The Quest for a Great System

[DJ Q]

Thanks for the contact SR.

He advised that I come to the shop to hear the tempo's as he thinks Powerbass to Supremo is too big a jump. I guess I'll go down and hear what he has.

If anyone's viewing this thread:

Tempo X: $1,200
Tempo: $1,400
Hybrid Ovation: $3,300
Elate: $7,000
Supremo: $11,200

[nervewrecker]

I will check you monday, I have something for you. same place?

[GVTrini07]

I guess I'll go down and hear what he has.

IMO best way to decide. Be patient. Do a lot of research and demo before you make up your mind. The most expensive set won't necessarly be what you are looking for in a sound system. Be sure to get details from the dealer about what installation requirements (eq, dampening and crossover) to get that sound when demoing.

Your not into SQ competition but looking for that up front bass? Be sure to enquire about the mechanical limitation of that wee 6.5 woofer. It may not be mechanical limitation which will be heard immediately. Spiders, suspensions etc may get week over time playing low frequencys.

Some expensive woofers have lighter cones which may result in better attack and decay (may) or have lower 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion plots, but not produce the type of upfront bass you looking for.

In terms of sound, may be a 6.5 is not your answer? Maybe your looking at a 9" in a custom fibreglass enclosure e.g soundstream 626 if I am correct . If he is willing you can ask if you can get a demo. There are great installers on the forum who can do this and maintain Car functionality and appearance.

Sorry to hijack yuh ched but, I would love to demo a pair of dynaudio 6.5 esotar2 and some 4" Revelators! But thats me!

[Ted_v2]

I guess I'll go down and hear what he has.

IMO best way to decide. Be patient. Do a lot of research and demo before you make up your mind. The most expensive set won't necessarly be what you are looking for in a sound system. Be sure to get details from the dealer about what installation requirements (eq, dampening and crossover) to get that sound when demoing.

Your not into SQ competition but looking for that up front bass? Be sure to enquire about the mechanical limitation of that wee 6.5 woofer. It may not be mechanical limitation which will be heard immediately. Spiders, suspensions etc may get week over time playing low frequencys.

Some expensive woofers have lighter cones which may result in better attack and decay (may) or have lower 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion plots, but not produce the type of upfront bass you looking for.

In terms of sound, may be a 6.5 is not your answer? Maybe your looking at a 9" in a custom fibreglass enclosure e.g soundstream 626 if I am correct . If he is willing you can ask if you can get a demo. There are great installers on the forum who can do this and maintain Car functionality and appearance.

Sorry to hijack yuh ched but, I would love to demo a pair of dynaudio 6.5 esotar2 and some 4" Revelators! But thats me!

heard his and damn it plays Clean yet loud ( i got a demo and the back seat was shaking with the midbasses yet not harsh for the persons in the front seats)

sweetest comps i ever heard so far

[silent_riot]

Yeah DJ Q, demo and buy what you prefer. Pay attention to the processing thats involved in the system as well.

[evolution7tt]

heard his and damn it plays Clean yet loud ( i got a demo and the back seat was shaking with the midbasses yet not harsh for the persons in the front seats)

sweetest comps i ever heard so far

I doubt the seats were shaking from the midbass. It could have been the sub that was practically against the back seat..... just saying.

[Ted_v2]

heard his and damn it plays Clean yet loud ( i got a demo and the back seat was shaking with the midbasses yet not harsh for the persons in the front seats)

sweetest comps i ever heard so far

I doubt the seats were shaking from the midbass. It could have been the sub that was practically against the back seat..... just saying.

possibly

[nervewrecker]

evolution7tt talking like his midbass dont move peoples clothes *rollseyes* lol

[evolution7tt]

Before.... a lil but yes, now? Damn skippy! They go lower now too. But we digress.... DJ Q has to let us know how his demos went.

[nervewrecker]

^^^

I call dibs on first rounds for next demo.

btw....

a 9" in a custom fibreglass enclosure

I have heard talk that these can be used for that upfront bass in places other than in the doors. *shrugs shoulders*

[Soundstream_626]

Well yeah, DK has one smack dab in the middle of his dashboard in the forester. There are other things you can do to get a better sense of upfront bass even if u dont want to do what i did or what evolution7tt did physically. We both played with the phase of the sub in the back and both played with the delay of the entire front stage rather than just one side.

At the end of the day though if you`re like me and your bass is a bajillion db higher in level than the rest of your spectrum you will be able to localize it to the rear.

[DJ Q]

So I went all the way down Princess Town on Friday.

Basic conclusion is that I need to fix my car first, then re-dampen. I have to be honest when I say I didn't think of adding more layers to my already dampened doors. It was also suggested to use a higher quality of damping such as Damplifier Pro (I think?). TheWiseOne suggested 3 layers on each door but I have to pull off all the old Cascade Audio one and clean the door first.

Before I even continue I have to commend TheWiseOne for not being a typical salesman. He was concerned about achieving the result that I was looking for and not just get a big sale. Props to you man.

So first we went through my system and what I'm trying to achieve, the equipment that I'm using and my budget (of which there is none). After explaining that I'm not going up for competition and am not looking to go 3-way, or get a whole set of paraphernalia to configure, he demoed a system that he had set up in the shop. One 6.5 Morel Tempo (the lowest line) woofer and 1" silk tweeter in a box paired with a clarion sub in the wrong enclosure. He admitted that the sub was in the wrong enclosure and that it wouldn't blend, which he was correct... the bass sucked. However I must say I was pleasantly surprised at how loud the tempo got. My friend and I stood there with "OMG" painted across our faces.

After a couple tunes, we went out to my car where he realised how big the 2 doors were and laughed that I'd need more damping than the average 4-door (not funny yo...), however I should gain an advantage in upfront bass thanks to that size. In listening to my set and explaining where I was lacking, I actually saw the lightbulb light up.

He knew exactly what I was looking for and explained his recommendation:

Re-Dampen the doors with Damplifier Pro
Go Active with a 6 Channel Zed Audio Amplifier (300rms x6)
Go with Morel Elate rather than Supremo as most likely, Supremo is overkill for my application.

Liking this idea so far.
Keep bringing the ideas people...

[- Rovin's car audio -]

my doors have 3 layers (2 on d door skin & 1 on d outer panel) & i didnt do it with d thought of sq or spl - i just hate hearing rattles & wanted good midbass for a everyday system

ur doors r really a bit longer than most thats true

i heard those tempos in a car already & it does get loud when u need it to , i have a set of ovation 2 to install in my wagon since last yr i have it sitting idle but im gonna use it soon ....

[nervewrecker]

hmph, I was by his distributor on friday.

just yesterday I was reading about the 6 channel zed audio amps as an alternative to the JL's.

[pimptacular]

those zed are great..and the power you get from them it laughs at jl and alpine...and the morels do need power to really shine

but q.. what about the rest of ur system? subwoofer? headunit? processing?

you wont buy a bently and put cheap tires and cheap gas in it would u?

[DJ Q]

I'm using a 7100BT
Currently have a JBL P1022 in a box that's wayyy too big.

My aim is Deck -> amp -> speakers

I'd buy the prs but I don't want to get that stupid module. And YES I need my bluetooth.

Just want to keep it simple.

[evolution7tt]

One 6.5 Morel Tempo (the lowest line) woofer and 1" silk tweeter in a box I must say I was pleasantly surprised at how loud the tempo got. My friend and I stood there with "OMG" painted across our faces.

Go Active with a 6 Channel Zed Audio Amplifier (300rms x6)

Liking this idea so far.
Keep bringing the ideas people...

Endorsed! That single morel is pretty darn loud, with no hint of cone breakup / distortion.

Zed audio?? Nuff said. Awesome amplifier.

[GVTrini07]

He knew exactly what I was looking for and explained his recommendation:

Re-Dampen the doors with Damplifier Pro
Go Active with a 6 Channel Zed Audio Amplifier (300rms x6)
Go with Morel Elate rather than Supremo as most likely, Supremo is overkill for my application.

Liking this idea so far.
Keep bringing the ideas people...

Good advice! Seen some installs here which have skimped on the Dampening. Not only you need the "flash band" stuff, but you may also need foam, "sponge, mattress, ensolite, egg crate" call it what you want. Up front bass in doors creates havoc in your doors and you would need to get rig of any unwanted vibrations. Remember doors contains mechanical parts for your windows as well as thin plastic which can vibrate like a headbanger on steroids. Doors are basically thin sheet material. Think about banging against them square metal water tanks on the side "the ones we used to use before ROTOPLASTIC came on the scene... Yeah that one.. yuh grandparents had 2 in they back yard." If you had, then you get the idea. Dampen inside the door (reverse side to the exterior of the car, and on the panel to the inside. Dampen behind the upholstry also. Proper door treatment is key to any proficient bass up front. If you don't, well best you place a loaded M16 on your doors, fire them off and call that music.

Elates I have been using them and they put out serious amounts of bass. I had them crossed one time at 30Hz and they did play without distortion. Competed in SQ competition with them crossed at 30 Hz also. Crossing them so low however detoriates the mechanical properties of the speaker rather quickly.

Levaitian I have used also. 6 Channels, tons of flexibility, lots of power and easy on the battery. Hell yeah!

Was the set you demo in Car or in shop? Give us a little review of the set musically also... Please?

[DJ Q]

^My set or his?

My set was in my car

His set was on the wall in the shop. Couldn't get the real sensation of midbass since it was in a little box... but it was "omg" loud. Scream to talk to each other kind of loud.

Musically, in the shop, as I said... the bass didn't blend and it sounded like an almera with a bass processor

Now when you guys say dampen the panel on the inside does that mean i'm doing 3 panels of damping?

In other words:
- Panel right under the door
- Reverse of that SAME panel <-?
- Inside of door

[jeff]

did someone say elate?

i can arrange a demo for you if you are in town

[nervewrecker]

^^^

ignore jeff, everytime I hear his system I wanna spend $$$! he is a bad influence.

but serious, if you goin q, inbox me, I wanna go too. just to tag along & take a listen.

[GVTrini07]

^My set or his?

My set was in my car

His set was on the wall in the shop. Couldn't get the real sensation of midbass since it was in a little box... but it was "omg" loud. Scream to talk to each other kind of loud.

Musically, in the shop, as I said... the bass didn't blend and it sounded like an almera with a bass processor

Now when you guys say dampen the panel on the inside does that mean i'm doing 3 panels of damping?

In other words:
- Panel right under the door
- Reverse of that SAME panel <-?
- Inside of door

Get a demo of those in Car, in a car environment.

I have a set of 6.5 elates installed and from South. As per above, Jeff can give you a demo from North.

What about the musical aspect of your search for components? I know you said you wanted up front bass, but you said nothing about your musical requirements?

Are you going to demo other products?

As far as the dampening goes, I did one section at a time over a 1 - 2 Year period as time and money became available. Did the inside of the door, outer part where the speaker is bolted onto, and behind the plastic upholstry. Padded between the plastic upholstry and the metal panel where the speaker is bolted onto with closed cell foam.

Jeff has a thread on decoupling door speakers. Padding between the speaker and baffel and baffel and door. I used dynamat and plastacine. Most of the dampening can be done effectively with cheaper stuff providing you willing to experiment and willing to do over and over and over until you get somewhere.

Start with one section and listen, depending on your vehicle, you may not need to go full blown out on dampening.

[DJ Q]

did someone say elate?

i can arrange a demo for you if you are in town

Hit me a pm with your location and we'll see when our schedules can match up.

[GVTrini07]

Any further updates? What did you finally decide on? What was the selling factor on your decision? What else have you demoed and your impression?

[DJ Q]

Well unfortunately, I haven't been able to update this thread for several reasons.
Mostly because I have to get my car fixed before August ($16,000) also I got a ticket even though I had three people in my car on the bus route (got the time wrong) so that's another $2,000 there.

*Ugh*

With God everything has a reason yes...

[SR]

will send u a pm later

but you need the hear the new dls rs6n components under 2 k a set

[Aaron 2NR]

^ heard em and was really impressed......pioneer those are the components i told you about yesterday

[DJ Q]

will send u a pm later

but you need the hear the new dls rs6n components under 2 k a set

I'd like to hear them

[silent_riot]

DJ Q, you should attend some SQ shows.
You can listen to a wide variety of components of varying price ranges.
The DLS SR is talking about are very good for under 2k a set.
There are cheaper/more expensive sets that you can hear and see which matches your preferences best.

[DJ Q]

Ok well I'll look out on the ICE group on FB for the next event.