Rebuilding a Sub (pics)

[threeplumes]

well i just got back my 15'' re sx from "Crakey " he put in a 2000rms jugg kit in it(i wanted to put back a re sx kit but he did not have any) so what are the disadvantages of me doing this????

also because it is a 2000rms coil would it handle 2000rms with the re parts

[rmrunner]

i highly doubt...cause once you repair it the power decreases...say roughly might get 1200rms.....

[3stagevtec]

i highly doubt...cause once you repair it the power decreases...say roughly might get 1200rms.....

brr!?!

the power handling of a sub is determined by the design of the motor.. the re sx motor was designed to cool 1000W of power passing through a coil.. so once you start passing the 1000W initial design, what ever coil you use will be placed under additional (heat) stress..

now, having a stronger coil means you can pass extra power through it without damaging it, but the long term cooling issue will always be a problem..

my DC Level 4 has the same coil as the Level 5 sub.. but the level 5 was designed to cool 2000W+ of power.. the level 4 motor was designed to cool 1000W of power.. in my case, i am able to drop up to 1500Wrms to my 'upgraded' level 4 without problems..

another factor to mention is box size and tuning will affect power handling as well.. too small a box or too high a tuning freq will limit the excursion of the sub.. to little excursion = not enough cooling = reduced power handling.. that is one of the advantages of a lowish tuning (i.e. below 35Hz)

only through testing you will be able to know how much power your new combo will take thermally / mechanically..

[kurpal_v2]

T/s specs of your "new" subs?

[hard head]

Did this same swap out but on a 12" and all i can say the sub never sounded better it handled alot more power and no problems

[southside connections]

the speaker should be able to handle up to 1500wrms safely now

try it, and see for yourself

[kurpal_v2]

T/s specs of your "new" subs?

How was it gauged that the sub would handle 1500rms?

[southside connections]

trial and error^^^

oh wait i forget, u know everything

[viking1705]

^^lol..from what i hear and saw som of his work crackie is a boss.which means the work was properly done and trust me if he and ssc say it go take 1500rms.it will try it and see.

[3stagevtec]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=390-804

[kurpal_v2]

trial and error^^^

oh wait i forget, u know everything :roll:

I ask a simple question thinking well if he say it will do xx wrms then he knows by proof of some method and not just jumping out his words..


SSC I not attacking you even though Im sure if I ask what process was undertaken by trial and error you will say I jumping on your case.. Fella calm down, you is a big installer, me I cant even cut mdf straight..


3stagevtec I think you may have had experience by this cracky fellow, does he own a woofer tester? If he does, then id think he gives customers who undertake such "cross-breed" subs a T/S sheet to KNOW and not GUESS of their sub which is why I asked..

[threeplumes]

^^lol..from what i hear and saw som of his work crackie is a boss

x2

kurpal..... i don't know if he has a woofer tester but he can build a sub ground-up if you want(he is the one that builds the subs sound extreme using now)and when i went to pick up my sub...he was rebuilding the wisemen 2 12'' cactus (with rf caps)


so i thinkkkk he know what he doing.......when i build a box for the sub i will post a review

[hard head]

he was rebuilding the wisemen 2 12'' cactus (with rf caps)

more like modifying

[kurpal_v2]

trial and error^^^

oh wait i forget, u know everything :roll:

I ask a simple question thinking well if he say it will do xx wrms then he knows by proof of some method and not just jumping out his words..


SSC I not attacking you even though Im sure if I ask what process was undertaken by trial and error you will say I jumping on your case.. Fella calm down, you is a big installer, me I cant even cut mdf straight..


3stagevtec I think you may have had experience by this cracky fellow, does he own a woofer tester? If he does, then id think he gives customers who undertake such "cross-breed" subs a T/S sheet to KNOW and not GUESS of their sub which is why I asked..

Anyone cares to answer? Southside?

[ChristianRD]

^^lol..from what i hear and saw som of his work crackie is a boss

x2

kurpal..... i don't know if he has a woofer tester but he can build a sub ground-up if you want(he is the one that builds the subs sound extreme using now)and when i went to pick up my sub...he was rebuilding the wisemen 2 12'' cactus (with rf caps)


so i thinkkkk he know what he doing.......when i build a box for the sub i will post a review

Great points !!!! So what you are saying is just by repairing the sub, he magically knows d specs off hand without even using any method of measuring it ???

(I not bashing crackie eh.)

[threeplumes]

ChristianRD, i dont know if he does it when he repairs each sub but this was not the first time he put a jugg coil in a sx ....so maybe he did the testing on the first on he did.......and i know for sure the does tests when he builds a sub for you.

[riadb]

so wait

u put ah jugg coil in ah SX???

u know by doin dat u honestly can't call ur sub a RE SX again rite....nor can you call it a Jugg because the different components used would drastically affect the T/S parameters of the sub as kurpal_v2 said.

Now a properly designed sub has a QTS that equals it's QMS plus its QES.

By changing the coil from an original RE SX coil to a Jugg coil u basically varied the parameters and thus screwed up the orignal T/S parameters.

Another thing.....is the RE motor and spider capable of handling the Xmax of the jugg coil??

Cooling issues have already been mentioned...... i need not say more.

all i have to say is, good luck yes......

[threeplumes]

Another thing.....is the RE motor and spider capable of handling the Xmax of the jugg coil??

he change the back of the sx cone and use a different spider


i will post pics later....

[3stagevtec]

cross breeding subs is not a new thing.. it has been done many times, often by subwoofer manufacturers themselves..

my DC sub is actually a mix of parts from the level 4 and 5.. this mix in my case lead to an increase in power handling.. and the type and quantity of spiders were chosen based on the power i had available to use..

for SPL use, this will be superior over the standard level 4..

of course, the driver will never sound as the manufacturer intended, but that's a trade off some people live with to gain the extra benefits from modifications..

[kurpal_v2]

^ But in that case we KNOW what is what wrt t/s and how it is supposed to react to power..

Im sure rusty spent some degree of time testing the subs and can show what was done, beacuse it would be stupid to just crossbreed a sub and put it out there with your companies rep on the line.


But in the case of rebuilding a sub blind folded and saying yes it will take xxxrms and perform xoxo without any hard evidence/testing done is somewhat questionable to me..


I just wanna know how someone can say xxxrms is safe for a sub that you know nothing of?

[kurpal_v2]

Bump for pics/ explanation/ something?

[kurpal_v2]

Bump for pics/ explanation/ something?

where are the professionals? Pics?

[kurpal_v2]

Haiiiiiii guyzzzzzz

[demboyzaudio]

how much did this cost to replace with a jugg coil?
why didnt you just buy a new sub and save yourself the headache now?
I dont really believe in rebuilding subs with different parts unless you goin spl or something.
and seroiusly, where the pics?
this here since october

[Brian Steele]

Now a properly designed sub has a QTS that equals it's QMS plus its QES.

Qts = Qes*Qms/(Qes+Qms). This is true for all subwoofer drivers, whether original or rebuilt.

Also, T/S parameters are SMALL-SIGNAL parameters, measured around 1W or so. Not many car audio subwoofers are generally used at that power level.

Some time ago I used to do impedance testing at a much higher power level and then used those results to calculate T/S parameters that were probably more indicative of real-world performance, but the tests took about a hour or two to do, and I no longer have that kind of patience .

[Lance]

Now a properly designed sub has a QTS that equals it's QMS plus its QES.

Qts = Qes*Qms/(Qes+Qms). This is true for all subwoofer drivers, whether original or rebuilt.

Also, T/S parameters are SMALL-SIGNAL parameters, measured around 1W or so. Not many car audio subwoofers are generally used at that power level.

Some time ago I used to do impedance testing at a much higher power level and then used those results to calculate T/S parameters that were probably more indicative of real-world performance, but the tests took about a hour or two to do, and I no longer have that kind of patience .

do you have any data from these tests?

I'm interested in seeing a comparison.

[Brian Steele]

do you have any data from these tests?

I'm interested in seeing a comparison.

Unfortunately, no.

[SR]

crossbreeding is good for spl

30 sec burps

not so good for gallary as indicated above the motor isnt designed for higher wattage coils etc also what would be your box desing as you no longer have accurate speaker specs to work with so its a trial and error however most if not all people will design for the original speaker and just say it could handle more power now and put a bigger amp

then wonder why it doesnt sound as good or it keeps damaging

[viking1705]

a couple weeks ago i got a pair of 15 mmats p3 that crackie up graded with jugg coils and suspension..i played it very long never gave trouble and it rivaled my single x atomic bassline.

the sub was not done for me they were done a while back for another tuner and he traded me them they were neatly done and the original p3 dust cap was re used and flawlessly stuck back on the new cone.

I dont have the subs anymore but i know the guy who does and i will try to get some pics for you guys..crackie does amazing work.

[threeplumes]

some pics.....








i took the logo off