The Religion Discussion

[slimshiney]

so there are no other sentient, free choosing beings in the universe, only humans on earth?

Are you referring from a philosophical point of view or scientific? If so bro.. what is the one thing apart from the 5 senses that differeciates between "humanhood" and mere existence?...one love..

[2 d Max Auto]

To Those Who Believe in God; No Explanation is Necessary. And To Those Who Do Not Believe in God; No Explanation is Possible.
- Author Unknown

Agreed.

I believe in God and I know he is real, NO FURTHER EXPLANATION NEEDED.

[slimshiney]

To Those Who Believe in God; No Explanation is Necessary. And To Those Who Do Not Believe in God; No Explanation is Possible.
- Author Unknown

Agreed.

I believe in God and I know he is real, NO FURTHER EXPLANATION NEEDED.

I think this is understood. It's good to know what lies on the otherside. I know i'm firm in my beliefs. Been through too much personal experiences to even think about doubting that....

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

both sides of this argument are closed minded to the other side.
though it seems taht a few posters supporting science seem to be more open to new ideas - though only from other supporters.

[3stagevtec]

No.

There are many people who have never heard of Jesus Christ or Allah or Krishna.

That does not mean that there is no hope for them.

God is all encompassing and merciful.

No sheit quoted.

seriously speaking, i look at the world we live in, present and past, and see absolutely NO evidence of this...

if you want me to believe in a god, prove to me he is merciful..

[hoverauto]

I just have one thing to say: I have never heard of an atheist blowing up a building or killing another person because they didnt share his beliefs.

ALL religions (with specific reference to GOD) promote violence.

Tetum religio potuit suadeere maloeorum (To such heights of evil are men driven by religion) - LUCERTIUS.

Religion breads to much hate! the world would be better off without it.

[illumin@ti]

Likewise there are a great many thing science has yet to cough up hard data on.... Then are we left with religion to fill that void? Why cant we just say that we dont know yet? Or we just dont know. I dont feel that man on a whole has reached the level where he understands his role and function in the scheme of things...Or rather, is man phobic about the reality of his insignificance in the vast universe? Practically... our sun could go supernova tomorrow and the Great Architect might not even hear it nor care...Who are we to assume that the creator exists solely to babysit us and be Dr. Phil to 6+ billion crybabies.... How about we get up and get... dont u know... The meek inherit nothing...

[/discussion]

i repeat

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Likewise there are a great many thing science has yet to cough up hard data on.... Then are we left with religion to fill that void? Why cant we just say that we dont know yet? Or we just dont know. I dont feel that man on a whole has reached the level where he understands his role and function in the scheme of things...Or rather, is man phobic about the reality of his insignificance in the vast universe? Practically... our sun could go supernova tomorrow and the Great Architect might not even hear it nor care...Who are we to assume that the creator exists solely to babysit us and be Dr. Phil to 6+ billion crybabies.... How about we get up and get... dont u know... The meek inherit nothing...

[/discussion]

i repeat

Interesting point.

[Razkal]

Razkal - I humbly await your response on evolution.

So why you logicalists could quote all kinds of things to back up your points but I can't quote the Bible or Qu'ran or whatever to back up mine?

You see, God's word trumps "intellect" every time.

BTW - I'm sorry the "Muslim" thread was pulled because we had a pretty good discussion going there.

three pages later i see your tactics haven't changed for swaying the logical minds.

i have no response for you with regards to evolution, as i predict your response would include some bible quotation, which quite frankly holds no weight in my court.

what baffles me is how god's word trumps intellect?


you see, i can quote a scientific paper elaborating on the theory of evolution for you, because, it was postulated after years of careful research, observation, data collection, collaboration and other rigorous scientific procedures to ensure its validity.

the bible is as serious as the tale of little red riding hood and equally as adept at proving the existence of a god. i honestly am confused as to why you fail to see that

[xauss]

Likewise there are a great many thing science has yet to cough up hard data on.... Then are we left with religion to fill that void? Why cant we just say that we dont know yet? Or we just dont know. I dont feel that man on a whole has reached the level where he understands his role and function in the scheme of things...Or rather, is man phobic about the reality of his insignificance in the vast universe? Practically... our sun could go supernova tomorrow and the Great Architect might not even hear it nor care...Who are we to assume that the creator exists solely to babysit us and be Dr. Phil to 6+ billion crybabies.... How about we get up and get... dont u know... The meek inherit nothing...

[/discussion]

i repeat

Interesting point.

X2

[missy77]

scientific knowledge = fact
quote from bible = non fact

until you can prove everything in the bible actually happened, don't fkin quote stuff from it

errrr....scientific logic prooves the texts to be right they just do it like a 100 yrs after it was written!!! everything is already there in the texts but the scientists only prove it way after and then we're all like well we knew that aready duhh!!!

[slimshiney]

Guys just a lil question..Can someone explain a "thought" from a scientific point of view...

[bluefete]

Aye bluefete.....I think I live a good clean honest life...I do my best to do the right thing......I don't hurt small animals(including hamsters),I help others as much as I can,I give charity,I help the old lady cross the street,I doh horn,cheat,lie,steal etc etc.

You mean to say, the only difference is that you believe in someone,pray and worship them and that makes your doing right better than my doing right and you are better off for it?

No.

So if you're not better off than me for your beliefs.....what's the point of your believing in the first place?
Why should I believe in something that doesn't make me better?

P.s:Previous P.s applies here.

bluefete I think you should take your marbles and go now..this thread has ended!

There is hope for you yet. You are doing exactly as God said you should.
The greatest of all commandments is "Love Thy Neighbour". So subconsciously you are doing things that stem from a belief that does make you better.

You and the Big Man will deal up.[/quote]

[nismotrinidappa]

bluefete you need to take it easy... you hitting them too hard. keep it simple..

duane 3ne2nr the aliens also probably follow the ten commandents and love your intergalactic neighbour. that is the reason they have not gone laser gun tisic all over mg man

also they do not covet thy neighbours goods else you would see the tractor beam going off with your 1wheel drive evo and u cant do one damn thing and alf upgrading the turbo for e.t to run down the 1320.

forget about religion and focus on life for a second.. how is it that the tribe living a million miles in the congo have a specific order and hierarchy and know good from bad? man has a conscience that tells him good from bad , right from wrong on the deepest level. they dont know about god and mass etc in that sense as we do.. but they do have a deep subconscious understanding .

how does science explain that? a conscience? that you know what you do is wrong...whether you do it or not? i challenge you to that!!

also i dont know if i should challenge you seeing i may feel guilty but if you all believe there is no god and no good and evil why dont you go play with a simple innocent oiuja board big bad fearless men like nati and mg man et al?

and you all wanted your board lime for the longest while? then when yuh new "padna" coming to lime with yuh 2 in d morn you will be able to tell us in more detail about your "sleep apnea'"


when yuh mammy tell yuh d fire hot and dont touch it you eh believe... and you want to burn to learn

[MG Man]

also i dont know if i should challenge you seeing i may feel guilty but if you all believe there is no god and no good and evil why dont you go play with a simple innocent oiuja board big bad fearless men like nati and mg man et al?

ouija board?
you for real?
the absence of the devil does not mean there are scary forces out there
gravity scares the heck outta me when I off de ground

[Humes]

forget about religion and focus on life for a second.. how is it that the tribe living a million miles in the congo have a specific order and hierarchy and know good from bad? man has a conscience that tells him good from bad , right from wrong on the deepest level. they dont know about god and mass etc in that sense as we do.. but they do have a deep subconscious understanding .

how does science explain that? a conscience? that you know what you do is wrong...whether you do it or not? i challenge you to that!!

It's called a social instinct. It's the same reason certain animals can move and work together in herds. It has nothing to do with spirituality, and everything to do with rationality.

Early humans needed each other to survive. If you're going to stay together in a cohesive group and work together, you can't go around doing whatever you want to those around you...things would fall apart. So simple rules like no stealing, no murder etc developed around that logic.

Order and hierarchy developed around this way of thinking as well. Man, like many other animals, saw the need for leaders of the group. The strongest or wisest led. After a while, leadership became an office determined by hereditary or political factors.

Spirituality is used to persuade those who either don't understand or are dissatisfied with this logic. It adds factors that are more intimidating or more appealing to some people. Who eh fraid jail might fraid hell, who doh care about working together for a greater good on Earth might be convinced to do so if the reward is eternal paradise.

But while those factors might be helpful, it doesn't make them fact.

It's like the different approaches a parent might take to stop a child from making faces. Depending on the maturity of the child, you can tell him that he's being disrespectful and offensive to people. But with some children, you need to lie and tell them their face will stick that way.

[Humes]

Guys just a lil question..Can someone explain a "thought" from a scientific point of view...

A thought is an electrochemical process in your brain. We discussed it earlier in the thread.

[Humes]

you all believe there is no god and no good and evil

If you're talking about good and evil supernatural forces, no I don't believe in that.

If you're talking about good and evil as determined subjectively by human society...of course that exists. Few atheists would tell you otherwise.

What they'd remind you is that good and evil are subjective. What some people see as evil, others might not. There are only a few things that almost everyone sees as evil.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

It's like the different approaches a parent might take to stop a child from making faces. Depending on the maturity of the child, you can tell him that he's being disrespectful and offensive to people. But with some children, you need to lie and tell them their face will stick that way.

so you're saying that some humans need to be lied to and scared into being good; fooling them into believing that something bad will happen to them if they are not nice? Are you also implying that the less mentally "mature" ones usually need this kind of false coaxing?

sorry if I read too much into your analogy.

[DFC]

thats exactly what the bible does...
scares you with all this talk of Hell and Satan..

and that is what i hear them preachers talking about all the time...satan this..satan that..
you going to hell
YOU GOING TO HELL!!

now...obviously..you gonna be scurd!...

but you god fearers..
especially bluefete...do you really beleive in the Satan?
and dont quote no bible ...give me you honest answer..what you truely believe in.

[bluefete]

thats exactly what the bible does...
scares you with all this talk of Hell and Satan..

and that is what i hear them preachers talking about all the time...satan this..satan that..
you going to hell
YOU GOING TO HELL!!

now...obviously..you gonna be scurd!...

but you god fearers..
especially bluefete...do you really beleive in the Satan?
and dont quote no bible ...give me you honest answer..what you truely believe in.

Brief answer = Yes.
Surely all the evil in the world cannot be the work of only men and women. Are we really that bad or good all by our lonesome selves?

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction (somewhere from a physics class).

Gotta run but I'll be back later to answer the rest. These questions and comments are most informative.

[Humes]

so you're saying that some humans need to be lied to and scared into being good; fooling them into believing that something bad will happen to them if they are not nice? Are you also implying that the less mentally "mature" ones usually need this kind of false coaxing?

sorry if I read too much into your analogy.

That kinda language is what makes some people emotional and defensive and what makes the discussion go (further) downhill. I think I explained it well enough one paragraph up.

[DFC]

So how come....The devil can exist ..together with god?

If god is all powerful....how can he allow the devil to exist?

for god to allow the devil to exist....and challenge him..and for god to allow him to exist.......it means god is either crazy..or maybe he cant..put a stop to the devil.

if he cant put a stop to the devil..then he is not all powerful...and he is not god!

what is the concept of god in your eyes?

[Skanky]

bluefete debating with you is pointless.

I'll be the first to admit that I want to believe,I really do, that there is a god....but until there is evidence of such I'll just live my life the way I know how.I think I'm doing fine thus far.I think every non believer in this thread will believe if given sufficient reason/evidence,but some quotes from a book....allyuh cyar be serious.

Another thing...suppose god turns out to be ancient beings from other planets...what then?You can't really believe ancient man toted all dem huge blocks of stone to build pyramids?

[MG Man]

skanky, I don't even want evidence.....I have tried to open my mind but the more I searched, the more I concluded the whole idea just makes no sense NONE
the idea, the rules laid down, the sheer vanity of it all
even without the stupidity of religion, the idea of god is a dumb one

[slimshiney]

Guys just a lil question..Can someone explain a "thought" from a scientific point of view...

A thought is an electrochemical process in your brain. We discussed it earlier in the thread.

Has science fully yet understood this...?

bluefete debating with you is pointless.

I'll be the first to admit that I want to believe,I really do, that there is a god....but until there is evidence of such I'll just live my life the way I know how.I think I'm doing fine thus far.I think every non believer in this thread will believe if given sufficient reason/evidence,but some quotes from a book....allyuh cyar be serious.

Another thing...suppose god turns out to be ancient beings from other planets...what then?You can't really believe ancient man toted all dem huge blocks of stone to build pyramids?

Science says we use five senses we use to identify and observe finite things around us...So my question...Is there anything in this world that our five senses can't "pick up".

[Razkal]

^ science has always been the first to admit it doesn't know or can't currently explain something, i believe enough is known about the human thought process to have a suitable answer for your pending question.

"pick up" or perceive? we live and operate within a particular scale in the universe, but on a much much smaller scale, like the Quantum scale, there is a whole other set of activity and forces/changes in forces that are theoretically perceivable by our five senses but yet we don't have a clue of their going-ons. so yes, there is plenty our five senses can't "pick up".

[slimshiney]

Thank you bro( Razkal), I understand your response..So yes there is plenty our five senses can't "pick up".

I just need answers so forgive me if i keep throwing questions? Here it goes.........

Within the parameters of the scientific explanation of the five senses.....Is it possible to believe in something that is and at the same time that isn't? (due to the fact that it's humanly impossible to do such as a result of parameters in the senses)..

If yes .....What is it that triggers the mind into believing in something, although, naturally speaking...It would be an outright illogical action.....

one love...

[QG]

[Razkal]

slimshiney,

Within the parameters of the scientific explanation of the five senses.....Is it possible to believe in something that is and at the same time that isn't? (due to the fact that it's humanly impossible to do such as a result of parameters in the senses)..

well i think i may need a little more clarification from you on what you're asking, because, you have a bit of contradiction going on there at the end..

you see, imo, for us to believe in something "that is", means it exists physically, or in a way that can be verified/perceived as reality by one or more of the human senses, or equally important imo, human logical reasoning.

for us to believe in something "that isn't", i assume you meant "that isn't perceivable by the human senses", in which case, the brain is fed no data from which it can draw conclusions about the potential existence of something, BUT, that does not equate to its definite non-existence or vice versa.

so, at least the way i reason it, it's not possible, or plausible, to believe in something that simultaneously "is and isn't"...such a situation implies a fundamental error in perception. check scienceforums.com, there are sections on psychology and discussions about the thought process etc etc which may clarify things a bit more...

If yes .....What is it that triggers the mind into believing in something, although, naturally speaking...It would be an outright illogical action.....

ahhhh! great question....i'm sorry i have no conclusive answer to that, but i'm positive it has alot to do with human nature, and our unique thought processes.
also, the human mind is as fragile and malleable as it is unique and amazing,

Error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.