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zitanos wrote:
Yes, most of these questions can be answered by an religion. The intent was to get more information (from each of the religions) as to what are the religion's views/answers for those questions.
Hopefully by learning more about how each religion view's we could try to gain a better level of understanding.
That's a very nice thing, but it requires a level of maturity and tolerance that has been noticeably absent in most 'religious' threads I have read... I can only say that which was said when the young porcupine wanted a balloon to play with: I fear this can only end badly. Good luck.
toyo682 wrote:d spike, also when Jesus says he is the way, he was referring to his atonement, in that this death on the cross made the way to God, so we no longer have to kill animals to make atonement for our sins. The blood which Christ shed, washes away our sin, when we appropriate his sacrifice, by putting our faith in him, confessing our sins (act or deed). If you have verse to support other wise please share do not withhold such good info. FYI Christianity and only be studied through the Bible, just like physics is studied for a text on the subject, like all other things.
toyo682 wrote:d spike, ignorance is a bad thing.
I quite agree. Ignorance is dreadful... but so too is narrow-mindedness.
You ask how do I explain what you posted about good works not being required. Firstly let me clear up I believe Christians should perform good works, but good works is not require to be saved
I quite agree. St. Dismas (the 'Good Thief') is a perfect example of this. However, we are here for a reason, and that reason is to accomplish something... not just pack up and go home.
In my post with the list of scriptures from # 13-18 there are almost 16 verse that support what I believe and these are not my words it is what is written in scripture. What you and many Christians do is EisegesisYah got me, kiddo. Alright, so what? You call me an eisegete, I say you are ignoring a salient point. Once you agree to personal interpretation, then you will have different points of view cropping up, as the bible (as has been said so many times before) is a collection of many writings, ranging from poetry to apocalyptic narrative, spanning centuries, cultures, even different languages (most of which are no longer used in that idiom, or not at all), beliefs and personalities/writing styles.
(But you would already know this, don't you? So you would also know how easy it is for you to claim eisegesis on my part, simply because my interpretation differs from yours... so now I have to defend my point of view in front your desk... no lad, I have done this for too long - come better than that.
You cannot take one passage an form a doctrine.
Quite right, but that is what is called an "example". Already, my posts are lengthy - being long-winded is an unfortunate part of my make-up. If you wish to burrow through scripture to find each bone, go right ahead... My time is valued.
there are 16 passages to support my view were as the only one for you. We cannot hold on to one and neglect the 16.
Those 16 references are proof of your high quality burrowing, not the strength of your argument - re-read my last sentence, if you will. Go play your scriptural reference football match with someone else.
When it comes to James 2:14-26,
James does ask what good is a man's faith without his deeds. can such a faith save him....
But to understand we must take the whole passage into account, even in light of the book and the bible as a whole.
This action is quite commendable, and is exactly how scripture must be studied. Will you be doing this with your 16 references?
So please if you know better about the Bible than me and can help me understand more the verse I listed in the links please do.
That isn't my job, nor is it my wish.
I leave you with the words of Paul (who wrote half of the NT ummm... no, he didn't. Many of the writings attributed to him, weren't written by him... but you should know this too, considering the claim you made regarding your previous studies... )
toyo682 wrote:d spike, also when Jesus says he is the way, he was referring to his atonement, in that this death on the cross made the way to God, so we no longer have to kill animals to make atonement for our sins. The blood which Christ shed, washes away our sin, when we appropriate his sacrifice, by putting our faith in him, confessing our sins (act or deed).
I agree with your point here. However, like many 'christians' who post on the internet, you need to take into account of the readers who, though they do not share your faith, certainly do share your ideals, and wish to align themselves with others of like minds. Stressing the differences between you, instead of the things that link you together is more harmful than good.
You need to stress what you believe about Christ's sacrifice, as far as what it means for ALL MEN. You are supposed to believe (yur a christian, ain't yur?) that due to that one perfect act of atonement, ALL men are now able to ascend to God's presence - not just the christians. We are called to LOVE each other, not define our differences. Live, practice, witness... then, you will do the greatest good.
If you have verse to support other wise please share do not withhold such good info.
Re-read my last sentence instead. That would be a lot easier than me having to dust off my old tomes.
FYI Christianity and only be studied through the Bible, just like physics is studied for a text on the subject, like all other things.
If you are studying Christianity as a religion (or more precisely, what is should be based on, for a lot has happened in the last 2000 years) then, yes.
If you wish to learn about Christianity and how it has affected people, how it forms/changes people and cultures, how it has molded time and civilizations, then, no... (but you should know this already, for you said you studied... )
toyo682 wrote: If I sin I cannot do a good work to have my sin forgiven (No offense to other christian sect that believe in this = penance)
What christian religion, sect or cult believes this? Perhaps you might mean the Catholics... but they don't believe that either. 'Penance' for them is their 'atonement'. They consider 'absolution', which they receive during reconciliation, to be the delivery of God's forgiveness.
Back what you believe with scripture, as I have done, so far I have only heard what you think.
Why should he? Is your discussion with him, or with a book? What is wrong with what he thinks? Is he not allowed to do so? If he wishes to back up what he says, he will do so...
I have always had a problem with this sort of nonsense. It is a false way of holding a discussion, making one seem more knowledgeable than one really is. I have learnt and taught for many years this way of arguing: support one's statement with suitable scripture, but all I have seen being accomplished by the last couple generations is this facade of wisdom - all it is, is the memorization of quotes, many out of context (as seen in other threads), most with no bearing on the rest of the passage. People are now content to quote without learning more than the quote itself. Ask the context in which it was said, what followed it... it's like they rattle a box and pick up the scraps that fall out.
If you fear a discussion due to a lack of rational ability... well, then you are no different from the rattle-boxes who appear here from time to time... spout scripture (and nothing else - for they have nothing to offer, other than lines memorized from a book they don't understand) then flee from rational discussion...
... but I really hope you are different - it would certainly change the way these threads run... after those of a 'cut-and-paste' man, then one who was definitely missing some marbles, it would be refreshing.
noobie wrote:
We Know that the earth will one day be destroyed.
That is still a guess... a good one, based on previous and present and possible events... but it's still a guess.
And until we can prove otherwise why invent fairy tales or believe in pink flying unicorns to try to explain what we cannot understand?
Because it makes life easier for many... because it keeps the tithe baskets full... because where there's smoke, there's fire, and some of these 'stories' are real, the Flying Spaghetti monster, for example.
And even if you believe in a 'Soul' (which raises all sorts of questions. Why is mankind the only one with a Soul?
Seriously, no. People confuse 'soul' with 'spirit' -because a combination of these two is the human condition - but a soul is a life-force, so all living things have one... ask toyo862
If you once exist as a human..and then become spirit you are forever changed. That person that you were is gone. If you were to meet your friends and family after a year you would not relate to them, nor they to you. If you become an Angel in some 'heaven' again you are forever changed...you would be someone else totally.
Therefore the *you* that was here, is gone.
This is hardly likely so... If we are important (both as individuals and as a race) to a deity on this earthly level, a being rooted in infinity, why then would we cease to be important at another? Men are men, angels are angels - two totally different created beings.
But hey! isn't all this stuff about souls, angels, afterlife just 'invented fairy tales' or akin to believing in pink flying unicorns, trying to explain what we cannot understand?
It's like believing that a big man called Atlas carries the world on his shoulders. Or that we live on a disc carried on the back of a giant Turtle. Come on.
Hey!!! Everybody knows by know, that it's a disc resting on the backs of four elephants, that's carried on the back of a giant Turtle (the elephants are very important)
d spike wrote:The OP's original intention (correct me if I am wrong) was to hear each view, so go ahead and post what you believe, along with scriptural quotations ad infinitum to back you up...
Just remember, lad, your viewpoint will be observed on the same level, and accepted as of the same quality as any other from any other belief, even from those who consider the Aliens as deities and those who worship the Flying Spaghetti monster...
...what you believe will not be considered as being 'more real' than any other view...
Knock yerself out, lad.
illumin@ti wrote:Allyuh doh learn? Megadoc has no understanding or compassion for any other way but his.
'His' god is a jealous and maniacal one that says its my way or the highway. According to Megadoc if ur a Muslim, Hindu, Jew, or Baptist, ur screwed, Since his god alone can dictate, forgive and all that rah rah....'Intelligent' conversation with analysis and comparison is not something you'll find here with him. Only condemnation and small church syndrome in yuh waist.
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