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this is how we do it.......

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Postby Greypatch » September 17th, 2009, 2:10 pm

boi what is sad is this...

Look at the 2nd Graph.

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Postby xtech » September 17th, 2009, 2:17 pm

Wey the exchange rate skyrocketed after independence after being at $1TT=$1USD for 100 years
:shock: :shock:

InDeForest wrote:Waaaays, man , this thread is actually depressing me, and I still wonder, how the ASS the british ever handed the keys over to williams.


They saw this coming............wanted no part of it.
Would be cheaper to let us go than to try to contain it. :? :?

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Postby d spike » September 17th, 2009, 4:04 pm

"they dont teach local history...............we learn about Caribbean history then some spanish, french and english. "

Local history won't be taught in our schools as it will shatter many myths that the powers-that-be want us to keep on believing. If you check any secondary school history text, it will seem as though after Chacon handed over his sword, two fellahs named Cipriani and Butler made a stink, then a fellah named Williams made a speech in Woodford Square about putting down his bucket...

Slavery is always told from the point of view of Jamaica, Haiti and the Southern states of America, and a couple pics from Barbados (Slaves were treated very harshly there). Try and find out what really used to go on here. Life has been sweet in TnT for longer than most think.

Anything about Colonial T'dad was squashed out, it didn't exist anymore. Never wondered why the areas of land with excellent infrastructure laid out (roads, water mains, house sites) was left to grow over in bush and considered "agricultural land" (Wallers, Carlsen F, Chaguaramas)? Wallerfield was earmarked as the area to become the 'bread-basket' of T'dad, even though it is accepted as the second poorest arable soil in TnT...

Do you know that Trinis had a reputation for being eloquent in the Commonwealth? More than a few writers in the colonial period claimed our menfolk were not only better speakers, but more genteel! (times have changed...)

Nowhere in any text-book will you see our input into either of the two world wars. (because then it was British stuff, see, colonial duty and all that - not Trini...)
Albert Ball's wingman was a Trini - and an ace as well... Ulric Cross is STILL the highest decorated airman in the RAF...


"InDeForest wrote:
Waaaays, man , this thread is actually depressing me, and I still wonder, how the ASS the british ever handed the keys over to williams.


They saw this coming............wanted no part of it.
Would be cheaper to let us go than to try to contain it."

So true. Plus the fact that we (and others) were agitating against colonialism. It made the best sense, economically and diplomatically.

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Postby janfar » September 17th, 2009, 5:34 pm

You know, at home i have the genuine copy of the document used for my great grandfathers indentureship. It states that he came here in 1850 or so and was 16 yrs of age. He came on the HMS Brenda and was brought to work on the Rivulet estate. Will try to scan and post that doc when i get home.

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Postby Greypatch » September 17th, 2009, 6:00 pm

spike you have real ifo dwag.

Recommend some reading material for the patch nah

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Postby equipped2ripp » September 17th, 2009, 6:20 pm

ah find SR sticking... he supposed to have real stuff to contribute to this thread.

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Postby SR » September 17th, 2009, 10:18 pm

maybe when i get back

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Postby d spike » September 17th, 2009, 11:06 pm

Greypatch, pay a visit to GK's Aviation Museum in Chaguaramas - recommend that trip highly! Get a copy of his book about local aviation history (actual name escapes me, but I think it's "History of Aviation in T'dad"). Great book, easy reading. Did you know the airstrip in Galera, Toco (by the lighthouse) is the only airstrip in the world that has a bend in it? Not the landing strip itself, but the pilot must pull to one side to avoid the lighthouse! :lol:
A damaged bomber landed there, and the pilot was convinced (after repairs were done) that he could take off even though the runway was too short - he planned to use the drop off the cliff as extra time to build up speed! The plane was dismantled and taken by truck to Wallers...

You know of Torpedo Alley of the north coast... do you know that the greatest concentration of torpedoed ships in the war was there?

"Stories of Trinidad and St. Vincent in the Antilles" by Bertrand Cothonay. This collection of excerpts from a french priest's journal gives an interesting insight to life in TnT in the late 1800's. As far as the site of the Arena massace is concerned, by 1885, no one knew where it was. By the way, I was wrong about the number of murdered priests (I read "Spanish Trinidad" in my teens - too long ago). It was 3, not 4 as I had previously stated: 2 priests and a brother. One was remonstrating with an indian regarding the placing of a plank in the structure they were building as a church to replace the rough chapel they had. The indian knocked the priest in the head with it, killing him. The other priest saw what happened, and not realizing his fellow priest was dead, ran up to the indian and picked up where his friend left off, including the part about hitting holy men. A crowd was gathering by the time the priest was becoming aware that his friend wasn't just knocked down, and the indian gave him a similar treatment. The friar came out of the chapel, read the writing on the wall (or rather, the ground) and being a realist, ran back inside to make peace with his maker. The writer states that the indians heard him praying loudly for their souls, and dragged him outside, beat him to death, then threw his body alongside his fellows. the indians then threw out the wooden statues from inside the chapel, gouged out the eyes and hacked the statues up. When everyone calmed down, the indians met to decide what to do. It was during this meeting that the news of the governor's approach came. You know the rest... If you have a parent or grandparent who still has their school texts, look for this one, it's a gem - "Spanish Trinidad" by the Capuchins

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Postby bluefete » September 17th, 2009, 11:09 pm

I am learning a lot from this thread. Thanks.

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Postby d spike » September 17th, 2009, 11:22 pm

P.S. any of the books written by Anthony de Verteuil, e.g. "Sir Louis de Verteuil, his life and times, Trinidad 1800 - 1900"

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Postby SmokeyGTi » September 18th, 2009, 8:42 am

d spike, that's real good info there!

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Postby Maserati » September 18th, 2009, 10:54 am

d spike wrote:You know of Torpedo Alley of the north coast... do you know that the greatest concentration of torpedoed ships in the war was there?



I've heard about this, but I've never turned up any info. online so it makes me question if it is indeed accurate.
Perhaps the military museum would have more info. regarding it.

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Postby d spike » September 18th, 2009, 12:19 pm

"I've heard about this, but I've never turned up any info. online so it makes me question if it is indeed accurate."

The internet is great an' all, and I'm gonna let you finish, but books written by actual witnesses is the best of all time... :lol: :lol:

Seriously, lad, remember information is only put on the net for public access BY PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE SAID INFO TO BE KNOWN. You'll get a lot of info about healthy fruits grown in good ol' US of A, but try to find the health benefits of Cashima and Stinkin' Toe.

The fact is that good info about WWII has been detailed and recorded by that generation in the type of data used then. Only truth diggers n fanatics will put it up on the net. Yer can't find sumthin' if it ain't ther!

The museum and it's founder (and his book) will give you the info you're looking for. Good hunting! (go on a day that won't have crowds)

Another good book is "In and out of politics" by Errol Mahabir (I think). I don't know why the powers-that-be haven't burned all the copies of this book - I guess they figure their peons don't read.

Certain well-known historians write quite well, but when they aren't acquainted with all the facts they salt the food with a good pinch of fiction! This here is a public forum, so no names will be called... Just cross-reference your research with other accepted and CREDITED sources before you swallow what you find. :mrgreen:

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Postby horsepwrjunki » September 18th, 2009, 12:53 pm

huge contribution d spike, excellent info.. i think i will take another stop at the museum in chag..

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Postby Redman » September 18th, 2009, 1:18 pm

My understanding-from what Ive read is that early in the campaign the Caribbean was the most lucrative area for the wolf packs- WRT tonnage sunk vs u boats lost.

I supposing this had to do with the fact that we were a bottle neck and the open (deep) water made ASW difficult

Kelshall wrote U Boat war in the Caribbean -Amazon had it and its really a great book.

Im reading it again so will post up stuff as I make my way through the book if you guys so inclined


Also as the war ebbed and flowed the activity changed accordingly- the stats could change with the time period in question

Later

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Postby Maserati » September 18th, 2009, 2:03 pm

Redman wrote:My understanding-from what Ive read is that early in the campaign the Caribbean was the most lucrative area for the wolf packs- WRT tonnage sunk vs u boats lost.

I supposing this had to do with the fact that we were a bottle neck and the open (deep) water made ASW difficult

Kelshall wrote U Boat war in the Caribbean -Amazon had it and its really a great book.

Im reading it again so will post up stuff as I make my way through the book if you guys so inclined


Also as the war ebbed and flowed the activity changed accordingly- the stats could change with the time period in question

Later


hmm http://www.amazon.com/U-Boat-War-Caribb ... 955&sr=8-1

may be worth getting

*edit* found it in the library by me, will borrow it

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Postby d spike » September 18th, 2009, 5:17 pm

"^not gettin the story on google boy MG i cant remember, was it ain a republic reader book? like the standard five one? i kinda wanna read it again now"

Don't believe everything you read in those RR books, otherwise you might end up thinking that Eric Williams was a great footballer and he came from a poor black family... :lol:

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Postby TOIZ WIT NOIZ » September 18th, 2009, 7:22 pm

"^not gettin the story on google boy MG i cant remember, was it ain a republic reader book? like the standard five one? i kinda wanna read it again now"

Don't believe everything you read in those RR books, otherwise you might end up thinking that Eric Williams was a great footballer and he came from a poor black family...
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Postby d spike » September 18th, 2009, 9:53 pm

TOIZ WIT NOIZ wrote:
"^not gettin the story on google boy MG i cant remember, was it ain a republic reader book? like the standard five one? i kinda wanna read it again now"

Don't believe everything you read in those RR books, otherwise you might end up thinking that Eric Williams was a great footballer and he came from a poor black family...
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What, laddie? Details required?

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Postby d spike » September 20th, 2009, 12:33 am

The statue of the Amerindian on the way to Santa Cruz behind San Juan (Santa Cruz Old Road, I think)...
The story I have been told is:
The Spanish settlers there were warned by a friendly amerindian about an impending attack. They then fled to the safety of the nearest garrison. After their return to the area, they erected a statue of the neighbourly indian.

Quite a nice tale, but is it true? If so, what were the chances of survival of the amerindian when his fellows linked the remarkable escape of the settlers to the coincidental resemblance of the statue to the said indian who visited the settlers? (Somebody mus' a collec' boutoo like it was goin out ah style...) :lol:

Seriously, has anyone ever looked closely at the supporting pillar? Neither the design nor the mortar work doesn't resemble (even closely) the style or structure of Spanish colonial towers. The "faux steeple" effect... (I is not ah arkeeteck, eh... buh whoever here is, take a look nah...) I would hazard a guess based on what scraps of info I have hoarded in a small corner of an empty head and say... that structure had to have been built after the 1920's.

What say yous?

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Postby d spike » September 21st, 2009, 12:50 pm

A Canadian sqadron was also stationed at Piarco during WWII... Didn't know that before :lol:


Reading "Port-of-Spain in a World at War 1939-1945" by M. Anthony
Last edited by d spike on September 21st, 2009, 3:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby d spike » September 21st, 2009, 1:03 pm

Here's an amusing anecdote:
In 1941, the motor vehicles on the streets were causing concern. The problem was not so much the number of vehicles, but the accidents caused by careless driving. Towards the end of May, the traffic authorities introduced for the first time, the sign "Stop - Major Road Ahead", and they drew a yellow line at the junction of major roads.

There was a storm of protests. One motorist wrote, "Is it necessary for vehicles to come to a stop?" He declared that among the difficult problems were "the strain imposed on drivers and frequent renewal of brake linings" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby xtech » September 21st, 2009, 1:17 pm

The general public in the United Kingdom and elsewhere is scarcely aware of the involvement of Caribbean crew in the airwar of 1940-1945.

In 1940, no so-called ‘men of colour’ could have joined the Royal Air Force; but by the end of the war in 1945, there were between 300 and 500 aircrew from the Caribbean out of a total of around six thousand volunteers who served during World War 2.

About seventy were commissioned and one hundred and three received decorations. Yet these facts are not generally known even to the present Black British population or even in the Caribbean.


Trinidadians in the RAF
There were 252 Trinidadians in the RAF during the war, 50 of whom died. they were known as the black squadron

Image
ATS, Piarco, Trinidad. 2nd Course - Standing: F.W. Farfan, K. Rostant, T.H. Meyer - Sitting: I. Bourne, R. Williams (instructor), Lieut. J.F. Carroll (chief instructor), W. Brown (ground engineer), J.D. Lenagan/Lennigan? (senior cadet)


George Lau
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Squadron Leader - OBE, MIBM, MIPM, RAF

George Lau was born in Port of Spain, Trinidad on 7 May 1921. He was educated at Naparima and St Mary’s Colleges before being selected in 1941 by the Trinidad Air Training Scheme for Pilot training. He went on to volunteer for flying duties in the Royal Air Force in 1942, and after Elementary Flying Training in England and Canada, he graduated as an Air Navigator at the RCAF Station Edmonton, Alberta. He completed Operational Training on Hampden Torpedo bombers as well as Dakota DC 3 aircraft in early 1944, at No 32 OUT, Vancouver Island, British Colombia.

After a short spell at No. 45 North Atlantic Ferry Group at RCAF Dorval, Montreal, he flew out to the far east and joined No. 117 Squadron in mid 1944 on the India/Burma border flying DC 3 aircraft in the air supply dropping role against the Japanese. After completing an Operational Tour of 165 missions he was then posted in 1945 to No. 353 Squadron engaged in short range transport activities in the India/Burma/China area.

In 1946, he returned to England and joined No. 511 Squadron at RAF Lyneham flying York and Hastings aircraft on long range transport operations over the Middle East, East Africa and Far East. Whilst serving with No. 511 Squadron, he was specially selected and granted a Permanent Commission as a Flight Lieutenant in the Royal Air Force Flying Branch.

Also during his four(4) years tour with 511 Sqn, he flew operational sorties in the evacuation of prisoners of war from Singapore, the movement of families to and fro India and Pakistan during the Indian Independence hostilities support ops during the emergencies in Malaya and in Kenya, and the Berlin Airlift.

On the airlift, Sqn Ldr Lau flew over 200 missions between RAF Wunstorf, Hannover and RAF Gatow, Berlin, in the period July 48 to June 49.

Between 1951 and 1954, he was a Flight Commander and Instructor at No. 1 and No. 5 Air Navigation Schools. He then joined the Central Flying School, RAF Little Rissington as Adjutant and Staff Navigator.

This was followed in 1957 by courses on Night Fighters and as a Fighter Controller. His next post was in Cyprus on the Air Defence Staff and in 1958, he became Officer Commanding No. 280 Signals Unit, a Master Ground Controlled Interception Unit at RAF Akrotiri responsible for the island air defence during the Emergency. At the end of this appointment he was awarded the OBE.

In 1960, he commanded a Training Squadron at No. 2 Technical Training School. By 1962 he returned to flying duties as Seniors Operations Officer and Instructor at No. 230 Vulcan Operational Conversion Unit (OCU), after completing a series of courses on Canberra and Vulcan Bomber aircraft.

He next moved to Singapore when in 1965 he joined the Staff of the Air Officer Commanding No. 224 Group, RAF Seletar during the Indonesian/Malaysian Confrontation. On completion of this tour in 1967, he was posted back to England onto the Headquarters Staff of Bomber Command (later renamed Strike Command).

After a couple years at RAF Strike Command, Sqn Ldr Lau, at his own request, prematurely voluntarily retired from the Royal Air Force in order to pursue a second career in Industry. He joined Tate & Lyle PLC in 1969 and retired from that company in 1992, having served in Senior management appointments in the UK, West Indies and east Africa.

He now resides in England. He is married to Elaine Chan Sing, also a Trinidadian. They have 2 daughters – Susanne and Diane.

AIRCRAFT TYPE FLOWN

Tigermoth Anson Hampden
Dakota DC3 Beechcraft Liberator
Skymaster DC4 Wellington Sunderland
York Lancaster Oxford
Hastings Valetta Varsity
Meteor Shackleton Harvard
Vampire Brigand Marathon
Canberra Balliol Viscount
Valiant DC6 Pembroke
Vulcan Sycamore
PROFESSIONAL QUALIFICATIONS
Graduate Air Navigator
Graduate Specialist Navigator/Instructor
Qualified Fighter Controller
Graduate Admin Staff College
HND Business Studies (MBIM)
Diploma Personnel Management (MIPM)

HONOURS/AWARDS
OBE



Walter Horace Short

136419 - Squadron Leader - Pilot - 181 Sqn - Typhoon - KIA

Volunteer Trinidad, trained at Piarco ETS. Shot down several times; was CO 181 Sqn, Typhoons. Killed at 1210hrs on 27 Dec 44 when his aircraft collided with another aircraft (Canadian pilot) while both were engaged in attacking ground targets during the Battle for Bastogne, in the area of St Vith. Both pilots were killed. Son of Walter Mayow Burgoyne Short, and of Clare Mary Short, of Paddington, London. Awarded DFC

[Source: CMHA]

605470 - W.H.B. Short - Trinidad - attested 28.7.42 - P/O Pilot UK 26.1.43
136419 - A/S/L - F/L (w) - DFC 24.11.44 - commissioned 4.12.42 - missing, believed killed 27.12.44

Hugh D. Venebles

106029 - Squadron Leader - Pilot - RCAF - Boston - KIA on 9 April 1943

Volunteer Trinidad ETS, trained at Piarco 1st Course; flight commander 418 Sqn. Boston Intruder W8325 took off from RAF Ford at 2200hrs on 9 Apr 1943 for an operational sortie over the Melun-Bretigny area and failed to RTB. Later established that the Boston collided in mid-air with a german twin enginned night fighter. The Two aircraft crashed near St Andre airfield, Chapigny la Futelage, Eure, France. Both crews perished. DFC





Phillip Louis Ulric Cross
Image
in uniform, as a young man, outside the family home in Port of Spain
Image
Here is a photo of the legendary Squadron Leader (139 “Jamaicaâ€
Last edited by xtech on September 22nd, 2009, 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby cinco » September 21st, 2009, 2:42 pm

wow
thanks guys
how about sharing a list of books that we can look for that contain these beautiful nuggets of information about our history?

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Postby Greypatch » September 22nd, 2009, 10:04 am

respect xtech and spike..


will look for the books suggested.

all viewers on this page, registered and broswers please feel free to contribute

we need to learn and inform others of our rich history.

We also need some tobago history in this thread.

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Postby .:PROZAC:.. » September 22nd, 2009, 10:11 am

I feel all the stuff I crammed at school is so pointless and wtered down now.
I don't know of any hidden bits but I know a little of where I grew up and how it got its name. Maybe you all know of how the place you live got its name.
Up to 1994 there were indentrured labourer barracks in the original condition in Barrackpore. They were bulldozed and the land claimed by whatever act it was for construction of a local Police Station.
I would go for driving practice on the runway in Clarke Road used by the Americans in WWI and all through the 'oil field road' from bpore to penal you can see the remains of what was once an immcualtely manitned Golf Course and club houses.

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Postby xtech » September 22nd, 2009, 10:17 am

there was also a huge Gulf Course in Bennet Village Santa Flora

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Postby SmokeyGTi » September 22nd, 2009, 12:28 pm

loving the mascot!

I supposed to see some indentureship documents from my in-laws soon, i'll try to get pics, i won't be able to scan them.

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Postby Yeo » September 22nd, 2009, 12:43 pm

WOW! Lots of stuff I was not aware of.. Thank you for the info!

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Postby idlemind » September 22nd, 2009, 12:45 pm

buh i thought Yeo and Dragist used to pitch marble with some ah dem fellas

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