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Misconceptions about automatic trannys

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xtech
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Misconceptions about automatic trannys

Postby xtech » August 10th, 2008, 9:12 am

I will break down a few things that I feel are very large misconceptions about our automatic tranny in general. And hope to answer the questions people have about Valve body upgrades, Shift kits, Tranny coolers, and how to pick the right stall converter.


So why did car makers tuned our tranny so soft and what can I do to make it better?


Factory programming achieves comfort.


The automatic transmissions coming off the assembly lines are truly masterpieces of engineering. But engineers have been asked to program the shifting for smoothness and comfort. Also, consumer attitude surveys show that drivers believe a soft, smooth shift is easier on the transmission. Actually, just the reverse is true.


To add comfort, designers have had to subtract a considerable amount of efficiency and durability. They have achieved comfort by extending the time duration of every shift. Not only does power slip away during this extended shift, but all friction surfaces receive excessive wear because they are asked to work overtime.


The stock automatic takes longer to complete each shift so only mild acceleration. During this period only a partial power condition exists because the friction elements are slipping.


This extended slipping time prevents the inertial energy from being efficiently utilized. It is lost in the form of heat on the clutches and bands, instead of being utilized for forward motion. Continually operating a stock automatic at full throttle will cause early friction element failure.


To get high performance and improved durability in an automatic, we must improve the way it executes every shift.


So how do you make the shift faster without losing precision?


An automatic with a
Re-programming kit
Shift kit,
Valve body upgrade kit

will shift fast enough to take advantage of inertial energy from rotating mass, including the inertial energy from the transmission itself. In driving this conversion at full throttle a sudden forward lurch can be felt when it shifts, very similar to a power-shifted manual.


So as the elapsed time of shifting is decreased, the life of the transmission friction materials is increased.

Installing a re-programming kit, Shift kit, or Valve body upgrade kit will at least double the life of the friction materials in the transmission. In many heavy-duty applications, a kit has made the difference between a few months service without repair and several years.


The shorter shift time allows the friction elements and gears far less time to wear themselves out. The useful life of the friction elements in a transmission is directly related to the amount of slipping that is allowed to occur during shifts.


Slipping converts useful energy to heat on the surface of the clutches and bands. This heat transforms the friction material to ash, which polishes its mating element, causing further slipping, heat and deterioration of the friction elements.


The gears receive less wear, too. A slow shift causes them to be partially engaged for a longer period during the gear changing process, resulting in unnecessary heat, wear and power loss.


Now when dealing with Higher HP cars the amount of force that is applied may and has caused hard parts to fail as there stress levels have been reached. One that jumps out at most is the Sprag gear.


A Sprag gear is a one way roller bearing with a z spring that holds the rollers in place. These are made from stamped material and are not as solid a solid unit would be. The unit will free roll in one direction but will lock when tried to role in the opposite direction.





Think of a tranny cooler like and Intercooler for your tranny. The factory cooler is actually part of the stock radiator and is not a true cooler like the radiator for the motor. By adding an inline cooler with the factory cooler you help extend the life of even a stock car. And car that is having any type of performance mods done should have one installed as soon as possible. Always remember heat kills and auto tranny faster then anything else.



Shift Kit


A shift kit is the most basic upgrade to a transmission. It usually involves the replacing of a few springs, adding a few spacers, which can range from small puck, small shafts, and washers. Drilling or enlarging a few holes in a separator plate. Adding changing or removing check balls.


* Separator Plate is the pcs that separates the main body and valves of the Valve body from the transmission case this is usually covered on both sides with a gasket with holes for proper fluid flow.


* Check balls are small ball bearings that are use to restrict flow threw a passage in the valve body so that exicive overlap does not occur or that a certain gear is not applied while in the middle of a gear.


Valvebody upgrade


A Valvebody upgrade is one step up from a shift kit it requires more skill and time to preform. It involves all of the basic items from in shift kit but will also include the following. Full replacement of necessary valves with new valves made to spec these usually replace the valves that were spaced. Involves increasing passage way’s and restricting flow threw certain passages of the Valve body and case. New redesigned gaskets for the separator plate and case.


Not all of these items are necessary for a valve body up grade but notice the differences between the shift kit and Valve body upgrade


Re-Programming kit ( electronic shift kit)


A Re-Programming kit deals with the electrical side of the transmission. There are no mechanical adjustments made to the transmission with this type of kit. The kit can be programmed to tell the solenoids when to come on and off or how much line pressure should be in the system at any given time.


In my opinion a re-programming kit that is used with out a Valvebody upgrade will force the tranny into a higher overlap time with greater pressure and will cause the transmission fail sooner. If properly tuned with a valve body upgrade this is the ideal unit as pressure can be regulated and shift timing can be determined.

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Postby xtech » August 10th, 2008, 9:20 am

An aftermarket converter for any car will be smaller in diameter and is lighter than factory, therefore has the same effect as installing a lightweight flywheel on a manual transmission by allowing the engine to spin up faster. The torque converter also acts as a torque multiplier, and by raising the stall speed you can put the engine closer to its range of peak torque. This has the effect of launching the car harder, and once you are closer to the peak torque range, the car will accelerate quicker. It’s not uncommon to see reductions of up to 1.5 seconds in the 1/4 mile simply by changing the converter.

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Postby SurGTR » August 10th, 2008, 10:39 am

nice

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Postby megadoc1 » August 10th, 2008, 8:43 pm

cool

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Postby GTi Guy » August 10th, 2008, 8:59 pm

nice

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Postby Conrad » August 10th, 2008, 10:20 pm

...and people does laugh when they see auto 300ZXs and Supras in the Cars & Auto Parts Forum.

Good.

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Postby THE SYNDICATE » August 11th, 2008, 7:04 am

nice....... :fadein:

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Postby xtech » August 12th, 2008, 9:40 pm

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/MvLoX0z9qoY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Upgrading Torque Converters

If your vehicle is pre-'90s and has an automatic transmission, chances are it could really benefit from a modern performance torque converter. In its quest for more efficiency and performance, the auto industry has put an incredible amount of research and development into torque converters. The result is torque converters that provide much more torque multiplication (more on that later) and higher efficiency. These benefits are available for your older vehicle and will literally transform the way it drives and performs.


Old-style ('50s-'70s) torque converters rarely failed so car owners gave them little thought. Failures were usually caused by rocking a car from drive to reverse trying to get unstuck in the snow, or overheating the trans by towing thereby wiping out the phenolic bushings and washers found in stock torque converters. Another cause of torque converter failure is when the engine's horsepower is increased without installing a performance torque converter that has been fortified for the extra power. Lock-up torque converters introduced in the '80s and used in virtually every automatic transmission today were prone to clutch failure early on, but most of those problems have been resolved.

When to Replace
How can you tell if your torque converter needs replacing? Some sure signs are metal contamination in the transmission fluid. A loss of power or a loss of stall speed (the rpm at which a converter slips when you step on the gas). A torque converter may make a grinding noise from internal metal-to-metal contact when clearances go away. Basically, if your transmission fluid has been cooked several times or the transmission has failed sending debris into the converter, then it's time for a rebuilt converter. Expect to fork out $150-$250 for a standard rebuilt replacement converter.


For an additional $200-$400 you can replace your present torque converter with a modern performance converter and gain the performance benefits plus durability that is unavailable in OE replacements. And it's the perfect resto modification. It can't be detected by any show judge and the vehicle can always be returned to original by installing the OE converter (not that anyone would want to).

What to Expect
Okay, what do you get for your $450-$650 dollars? Depending who you purchase the torque converter from, this is what you should get. A modern converter core (virtually all torque converters are rebuilt from existing OE cores). Early torque converters from the '60s typically had a 1.7- 1.9-torque multiplication factor. What this means is that if your engine produced 200 lb.-ft. of torque at the converter's stall speed, it would multiply it by 1.7 providing 340 lb.-ft. of torque to the driveshaft. A typical modern torque converter has a torque multiplication factor of 2.5, so just changing to a modern design with the same stall speed would bump the torque from 340 lb.-ft. at the driveshaft to 500 lb.-ft. without touching the engine.

Potential gains with a performance torque converter is increased stall speed. Racers have known this speed secret for years.

Install a smaller-diameter torque converter, one with more stall speed (slip), and the engine will launch the car in its power band. Racers try to match torque converter stall speed with the engine's peak torque. Street driven cars can benefit by just increasing stall speed enough to get into the "fat" part of the torque curve.

Let's say our hypothetical engine makes its 200 lb.-ft. of torque at 1800 rpm (a typical stock stall speed converter). However, at 2500 rpm it produces 300 lb.-ft. of torque. That means this same engine could now put 750 lb.-ft. of torque to the driveshaft for take-off compared to the stock 340 lb.-ft. produced with the OE torque converter. By changing the torque converter you've more than doubled the output torque of the engine!

Additional Mods
Other modifications that should be included in any high performance torque converter are furnace brazed fins, Torrington-style thrust washers and a heavy-duty sprag. Many companies sell "high-stall speed" torque converters that are just modified low torque multiplication converters. They will get the engine up into its torque band, but you loose the efficiency of the new converter designs. For instance, most race style converters have been and are still being built out of '60s Opel torque converter cores. Much more efficient race converters are being constructed with Dodge Neon cores.

A final word of caution: Any time you increase torque converter stall speed (slip), you increase heat. Make sure that you install an auxiliary transmission cooler when you go to a high performance torque converter.

Torque Converter Tips

> Select a torque converter stall speed by matching it to a rpm where your engine is producing at least 80 percent of peak torque.


> Make sure that the torque converter you are purchasing has been modified from a modern, high torque multiplication core.

> Most tuners can determine the correct converter for your vehicle if you provide engine peak torque figure and rpm, vehicle weight, transmission type and tire diameter.
Last edited by xtech on August 13th, 2008, 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby FullStop » August 12th, 2008, 11:30 pm

where can these transmission upgrades be done locally? and are the costs as listed above or are those figures in USD, very good information.

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Postby civic SIR » August 13th, 2008, 9:35 am

good read here

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Postby ~Vēġó~ » August 13th, 2008, 10:00 am

good read there xtech!!!!

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Postby xtech » August 13th, 2008, 10:24 am

i rode in a Cressida a couple years back

a fast bugger with 6cly boy dat tranny used to shift HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ripping tires with every shift

always thought it was faulty but the owner always said it was how he liked it with a smile on his face. Thought he was crazy now i know it must have been one of these rebuilds he did.

look at this




http://www.levelten.com/store/import_home.htm
Last edited by xtech on August 13th, 2008, 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby bushwakka » August 13th, 2008, 4:38 pm

das a nice read

but sum synchro manual boxes like mine actually only allows u to to shift slow apparently otherwise u end up busting the synchros

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Postby Dave » August 13th, 2008, 4:46 pm

but sum synchro manual boxes like mine actually only allows u to to shift slow apparently otherwise u end up busting the synchros

all boils down to the rotating mass, lbs rating of pressure plate and how quick your fluid flows through he system

tsk tsk, i miss my auto sr :(

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Postby MJ » August 13th, 2008, 10:35 pm

very good read here!!!

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Postby eliteauto » August 13th, 2008, 10:54 pm

very nice read

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Postby trinianouk » August 14th, 2008, 9:53 am

Learned something here.... :fadein:

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Postby Greypatch » August 14th, 2008, 11:04 am

educational post yo

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Postby music madness crew » August 24th, 2008, 7:12 am

as was asked before is there anyone locally who does this and has the parts to do it??

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Postby xtech » August 24th, 2008, 7:45 am

is first time we hear bout this yo.....................

it seems to be a big secret local guys just know some bits an pieces. But combining these together nah.

We know about shift kits valve bodies and ECU upgrades but they need to be used in some combination.

The real shocker is that converters can be modified to fit different cars an be tuned to work with yuh shift kit, valvebody and ecu upgrades to see full performance

Big block american cars run with auto trannies like

Dukes of Harzzard shifting like a manual

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Postby SNIPER 3000 » August 24th, 2008, 10:35 am

Good info.
I miss my auto..........I find gears is so not necessary in theses times.

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Postby xtech » December 18th, 2008, 1:12 pm

bump

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Postby ruff neck chicken » January 14th, 2009, 11:03 pm

great stuff here but can u compare:-

the prices to get:
a re-programming kit
shift kit,
valve body upgrade kit
and maybe labour

as to just go manual.

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Postby SmokeyGTi » January 15th, 2009, 8:15 am

Conrad wrote:...and people does laugh when they see auto 300ZXs and Supras in the Cars & Auto Parts Forum.

Good.


buh ent the auto 300zx's faster on the 1/4 mile than the manual?

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Postby xtech » January 15th, 2009, 8:32 am

^^^^ less wheel spin................... never off boost

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Postby Conrad » January 15th, 2009, 9:59 am

SmokeyGTi wrote:
Conrad wrote:...and people does laugh when they see auto 300ZXs and Supras in the Cars & Auto Parts Forum.

Good.


buh ent the auto 300zx's faster on the 1/4 mile than the manual?


Exactly my point. They laugh because they're not aware.

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Postby Dave » January 15th, 2009, 10:36 am

great stuff here but can u compare:-

the prices to get:
a re-programming kit
shift kit,
valve body upgrade kit
and maybe labour

as to just go manual.


but at the end of the day, no conversion or make up items done and u performing like a manual w/o the clutch
why not
I did it and the priceless look is worth it!

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Postby RIZAMAN » January 16th, 2009, 11:22 am

I miss my MT a whole bunch...I was able to get an AT with manual shift mode. Not the best compromise, but I at least can throw it in whatever gear I want, when I want.

It does still shift the same regardless of what mode it's in though :(

Having a good motor is a BIG plus too - VQ FTW.

Also having a brother in law in Trinidad with an MT vehicle helps me get my ya ya's too

Image

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Postby M-Tech » January 20th, 2009, 4:00 am

Just for comparison the best compromise between A/T and M/T is the BMW SMGII (Sequential Manual Gearbox) not to be confused with Tiptronic that still uses a Torque Converter.

It is a full manual gearbox with pressure plate etc. When you shift, the ECU engages the clutch pedal mechanism puts in the gear and then releases the clutch. Totally opposite to an A/T where you can put it into manual mode and shift your gears for fun/marginal performance increase, you can put the SMGII into automatic mode and the ECU shifts the gearbox for you if you just want to relax.
It's also done faster than a human can. I think all tranny's should be like the BMW SMGII.

Looking to upgrade the torque converter in my 3S-GE Beams RS200 so good info here.

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Postby ~Vēġó~ » January 20th, 2009, 5:42 pm

Having a good motor is a BIG plus too - VQ FTW.

damn right!!!!

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