FAIRPLAY IN CAR SHOWS

[who s next]

GOOD DAY ALL
can any one on this forum recommend ways to help fairness
in car shows eg: a better way of judgeing
my take is quality in shows is falling big time
eg: some shows cost to enter & compete is crazyness


this jus my views

[SR]

interesting post

even though its not an iasca question it still concerns iasca as it can also mean issuse with iasca
as well as iasca is interested when it comes to judging and rules

please keep comments to facts

[D.A.B]

price is really ridiculous! for what jus a trophy...

[speedemonz]

What is the return on someone investing the amount of resources required to present a "show vehicle".
I for one who have been in and around the game for a number of years believe it is a waste of time for the private builder. The shop owners who build customer cars will derive some monetary benefit with having a forum to showcase their handy work.
Like everything in Trinidad is all about who you know and who know you, so more times than not is ah 'friend thing'.
Also I will not be paying a ridiculous fee to enter into a show to make ah next man profit on my sweet and tears. I know it may not happen in my life time but promoters should pay the vehicle owners, that way the promoter can chose who he wants in his show and not just because ah pay 200 to bring in meh car in de arena. This arrangement would lead to more quality builds because you want to be selected, thus eventually leading us away from the what I call the 'cookie cutter show car' ie. chrome rims, loud paint and any combination of strobes,neons,hid's etc. and really cause a prospective builder to do something different to set himself apart. Just my 2cents.

[SR]

promoters "pay" vehicles to come to thier shows

never happen never will

does a promoter "pay" for you to come and race your vehicle at a track...NO

if you are into competition you pay to compete no matter how much money you have invested in it
if you think u need to be paid to bring your vehicle for a competition then maybe this is not the sport for you and you should invest your money in somthing else
maybe a savings account

now if your vehicle is coming for "show" then i am sure somthing can be worked out with the promoter as you said he will be benefiting from it
i guess offer a tent for you to display your vehicle in (for private owners)

if its business then thats another case


with regards to the arena issue
i am all for either prequalifications ie maybe a round robin competition or somthing to bring it down to either the best 2 or 3 cars that will now move forward into the arena to play for the crowd (assmuing we are talking about crowd pleaser vehicles here)
this will eleminate the 10 or so cars spread across the arena as well as the "walk with your crowd" advantage to a point


crowd pleaser competitors need to earn that trophy not buy it by bringin in a crowd who pays to come in by the gate as thats now an expensive trophy

think about yuh walk with 30 people who payed say $50 each thats $1500 plus you payed say $200 to compete and you win crowd pleaser
you have just bought trophy for yourself at $1700 and your car din even sound good

somthing to be real proud of right

[- Rovin's car audio -]

some of d facts SR pointed out may be shocking to some ppl but d only time any show promoter does pay ppl to come to any show is if he\she have a talent like singing \ dancing \ sport \ acting etc which "CARSHOW" is not about

not pointing fingers but some ppl egos rel big boi & even from yrsss ago they feel they so big & their ride sounds so great that d promoter hadda let them & their crew come in for free , is rel expenses d promoters does have to endure so u cant get freeness , if u find u so good & dont want to pay well pull up by medford or d cross & play ur pong for free


now concerning iasca : i dunno what expenses u all have & what u charge d promoters to have u all in his show but d $180 price tag is a bit high & will discourage d newcomers to test in spl especially when all they may have is a lil knock with d usual 2 pioneer scoring a rather low 140dbs while other seasoned men up in d 150s so d small man might feel hard to pay $180 to try to see if he can manage a 2nd place since there is NO 3rd place

from what i hear : d promoter does have to pay iasca , provide d venue , pay security\police\firemen\workers & all d legal fees etc & still have to pay for d trophies for 1st & 2nd place so maybe thats why they have to charge d $180 fee - sometimes they buss if a certain number of ppl they hoping to participate does not do so but iasca still gets their fee - cant blame anybody for that since that is how it goes sometimes just like if rain fall show does buss too

(if they didnt do it already) well i suggest iasca & promoter sit down & work out a price that is more affordable to d competitor like $150 (less wud be nice too -lol) , of course for iasca world record shows we can understand if we have to pay a little more even though it shouldnt be that plenty more since we have a worldwide judge right here


final point : i cant recall when last any SPL results were announced over d mic as to who won what category & what score was made , all i hear is "all spl competitors please come to d arena" , so u dunno if u come 1st or last but u going like a fool into d arena hoping that u won & and d audience too dunno who d hell win & what was their score - so everybody in d dark , every show i walking around & ppl asking me how much i did & what other ppl got too

u dont have to hire a mc to stay by d iasca tent but why not simply get a big chalk board near d meter & write d scores so ppl know what going on like how they do it in foreign - i sure that wont cost much $\time to write it up for all to see


i will not comment on d CP aspect since that is not for this IASCA section & its for they to discuss on their forum & whoever else forum\facebook that is holding their respective shows ...

[Rodneys Audio]

I am glad to see something like this on ur forum SR must commend u on this. There must be some level of professionalism in car installation and clarity how u sound.

I have no problem paying to come in to a show it could be iasca streetwise car craft auto tracks etc...........
but there must be a level of fair play this crowd pleaser thing is getting out of hand.

PPL and installer think hanging mid boxes out there windows look good and sounds good i personally don't like it at all.

I wish to see car show like how it used to be and with more improvements we have good ppl in the music industry and we need to up ur standard to the international arenas.

for the 1st time i saw two competitors was call together and shown there flaws in the systems in a car show by a judge again i commend that because that is wat we need to do to better ur self's in the music industry.

PPL take a look at this forum and tell me wat u see or think of a promoter in the sport we all love and wat is he /she doing to help the fast falling industry
http://www.mktrinievents.com/forum/phpB ... 5&start=25

[Rodneys Audio]

Well said Rovin we had that discussion at MK show ,also i personally feel every car should be SPL once ur competing this will help the SPL competitors and newcomers also.

I for one hate to walk all the way to the back of a show to watch spl i like it but it should be in the front line of any car show event.

Why ? because this will help promote spl and the younger competitors, cars and music freaks will appreciate and understand slp a little more.

[who s next]

iasca had a world record event in samaar one weelend back
ppl paid $120.00 for spl &music category

[Rodneys Audio]

Not that only they had best trophies and a lot more cars sounding good entrance fee was $50 dollars too

[SR]

IASCA Caribbean has maintained the same sanctioning fees to promoters for the last 4 years despite increase in costs

IASCA Caribbean has no control over what a promoter charges for competition fees once the promoter has paid the sanctioning fee for the event

a World Record event costs more than a regular event for sanctioning and that increase in cost goes direct to IASCA and not to IASCA caribbean

FACT
at present sanctioning fees IASCA Caribbean makes a profit of $100TT per sanctioned event

out of which every year IASCA Caribbean has to pay its Affiliation fees as well as re calibration or purchasing of a brand new meter every year

IASCA judges pay out of thier own pocket to fly to Spring Break Nationals in daytona for judges recertification

Myself and Sacha (Sully) are the only 2 people in the Caribbean to now conduct and certify new judges as well as condict competitors training

I am the only World Record judge in the Caribbean and Latin America at this point in time

contrary to the popular belief IASCA Caribbean is NOT a show promoter and if you calculate the above figures you will note that IASCA Caribbean has been running in the red for the last couple years yet still provide fair and proper judging formats and competitions

[SR]

Rovin this thread is being kept running for the discussion of all competition in car shows
be it iasca or not as there needs to be a forum for people to express thier views on this as well as for some to be educated on the promotion side of things and maybe answer the "why's" with regards to rising costs etc

[- Rovin's car audio -]

seeing d thread was made in d iasca section i didnt want to mix in CP comments but if ppl dont mind i will contribute to that as well


thats why i said upfront i dont know how they finance what exactly but if d SPL prices cant come down for whatever reasons then d sport will remain standstill & only d few diehards will compete ...



b4 i complain too & get d promoter\s even more frustrated : i hear alot of good suggestions were made at a MK meeting recently BUT they said it will be implemented in d 2011 season so we will have to wait & see

on many occasions SR had suggestions for CP but ppl fight him down & they like it d way it is so then why shud anybody complain if they like it so !? ....from day 1 of CP ppl figured they bring 2 maxis full of ppl & u guaranteed win even if ur vehicle have 2 6x9s off deck power - no way d promoter cud tell u anything because d crowd bawl for u (had some vehicles sunday gone & in each show does sound like toots yet they friends bawling for hem & they "winning")


i dont want to get in d CP vs judge trophy size how CP bigger than judged - to avoid discrimination make d 2 d same size & who dont like it bigger well dont compete : just find a spot in d show & play


about d mids\highs hanging up thing : now on MK forum i remember they allowed ppl to do it temp in d arena for CP once it was BEHIND d window line but recently i see fellers having deep mids boxes hanging sometimes more than 3\4 out of d window ! - sunday had 1 car in particular d whole box was about 20-24" long hanging out in front d windows & nobody said anything ....so d promoters give ppl a bligh once its behind d window but imho now they really overdoing it , severe advantage over d ppl who have their mids in backdashes or who enclosures small & fitting behind d window


today a certain man told me how X wagon received more points for bass than Y wagon - i walk in front each vehicle to listen & imho from what i heard it have no way that result cud be true , u know some vehicles bassline was designed to "throw" far whiles others "throw nearer" so judges either need their hearing checked or to come out into d crowd & walk just like me to hear\feel how it is in d crowd since after all its called CP not arena pleaser but i hear they want to implement that next season so we will see ...

[Kasey]

^^sO FAR i SEE Rovin is dead-on, the real issues yes. Alot of what u said I was thinkin of too. Promoters need to realise that the moneything is not all to consider.

One main point: I carried my wife and baby to the Mannie Ramjohn show and there appeared to be no toilet facicities!!! Well at least thats what a guard told us. We had to ask the Stadium security to use theirs. Jeez man, is money all that these promoters consider??

Anyway I like the 'chalkboard by the meter' idea. I think that will be very convenient and effective.

[SR]

no disrespect kaset but why did you carry yor baby to a car show

i noticed that night that there were a few kids at the show either standing up or their parents were holding them rather close to loud playing vehicles

allyuh dont care about hearing loss....if not for yourself what about your children

as for toilet facilities i know they were available where the iasca tent was located

[Kasey]

no disrespect kaset but why did you carry yor baby to a car show

i noticed that night that there were a few kids at the show either standing up or their parents were holding them rather close to loud playing vehicles

allyuh dont care about hearing loss....if not for yourself what about your children

as for toilet facilities i know they were available where the iasca tent was located

No offense taken Shaz. But I didnt plan to carry my baby, that came up last minute. Dont want to get into the reasons here but I already promised myself that I will try to avoid that situation in the future.

By the way, if u want a volunteer to write the scores on the chalkboard, in the categories for the competetitors to see, I can do it. I find that a great idea!!! Its like a cricket score board. The public can see, and the competetors can get the recognition they deserve and hence boost motivation resulting in heightened interest in the IBDL events.

[SR]

forgot to bring it for the last show
the iasca team has to meat maybe in early january to discuss issues raised by everyone as well as look at ways to imrpove what we do

this is why it is important that everyone gives feedback here

this thread is not only for iasc issues but also for what happens in the show and the arena as the iasca team is looking at ways to find a common ground between competitors and promoters for a positive way forward

[southside connections]

i dont want to get in d CP vs judge trophy size how CP bigger than judged - to avoid discrimination make d 2 d same size & who dont like it bigger well dont compete : just find a spot in d show & play

thats never gonna change^^^

"crowd pleaser pays the bills"

and-

that is my personal liking

those were exact words from the man himself


dunno if alluh reaslise this eh, but the last ched on mk got locked when issues were brought up

so fix up, but i eh see nuttin changing in the next year at all

[casper]

same rthings ppl complaining bout is the same thing i clearly remember the "certain" promoter sayig at the competitors meeting that WILL BE INTRODUCED NEXT YEAR

first thing he said that night is that the last 2 shows he's having for the year were already budgeted and planned out so he'll be unable to put ya'll concerns in effect in these last 2 shows....after the show gone sunday dey....guess wat happen???...ppl start to complain and say how d promoter say this and that and he break he promises cuz price still high, still no placing labels on the trophies, etc etc...when @ d meeting it was clearly stated that the changes will take effect from 2011....like alya was sleepin when he said that r wah???

some ppl rel ridiculous yesss...ppl complain bout the small trophies @ finals so we fixed it and give out bigger and nicer trophies this time...ppl get 4ft and 3ft trophies an ting...and not one review of satisfaction WRT trophies...instead...they jes ignored the fact that we fixed one of their concerns and jes found somn else to complain about...some ppl is d greatest yes!!!!...

this speedemonz fellla want the promoter pay for venue, pay for bar, pay for trophies, pay for all their licenses, pay for security, pay for sanctioning fees, pay for advertising...PLUS pay competitors to come their shows??? seriously???...what d hel u feel it is boi starrrr???... u feel u in heaven or somn???...so ah man must pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to throw a show and get back ZERO money??? not even enough to break even??? ...da wazza rel idiot statement u made there jed...sorry to say

i wud love to see all these ppl who complain do it themselves and keep sane...cuz with lots of staff who helpin voluntarily and NOT gettin paid....and yuh still sometimes losing thousands and thousands and thousandszzzzzzzz of dollars...alyuh really nuh fair at all nah boi...to say and complain about some of the things alyuh complaining about...

why not talk bout d Andre fella who throw a show in space car park and take everybody competition money and buss out and had NO competitions???...hell...he didnt even have trophies readily available at d show....so wtf u think he was gonna give alyuh at d show???...most likely a fackin shake hand and a thank you...why not talk bout when tookyram throw d show in st helena eco park and d DJ start to cuss up competitors to clear out their cars from d arena???..i nuh joking or exaggerating eh..d man literally was cussing ppl...and threatening them an ting...over d mic...talk bout dat nah!!!....what about the next fella who throw show in center of excellence close to a year now and STILL havent paid IASCA for their sacnctioning jes cuz no one tested IDBL???...

SSC...u KNOW we working on fairness and satisfying everyone for the upcoming season...kill that negative talks now nah...oh gosh man...if next year come and nothing has changed....THEN complain...but dont complain when it was said from up front that we cudnt put these changes effect for the 2010 season....alyuh nuh being fair now at all man...

the only man talkin rel sense and have everything on point with no kinda biasness is Rovin....that white board thing u talkin bout izza rel flick...i'll talk to the ppl on my end about this and see what they have to say...

i can PROMISE to alyuh that things gonna change at least on our end...and if u never trusted anyone's word before or any promoter's promises....please believe mine....cuz i DONT break promises...and i does try my best to make things happen for d sake of bettering the sport....everyone that knows me well knows i'm all for fairness and i am the voice of the competitors....I PROMISE YOU ALL THINGS GONNA BE BETTER FOR ALL THE HARD WORKING ENTHUSIASTS OUT THERE...

ppl who know me can vouch for me when i say that i keep my promises....even though i'm not the big man in charge....i am a rel rel influential person who can get these concerns addressed...so jes bare with me and bare with us please...i will try my endeavour best to ensure that these changes take effect in the upcomig 2011 season...

I PROMISE!!!!

[SR]

one correction there casper

the Andre fella is extrem promotions
show was held at arima velodrome more than a year ago he clashed with a show at cntre of excellence and the waether was gloomy i advised him not to have iasca as it was last minute but he insisted and he even got a discount as i had anticipated a low turn out

about 8pm he sent someone to collect the trophies from the iasca tent and he was no where to be found

same promoter who did the space car show
same promoter under a different name who did the drift event 2 weeks ago

still owes iasca

as for the mk issue

it was stated at the meeting that changes would b implemented for the 2011 season of his events
although it wasnt stated all what changes would be made as he did say they would have to meet and discuss

[southside connections]

ok we'll give it till the next year

[viking1705]

casper your forgetting something man..he did say he will consider certain things but he also said that the size of trophies will not be changed as CP pays bills.that is what the main concerns were about in the mk forum before he locked it.

another thing is that he cant be the only one having expenses.the trophies 3ft yes but quality very poor.he completely misunderstood when we said size.i have a few trophies from different promoters if i show you some other 3ft trophies i got this yr you will see a huge difference.and the price of the trophy is similar to what MK is paying for his.i think he needs to find a new supplier for the trophies.I am sure alot of the guys here can testify to that.Casper hoss yuh kno we good so no hard feelings but u kno i talk my mind sorry to say.Now i am willing to wait until next year to see what happens.note this isnt a complaint eh its just my opinion and i cant be 100% correct.

i agree with all rovin points.all.the man make rel sense.and i will really love to get into the spl section of the sport as well but honestly its only the price that keeps me back..to pay 160 for gallery then a further 180 for SPL is too much for me.hopefully this will also be adressed next yr.as i said i am willing to wait and see.and plz let everyone kno no matter how much we complain or say we never have intention of boycottin a show.last time our names were called on a list so i just wanna make that clear.our concerns are just to make shows the best it can be.As for mk judgung well yall do a gr8 job so compliments.the points system is efficient from what i see.the only thing is placing which every installer wants to kno.Again we'll see next yr.

And for those of you who dont kno Casper he has never told me anything and not done it so i have faith in him.goodluck because i kno its a difficult road ahead jed.Again plz dont take anything personally i have nothing against MK as well.his shows are by far the most organised i have been to and always keeps to timing.Parking is always good enough so you can get into and out the arena and security is gr8.so if you just deal with the smaller problems competitors are having then MK shows gonna be the best hands down.

[- Rovin's car audio -]

thanks for d compliments\support guys -



was hoping to see alot more ppl contribute but i suspect ppl not even seeing d thread in this section - maybe move it to ICE section ? , i know it doesn't belong there but ppl will quicker see it ...

[Kasey]

^^another good suggestion.

[who s next]

i went to a charity show in couva sunday
the throphey was like 12"
the cost to compete in gallery & spl was the same high price
why why only one promoter show is so expensive

[_Rajiv_]

i went to a charity show in couva sunday
the throphey was like 12"

On MK's Forum, this was clearly explained regarding the sizes of the trophies to be presented

the cost to compete in gallery & spl was the same high price
why why only one promoter show is so expensive

first thing he said that night is that the last 2 shows he's having for the year were already budgeted and planned out so he'll be unable to put ya'll concerns in effect in these last 2 shows....

[casper]

^^^^thanks rajiv....cuz like some ppl just out for us jed...

some ppl like they really doh understand the meaning of a charity event nah...all trophies that were bought for this event...money wasnt made back so all our money earned for this event went into charity....

i realise this "who's next" fella have sum serious problems with us yessss

[Kasey]

Sooooooooo, cas, yuh check 4 mih trophe??

[casper]

shux...i forget yesss....remind me again plz...send pm

[MonsterPower]

i went to a charity show in couva sunday
the throphey was like 12"
the cost to compete in gallery & spl was the same high price
why why only one promoter show is so expensive

saw him driving a lexus a few weeks ago

casper i saw u try to defend ur promoter but i think u forgetting that he is backed by sponsers who i am sure heavily subsidise these shows so all the talks of him breaking even is not totally true..

now the age old questions if quality of shows dropping is dues to one thing ... every tom dick and harrylal gets to come in to show off his car. just because a car comes in with 4 strobes or neons they can come in . now i have been out of the show loop a while now but some observations are the categories are too much and heavily saturated.

my suggestion is that the bess b-14,bess nissan ,bess mitsu,bess diss bess dat categories be revisited
having less categories will make the competition more stiff as well as raise the quality of installs such as music ,paints,custumising and all the other classes .
i know the promoters will say that more cars means more money and therefore more profit but when u try to cram more cars into a space beacuse the y paying a fee the patrons get bored in disinterested in seeing the same cars over and over and eventually u look to the cars and not the patrons who come to see them to foot the overall bill..