Proposal for regularising Crowd pleaser competitions

[audiopipe]

CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG , most cars that enter crowdpleaser competetions and win plays dub plates either shittin up the next car or biggin up himself so how can the crowd judge which car sounded the best when crowdpleaser turn into a clash of dub plates.

for the spectators rta an spl is no fun . most people prefer to listen to something play rather than seeing a car pull into the arena an burp for a 30 seconds

as far as the judge category goes I think crowdpleaser competetion sound be renamed judgepleaser competetion .

thats why crowdpleaser should be a playing competetion where the crowd can judge a car play for about half to 3\4 of a song for about 3 rounds an then cheer for the car they find sounded the best then maybe a spl mic could be used to have an average spl rating for the loudest crowd

another things is most of these crowdpleaser cars are not even practical with boxes hanging for the hood . how could a car with a wall with 2 15'' enter against a car with a trunk install

if we listen to everyones opinion then we would end up with a situation where everyone will be gettin a trophy cause everyone will create some kinda category to suit his own car where he will win because of some rule or the other i guess dats why crowdpleaser has not change in the last 10 or more years

[infinite_RPM]

d crowd doh choose which car soundin d best... dey choose d one dey like d most/support..... it suppose to be a clash!!! each car competing to get d crowds attention... an if u din realise it have a cuss in d second line of ur post audiopipe

[SR]

maybe you havent understood the post

"for the spectators rta an spl is no fun . most people prefer to listen to something play rather than seeing a car pull into the arena an burp for a 30 seconds"

this is a pre qualifying round for a competitior to advance to the final rounds to play for the crowd

[spam]

ok so to sr and fuzz and other iasca trained people

i know standing around the car can affect your hearin as you guys say on a regular

basis, but if it is you all wear some kinda ear plugs wont that lessen the "noise" you all

hear as to not damage your hearing but at the same time these cars loud enough for u

to even wit the plugs and make a good choice.

just an idea not sure if it could work

[casper]

cant judge with ear plugs spam... lol

[riadb]

maybe we should stand in the crowd then?
and make our judgements from that perspective

[SmokeyGTi]

^^ was gonna post that
I don't see anything wrong with that.

Audiopipe i don't see anything wrong with playing dubplates in the arena. Personally it's not my style - I'd prefer to find an original soundclash tune that sends the same message.

Judging the SQ of a vehicle's install will always be a difficult task - everyone has a different idea of what sounds good to them.

It's nice to use the RTA mic but what are you looking for? Are you looking at the frequencies to see if the install has a flat response? cuz u know u ain't gonna find that - or are you just measuring spl alone with the vehicle?

[noyztoyz]

what if the senseless crowdpleaser competitions were kept so that more ppl wud be forced to come shows and more money would be made AND

for the judged category.

the spl tingy was done to select competitors for for the judging category, the mic is placed outside the vehicle some distance away, and the cars play whatever bass they want to get their highest score on the spl meter and then top 3 chosen, to go into arena

now theres the problem of different cars having differrent tunings of bass, one might get max score burping 65hz another more musical vehicle might get it burping 40hz.
so to get over this problem we let each vehicle choose a tune to play, and the 3 vehicles must play these tunes in turn.
Meters will be used to record the spls they make playing these tunes. After this each vehicle will have 3 spl readings and then an average is taken.

Whoever gets highest wins..

this eliminates a few problems, some of what were raised in the above discussion
1) the meter is now d judge and not a human judge with unfair intentions
2) less vehicles with this loud loud high tune bass thingy because they claim that does trow better in the crowd:?, vehicles will become more musical.(i know some vehicles that cant play below 55hz and dey win competitions)
3) no one could complain after that the louder (or lower) bass does 'hit d meter harder' so daiz y dey get beat, because they had a chance to pick a song closest to their bass tuning, and everyone had dey own song choice so its fair.
this is also an important problem to take care of because this had resulted in the virtual disapearance of low bass vehicles from shows. I have ppl kissing my feet to bring my high output low basser to shows now..
4) a method is devised to incorporate the midsline of a vehicle into the judging where some meter measures how loud some mids play or somn, you all will know better than me in this part.

what yall think bout this

In dis whole ched ppl just raising points but no one starting a solution,
i started one, so lets alter to suit please

[riadb]

the mic is placed outside the vehicle some distance away, and the cars play whatever bass they want to get their highest score on the spl meter and then top 3 chosen, to go into arena

tried this already before....the slightest wind or breeze distorts the SPL readings, happened at the test and tune when we actually tried it with the old IASCA RTA meter.

[infinite_RPM]

not only that^^.. there is no way for the mic to measure sound quality..or balance of bass and mids.. And whatever criteria the judges use to judge...but honestly fellas...how will you feel if you pay your money and u dont even get a chance in the arena? Some people have good ideas.. But yuh cant just go and change d rules and regulations jus so... daz like pelting a jep nest and not running away.. dat will cause so much confusion... So rovin rite.. we back to square one... Fair or Unfair....it look like tings gona remain the same

[silent_riot]

the mic is placed outside the vehicle some distance away, and the cars play whatever bass they want to get their highest score on the spl meter and then top 3 chosen, to go into arena

tried this already before....the slightest wind or breeze distorts the SPL readings, happened at the test and tune when we actually tried it with the old IASCA RTA meter.

Please get your facts right.
Breeze did not 'distort' any SPL readings.
We did not use an 'old' iasca rta meter at the test and tune, it was the current meter and mics.
We did not test SPL outside the vehicle at the test and tune, we bass raced inside, burped inside, then RTA'd the cars from outside. This is what SR is suggesting minus the outside RTA.
What noyztoyz is taking about is like a 'drive-by' competition where low frequency SPL is measured outside the vehicle.

[riadb]

^^ ok sorry....my bad!!!

[noyztoyz]

Some people have good ideas.. But yuh cant just go and change d rules and regulations jus so... daz like pelting a jep nest and not running away.. dat will cause so much confusion... So rovin rite.. we back to square one... Fair or Unfair....it look like tings gona remain the same

this aint no PNM-runned ting, if somn not best we gonna do things to make it better. D carshows dese days too much ppl complaining, somn must be done.

but honestly fellas...how will you feel if you pay your money and u dont even get a chance in the arena? Some people have good ideas..

ok 1st problem with my suggestion we entered.
Lets try and get over this one.
Many ppl enter shows to dispaly dey car get a thumbs up for good work and feel good, dey dont have to enter a arena. If a man have a 1 15 system with 50k spent to get it how good it is, and a nex man come with a 15 system with only 20k spent you think he deserves to be in a arena competing? He go get lix fuh sure and ha to roll out empty handed. He should know better that the arena is for serious competition and if yuh bassline aint half ah what the best man in yuh category have yuh cant go compete.
Is probably dat being in a arena does make some ppl feel good even though dey fail?? daz somn dey have to get over and learn to cut it out..

I never went arena against dem other vehicles with 2 15s and i spent the same amt ah money dey spent on dey system.. i know my bassline cant take theirs because i still running light speakers..

In dese situations yuh does jess park up in the crowd an play yuh music and enjoy yuhself, yuh dont have to go arena and fail to enjoy yuhself??

the stiffest competitions alone need to go down in the arena.

In the crowd outside the arena the men who c ouldnt get in could battle out dey and make d show fun, hoss yuh know how long i aint see 2 vehicles going a good battle in a show? is because a dis same arena story..

anybody add or subtract..

[noyztoyz]

ok problem 2
will breeze and ting hamper spl reading in these drive-by situations we talkin bout in the plan?

[kurpal_v2]

ok problem 2
will breeze and ting hamper spl reading in these drive-by situations we talkin bout in the plan?

Afaik brezze wont affect a drive by with a SPL meter..


It would affect a RTA sensor though..

[ChristianRD]

Some people have good ideas.. But yuh cant just go and change d rules and regulations jus so... daz like pelting a jep nest and not running away.. dat will cause so much confusion... So rovin rite.. we back to square one... Fair or Unfair....it look like tings gona remain the same

this aint no PNM-runned ting, if somn not best we gonna do things to make it better. D carshows dese days too much ppl complaining, somn must be done.

but honestly fellas...how will you feel if you pay your money and u dont even get a chance in the arena? Some people have good ideas..

ok 1st problem with my suggestion we entered.
Lets try and get over this one.
Many ppl enter shows to dispaly dey car get a thumbs up for good work and feel good, dey dont have to enter a arena. If a man have a 1 15 system with 50k spent to get it how good it is, and a nex man come with a 15 system with only 20k spent you think he deserves to be in a arena competing? He go get lix fuh sure and ha to roll out empty handed. He should know better that the arena is for serious competition and if yuh bassline aint half ah what the best man in yuh category have yuh cant go compete.
Is probably dat being in a arena does make some ppl feel good even though dey fail?? daz somn dey have to get over and learn to cut it out..

I never went arena against dem other vehicles with 2 15s and i spent the same amt ah money dey spent on dey system.. i know my bassline cant take theirs because i still running light speakers..

In dese situations yuh does jess park up in the crowd an play yuh music and enjoy yuhself, yuh dont have to go arena and fail to enjoy yuhself??

the stiffest competitions alone need to go down in the arena.

In the crowd outside the arena the men who c ouldnt get in could battle out dey and make d show fun, hoss yuh know how long i aint see 2 vehicles going a good battle in a show? is because a dis same arena story..

anybody add or subtract..

[D-REDWAGON]

This is jus my opinion

Lightweight and Heavyweight would be nice but TIME to include this.

Puting men jus with a high SPL in d arena isn't fair as Casper said they might be loud but they mids could sond distorted.

We could use the Form as well as the meter and add the points then put the best three to five cars in d arena.

Also use d meter for the CP

Althought the judges for some promoters do have a lot of experience they should still be qualified, if they want to go the distance and be a judge, hope i don't mash any toes here.


What u'll think

[SR]

30 seconds peak and 30 seconds avg spl will not be test tones

it must be music and 1 door at least should be open

this will help eliminate cars built for spl and as it must be music tracks

[nello-sello]

two ideas..

(1) instead of measuring the spl of the cars..why not the crowd? After every car plays let the people make noise and measure that score in real time for every body to see. highest crowd spl level moves on. (it is assumed that all necessary measures to avoid maxi produced crowds will be taken etc etc by proper mic placement or whatever)

(2) have 5 or 7 "judges" ie people randomly chosen from the crowd or local celebs or some best looking girls sit at a table equiped with score cards 1-10. after each car plays they give their score. tally the scores , highest moves on. etc etc. Yes the "judges" may not be experts, but they dont have to be. They can and should solicit support from the crowd on what scores to give . It's about fun, and a good way to get the spectator more involved, have "judges" and still qualify as crowd pleaser.

[noyztoyz]

Puting men jus with a high SPL in d arena isn't fair as Casper said they might be loud but they mids could sond distorted.

the competition is a loud music competition, is 2 12 or 2 15, not 2 10 or 4 10 or 6 10 for mids, is a more bass competition. spling for bass outside the vehicle, would decide who gets in the arena. Somehow a method must be develop for assesing a cars midsline as well so that could add to their final score in the arena...


SR
d meter using to judge must be placed outside the vehicle because thats where we currently feel the bass in our clothes and choose winners right?
i dont think it should be placed inside, y do u think so?

nello-sello
d crowd pleaser comp is going to stay, the only upgrade it may get is that the crowd can be metered.
and letting a bawling crowd decide who gets to move on to the arena for judging makes no sense, that just added 10 more errors.

how d plan sounding so far?

[casper]

If a man have a 1 15 system with 50k spent to get it how good it is, and a nex man come with a 15 system with only 20k spent you think he deserves to be in a arena competing? He go get lix fuh sure and ha to roll out empty handed. He should know better that the arena is for serious competition and if yuh bassline aint half ah what the best man in yuh category have yuh cant go compete.

^^^what??? ...u hearing ureself?...so because ah man cant afford to spend $50k on a sound system he has NO RIGHT in a soundoff arena???...u being very inconsiderate man.

I never went arena against dem other vehicles with 2 15s and i spent the same amt ah money dey spent on dey system.. i know my bassline cant take theirs because i still running light speakers...

^^^this is your personal choice....right now orange pajero from creepers has almost half the power primera and psycho using on his 2 15's and he keeping up nicely...he using 2 3000.1 atomics...they using 2 5000.1 atomics

SR...why dont you guys test try this proposal you have here in one of IASCA shows and prove to ppl that it will work...next ting you know one of the promoters try this technique at their shows and the competitors dont like it and start to boycott the promoter's shows....

ppl in trini not ready for a drastic change like this...they would not appreciate it...some of the things some of ya'll in here saying i dont even agree with...yea there are complaints from some competitors with things being how it currently is but what will be their views on this new method?...CP is where most of the competitors in shows are at and to tamper with somn as important as that in a show is like a promoter committing suicide...if the gallery cars decide not to come ur show because they dont like this new way...yuh know how much money you gonna lose???

for the past couple MK shows, the gallery competitors are almost 4 times the amount than the IDBL competitors...what do u think this hints???..maybe u can see from this that most people prefer the traditional bring ure car, your crew, and have a shout fest; over going and test SPL on an official meter....its trinidad SR...not everyone gonna accept this with arms wide open as you think they would...

just because a couple of ppl on "trinituner" says that it will work doesnt necessarily mean that its gonna work eh...most people that go car shows and competes in CP dont even be on this or any other forum...many people in here think that CP is a waste of time...according to what i've seen in shows...its actually what pays the promoter's bills whether u all like it or not

no promoter that currently using the old method gonna risk their crowd by changing their format and introducing something COMPLETELY different and have a great chance of losing their supporters...if IASCA wanna try it then i wont mind seeing how it goes...i'm suprised that you made this proposal and haven't tried it yet in IASCA shows so far

[nello-sello]

I don't understand what you mean.

if you say the crowd can be metered but at the same time say letting a bawling crowd decide makes no sense, then how would the crowd be metered?

A lusty round of applause maybe? or thumbs up or thumbs down?

or even a nice really low sigh of dissapproval (28 hz an ting) and hive fives all around when we hear something we like

[noyztoyz]

ok casper concerning letting go of the crowd pleaser, no one even suggested that yet, the crowd pleaser comp is going to stay, jus maybe having the crowd being metered than listening with ears instead and making a decision, i know crowd pleaser is a exciting lil trini lime ting it should stay.

Its the judge catefory we talking bout editing.

If a man have a 1 15 system with 50k spent to get it how good it is, and a nex man come with a 15 system with only 20k spent you think he deserves to be in a arena competing? He go get lix fuh sure and ha to roll out empty handed. He should know better that the arena is for serious competition and if yuh bassline aint half ah what the best man in yuh category have yuh cant go compete.

^^^what??? Confused ...u hearing ureself?...so because ah man cant afford to spend $50k on a sound system he has NO RIGHT in a soundoff arena???...u being very inconsiderate man.

u didnt get me on that one up there casper.

lets say a man with 2 15s gets spled outside his vehicle and hits a 138(d man who spend 50k), then a man with another 2 15 gets spled and hits 130(d man who spent 20k). What does the latter individual needs to go in an arena to compete with a guy whose system is clearly super-superior?
In the arena is meters doing the judging as well, so scores aint going to change much dere, he will still get beat.
He deserves to be in an arena with cars at his level. I never said he doenst deserve to be in an arena. It will be wasting time putting all dem men with light 15s and small power against black primera in an arena judged by meters right?
Does my padna up d road with d 2 12 pioneer and d boss amp deserve to be in an arena with dutty wine and brutal business? Its a waste of time. If we had 48hour days and 24 hour car shows maybe we could consider it.

^^^this is your personal choice....right now orange pajero from creepers has almost half the power primera and psycho using on his 2 15's and he keeping up nicely...he using 2 3000.1 atomics...they using 2 5000.1 atomics

this is not a 50k to 20k comparison.
theres only a 6k price difference between 2 atomic 5k and 2 atomic 3k.
dis is why orange pajero could go in d arena with them. Theres no drastic price difference as i used in my example.

allyuh try and get me know, i trying to help SR around all the obstacles there are, so hopefully one day there will be smarter competitions and different vehicles will re-enter car shows and start taking home prizes and nobody guh be bawling it was unfair..

[audiopipe]

[quote="SR"]maybe you havent understood the post

"for the spectators rta an spl is no fun . most people prefer to listen to something play rather than seeing a car pull into the arena an burp for a 30 seconds"

this is a pre qualifying round for a competitior to advance to the final rounds to play for the crowd[/quote

sorry if i have offended anyone but i am just confused as to why are we trying to eliminate cars from the arena ; is it because of time ? or is it because the arena is to small?

if it is because of time and i am paying my money to hear an see vehicles compete in a crowdpleaser competition then i feel as i am being robbed .

the post never started out as to save time in shows but as a proposal to regularize crowdpleaser competitions in shows meaning crowdpleaser would be standardize , so why introduce the meter into a competition where there are no set rules

SR i know you are trying to help the situation( by the way nice to see you are trying to help the local auto sound industry ) but introducing the meter would be unfair to some just as walking with a maxi load of people so we're back to square one

maybe promoters could come together an form some sort of organization an finally put some set rules to a crowdpleaser competition making crowdpleaser an official competition in shows

this would ensure a given set of rules and categorys


With the present rules in crowdpleaser competitions nozytoyz brings up a good point with the price difference between the 50k system an 20k system
ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK AN WHAT EVER HAPPENS DON'T COMPLAIN.


some promoters advertise loudest 1 12'' others have best 1 12'' does this mean different shows have different competitions ?

[Loudsound Customs]

the mic is placed outside the vehicle some distance away, and the cars play whatever bass they want to get their highest score on the spl meter and then top 3 chosen, to go into arena

tried this already before....the slightest wind or breeze distorts the SPL readings, happened at the test and tune when we actually tried it with the old IASCA RTA meter.

Please get your facts right.
Breeze did not 'distort' any SPL readings.
We did not use an 'old' iasca rta meter at the test and tune, it was the current meter and mics.
We did not test SPL outside the vehicle at the test and tune, we bass raced inside, burped inside, then RTA'd the cars from outside. This is what SR is suggesting minus the outside RTA.
What noyztoyz is taking about is like a 'drive-by' competition where low frequency SPL is measured outside the vehicle.

i cud remember reading about a competition like this. it sounded really cool...
its where u play ur song while u drive by a specific distance from the meter.
the comp was called Loudest Drive By

[noyztoyz]

sorry if i have offended anyone but i am just confused as to why are we trying to eliminate cars from the arena ; is it because of time ? or is it because the arena is to small?

if it is because of time and i am paying my money to hear an see vehicles compete in a crowdpleaser competition then i feel as i am being robbed .

this is for judge category only.
For crowd pleaser the whole a trinidad could come if dey want in the arena. That comp will stay.

The judge category will be judged by a meter, doing the 3 tunes play, and average taken, and then a formula for assessing mids to add to the final score would be used. We have to make up a formula for it.
You see the judge category is judged by a meter, so it doesnt make sense letting Jack, Jill and James into the arena. Only those with the most superior systems would be let in (3 or 4).
Or we could be nice and let them all in and they would all lose because the most superior system would still win. Dats y we narrowing it down to 3 or 4 in the arena for judged category.

[SR]

If a man have a 1 15 system with 50k spent to get it how good it is, and a nex man come with a 15 system with only 20k spent you think he deserves to be in a arena competing? He go get lix fuh sure and ha to roll out empty handed. He should know better that the arena is for serious competition and if yuh bassline aint half ah what the best man in yuh category have yuh cant go compete.

^^^what??? ...u hearing ureself?...so because ah man cant afford to spend $50k on a sound system he has NO RIGHT in a soundoff arena???...u being very inconsiderate man.

I never went arena against dem other vehicles with 2 15s and i spent the same amt ah money dey spent on dey system.. i know my bassline cant take theirs because i still running light speakers...

^^^this is your personal choice....right now orange pajero from creepers has almost half the power primera and psycho using on his 2 15's and he keeping up nicely...he using 2 3000.1 atomics...they using 2 5000.1 atomics

SR...why dont you guys test try this proposal you have here in one of IASCA shows and prove to ppl that it will work...next ting you know one of the promoters try this technique at their shows and the competitors dont like it and start to boycott the promoter's shows....

ppl in trini not ready for a drastic change like this...they would not appreciate it...some of the things some of ya'll in here saying i dont even agree with...yea there are complaints from some competitors with things being how it currently is but what will be their views on this new method?...CP is where most of the competitors in shows are at and to tamper with somn as important as that in a show is like a promoter committing suicide...if the gallery cars decide not to come ur show because they dont like this new way...yuh know how much money you gonna lose???

for the past couple MK shows, the gallery competitors are almost 4 times the amount than the IDBL competitors...what do u think this hints???..maybe u can see from this that most people prefer the traditional bring ure car, your crew, and have a shout fest; over going and test SPL on an official meter....its trinidad SR...not everyone gonna accept this with arms wide open as you think they would...

just because a couple of ppl on "trinituner" says that it will work doesnt necessarily mean that its gonna work eh...most people that go car shows and competes in CP dont even be on this or any other forum...many people in here think that CP is a waste of time...according to what i've seen in shows...its actually what pays the promoter's bills whether u all like it or not

no promoter that currently using the old method gonna risk their crowd by changing their format and introducing something COMPLETELY different and have a great chance of losing their supporters...if IASCA wanna try it then i wont mind seeing how it goes...i'm suprised that you made this proposal and haven't tried it yet in IASCA shows so far :roll:

rather biased views from you casper

1st of all
Bass boxing is the official competiton from IASCA
i am offering a possible solution to manage the crowd pleaser competition

with regards to amount of people taking part in idbl over crowd pleaser at mk shows

let em ask you this
during the actual idbl competion how many people in the crowd knows whats going on
other than the periodic announcment that idbl is going the dj just plays music as loud as they can with no commentary to the crowd as to what is taking place
in other words idbl takes a back seat

how can a promoter expect it do do well or increase if at the show it does not get fair play

in the past incorrect information regarding iasca categories are on the flyers as well as when you look at a flyer at times you cannot even tell this is really an iasca sanctioned event

in other words the show was not promoted to the iasca competitors


it seems as if iasca is a burden at your shows casper and maybe we shouldnt be there at all

if this is the case please let me know so we can make alternate arrangements




again
my post is to suggest formalising of this type of competition and stimulate educated discussion amongst those who are in the business of car audio and competition etc

for others who simply just posting what they "feel" or seem to be offended by comments made maybe you need to sit back and let the people with more experience in this buisness to the talking

[xeon]

And the battle of >>>>> IASCA vs CROWD PLEASER<<<<<< has just begun.

[SR]

there is no battle

iasca has 3 official sound competitons
SQ
IdBl
Bass Boxing

[D-REDWAGON]

No fighting no fighting, lets jus stay on the topic and try to get the best solution.

There's alot of good solutions so we can jus bring our ideas together and select the best solution.

so what do we have so far.