Making a duplicate car key **(pics added)**

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 19th, 2009, 1:20 pm

Anyone here ever come across any problems doing this?

I went to get one cut but the key place told me most times the copy would only open the door - it won't start the car. So I was like :?:

And I'm not talking about an expensive euro model with the built in immobiliser in the key in case you're wondering.

They said it was up to me if I still wanted them to do it, but they won't refund my $$. So I still told them go ahead (it was like $20 or something) cause I didn't see why it won't work (my car has no electronics in the original key or built in immobiliser).

Of course, it didn't work like they said. I asked if I got a blank key from the dealer and brought it back for them to cut if it would work then, and they said it would.

So why won't their copy work? I looked at them one on top the other and they seem to be identical.

Postby **Hook** » September 19th, 2009, 1:50 pm

My copy opens the driver's side door and starts the car. It won't open the passenger side door tho, but who cares? It does what I need it to do.

wagonrunner · Postby **wagonrunner** » September 19th, 2009, 2:09 pm

dredman1,
exactly what model car?

with our RORO's we got one key, and they all had copies made, and they all work. (need to verify for the Sylphy if the spare starts it.)

Strugglerzinc · Postby **Strugglerzinc** » September 19th, 2009, 2:46 pm

My wife and i both use copies without issues.

The only problem i could see is if the key cutter didn't have the correct blank.

eg. For mazda, there are different blanks for different models. Current 323 uses a MAZ25R blank while the old 323 uses MAZ20R blank. The long grooves along the key are differently spaced.

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 19th, 2009, 8:13 pm

wagonrunner wrote:dredman1,
exactly what model car?

It's a RORO Mazda 3, Singapore model.

Well I also got a copy made for my RORO BJ 323 (SDM model also) from the same place with one of their blanks some years back, and it works fine (opens doors and starts car).

Strugglerzinc, didn't realise the blank made a difference. I guess I have to go Southern Sales and see if they would sell me a blank spare key. :evil:

Anyone have a contact in there who could get them to sell a RORO owner one?? :oops:

vin123 · Postby **vin123** » September 20th, 2009, 1:14 am

Same thing with my Uncle's Almera. His copy key won't open the trunk, only the doors.

I would like to believe that it's the Manufacturer's aim at safety? I dunno...maybe? lol

phreakazoid · Postby **phreakazoid** » September 20th, 2009, 10:17 pm

I cut keys ... it happens sometimes.... the keys are exactly the same and still don't start the car. As long as the original key does not have the microchip embedded in it ... a copy is supposed to work though! If you are not satisifed with my keys.... I refund :wink:

megadoc1 · Postby **megadoc1** » September 20th, 2009, 10:51 pm

when they say it wont start the car they meant it will tumble but not start
most new keys have a security chip embedded
i remembered a time a guy came to me with a kia sportage his car wont start
when i check it out, it tumbles but no start. i checked everything but then i noticed an immobilizer light blinking on the dash , the key he had was one they cut .
i ask him if he have the original key and he said yes and reluctantly went for them because he thought i was mad
when he returned i stuck it in the ignition and the car started right away

3stagevtec · Postby **3stagevtec** » September 21st, 2009, 2:16 am

Hook wrote:My copy opens the driver's side door and starts the car. It won't open the passenger side door tho, but who cares? It does what I need it to do.

i'm guessing that wear on the driver door lock and engine starter is why the copy works..

but as the passenger door lock would be hardly used when compared to the other 2 mentioned, it is picking up the minute imperfections in the key.. and thus not opening..

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 21st, 2009, 10:33 am

megadoc1 wrote:when they say it wont start the car they meant it will tumble but not start
most new keys have a security chip embedded
i remembered a time a guy came to me with a kia sportage his car wont start
when i check it out, it tumbles but no start. i checked everything but then i noticed an immobilizer light blinking on the dash , the key he had was one they cut .
i ask him if he have the original key and he said yes and reluctantly went for them because he thought i was mad
when he returned i stuck it in the ignition and the car started right away

Hmm - the only electronic anti-theft I have is a viper alarm, yet the duplicate neither tumbles nor starts the car. It fits and turns freely all the way to the START position, but then nothing.

The original Mazda 3 key does not have a security chip embedded in it. Unless the Mazda 3 has a built-in immobiliser that I don't know about. Can anyone verify this? :oops:

3stagevtec wrote:i'm guessing that wear on the driver door lock and engine starter is why the copy works..

but as the passenger door lock would be hardly used when compared to the other 2 mentioned, it is picking up the minute imperfections in the key.. and thus not opening.

Good thinking. However, won't the fact that the original key is also worn to these imperfections and works, and a supposed exact duplicate of the worn key is made, suggest that the duplicate should also fit the imperfections and work? (Just asking)...

phreakazoid · Postby **phreakazoid** » September 21st, 2009, 4:35 pm

Does your key have a plastic bow?.... If i remember correctly .. I did cut a key for a Mazda3 once and it only opened the door... it did not start the vehicle... most likely there is a security chip embedded in it ... u will need to get the key made at Southern Sales.

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 21st, 2009, 8:00 pm

^^^ "plastic bow"??? Not sure what that is, but here are pics of the key (front & back).

If that's the case, I'm in trouble. There's no way SS is going to make a key for a RORO owner.

phreakazoid · Postby **phreakazoid** » September 21st, 2009, 8:04 pm

^^yeh .... most likely ..it's got the chip embeded

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 21st, 2009, 8:06 pm

Let's say it has the chip in it. Even if by some stretch of the imagination I'm able to get a blank, then even cutting it alone won't work, correct? As it would need to be programmed for my car too?

phreakazoid · Postby **phreakazoid** » September 21st, 2009, 8:09 pm

^^^Correct... I believe they will do it for you at Southern Sales but it will be costly. They provide blanks and programming. They won't know its RORO unless you tell them...Even if there is some way that they do find out .... tell them you bought the car from someone locally!

If all else fails.... well dont sweat it....you will just have to disable the safety feature if ever you lost that key..... so keep it safe!!!....

If you do have a duplicate.... try starting with it while keeping your original closeby and see what happens....if the duplicate starts it in this scenario.....go figure...

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 21st, 2009, 8:19 pm

phreakazoid wrote:If you do have a duplicate.... try starting with it while keeping your original closeby and see what happens....if the duplicate starts it in this scenario.....go figure...

Well I just thought of that and went to try it and report back here, then saw your msg LOL.

Well no luck. Tried with the copy, and held the original right next to the key tumbler. Go figure is right - if it had a chip I figure that would've worked.

But it does seem to be something electrical, since the key turns and then nothing.

I still have my doubts as to whether SS will be willing to cut and program the key at all for me.

phreakazoid · Postby **phreakazoid** » September 21st, 2009, 8:25 pm

^^This definitely is an electrical issue and not mechanical.....Try something crazy...... ground the original to the chassis of the car while trying to start with the copy.... let us know what happens..

cinco · Postby **cinco** » September 21st, 2009, 9:36 pm

the electronic chip only works with the key in the ignition it wont work as proximity

VexXx Dogg · Postby **VexXx Dogg** » September 21st, 2009, 9:43 pm

try High Tech Locksmiths in St Augustine.

megadoc1 · Postby **megadoc1** » September 21st, 2009, 10:24 pm

cinco wrote:the electronic chip only works with the key in the ignition it wont work as proximity

true

miniray · Postby **miniray** » September 21st, 2009, 11:06 pm

i had the same problem with the same type of car. Tried cutting keys at a shop closeby , they did everything but start the car. Finally someone told me to go to valpark, there is a place near the grocery...Keys from there worked Fine. If u didn't try there yet , give it a shot and see if it works, it just might like mine.
BTW those keys don't carry the chip, if it did there would be a clear plastic at the bottom of the key.

Dj_Bee · Postby **Dj_Bee** » September 22nd, 2009, 9:18 pm

my friend had this same problem with his cube....the duplicate would open the doors, but not start the car...the locksmith tried about 3 times but it diddnt work...
the problem was that the size of the duplicate key was just slightly smaller....if one watched it they wouldnt notice the difference just so....

we went by another locksmith and got a blank key the same size and cut it and it worked perfectly....the guy said that there are numbers on the duplicate keys which indicate the size, and sometimes different sizes work the same, but not all the time

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 22nd, 2009, 11:02 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies and suggestions.

I got a duplicate made at High Tech Locksmiths (special thanks to VexXx Dogg), and it works fine. Friendly people and great service. When I walked into the place, I just got a flashback of the keymaker from The Matrix - blanks and more blanks everywhere, for all types of cars, different transponder types etc. The guy also knew his stuff. I'd highly recommend this place to anyone.

They made sure the key worked and came out and tried it on the car. The first cut started the car, but it was kinda hard to turn. He went back and made some adjustments and now it works perfectly. They also had me try it first to make sure I was happy with it before paying them. It was a bit pricey, but I'm 100% certain it was but a fraction of the price versus if I had to have Southern Sales program a copy for me - if it were at all possible to get them to do one for a RORO car.

Just to clear the air, the Mazda 3 has a built-in immobiliser, and each key does have a tiny transponder chip that communicates with the ECU. If the ECU doesn't recognise the key, it wont allow the car to start.

For the record, I also tried the key place at Valpark that miniray recommended, but they had no Mazda transponder keys in stock, and did not know when next they would be getting.

Thanks again for the help.

cinco · Postby **cinco** » September 23rd, 2009, 12:32 pm

thanks for the solution.
so do they program the chip?
i was under the impression the keys have to be programmed before they will start the car

Postby **Hook** » September 23rd, 2009, 12:47 pm

dredman1, u got a number for them by chance?

phreakazoid · Postby **phreakazoid** » September 23rd, 2009, 6:23 pm

So basically you are saying that the "transponder" is universal for all mazdas or did they have to program it ?..... if so .. .did you get to see how they did it by chance ?

dredman1 · Postby **dredman1** » September 23rd, 2009, 9:56 pm

cinco wrote:thanks for the solution.
so do they program the chip?
i was under the impression the keys have to be programmed before they will start the car

yep - they program the chip there. The chip needs to be recognised by the ecu before it allows the car to start.

Hook wrote:dredman1, u got a number for them by chance?

662-9946. You can find them in the yellowpages under "Locks & Locksmiths"

phreakazoid wrote:So basically you are saying that the "transponder" is universal for all mazdas or did they have to program it ?..... if so .. .did you get to see how they did it by chance ?

Nope - the transponder isn't universal. They needed your existing key to program the duplicate transponder.
Didn't directly see the guy do it either - he went to the back of the place to do it - he had whatever machine to do it in the back. Could have seen him, but not what he was doing. Either way, the less that's said/known about it the better, since not everyone reading this thread would have good intentions...

What's important is that should you lose your spare and need to make a copy it can be done by them, and it works fine. :wink:

cinco · Postby **cinco** » September 23rd, 2009, 10:10 pm

dredman1 wrote:
cinco wrote:thanks for the solution.
so do they program the chip?
i was under the impression the keys have to be programmed before they will start the car

yep - they program the chip there. The chip needs to be recognised by the ecu before it allows the car to start.

see why i told you guys it was easy to steal cars with programmable keys?