70,000 years ago, humans were at the brink of extinction, with only a small group of people being alive. That's because human genetics are so similar, even from people on opposite sides of the world. From that small group of surviving people, the whole of mankind developed. That happened to be around the same time humans started moving out of Africa into the Middle East then populate the rest of the world. Sounds consistent with Noah's ark story. In fact that human dispersal theory is called the Noah's ark model.

As for whether God sent warners/messengers to each group of people as the Quran says, there is no proof of this, just pure belief based on the Quran. But remember we are talking about time periods of tens of thousands of years. As Bible and Quran stories will show, e.g. Moses, people are very quick to turn against the message and the message can get corrupted very quickly and even lost within a few generations.

[pseudorandom]

I see some talk about whether or not the Quran was the actual word of God or made up by man. Even claims it plagiarises the Bible. Even the people from Muhammad’s time made that same claim.

-And when Our Verses are recited to them, they say “We have heard this. If we wish we can say something similar to it. These are nothing but stories of old.” [8:31]

So I would like to as briefly as I can (I know, it’s still long), point out things that might be considered evidence.

1. The eloquence of the Quran above that of any human speech.
2. The unique arrangement and organisation of its verses and chapters, and the manner in which the words are arranged,
3. The incapability to produce anything similar to it by the disbelievers during the Prophet’s time and those after them.
4. The stories and accounts of the nations and prophets of old, since the Prophet had no recourse to such information.
5. The predictions which occurred in the Quran and which later came true.
6. The fact that it has been protected and remained unchanged over such a long period of time, despite the fact that all other religious books have been distorted from their original text.
7. The ease by which it is memorised, and this is known by experience and observance. This is in contrast to all other religious book, for none of them are memorised like the Quran.
8. The deep meanings that are present in it, and the fact that the reader never tires of reading the Quran, no matter how many times he has heard it or read it. This is in contrast to any other book, since a person cannot read it more than a few times without it getting monotonous and mundane.

Now I realise that this “evidence” is not apparent to people who do not natively speak Arabic language. It would be impossible to describe in a foreign language, the aspects of the Arabic language that makes the Quran so unique. I will go into a little more detail into a few points.

At the time of the Prophet, the Arabs had reached the peak of eloquence, and this was their most prized art. Poetry was what they valued the most, and each tribe competed with others to see which one could produce the most skilled and eloquent poet. During the annual fair of Ukaadh, poets from all over Arabia would compete for the honour of having their poem win the highest prize: that of being posted on the door of the Kabah until the next fair.

Due to this pride that was prevalent among the Arabs, the miracle that was given to the Prophet was of a similar nature, the Quran in an Arabic that was so emotive and eloquent that the Arabs could clearly see it was a miracle. On top of this, God challenged them, the people who prided themselves in their skill of poetry and eloquence, to bring forth anything similar to the Quran, and told them such attempts would be futile.

-And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a surah (chapter) similar to it, if you are truthful. But if you do not do it – and of a surety you cannot do it – then fear the fire whose fuel are men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers. [2:23-24]

-Say: if all of mankind and jinn gathered together to produce the like of the Quran, they could not produce it – even if they helped one another. [17:88]

A pretty bold statement to make. There are other parts of the Quran that mentions the challenge. It was initially a challenge to produce the whole Quran. When they were unable to do this, it was reduced to ten surahs, then finally to one surah.

Concerning the challenge, there is no way for a non-Arabic speaker to verify if the challenge has been met. If people did try, who is going to judge whether it meets the same eloquence as the Quran? Muslims would be biased of course. There is no objective way to verify if someone did actually meet the challenge.

So what convinces me is the reaction of the people in Muhammad’s time (people highly skilled in poetry) when they heard Quran. A person in present day Arabic speaking country will hear the Quran from small growing up. What about people who hear it for the first time?

There are many events of the Prophet about the effect the Quran had on people. There were some people who just run away because they could not deal with it. The Quraish (dominant tribe in Makkah) leaders would sneak out at night to hear the Quran. Even though the people of Makkah rejected Muhammad’s message, they would still gather around and listen whenever the Quran was being recited because they admired the eloquence of the language. There are many stories of people converting instantly on hearing the words of the Quran, the most famous being that of Umar who was the biggest oppressor of Muslims and was on his way to kill Muhammad. Some other stories in particular (being brief, so look them up) are (1) Utba ibn Rabi’ah (master Politian/Debator) hired by the Quraish to convince the Prophet to give up his mission with an offer of great riches and highest leadership, (2) Al-Waleed ibn al-Mugheerah (the most highly esteemed poet of Makkah) when he passed the Prophet and heard him reciting Quran, (3) Unays al-Ghifaree (a famous poet of Arabia) visiting Makkah, (4) Jubayr ibn Mut’im reaction when he heard surah at-Toor, (5) Musaylimah, a person who claimed prophethood, tried to imitate the Quran and failed miserably.

Finally, remember this Quran with its eloquent language, came through Muhammad, a person who was illiterate and had no education and would be impossible for him to develop this on his own to compete against the best poets and get such reaction from people. Having companions constantly around him, he couldn’t sneak off to his secret poet to get fancy lines to say.

[Humes]

Jeezan age...another one joins the fold. Plagiarising to attempt to disprove plagiarism in the Koran.

[megadoc1]

same lack of logic here too

how so?

so God gave them a new language and scattered them around the earth miraculously

yes! according to the source that bluefete quoted from

but somehow forgot to give them any teachings of himself as one God

no !slow down now, he didn't forget! it is you who forgot to examine the same source quoted before drawing such a conclusion!!.the same source that said he gave them different languages also says that
Rom 1:19 God punishes them, because what can be known about God is plain to them, for God himself made it plain.
Rom 1:20 Ever since God created the world, his invisible qualities, both his eternal power and his divine nature, have been clearly seen; they are perceived in the things that God has made. So those people have no excuse at all!

so that the Apache Indians worshipped animals, plants, minerals, meteorological phenomena, and mythological figures as Gods and believed their Godly powers acquired by man and, if properly handled, used for a variety of purposes.

then the same source went on to say Rom 1:21 They know God, but they do not give him the honor that belongs to him, nor do they thank him. Instead, their thoughts have become complete nonsense, and their empty minds are filled with darkness.
Rom 1:22 They say they are wise, but they are fools;
Rom 1:23 instead of worshiping the immortal God, they worship images made to look like mortals or birds or animals or reptiles.
Rom 1:24 And so God has given those people over to do the filthy things their hearts desire, and they do shameful things with each other.
Rom 1:25 They exchange the truth about God for a lie; they worship and serve what God has created instead of the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever! Amen.
Rom 1:26 Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their sex by unnatural acts.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.
Rom 1:28 Because those people refuse to keep in mind the true knowledge about God, he has given them over to corrupted minds, so that they do the things that they should not do. ...............................................................................................................................................................

[megadoc1]

I see some talk about whether or not the Quran was the actual word of God or made up by man. Even claims it plagiarises the Bible. Even the people from Muhammad’s time made that same claim.

-And when Our Verses are recited to them, they say “We have heard this. If we wish we can say something similar to it. These are nothing but stories of old.” [8:31]

So I would like to as briefly as I can (I know, it’s still long), point out things that might be considered evidence.

1. The eloquence of the Quran above that of any human speech.
2. The unique arrangement and organisation of its verses and chapters, and the manner in which the words are arranged,
3. The incapability to produce anything similar to it by the disbelievers during the Prophet’s time and those after them.
4. The stories and accounts of the nations and prophets of old, since the Prophet had no recourse to such information.
5. The predictions which occurred in the Quran and which later came true.
6. The fact that it has been protected and remained unchanged over such a long period of time, despite the fact that all other religious books have been distorted from their original text.
7. The ease by which it is memorised, and this is known by experience and observance. This is in contrast to all other religious book, for none of them are memorised like the Quran.
8. The deep meanings that are present in it, and the fact that the reader never tires of reading the Quran, no matter how many times he has heard it or read it. This is in contrast to any other book, since a person cannot read it more than a few times without it getting monotonous and mundane.

Now I realise that this “evidence” is not apparent to people who do not natively speak Arabic language. It would be impossible to describe in a foreign language, the aspects of the Arabic language that makes the Quran so unique. I will go into a little more detail into a few points.

At the time of the Prophet, the Arabs had reached the peak of eloquence, and this was their most prized art. Poetry was what they valued the most, and each tribe competed with others to see which one could produce the most skilled and eloquent poet. During the annual fair of Ukaadh, poets from all over Arabia would compete for the honour of having their poem win the highest prize: that of being posted on the door of the Kabah until the next fair.

Due to this pride that was prevalent among the Arabs, the miracle that was given to the Prophet was of a similar nature, the Quran in an Arabic that was so emotive and eloquent that the Arabs could clearly see it was a miracle. On top of this, God challenged them, the people who prided themselves in their skill of poetry and eloquence, to bring forth anything similar to the Quran, and told them such attempts would be futile.

-And if you are in doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a surah (chapter) similar to it, if you are truthful. But if you do not do it – and of a surety you cannot do it – then fear the fire whose fuel are men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers. [2:23-24]

-Say: if all of mankind and jinn gathered together to produce the like of the Quran, they could not produce it – even if they helped one another. [17:88]

A pretty bold statement to make. There are other parts of the Quran that mentions the challenge. It was initially a challenge to produce the whole Quran. When they were unable to do this, it was reduced to ten surahs, then finally to one surah.

Concerning the challenge, there is no way for a non-Arabic speaker to verify if the challenge has been met. If people did try, who is going to judge whether it meets the same eloquence as the Quran? Muslims would be biased of course. There is no objective way to verify if someone did actually meet the challenge.

So what convinces me is the reaction of the people in Muhammad’s time (people highly skilled in poetry) when they heard Quran. A person in present day Arabic speaking country will hear the Quran from small growing up. What about people who hear it for the first time?

There are many events of the Prophet about the effect the Quran had on people. There were some people who just run away because they could not deal with it. The Quraish (dominant tribe in Makkah) leaders would sneak out at night to hear the Quran. Even though the people of Makkah rejected Muhammad’s message, they would still gather around and listen whenever the Quran was being recited because they admired the eloquence of the language. There are many stories of people converting instantly on hearing the words of the Quran, the most famous being that of Umar who was the biggest oppressor of Muslims and was on his way to kill Muhammad. Some other stories in particular (being brief, so look them up) are (1) Utba ibn Rabi’ah (master Politian/Debator) hired by the Quraish to convince the Prophet to give up his mission with an offer of great riches and highest leadership, (2) Al-Waleed ibn al-Mugheerah (the most highly esteemed poet of Makkah) when he passed the Prophet and heard him reciting Quran, (3) Unays al-Ghifaree (a famous poet of Arabia) visiting Makkah, (4) Jubayr ibn Mut’im reaction when he heard surah at-Toor, (5) Musaylimah, a person who claimed prophethood, tried to imitate the Quran and failed miserably.

Finally, remember this Quran with its eloquent language, came through Muhammad, a person who was illiterate and had no education and would be impossible for him to develop this on his own to compete against the best poets and get such reaction from people. Having companions constantly around him, he couldn’t sneak off to his secret poet to get fancy lines to say.

breds the quran was written years after Mohammed died he did not write it ..and even if someone is illiterate they could utter words..in fact you ever hear those mad men in town? just so mohamed use to utter his stuff...ok?
who says you needs to learn to read to do that?

[AdamB]

AdamB, you are saying that the tribes in Brazil would have gotten a warner telling them of Islam?

Verily We have sent you with the truth, a bearer of glad tidings and a warner. And there never was a nation but a warner had passed among them.
( سورة فاطر , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #24

I had posted on this before, I don't recall if there was a hadith on this. The scholars have said that if a person was in the position that no warner/messenger/prophet (or their message) had reached him, then Allah will test that person on the Day of Judgment.

One of the tests is that Allah will command him to enter the Fire of Hell. The one who disobeys will be cast into the Fire and the one who obeys, the fire will be made cool for him and he will be granted entrance into Paradise.

reminds me of the billy goats gruff and other fairytales.

that warner or prophet didn't do a good job because no un-contacted tribe has ever been found practicing Islam. There are hundreds of un-contacted tribes in Brazil alone. That's alot of people.

Infact when Columbus found the americas, there was no one on this side of the world who had ever heard of Islam, surely these were children of Noah and Adam. And entire SIDE of the earth?

Duane and TonyM,
GOD said a WARNER would have been sent to them. Not A WARNER sent WITH THE RELIGION OF ISLAM. Islam means submission to the will of GOD. So to obey from that perspective means that they were muslims, people who submitted to the will of GOD BUT NOT ISLAM AND MUSLIMS AS WE KNOW TODAY WHO ARE FOLLOWERS OF MUHAMMAD. I hope you follow and can understand the difference. Take note MGMan.

The Warner would have told them:
1. There is no god except the ONE TRUE GOD (Allah in arabic).
2. Worship NONE except the ONE TRUE GOD.

All of the prophets taught that message (Oneness of GOD) to their respective people, and warned them of the consequences of disobedience.

I hope I have clarified this matter.

[RBphoto]

Adam, doh mean to beat a dead horse, but can you wrap your head around the fact that Hindu people do not consider themselves polytheist?

[Kasey]

Adam, doh mean to beat a dead horse, but can you wrap your head around the fact that Hindu people do not consider themselves polytheist?

I dont think he could understand that hindus believe in ONE god also. This has been re-iterated MANY times.

[MG Man]

As to your question - After the flood, Noah's children went their separate ways to repopulate the world. .

please explain how they got from Mt Ararat to the american continent and the Australian continent please

For that, scientists have their explanations and time lines. Do your research. They used fossils, genetics and whatever else to determine the movement of humans out of Africa to the rest of the world.

Something interesting is that a study suggests that about 100,000 - 70,000 years ago, humans were at the brink of extinction, with only a small group of people being alive. That's because human genetics are so similar, even from people on opposite sides of the world. From that small group of surviving people, the whole of mankind developed. That happened to be around the same time humans started moving out of Africa into the Middle East then populate the rest of the world. Sounds consistent with Noah's ark story. In fact that human dispersal theory is called the Noah's ark model.

As for whether God sent warners/messengers to each group of people as the Quran says, there is no proof of this, just pure belief based on the Quran. But remember we are talking about time periods of tens of thousands of years. As Bible and Quran stories will show, e.g. Moses, people are very quick to turn against the message and the message can get corrupted very quickly and even lost within a few generations.

first off, ararat is not in Africa.............do your research: 'humans' were not on the brink of extinction. There were different types of humanoid bipeds around, one of which was more successful than the others....regarding human genetics being so similar, our genetic makeup is also remarkably similar to that of the pig.......and if you gonna try to use science to explain the bible, you already off on a bad foot..........the world according to the bible is around 6,000 years old, yet you are quoting examples dating back 70k years ago

[RBphoto]

^^^^I begining to like like religion... logic hurts my head too much.

[Dizzy28]

As to your question - After the flood, Noah's children went their separate ways to repopulate the world. .

please explain how they got from Mt Ararat to the american continent and the Australian continent please

For that, scientists have their explanations and time lines. Do your research. They used fossils, genetics and whatever else to determine the movement of humans out of Africa to the rest of the world.

Something interesting is that a study suggests that about 100,000 - 70,000 years ago, humans were at the brink of extinction, with only a small group of people being alive. That's because human genetics are so similar, even from people on opposite sides of the world. From that small group of surviving people, the whole of mankind developed. That happened to be around the same time humans started moving out of Africa into the Middle East then populate the rest of the world. Sounds consistent with Noah's ark story. In fact that human dispersal theory is called the Noah's ark model.

As for whether God sent warners/messengers to each group of people as the Quran says, there is no proof of this, just pure belief based on the Quran. But remember we are talking about time periods of tens of thousands of years. As Bible and Quran stories will show, e.g. Moses, people are very quick to turn against the message and the message can get corrupted very quickly and even lost within a few generations.

first off, ararat is not in Africa.............do your research: 'humans' were not on the brink of extinction. There were different types of humanoid bipeds around, one of which was more successful than the others....regarding human genetics being so similar, our genetic makeup is also remarkably similar to that of the pig.......and if you gonna try to use science to explain the bible, you already off on a bad foot..........the world according to the bible is around 6,000 years old, yet you are quoting examples dating back 70k years ago

[AdamB]

Adam, doh mean to beat a dead horse, but can you wrap your head around the fact that Hindu people do not consider themselves polytheist?

I dont think he could understand that hindus believe in ONE god also. This has been re-iterated MANY times.

Guys,
My opinion and the opinion of followers of religions that have exceeded the limits is not of any value. What is of value is the opinion of GOD ALMIGHTY and what HE says goes.

So, someone or a whole religion may not "believe" that they are polytheists but if GOD BELIEVES that they are, then who will be the judge over them? And who will they be able to call as a helper when GOD's punishment is executed on them?

I seek Allah's protection from falling prey to such a situation.

[TonyM]

LOL so now you are saying it is not what you think you believe, it is what God thinks you believe.



keep moving the goal posts

[RBphoto]

^^It is what AdamB thinks that god thinks that you believe is what god thinks that he believes that he thinks...... I am so confused Ive gone crosseyed

[TonyM]

and to pseudorandom who is saying the Quran is infallible. Why then does it talk about the sun going around the earth? We all know now that the earth goes around the sun.

same lack of logic here too

how so?

so God gave them a new language and scattered them around the earth miraculously

yes! according to the source that bluefete quoted from

but somehow forgot to give them any teachings of himself as one God

no !slow down now, he didn't forget! it is you who forgot to examine the same source quoted before drawing such a conclusion!!.the same source that said he gave them different languages also says that

so he gave them Apache religion because the American indians believed there was a God power for each animal and greatness of nature that they saw.

The Caribs and Arawaks believed this too, but then Columbus brought Christianity here and so he killed out almost all the "evil" Caribs and Aarawaks and converted the rest. Good going God!

Plus what you are saying does not mesh with what the Muslims are saying, so which God is the right God to believe in?

It's one thing to believe in religion, but you guys cannot even agree with each other!

[pioneer]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=455384

I guess GOD felt that she had enough and took her to be with him



I guess GOD felt that she had enough and took her to be with him



I guess GOD felt that she had enough and took her to be with him