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RASC wrote:bluesteel29 wrote:RASC,so cuz sum ole man say dat it nuh good mean we believe it??
we are in the information age....u can do research for yourself
Ok...so what did you find?
Toxicity emission from aluminium
Emission from aluminium smelter plant is generally categorised under Class 3 Indicators: it is extremely hazardous, carcinogenic, teratogenic, mutagenic, highly toxic, in short is has high potential to cause CANCER among workers or general population living nearby the plant.
Perfluorocarbon gases emission is a major contributor to global warming, causing generally a raising of temperature in the earth atmosphere that will melt ice in the north and south poles and bring higher tide resulting in flooding to lowland region.
Health Hazards
Hydrogen Fluoride can caused lung and bladder cancer, bone deformity, teeth decay and many more untold health hazards.
Sulphur Dioxide caused general respiratory problems. It is corrosive to plants and building and is a source of acid rain. This will result in soil getting infertile.
Pungent odour from the air emission is a public nuisance and very irritating. It lowers the quality of life of near by residence.
Soil contaminant
Other waste from the smelting plant caused soil contamination when it is not disposed off properly.
The Polychlorinated biphenyls waste are a group of chlorinated organic compound that are known to be soil contaminant.
From the Spent potlining (SPL) process waste it contain fluoride and cyanide that are both soil and marine contaminant.
RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena. If you guys suddenly want to get conscience and cry over the loss of mangrove at the expense of Billions of $USD , so be it. I would rather the money be funneled back into our economy. Oil ain't gonna be here forever and the down stream industries as a result of the smelter located here would bring even more development, jobs and increased living standards. Making the country even more attractive for potential investors.
UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
True, but look at it like this.
With proper management we can control those situations.
If we had repaired the drains faster, dredged the canals better, protected the already protected hill sides even more fervently we wouldn't have such flooding in our nation.
That's the issue here, not whether or not the smelter would hurt the environment but whether we can manage it in such a way that it reduces its impact as best as possible while STILL bringing in the mucho bucks.
We all win as a result.
That's what I want to see, better management, checks and balances.
UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena. If you guys suddenly want to get conscience and cry over the loss of mangrove at the expense of Billions of $USD , so be it. I would rather the money be funneled back into our economy. Oil ain't gonna be here forever and the down stream industries as a result of the smelter located here would bring even more development, jobs and increased living standards. Making the country even more attractive for potential investors.
how can u enjoy it when u have a chronic illness?
UML wrote:RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
True, but look at it like this.
With proper management we can control those situations.
If we had repaired the drains faster, dredged the canals better, protected the already protected hill sides even more fervently we wouldn't have such flooding in our nation.
That's the issue here, not whether or not the smelter would hurt the environment but whether we can manage it in such a way that it reduces its impact as best as possible while STILL bringing in the mucho bucks.
We all win as a result.
That's what I want to see, better management, checks and balances.
doh lemme dead laughing eh..i eh even bother tuh read d rest
we cah even manage WATER
RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
True, but look at it like this.
With proper management we can control those situations.
bluesteel29 wrote:RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
True, but look at it like this.
With proper management we can control those situations.
d fack u ah chat bout.....not in trinidad.
RASC wrote:bluesteel29 wrote:RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
True, but look at it like this.
With proper management we can control those situations.
d fack u ah chat bout.....not in trinidad.
Ok well how about this.
You guys sit down there, fold your arms, screw yuh pan, and say "NOT IN TRINIDAD" and me and my people will make it happen when the time comes.
Y'all sit from the sidelines and point and laugh.
It's okay mih back broad, I hopefully one day want to make that change happen.
RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
True, but look at it like this.
With proper management we can control those situations.
If we had repaired the drains faster, dredged the canals better, protected the already protected hill sides even more fervently we wouldn't have such flooding in our nation.
That's the issue here, not whether or not the smelter would hurt the environment but whether we can manage it in such a way that it reduces its impact as best as possible while STILL bringing in the mucho bucks.
We all win as a result.
That's what I want to see, better management, checks and balances.
doh lemme dead laughing eh..i eh even bother tuh read d rest
we cah even manage WATER
Well when water being used to bless monkey statue, and fill big shot ceo pool...that just goes to show were our priorities are as a nation.
But you can't just sit down and throw yuh hands up and say "oh gorm they cyar manage nuttin, so leywe not build nuttin" then you remain forever stagnant.
Everybody goes through teething problems. The country isn't even 100years old for goodness sake
Look at curroption filled Nigeria, corruption that would make TT seem like chicken feed.
You think they're folding their arms-they're still pressing forward.
Have you heard of EKO-ATLANTIC in Lagos? It's probably the biggest project in the world right now...they're still moving forward because they realize this is what needs to be done to life yourself by force out of the dark ages.
http://www.ekoatlantic.com/index.htm
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/33HhrWOkQ58&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed>
Look at India...corruption like it going outta style...you think they're stopping their development for fear of "we cyar manage that" Come nah man-you just gotta DO IT!
bluesteel29 wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29 wrote:RASC wrote:UML wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena.
the envirinment controls everything......i wonder why we have flooding, landlsides, global warming, drought, occupational illnesses, hole in the ozone layer, etc etc
every and anything u do is affected or controlled by the environment
True, but look at it like this.
With proper management we can control those situations.
d fack u ah chat bout.....not in trinidad.
Ok well how about this.
You guys sit down there, fold your arms, screw yuh pan, and say "NOT IN TRINIDAD" and me and my people will make it happen when the time comes.
Y'all sit from the sidelines and point and laugh.
It's okay mih back broad, I hopefully one day want to make that change happen.
thats all well an good but dont bite off more than u can chew
UML wrote:Essar Steel close up shop and gone back India!!!!
No more Smelter in Claxton Bay!!!
First Chatham....now Claxton Bay....NEXT STOP La Brea!!!
RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena. If you guys suddenly want to get conscience and cry over the loss of mangrove at the expense of Billions of $USD , so be it. I would rather the money be funneled back into our economy. Oil ain't gonna be here forever and the down stream industries as a result of the smelter located here would bring even more development, jobs and increased living standards. Making the country even more attractive for potential investors.
Gladiator wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena. If you guys suddenly want to get conscience and cry over the loss of mangrove at the expense of Billions of $USD , so be it. I would rather the money be funneled back into our economy. Oil ain't gonna be here forever and the down stream industries as a result of the smelter located here would bring even more development, jobs and increased living standards. Making the country even more attractive for potential investors.
If the oil/Gas finish what we going to run the smelter on???
RASC wrote:d spike wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29 wrote:RASC wrote:That's Billions of $US of missed revenues to the country!
Let's hope this project gets its legs back and is completed in a timely manner.
A world class smelter will make us the envy of the region, not to mention the developing world.
u hadda b joking
I'm very serious.
Are there not other projects that would make us the envy of the region, not to mention the developing world... that wouldn't run the risk of screwing with our environment to that extreme?
How will it screw up the environment? Because some liberal quack ram it down your throat that industrial development is hazardous to our health, while they bask in the glory of 300Years past of industrialization?
Why do you think it won't screw up the environment? Because some pro-industry sycophant was brought to TnT to ram it down our throats that it wouldn't? Please. And who is 'basking in the glory of 300 years of past industrialization'? The countries that have pushed species to extinction? Rivers so polluted they caught fire? Acid rain problems? De-forestation? I would hope that you are not one of those, whose envious gaze (caused by low self-esteem and projected as malignant nationalism) only see the tall buildings and flashy limos, and cry: buh I want dat too! The benefits of industrialized nations can be exported, and thus shared by all, without all having to suffer the price paid by that country's environment.
Please, screw any developed nation person coming to tell us what is good and what is not for our environment.
I agree with you there. And having a lackey come here to tell us that smelting can be done harmlessly, when they cannot dispose safely of the waste products - apart from shipping it elsewhere - when we ourselves can see the damage done in other parts of the world is dotishness... or they think we REALLY stupid.
They had centuries to build up their infrastructure unabated and unchecked and now wanna come dictate our pace.
If they have learned from their mistakes, we would be foolish to not listen. Tell me, did you stick your hand in the fire as a lad to see if it could really burn you?
Sorry not having it!
I won't have your seemingly childish behaviour either! To deny the possibility of damage to our already weakened environment, simply for dollars? Dollars, which will not be comparable to the overall cost of environmental destruction? What is so wrong with not wanting a potentially harmful industry on one's doorstep? Are there NO OTHER forms of investment?
Such as an F1 track?
You're seriously comparing the earning potential of an F1 track to a smelter? I know you love motor sports but let's be for real man. No comparison.
Really? If you look at total profit by the owner, of course... but who will be getting the money? This is national development we are talking about... not the wallet of some fat cat. The BBC highlighted the building of an F1 track not too long ago (sorry, but I can't remember the details - the racing fanatics here should be able to identify the location), and what was interesting was the urgency of the government to want it completed due to the revenue it would realise. They spoke of the boost to not only the county's economy, but to the employment rate. Citizens who have no direct link to the racing industry would benefit as well, due to the influx of the specific tourists to their country.
RASC wrote:UML wrote:...........Mega Farms, BIOFUEL, automotive industry,etc
I don't approve with any of those.
Only one that maybe sustainable will be the mega farms, which in itself produces HUGE amount of wastes.
So much waste that even in Canada (Manitoba to be exact) they have no figured out a proper way to dispose of all the manure and other by products the animals produce.
I'll try to find a link.Efficient and profitable, huge hog barns are being championed as the future of pig farming. As seen in this Country Canada report, one swine operation can churn out as many as 15,000 pigs a year. Such large-scale operations have doubled pig production in the last decade in Manitoba, giving the province a much-needed shot in the arm. Unfortunately there's a down side: manure and lots of it.
Hog barns store gallons of liquid manure in untreated, open-air lagoons, some as big as a football field, holding up to a year's supply of waste. Pointing to the unsightly manure pits, small farmers say bigger isn't better. They say massive barns pose a threat to the environment. They are concerned about leaks, which could contaminate their water source. There needs to be some protection, one farmer tells the CBC. It is not normal farming, he explains. It is an industry.
http://archives.cbc.ca/economy_business ... lips/6930/
Of course this is way back in '93
Things MUST have changed since then. There seems to be a powerful movement however in the states against mega farms and more for family farms...
But given our size, I don't think that should be an issue. I'm starting to like the idea of mega farms for T&T more and more, will have to do more reading tho-I honestly don't know that much.
Gladiator wrote:RASC wrote:bluesteel29, Exactly what I said. A liberal quack.
Sorry I don't buy into those ultra hippie ideologies...I'm a capitalist, and the money generated by it's development will be much appreciated. Jobs, Industries, Development are way more important to me.
The environment at this stage, to me should take a back seat to our advancement in the global arena. If you guys suddenly want to get conscience and cry over the loss of mangrove at the expense of Billions of $USD , so be it. I would rather the money be funneled back into our economy. Oil ain't gonna be here forever and the down stream industries as a result of the smelter located here would bring even more development, jobs and increased living standards. Making the country even more attractive for potential investors.
If the oil/Gas finish what we going to run the smelter on???
buzz wrote:No matter how much revenue trinidad generates the avg citizen gets no benefit :!:
nothing new
however when things are tight the expenses are passed on to these same citizens
De Dragon wrote:Oh Gorm!
. The fellah who said that the thread's title was misleading was quite right. There's no way in hell that environmentalists could ever stop any industrial project that has this government's nod of approval - and that goes for any group, for that matter. This government has ceased to listen to anyone except the little voice inside their own pockets.
UML wrote:White CZ4A wrote:yeah but they did not leave because of the power of the people.
It was due to economic downturn, nothing else.
.....u voted for the "winning" COP last time right?!!
Essar pulls out of $12b Claxton Bay project
Camille Bethel South Bureau
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl ... =161628486
Tuesday, April 13th 2010
India-based Essar Steel Caribbean Limited (ESCL) has abandoned its controversial $12 billion project near Pranz Gardens, Claxton Bay.
The company closed its offices at Atlantic Plaza, Point Lisas, in January, and company officials have returned to India.
The project may be ’revisited’ several years from now, the Express was told.
Among the employees affected was head of security, former police commissioner Trevor Paul.
The project was up to January of this year being hailed by Energy Minister Conrad Enill as a priority project that would be completed.
Enill had said at a post-Cabinet meeting, ’As it relates to new projects, we have agreed that there’ll be a continued priority for Alutrint, there is going to be a priority for the manufacture of steel by Essar-subject to Essar agreeing that they would go downstream and then there is the manufacture of propylene.’
In December 2005, Essar Steel signed an agreement to set up a two million-tonne iron and steel plant in Trinidad but last year, Clico Investment Bank (CIB) fell into financial problems and there was speculation over Essar’s commitment to the local project.
This was dismissed by both CIB and Essar Steel, who said the deal was on and CIB was committed to financing the first phase of the project that was being built near Pranz Gardens, Claxton Bay.
The pullout by Essar has not been acknowledged by the State.
But international business reports are that the project was put on hold because of a slump in demand and the economic downturn.
The project saw years of protest by Pranz Gardens villagers supported by environmentalists, who also challenged the related Claxon Industrial Port project.
The port, being built by the National Energy Corporation (NEC), was meant to be a supply point for raw material for the steel plant.
Last year Essar secured a mineral concession in Brazil, with the iron ore to be shipped to Trinidad. The NEC is still pursuing its plans to build the port.
Last week came news that the Environmental Management Authority had accepted the NEC’s resubmitted documents for the port and was now awaiting public comment before it decides whether or not to grant the Certificate of Environmental Clearance, paving the way for construction.
Environmentalist Dr Wayne Kublalsingh said yesterday: ’Now the anchor tenant on that estate-Essar-has left, but the NEC still wants to go ahead with the port and they have submitted a number of documents to the EMA.’
He added, ’They have submitted documents for the past three years and in the first two instances were rejected because of insufficient information.’
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