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Real Cost Of Flag

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Real Cost Of Flag

Postby *$kїđž!™ » November 5th, 2009, 10:55 am

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl/arti

IN the face of apparent unrelenting condemnation over the $2 million cost of the ’legacy’ flag hoisted in the Hasely Crawford Stadium, Sports Minister Gary Hunt yesterday dismissed reports that the flag was having the opposite effect of what it was meant to achieve - which is national pride.

’I disagree. You just have to go on Facebook and you would see some of the arguments and support that is there. It has huge support online,’ he said.

Told that there were some adverse comment in the media, Hunt replied: ’I haven’t heard any. From my walkabouts, I have heard no such comments... I have just come from the walk from Hutton Road, Cascade, in my constituency and I have had no such comments.’

He was speaking at a news conference at the Sport Company, at which the Sport Company of Trinidad and Tobago (Sportt) confirmed that the erection of the controversial flag cost $2 million.

The breakdown provided by Sportt Chairman Kenneth Charles is as follows: flag and fabric-$18,112,15; foundation and installation works-TT$940,000; design and supply of the ’monster flag pole’ TT$932,400.

In addition, the ministry acquired three additional flags at a cost of TT$54,336. The flag, which is out of composite nylon and covers 2,160 square feet, will have to be replaced every four to six months, dependent on the weather condition, on a permanent basis.

Hunt said the flag was a ’worthy investment, especially for young people ’who need to look inward at our heroes ..., instead of the Paris Hiltons’.

Told that this was the second facility named after a national icon which has encountered controversy (the first being Brian Lara Stadium in Tarouba), Hunt said: ’It is my opinion that every day that the flag flies it would do the damage control (necessary to blunt criticism), because it would reflect itself as a symbol of national pride every time we look at it, and it should.’

The Minister was flanked by Charles and Sportt Executive Director, Darren Millien. Charles said the company was aware of the possible costs at the start of the project.

’We knew that the stadium is built on reclaimed land. There was an expectation that when you went to a certain depth that you would encounter water, hence the need to do all the soil testing before you started the project ... So it was an engineering project and therefore it had a certain cost,’ Charles said.

He said the engineering works which took place in the ’swampy soil conditions where the stadium is located’, included a soil analysis and geotechnical survey, design of the foundation, excavation to a depth of 20 feet x 20 ft x 15 feet, 400 tonnes of reinforced concrete, two tonnes of steel, reinforcements, blue stone and granular backfill, and contracting the use of heavy lifting equipment such as cranes to hold the flag in position for several days while the concrete set.

Charles said people had to keep in mind that the pole, which is 165 feet high (15 feet below ground and 150 above), weighs 15,650 pounds, can withstand winds of 130 miles without the flag, 90 miles with the flag and has an earthquake rating of zone 5, ’just like in California’.

Asked why it took almost a week of controversy before coming forward to confirm the figures, Charles said the company had the information and it was up to the Minister to provide the guidance and instruction. Hunt said the ministry had to do a due diligence to ensure that the information given to the press was accurate.

’A question was asked on the cost of the flag, we answered that ... ($18,112.15),’ Hunt said, referring to the ministry’s release on Monday.

’And today, we are able to provide the data surrounding the structures that would support the flag,’ he added.

Was this being less than forthright with the public, the Minister was asked.

’You see people were associating the physical flag with a cost (of TT$ 2 million). And I think that it was only fair that the public know that the actual fact was $18,000 ...That is a different issue (from) - what it takes to erect the flag,’ he said.

Asked whether he believed he was damaged by this issue and that people would henceforth refer to him as the $2 million man, Hunt said: ’You can’t put a price on a person’s personality. I am who I am ... carrying out a mandate for the people of Trinidad and Tobago as Minister of Sport, which I am proud to do... I think in time people would understand the value of what we have done.’

Charles said the contract was the result of competitive tender from three suppliers-Phabha Sports International; Fire One Fire Works and Excellent Technologies. The successful bidder was Fire One Fire Works, which had installed the only other legacy flag in the country-the one at Macoya


So the cloth cost $18000
and the cost to erect the pole is $2 million!!!!!!

NOW THAT IS NONSENSE....!!!!!

1 million for ah steel pole!??!!! and 1 Million to erect i!?!?!?!

that cost more to erect than it would cost to build a small home!!!

Trinituner contractors and builders - what allyuh think bout this ....

I am sure Fire one Fireworks and MR Gary are sleeping together...

CORRUPTION

IMagine a child needed 1 million to get a liver transplant or else her operation would get postponed and she would die soon after ..the money used to put up that pole could have be used to save the girl life and she may have been able to make a valuable input for our country ....but all Mr [Hunt] studying is a Blasted Steel pole.......

I would not be suprised to see them wine up on that pole for carnival.....

STUPID PEOPLE IN POWER

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Postby - Rovin's car audio - » November 5th, 2009, 11:09 am

STUPID PEOPLE IN POWER


no padna its STUPID US WHO PUT THEM IN POWER & will do so again if election is called in d morning .....

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Postby *$kїđž!™ » November 5th, 2009, 11:23 am

(...Rovin...) wrote:
STUPID PEOPLE IN POWER


no padna its STUPID US WHO PUT THEM IN POWER & will do so again if election is called in d morning .....


Yeah true but why cant we just wake up and see what they are doing to us and our country....change is needed bro change has to come....T&T just dying man......

We have to pull back gypsy song----Captain the ship is sinking.....

btw anybody have song?

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Postby Greypatch » November 5th, 2009, 11:35 am

no padna its STUPID US WHO PUT THEM IN POWER & will do so again if election is called in d morning .....

evo-STI-k

Postby evo-STI-k » November 5th, 2009, 1:14 pm

so that is where our ministers liek Issac do their homework and their demographic evaluations? on Facebook???

Great a govt run by jackarses!

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Postby noshownogo » November 5th, 2009, 1:16 pm

allyuh ain't hear de man or what, just drive past it and all these concerns will turn into national pride :|

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Postby buzz » November 5th, 2009, 1:27 pm

noshownogo wrote:allyuh ain't hear de man or what, just drive past it and all these concerns will turn into national pride :|


no no no :x


it's a crime fighting flag

it aids the country's national security as well

it can also be doubled into 1000 hospital beds

and can strip tint @ a moment's notice :shock:




it can also turn into a crime fighting blimp btw

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Postby Maserati » November 5th, 2009, 1:33 pm

(...Rovin...) wrote:
STUPID PEOPLE IN POWER


no padna its STUPID US WHO PUT THEM IN POWER & will do so again if election is called in d morning .....


well said

evo-STI-k

Postby evo-STI-k » November 5th, 2009, 1:39 pm

Maserati wrote:
(...Rovin...) wrote:
STUPID PEOPLE IN POWER


no padna its STUPID ALLYUH WHO PUT THEM IN POWER & will do so again if election is called in d morning .....


well said


me ent voting for sach dotish kants- behave allyuh sleves! 8-)

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Postby DTAC » November 5th, 2009, 1:42 pm

I would love a breakdown of "foundation and installation". And the flag has to be replaced every four to six months. So how much is that going to cost us.

evo-STI-k

Postby evo-STI-k » November 5th, 2009, 1:43 pm

when youres stuck in traffic and have tuh buss ah hot sheit- go climb the pole and use it tuh wipe yuh arse is more like it :twisted:

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Re: Real Cost Of Flag

Postby biggy82 » November 5th, 2009, 1:43 pm

Nigson wrote:’I disagree. You just have to go on Facebook and you would see some of the arguments and support that is there. It has huge support online,’ he said.

i would really like to see what online support he talking about :?

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Re: Real Cost Of Flag

Postby cacasplat3 » November 5th, 2009, 1:52 pm

Nigson wrote:Trinituner contractors and builders - what allyuh think bout this ....


considering the engineering and materials needed to make the pole i'd say the cost is believable........

considering the weight of the pole and the cost to rent a crane to keep it in position for a few days i'd say the cost is believable.........

typical trinis will say its just a pole, but it isnt....there is a lot of research and engineering needed to be done to a pole of that height.........

i'm not defending the construction of the pole, i'm just saying that the cost is realistic for a project like that.......... :idea:

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Postby *$kїđž!™ » November 5th, 2009, 2:17 pm

cacasplat - r u a builder or engineer?


also what kinda tuner name you give yourself dey bro --- caca splat?

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Postby cacasplat3 » November 5th, 2009, 2:21 pm

engineer......

the name was initially chosen as a joke.......just never bothered to change it......... :fadein:

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Postby G-T » November 5th, 2009, 2:22 pm

buzz wrote:
noshownogo wrote:allyuh ain't hear de man or what, just drive past it and all these concerns will turn into national pride :|


no no no :x


it's a crime fighting flag

it aids the country's national security as well

it can also be doubled into 1000 hospital beds

and can strip tint @ a moment's notice :shock:




it can also turn into a crime fighting blimp btw



:lol: :lol:

evo-STI-k

Postby evo-STI-k » November 5th, 2009, 2:23 pm

pictures martin Joseph at home on facebook checking to see who got killed today!

:roll:

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Postby *$kїđž!™ » November 5th, 2009, 2:31 pm

Nah bro caca splat I still find that cost kinda way high even with what they say had to be done to erect it.....

I still cant get over that name bro lol... :D :lol:

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Postby DTAC » November 5th, 2009, 2:48 pm

Do people realise that the cost of the flag itself was 1 percent of the total. 99% was spend putting the thing up!!! That is madness in any country other than Trinidad.

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Postby *$kїđž!™ » November 5th, 2009, 2:59 pm

Gary C would be getting free fireworks for xmas I would think

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Postby +G0thiC_CitY+ » November 5th, 2009, 3:02 pm

u aint see the big flag by COE in macoya gone..i guess jack take it down,wash it and sell dem :shock:

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Re: Real Cost Of Flag

Postby Rahtid » November 5th, 2009, 3:50 pm

cacasplat3 wrote:
Nigson wrote:Trinituner contractors and builders - what allyuh think bout this ....


considering the engineering and materials needed to make the pole i'd say the cost is believable........

considering the weight of the pole and the cost to rent a crane to keep it in position for a few days i'd say the cost is believable.........

typical trinis will say its just a pole, but it isnt....there is a lot of research and engineering needed to be done to a pole of that height.........

i'm not defending the construction of the pole, i'm just saying that the cost is realistic for a project like that.......... :idea:



tru,

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Postby ruffneck_12 » November 5th, 2009, 3:53 pm

we cud use it as a sun dial :idea:

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Postby civic070 » November 9th, 2009, 10:09 pm

DTAC wrote: That is madness in any country other than Trinidad.


but how yuh meannnn das a normal ting in trinidad...after d kinda tings d pnm has done dis go come as a suprise

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Postby fouljuice » November 10th, 2009, 4:47 am

i doh know bout alyuh but ever since that flag was put up i feel a lot safer when liming or driving down the road, grocery stocks suddenly cheaper and also i sleep better at night.

but seriously now, if the cost of the pole/installation is so high but realistic why they didnt improvise and hang it from the BLIMP. they would have kept all that money to spend on some other unnecessary piece of $hi+ and it wouldn just be limited to one location.

a man once said
If dem cud pay TT$932,400 for a flag pole, dey should have also gotten 10 years free vaseline


and
also what kinda tuner name you give yourself dey bro --- caca splat3?


so cacasplat 1 and 2 was already taken? :shock:


:fist: PNM and garyMC

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Postby altec » November 10th, 2009, 5:30 am

ah feeling to sneeze.....CHOGM, CHOGM, CHOGM

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Postby RBphoto » November 10th, 2009, 9:11 am

I actually did a speech for toastmasters yesterday on this topic. I chose to defend the flag. These are my speech notes, so not really meant to be read word for word, but delivered, but hope you like it:


Madam Toastmaster, members of the executive, fellow toastmasters, specially invited guests. I present my speech today entitled:

Where your flag, where your rag?

There is a giant national flag of Trinidad and Tobago flag being flown in the Hasley Crawford stadium. I like it. It has come under vicious attack from all sections of society, for being allegedly too expensive, to serving no purpose. I say to these people...WAKE UP! That is our flag, our international banner. We leer at the television whenever a Trinidadian athlete is on the world stage, in hope of seeing a stamp sized picture of our flag for just a few seconds. In our own small minded way, when we see that, we think "We reach!!", and call our family to look before it disappears from the screen. Now we have a gigantic flag staring us in the face every day, unfurling beautifully in the wind, and people wish to decry it. You really cannot please a Trinidadian.

A flag is a bold statement of identification. It marks our presence as a people, and symbolizes our right to our territory. When our soldiers vow to defend flag and country, they defend all under the banner. There are those who will die to defend their country's flag. Is government expenditure on something that is supposed to evoke national pride, to be a rallying of our enthusiasm and energy, planted on our premiere sport facility a waste of money? I think not.



The national flag is our war banner on the field of sport, proudly painted on our faces and displayed from our cars. Giant reams of cloth in red white and black are supported at national matches in the stadium. Whether or not some Trinidadians may recognize it, that flag is flown in our hearts. Is the problem that I am a bit too sentimental? Does national pride have a cost? Or is it that I am mistaken, and Trinidadians only have a convenient sense of national pride, when it can be self serving?

We got our country too easily, so to our sense of national pride is not rooted in epic struggles for freedom where our standard was triumphant, but placidly set aflutter based on hurried design. To quote NALIS website archive of "Newsday Historical digest October 29, 2000"

"On June 8, 1962, it was announced in London that Trinidad and Tobago would be granted independence on the 31st August of that same year. Feverishly, a new flag needed to be designed. A committee was appointed to choose a design and a new motto, and in no time on 26th June, to be precise the committee submitted a design, which the Cabinet approved."

Unlike other countries, there was no blood on our flag. Not only the flag, but all of our national symbols were hammered out in less than a month, on a mandate that we prepare for independence to be given to us.

It is obvious that we are afflicted with one form of apathy or the other for the flag, but I do not blame it solely on our lack of national pride. I believe that Trinidadians are a bit jaded. We overuse our flag. We abuse it to the point that some Trinidadians are lost to its significance. A flag is a rag, pull it out of your pocket and wave. To those Trinidadians, if a fuzzy, dirty red gold and green rag was flying atop the mast in Hasley Crawford stadium, it would make no difference to them. Having no real sense of history and unity, we cling to the symbols which are supposed to evoke those lofty emotions, paint everything red white and black, but cannot find the reason that we are trying to come together except that all live in the same tiny geographic location. It is just another party favor.

Did the flag cost too much? Could the money have been better spent? Perhaps, we should examine the economics of the situation. I look at it every day. I have photographed it from numerous angles and find joy in seeing it unfurl. It works for me. If I had to put a monetary value on it, it would definitely be more than a dollar. If everyone in Trinidad got that same feeling, a total of about 2 million times, it would have made economic sense.

Because of our own lack of national pride, we devalue the national icon that the giant national flag of Trinidad and Tobago was designed to be. It is a failure because it is a pearl cast before swine.

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Postby 2 d Max Auto » November 10th, 2009, 9:36 am

I don't think anyone has a problem with the national flag, I think we all have a sense of patriotism, but where is your patriotism when we have a society that can't provide proper care for it's elderly, poor and sick ppl :(


Image

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Postby RBphoto » November 10th, 2009, 10:02 am

Every ministry has it's allocation. Not too sure which one, but I am sure it did not come out of the health ministry's budget, or the budget of the ministry for social development.

If it was ministry of sports/ culture/ creative arts, cry down the PNM for not supporting athletes, being racial with the allotment to indian athletes or whatever else you can actually gripe about that ministry etc, not for health, or old people or for not fixing road. 2mil cannot buy twenty Tiida, and the amount of steel and structural work that went into making the flag could easily encompass the same metal in dem shite car. There are many things that are wrong in the country, but this ministry is actually working and getting jobs done. I can find no fault with them on this project. The other ministries that are not performing have thir own budget:

1) National Security
2) Health

Those two ministries are a waste of time and cause us the most suffering. They have huge budgets, and 2 mil for them would be a drop in the bucket of wastage they cause.

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Postby 2 d Max Auto » November 10th, 2009, 10:34 am

crossdrilled, don't get me wrong, I hear you and I have no problem with the flag in it's self, I feel proud to see it flying high I will always be Trini to the Bone.

But regardless of the fact that each Ministry has it's budget, at the end of the day the monies come from one pool, the Treasury, and financial prudence must be exercised in all aspects of public spending, certainly something has to be wrong with a 2 mil price tag.

There was a news report (TV 6 or CNC, can't remember which) on a similar issue with a Barbados company doing a similar Barbados flag abeit it was a bit smaller, the cost when compared came no were close or even comparatively speaking to that which it cost this nation and be extension you and I.

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