Manning apologises to the country

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

history has already proven that every single time that party got into power they destroyed the country, brought about racial tension and basically stolen the resources.

So we should praise someone who says they are sorry for that?

[16 cycles]

The way you simplify our economy boom would make one think that Venezuela (now in possession of the world largest energy reserves) would have a higher growth rate than China.

T&T didn't win a lottery, it was carefully strategised plan that allow us to be properly position for the windfall. A plan that is now the case study for other developing nations that have come into new oil reserves. It allowed us to improve many of our infrastructure and did reduce our poverty, illiteracy, debt and unemployment levels, with record monetary reserves in tact.

Was there waste, yes, was the corruption, yes. But don't be so myopic to think that it stopped on May 24 2010 and we are now riding into the sunset.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proven_reserves

^something to think about when mentioning reserves...

[Scoobert Bauce]

When the current PM in an interview expressed her biggest mistake as PM was putting Reshmi Ramnarine to head a major national security agency she never apologised, neither did I see any of you calling for her to apologise. Love him or hate him, as you continue to look through the two P's in front your eyes, he has done many things to make us proud, together with his mistakes. And if you think otherwise please hand back to the government of T&T your GATE tuition and sit down and enjoy the ride this current government is carrying us on with the same mistakes worthy of apology, only difference being that we are making less money.

you are simply the most retarded poster I've come across in a while. Thank you for convincing me of that. wasting a decade of surplus only to be now in deficit spending requires a lot more than an "apology." Discontinuing Caroni 1975 and having the country spending hundreds of millions of dollars on sugar and rice to import when we could make it here deserves a lot more than an "apology." signing an amnesty with the perpretrator of the biggest travesty against the country requires a lot more than an "apology." spending well over a billion dollars on an iron tower of garbage on the highway, that is yet to finish, you gonna need a little more than an apology. You want me to go on, little special child?

[Scoobert Bauce]

Was there waste, yes, was the corruption, yes. But don't be so myopic to think that it stopped on May 24 2010 and we are now riding into the sunset.

Ok, fair enough. So all the problems that began under Manning, do you belive that it is fitting to lay blame at the feet of the PP? I dont advocate for either side, I just think before I talk

[Habit7]

I will try and comment on your post to the degree that it is comprehensible to me and others who don't speak rant. The closure of Caroni 1975 Ltd was largely because it failed to make a profit...since 1975. Secondly, I believe you are talking about the Coup which the NAR gov't signed and amnesty with the Jamaat... if I have to explain this to you we should stop here. And thirdly, building real estate while we are renting could never be a mistake.

The mistake is spending too much for it, which we did. But another mistake is taking place when 80% of Nicholas Tower (private office space) is rented out to gov't while the finished gov't office staff is vacant.

[Scoobert Bauce]

I will try and comment on your post to the degree that it is comprehensible to me and others who don't speak rant. The closure of Caroni 1975 Ltd was largely because it failed to make a profit...since 1975.

fair enough.

Secondly, I believe you are talking about the Coup which the NAR gov't signed and amnesty with the Jamaat... if I have to explain this to you we should stop here. And thirdly, building real estate while we are renting could never be a mistake.

erm... Really? Spending the budget allocation on empty buildings isnt a mistake? What Offices are in the Waterfront buildings? Nothing is in those buildings, while the Govt has to pay a million dollars a month to the owner of the building where COSTAATT City Campus is housed in. Not to mention UdeCOTT San fernando Office, aka the 275 million dollar snakepen. AND The Brian Lara stadium in toruba, which is like what, four times overbudget now. Then theres the HDC houses that are crumbling all over the country right now.Tell me, With the amount of money that was spent between 2001 and 2009(well over 600 billion dollars) do you think that money was spent well? Do you see value for money? You know we borrowing from the IMF now right?

The mistake is spending too much for it, which we did. .

lol @ yoour attempt to make this look insignificant. So I'll spell it slow for you. We. went. from. having. PLENTY MONEY... to OWING MONEY... put lipstick on a pig, its still a mudda cunnt pig.

[Scoobert Bauce]

oh yeah and

Was there waste, yes, was the corruption, yes. But don't be so myopic to think that it stopped on May 24 2010 and we are now riding into the sunset.

Ok, fair enough. So all the problems that began under Manning, do you belive that it is fitting to lay blame at the feet of the PP? I dont advocate for either side, I just think before I talk

[Habit7]

erm... Really? Spending the budget allocation on empty buildings isnt a mistake? What Offices are in the Waterfront buildings? Nothing is in those buildings,

Here is where I cease being drawn into your folly, you must be living in the 'and' in Trinidad and Tobago.

P.S. check out channel 11 on Flow digital (if you all get Flow digital on and)

[Dizzy28]

Habit,

Tuners come on and rant bout rapists and murders and so forth. I am sure we not willing to take no apology from any of them for the crimes they committed and so too I am not buying no apology from Manning. Imo he has committed so much missteps a mere sorry cannot cut it and his bad outweighs his good.

1. Summits with no purpose. Do we even know the real costs of SoA and Chogm?
2. Allowing Udecott to do what they did (Manning gave Calder the free rein that he had). No need to elaborate further.
3. Personally intervening in Personnel matters that the courts proved he was wrong. By this I refer to those public servants whose promotions Manning personally declined only for the courts to say rule against him by which time it was too late for those persons.
4. Under his watch is when kidnapping became an industry. Murders increased exponentially and a certain Mr. Big was never named
5. Guanapo Church/Juliana Pena
6. Remember the Maha Sabha radio licence? Well Manning as is his custom personally interfered in this and the Privy Council ruled in favour of the Maha Sabha
7. The secret scholarships which Manning alleged referred party hacks to for benefits
and the list goes on

I willing to also do a list of mis steps that the PP do that I eh want to take a mere apology for too but since this is a Manning thread......

[Habit7]

I agree wholeheartedly with you, these and many other terrible mistakes that the Patrick Manning lead administration did and they reaped the hearty reward of this on May 24th 2010. It is up to the individual to accept/reject Mr Manning offer of apology.
However when tuners rant about things that weren't true and juxtapose Manning's ills to the current administration and proclaim them to be innocent, that causes me to speak up and try to enlighten said tuners.
Some tuners remind me of PNM supporters who pacified themselves with UNC corruption convictions while denying any PNM wrongdoing. Now PP supporters are pacifying themselves with PNM allegations and the cycle continues.

[Scoobert Bauce]

erm... Really? Spending the budget allocation on empty buildings isnt a mistake? What Offices are in the Waterfront buildings? Nothing is in those buildings,

Here is where I cease being drawn into your folly, you must be living in the 'and' in Trinidad and Tobago.

P.S. check out channel 11 on Flow digital (if you all get Flow digital on and)

lmao. Retard, Prove me wrong then. If I live in 'and' you must live in the space between the words because that seems to be all there is between your ears inside your head.

oh and

Was there waste, yes, was the corruption, yes. But don't be so myopic to think that it stopped on May 24 2010 and we are now riding into the sunset.

Ok, fair enough. So all the problems that began under Manning, do you belive that it is fitting to lay blame at the feet of the PP? I dont advocate for either side, I just think before I talk

Answer the question, special child

[Scoobert Bauce]

I agree wholeheartedly with you, these and many other terrible mistakes that the Patrick Manning lead administration did and they reaped the hearty reward of this on May 24th 2010. It is up to the individual to accept/reject Mr Manning offer of apology.
However when tuners rant about things that weren't true and juxtapose Manning's ills to the current administration and proclaim them to be innocent, that causes me to speak up and try to enlighten said tuners.
Some tuners remind me of PNM supporters who pacified themselves with UNC corruption convictions while denying any PNM wrongdoing. Now PP supporters are pacifying themselves with PNM allegations and the cycle continues.

thats because events in a past administration can either make it easier and/or more difficult for the administration coming after it. An election dosent set the country back to zero. dude, just stop.

[Dizzy28]

I agree wholeheartedly with you, these and many other terrible mistakes that the Patrick Manning lead administration did and they reaped the hearty reward of this on May 24th 2010. It is up to the individual to accept/reject Mr Manning offer of apology.
However when tuners rant about things that weren't true and juxtapose Manning's ills to the current administration and proclaim them to be innocent, that causes me to speak up and try to enlighten said tuners.
Some tuners remind me of PNM supporters who pacified themselves with UNC corruption convictions while denying any PNM wrongdoing. Now PP supporters are pacifying themselves with PNM allegations and the cycle continues.

And this why no matter how much we GDP go to and no mater what any world body says we would never be developed.

1st world infrastructure+3rd world thinking

[Habit7]

And this why no matter how much we GDP go to and no mater what any world body says we would never be developed.

1st world infrastructure+3rd world thinking

Well as I said in another thread, as it took a while for us to achieve a developed country GDP, it would take time for us to achieve developed country infrastructure, culture, public service, health care (although England and Canada may have us looking good), policing, etc.

[Dizzy28]

And this why no matter how much we GDP go to and no mater what any world body says we would never be developed.

1st world infrastructure+3rd world thinking

Well as I said in another thread, as it took a while for us to achieve a developed country GDP, it would take time for us to achieve developed country infrastructure, culture, public service, health care (although England and Canada may have us looking good), policing, etc.

Bu the most critical element in those pillars are people. So when we give police and health and education billions but nurses thiefing out the food, police still corrupt as fcuk and teachers stay home whenever they feel like even though they legally get like 4 months off for the year anyhow then we would remain developing no matter what.

I say it without regrets. Trinis do not have the attitudes and behaviours for us to become developed. And from what we seeing in other threads wrt to young children the future not looking so rosy.

[AllTrac]

Scoobert Bauce, you can make your contribution without being childish and calling names. The conversation is healthy and if you cant be an adult about it, then consider this your only warning.

[Scoobert Bauce]

Scoobert Bauce, you can make your contribution without being childish and calling names. The conversation is healthy and if you cant be an adult about it, then consider this your only warning.

youre kidding, right? Its been back and forth, doh come round me with dat, If yuh warnin warn everybody

[AllTrac]

good bye.

[toyota2nr]

Without resorting to name calling and insults I have to say Habit7 you're sadly mistaken.

There is absolutely no reason why any right thinking person of T&T should accept the apology of Patrick Manning. As stated above our country enjoyed a boom and a lot of revenue yet it was totally wasted under the previous government.

Under the previous government crime went up exponentially and we all know the cause for that, food prices doubled and tripled in some cases especially since Caroni 1975 was maliciously closed down, the average citizen can no longer afford a home and now has to turn to HDC, the health system crumbled, the education system turned out more bandits. There was a general feeling of hopelessness in T&T under the PNM.

Why should we accept the apology of a man who stated that we are all collateral damage?

[RIPEBREDFRUIT]

Habit7- if he is TRULY sorry for what he has done, then why doesnt he help bring , the Lady who was building the ILLEGAL church on the hill to justice?, the then corrupt head of UDecott to justice?, we could go on forever, but what is, is exacly what is..................... we all know better.

[Greypatch]

ahahahahahahah

[shogun]

^lawwd! i see another K74t avatar in the making there.

[Habit7]

Under the previous government crime went up exponentially and we all know the cause for that, food prices doubled and tripled in some cases especially since Caroni 1975 was maliciously closed down, the average citizen can no longer afford a home and now has to turn to HDC, the health system crumbled, the education system turned out more bandits. There was a general feeling of hopelessness in T&T under the PNM.

While I respect your choice for not accepting his apology allow me to correct your perception of T&T under Manning's administration.

While crime did increase, it was also felt throughout the region (Central America, Venezuela, Jamaica, St. Lucia. St. Kitts, etc). Murders peaked in 2008 but 2009 and 2010 both maintained a 7% reduction with this year receiving 15% (before the SoE). Food prices did increase because of external factors and increased liquidity in the local market (which is bad or good based on how you see it). I explained Caroni 1975 Ltd earlier, it made no money for 28 years. I won't say that the average citizen can not afford a home, housing costs have been on the increase in T&T despite the bursting of the housing bubble in the US. If there was little demand then the housing cost would decrease. In fact there has been more private sector housing drives than ever before. The increase in HDC housing is a result of the greater thrust of gov't housing than ever before (no other gov't ever built houses) but the need for repairs of some of these homes is sad has caused a large number of them to stay unoccupied. The current gov't reluctance to repair them is contemptuous and has caused some of them tobe vandalised.

Health care... cant really defend that one too strong, more could have been done, but while some may call for more hospitals, we need more personnel (trust me, my wife is deep in the system). "Education system turning out bandits" is mere poppycock, no other time in T&T have we had more FREE opportunity to further and acquire education, why you and others complain, I know I using it, and I ain't any special scholarship recipient. We might have to thank our current PM for the illiterate children in our secondary schools today, who could still navigate around any porn blocking software on the gov't laptops.

In the last 10 years T&T has seen tremendous growth in different sectors together with wasteful spending in some areas. But to consider it all to be horrible is kind of ridiculous. I think sometimes some trinis can't appreciate all that has happened over the years because they are on the inside looking out but for those on the outside looking in, it has been a model approach to development.

[Dizzy28]

Habit.....
I do not argue with you on the successes of the PNM. We disagree on the balance between the good and bad I suppose.

But pray tell our approach to development is a model to whom? Haiti, Zimbabwe, Laos.

Most academics in economic development would tell you that our model of development was poorly developed based solely on the extraction of a depleting resource and the massive loss of GDP through subsidies and transfers.
The PNM fine tuned the gimme gimme syndrome which took our revenues and channeled it into non revenue generating sources. CEPEP, the beloved HDC just to name a few.

With the amount of revenues generated between 2003 - 2010 it is a tremendous travesty that we are where we are today.

[Habit7]

Ghana entered into an agreement for Trinidad to give consultation on how to reproduce a Point Lisas in there country. They were impressed by the way we not only gained oil and gas revenues, but created profitable downstream industries for them. Currently that agreement is being undermined because the Chinese are doing a better job of wooing them for the lucrative consultation contract.

While I see everyone's memory being sharper than it was on 23 May 2010, I hope we remember what has and hasn't transpired in the last 18 months. The principles which they campaigned on are being trashed in front of the citizens of T&T and when they are questioned about it, they pull out 3 year old scandals. I wonder how long this will continue until we wake up.

[toyota2nr]

Habit let me just answer a few of what you posted.

It MY belief (opinion) that the increase in crime was a direct result of the former PM (Project Manager) cutting deals with gang leaders also known as community leaders in order to secure votes. It's no secret that deceased Mark Guerra had the personal phone number of Patrick Manning. The then PM also gave out hefty URP contracts to these gangsters as well as having the meetings with these criminals in Crowne Plaza. These people were involved in every crime under the sun yet Patrick felt it necessary to give the country's patrimony to them.

Food prices increased due to the closure of Caroni 1975. We would no longer be involved in dairy, sugar etc and we now have to import what we once made. When last you saw the price of a tin on condensed milk. Before Patrick it was about $3.00. Caroni made no money but it was the bread basket of the country, all that was needed was to restructure the company not close it down.

No other gov't built houses because there was no need to but PNM changed all that now a home is no longer affordable. More people are applying to HDC.

I have said and will say again I supported the rapid rail and tall buildings but it came at too high a cost for T&T.

[Dizzy28]

^Oho so you mean our energy development model and not national development model.
But to put things into perspective Oil and gas account for about 40% of GDP and 80% of exports, but only 5% of employment (world bank 2010). This is not necessarily the development you want unless you have alternative diversification measures. The PNM had some token stuff but still relied almost exclusively on oil and gas.

All the shiet the PP doing (and they have quite a bucket full by now) the party that over saw the boom itself and was there for 8 years consecutively have to shoulder heavy blame for economic performances right now. Stagnation doh just happen jus so.
Diversification should have started a long time ago.

[sMASH]

bauce (/rant)
(rant) sMASH


pnm did not have enough development for the length of time they were on the scenes for the amount of money they were in control of... plain and simple.

habit, take the article in the papers with manning's apology to the parlor and aks to buy a bottle water, i sure they would tell u that u need $5.50 more to get the water.

so he apologize, what exactly for again? is it the 2 mil flag? this flag scenario is the flag ship scenario to describe the pnm's term in office, excuse the pun. yes u got development, but at a cost that is extremely disproportionate, and development that is not necessarily necessary. there are some things that we just do not need.


they cut a deal with dupre to get clico energy by using tax payers dollars to pay out the debts. clico is a private institution, and if it can't pay its bills, then it should have went bankrupt. if u are inline with those who had money in clico and say it too big to let fall, then understand that that is highly irregular for a government to interfere in private business. nigeria at the same time, had a bank with a similar situation to clico. nigeria did not prop up the bank and encourage the malpractise, no. they let the bank fall, and because it was so detrimental for its citizens, they jailed and prosecuted the bank's directors. what did pnm do, they agreed to pay out the debts, and let dupre buy it back at the low cost per share as long as he got back his money. who in the pnm made the deal, thiefchera, who had so much money in it, and was the finance minister at the time.

if u still say they should stick to propping up clico because it is in the best interest of the citizens, then they should have kept caroni. but not as it is, they needed to improve it and get the corruption out. the lively hood of so many citizens, directly and indirectly was tied to this company. it needed diversification and management retrofit. but seeing as it was perceived to be indo trinidadian, then why not, let it fall.

fossil fuels are finite. pnm created development based on fossil fuels. when they are gone, we would not have much to fall back on. the money we get from the petro chemical industries is a lot but not enough employment comes from it. so the country has money but not as much jobs to distribute through legitimately. so what u have to do, give them the money, i.e. free house, free food, lil cepep wuk.

keep caroni, but modify it, under what ever name, and u have a perpetual industry, self sustaining. this would make jobs readily available. hard work yes, but nothing worth getting is easy to get. we would be able to feed ourselves better. instead of buying staples from outside, we would be able to make it our selves thus reducing our food import bill significantly, to only the unique items we cannot produce here, like apples and pears.
if we get it right, we could export on a greater scale to other nations and actually gain income. and this would be sustaining.
the money would be small, but we could continue to get it, as opposed to fossil fuels which would run out, and soon.

manning's apology is not enough for what he did,

police and hospitals still undeveloped. not underdeveloped, undeveloped. if not more corrupt.


and for the religious out here, when adam(pbuh) ate a fruit, god took his apology, but still punish him for the misdeed.

[sMASH]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... qXpcgDNN2A

[toyota2nr]

Mr. Speaker I beg to move.......