Petrotrin refinery shut down

[Redman]

A

gain with your sheit talk.
What do you consider more relevant, a two dollars strike, or a billion dollar management mistake?

Well obviously the management mistake.
But if you read the thread-that had nothing to do with the discussion-As I stated the Union will not strike against Patriotic.Therefore has little political influence as a UNION-ie irrelevant.
However if you need to highlight your Malcolm Jones issue-keep it on the burner -great,lets do that.

But where we were in 2017 and are now is NOT as a result of one man,one board,one union or one singular party----its decades Petrotrin being messed up by every govt/board.-But Im the one with the slant-

Malcolm Jones was mentioned only as a cautionary tale when unqualified, politically appointed hacks are appointed to key positions.

Agreed- every 5 years this happened.
That said, we are where we are, and it is not as if the concept of mis management is anything new.

As a side note... Tell me how Malcolm Jones was unqualified to Chair the Board of Petrotrin.
I expect that you will base this on his qualifications and work experience up to that point.

If your argument is that with skin in the game, the OWTU might make better decisions, then you're deliberately discounting the "test drive" facility extended to them by the PNM, which actually encourages mismanagement and a 10 days mentality.

The test drive means no payment to govt withing that timeframe.
It dont friggin mean that no money is required..FFS.

Getting the refinery operating from where it is today Sept 17th 2020 is free??
Only a dunce will think so.....it will be paid for how, by who,to be secured/repaid how/by who??
Not GORTT.

So if/when the Patriotic gets the refinery going is it not painfully obvious that some amount of money would have been put into the refinery??
It is equally painfully obvious that IF/WHEN Patriotic gets the refinery upgraded and fully operational it would have been on the back of agreements to secure:
a) The cost of remedial works to get the refinery operating....
b)How the Refinery will be operating-with all the history already known(basically everything you are talking about) and there would be agreements/personnel/ and oversight to ensure that the refinery is run properly in order to repay financing provided for the initial start up and operational continuity.
c) What ever financial arrangements that kick in after the test drive is over.

At the end of this a TON of money would have been sank into the refinery, upgrading it to bring it to operational status.
Whoever financed this is going to be calling the shots.
Only a fool would think that a financing entity would lend a few Billion USD,sink it into a Refinery and not have a handle on how its going to be run, and the ability to influence if not control WHAT happens.
Your post clearly shows that you believe that....

Anyway keep your head firmly in the red sand, it will serve you well with this PNM GORTT

You are so anxious -almost rabid to call names and hurl childish insults you dont realize that you demonstrate in your posts that you dont understand that there HAS to be a financing arrangement in order for the OWTU/Patriotic to begin operating and that ultimately the financing will come with controls.

Getting the refinery into operations will not be free.

[sMASH]

Erol McLeod, rope head, as soon as they in the inside, they turn against their previous base.

No reason fir the union to stay loyal to roget and fall In Line. After a certain level. U can't join a union... Cause u would be part of the problem the union has to battle.
I think from superintendent up.

[zoom rader]

Meanwhile at the ranch........

Bahamas Petrol company buys out Columbus energy of TT.

Well done Banana republic of TT

https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/londo ... h/82933394

[Redman]

Meanwhile at the ranch........

Bahamas Petrol company buys out Columbus energy of TT.

Well done Banana republic of TT

https://uk.advfn.com/stock-market/londo ... h/82933394

If you wanted to finance drilling a well...you cannot do that here, unless you have house and land and car to secure the loan.
Much less would any local operator want to list..

We really messed up that.

This place eh easy

[wing]

https://guardian.co.tt/business/patriot ... 97264f1b95


Plot thickens

[The_Honourable]

Govt gives Patriotic October 31 deadline to close refinery deal

FINANCE Minister Colm Imbert says Patriotic Energies and Technologies has until October 31 to reach an agreement on the sale of the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery.

He was delivering the national budget in Parliament on Monday afternoon.

Imbert said, "With Heritage Petroleum Ltd focusing on ramping up oil production in a cost-effective manner, the government is currently engaged in protracted discussions with Patriotic, with a view to satisfyingly concluding the sale and purchase agreement of the Pointe-a-Pierre refinery in the interest of all concerned, in particular – the public interest."

But he said if a viable or practical agreement cannot be reached by then after giving Patriotic "all possible opportunities to finalise the terms of the agreement," government will consider "other options."

Source: https://newsday.co.tt/2020/10/05/govt-g ... nery-deal/

[Redman]

Of course, Patriotic has the ability to file for a judicial review if they feel the need to.

Meaning if it is the GORTT that has been dragging its feet, the deadline can’t be enforced.

[De Dragon]

A

gain with your sheit talk.
What do you consider more relevant, a two dollars strike, or a billion dollar management mistake?

Well obviously the management mistake.
But if you read the thread-that had nothing to do with the discussion-As I stated the Union will not strike against Patriotic.Therefore has little political influence as a UNION-ie irrelevant.
However if you need to highlight your Malcolm Jones issue-keep it on the burner -great,lets do that.

But where we were in 2017 and are now is NOT as a result of one man,one board,one union or one singular party----its decades Petrotrin being messed up by every govt/board.-But Im the one with the slant-

Malcolm Jones was mentioned only as a cautionary tale when unqualified, politically appointed hacks are appointed to key positions.

Agreed- every 5 years this happened.
That said, we are where we are, and it is not as if the concept of mis management is anything new.

As a side note... Tell me how Malcolm Jones was unqualified to Chair the Board of Petrotrin.
I expect that you will base this on his qualifications and work experience up to that point.

If your argument is that with skin in the game, the OWTU might make better decisions, then you're deliberately discounting the "test drive" facility extended to them by the PNM, which actually encourages mismanagement and a 10 days mentality.

The test drive means no payment to govt withing that timeframe.
It dont friggin mean that no money is required..FFS.

Getting the refinery operating from where it is today Sept 17th 2020 is free??
Only a dunce will think so.....it will be paid for how, by who,to be secured/repaid how/by who??
Not GORTT.

So if/when the Patriotic gets the refinery going is it not painfully obvious that some amount of money would have been put into the refinery??
It is equally painfully obvious that IF/WHEN Patriotic gets the refinery upgraded and fully operational it would have been on the back of agreements to secure:
a) The cost of remedial works to get the refinery operating....
b)How the Refinery will be operating-with all the history already known(basically everything you are talking about) and there would be agreements/personnel/ and oversight to ensure that the refinery is run properly in order to repay financing provided for the initial start up and operational continuity.
c) What ever financial arrangements that kick in after the test drive is over.

At the end of this a TON of money would have been sank into the refinery, upgrading it to bring it to operational status.
Whoever financed this is going to be calling the shots.
Only a fool would think that a financing entity would lend a few Billion USD,sink it into a Refinery and not have a handle on how its going to be run, and the ability to influence if not control WHAT happens.
Your post clearly shows that you believe that....

Anyway keep your head firmly in the red sand, it will serve you well with this PNM GORTT

You are so anxious -almost rabid to call names and hurl childish insults you dont realize that you demonstrate in your posts that you dont understand that there HAS to be a financing arrangement in order for the OWTU/Patriotic to begin operating and that ultimately the financing will come with controls.

Getting the refinery into operations will not be free.

You remind me of a newborn, you cannot believe the stink sheit to come out of it, and how they seem unperturbed by said sheit, and wallow in it.
GORTT created this crisis by taking a FUNCTIONAL refinery and mothballing it against the advice of their own experts. Now that the deal cannot be closed, the costs to restart are mounting and now the OWTU is (rightly) calling for an asset integrity check, as there seemed to be absolutely NONE put in place by the GORTT. At the end of the day, the failure of the GORTT to close the deal with their preferred bidder is going to cost them, as the buyer will now legitimately claim that the delay was not of their doing, and demand concessions either on the sale price, or otherwise.
You seem not to understand international relations so you naive comment about the financier is expected, which is odd, because you're always yammering about narco states and sheit, but then again it was when you were accusing non-PNM GORTT's of being one, so I understand your sudden amnesia.
Sanction skirting nations will front that money easily, and given the PNM's failure to look beyond the grease hand (Bridgeman's, Severn Trent, World GTL) they will easily find their feet with a deal like this. The PNM has already proven to be quite willing to look the other way as with the "Aruban" oil shipment

[Redman]

Lol
Really lol.

I will reply if you get back on topic...you blathering a bunch of crap.

[De Dragon]

Lol
Really lol.

I will reply if you get back on topic...you blathering a bunch of crap.

When are you getting back your small pocket from JUHN Scarfy/Goebbels Young/Arse Wari/Guy Smiley/Fake Rasta/Impsy?

[wing]

https://trinidadexpress.com/news/local/ ... 2e1ad.html

[wing]

Deadline day today for completing the deal.

[jhonnieblue]

From what I was informed the deal already fell through. There is another prdered bidder and the aim is to award before end of year

[Redman]

Ive heard that its an issue with the assets to secure the funding- on the Govt side-they cant transfer title.

[wing]

Ive heard that its an issue with the assets to secure the funding- on the Govt side-they cant transfer title.

If that is the case, then it will be an issue for all potential buyers. Are they serious about selling? Anyway, will the OWTU survive if they don't gt.

[The_Honourable]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

[De Dragon]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Only took two years of lost Forex, refinery employees livelihoods and fence line communities detriment to realize that? Grate is the PNM!

[wing]

https://www.guardian.co.tt/news/patriot ... 8a4c428973

[elec2020]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Only took two years of lost Forex, refinery employees livelihoods and fence line communities detriment to realize that? Grate is the PNM!

Wasn't it reported that under the existing model petrotrin was essentially a net user of foreign exchange as a significant amount of barrels of oil needed to be imported for the refinery. The goal of the restructuring was to increase oil extraction to limit how much oil had to be imported for the refinery. (Cue name calling and unfounded statements)

[Redman]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Cant would only mean that it is encumbered beyond the numbers being offered here and the GORTT cant add any debt-

Doesnt want - means that they have a better idea-but the union will hand them their tail in court.


I guess we will have to wait and see

[De Dragon]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Only took two years of lost Forex, refinery employees livelihoods and fence line communities detriment to realize that? Grate is the PNM!

Wasn't it reported that under the existing model petrotrin was essentially a net user of foreign exchange as a significant amount of barrels of oil needed to be imported for the refinery. The goal of the restructuring was to increase oil extraction to limit how much oil had to be imported for the refinery. (Cue name calling and unfounded statements)

The refined goods they sold would have offset the crude price.

[Redman]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Only took two years of lost Forex, refinery employees livelihoods and fence line communities detriment to realize that? Grate is the PNM!

Wasn't it reported that under the existing model petrotrin was essentially a net user of foreign exchange as a significant amount of barrels of oil needed to be imported for the refinery. The goal of the restructuring was to increase oil extraction to limit how much oil had to be imported for the refinery. (Cue name calling and unfounded statements)

We imported 100k+ of oil a day.
Which was converted for refining.
about 70% of the output was for local consumption.

the rest exported.

Whether Petrotrin was actually a consumer or a generator of forex/ and whether profitable is subject of much speculation.

[elec2020]

Khan said in order to keep the refinery going the company has to import 110,000
barrels daily.

“What compounds this matter is that for every barrel of crude refined the company
loses US$2.50 to three US dollars per barrel, so you importing oil to lose money”.
https://www.thewestindianonline.com/gov ... petrotrin/

I don't know how credible Khan's statements are but it would explain why Petrotrin had such large debts. In that if u a net earner of foreign exchange u shouldn't have such a need for foreign loans. Not so? Its time to move pass biases. Study the facts presented. And figure out if the comments by those involved make sense.

[elec2020]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Only took two years of lost Forex, refinery employees livelihoods and fence line communities detriment to realize that? Grate is the PNM!

Wasn't it reported that under the existing model petrotrin was essentially a net user of foreign exchange as a significant amount of barrels of oil needed to be imported for the refinery. The goal of the restructuring was to increase oil extraction to limit how much oil had to be imported for the refinery. (Cue name calling and unfounded statements)

The refined goods they sold would have offset the crude price.

As Redman showed. If most being consumed pocally. U spending forex and not getting back forex. Hence u a net consumer of for ex.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

Khan said in order to keep the refinery going the company has to import 110,000
barrels daily.

“What compounds this matter is that for every barrel of crude refined the company
loses US$2.50 to three US dollars per barrel, so you importing oil to lose money”.
https://www.thewestindianonline.com/gov ... petrotrin/

I don't know how credible Khan's statements are but it would explain why Petrotrin had such large debts. In that if u a net earner of foreign exchange u shouldn't have such a need for foreign loans. Not so? Its time to move pass biases. Study the facts presented. And figure out if the comments by those involved make sense.

So why you feel anyone would want a refinery under that model? That should tell you something about the rush to get it back up and running.

[elec2020]

As stated earlier. The restructuring aimed at improving oil extraction. Reducing the need for importing oil for the refinery. So the recent demand for the refinery is driven by the fact that less oil needs to be imported. With lower production costs (it is fair to assume that locally produced crude from next door is cheaper than foreign crude on tankers) the refinery is more profitable than it was before.

[Allergic2BunnyEars]

As stated earlier. The restructuring aimed at improving oil extraction. Reducing the need for importing oil for the refinery. So the recent demand for the refinery is driven by the fact that less oil needs to be imported. With lower production costs (it is fair to assume that locally produced crude from next door is cheaper than foreign crude on tankers) the refinery is more profitable than it was before.

Refinery sale has nothing to do with heritage producing more oil. They aren’t producing significantly more barrels of oil. Less most likely. So that does not stand up to scrutiny. Refinery will run on majority imported crude. Volume sold locally is part of the picture. Ask how much it is sold for regionally and internationally before you say it is a net consumer. Read more. Petrotrin issue was that loan which it used to pay.

[De Dragon]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Only took two years of lost Forex, refinery employees livelihoods and fence line communities detriment to realize that? Grate is the PNM!

Wasn't it reported that under the existing model petrotrin was essentially a net user of foreign exchange as a significant amount of barrels of oil needed to be imported for the refinery. The goal of the restructuring was to increase oil extraction to limit how much oil had to be imported for the refinery. (Cue name calling and unfounded statements)

The refined goods they sold would have offset the crude price.

As Redman showed. If most being consumed pocally. U spending forex and not getting back forex. Hence u a net consumer of for ex.

Hence the word offset. The argument cannot be that processing a raw material into higher value end products results in a loss just by itself, rather it points to burdensome debt, inefficiency, too many employees and the attendant costs, or a failed business model, none of which are good btw.

[elec2020]

As stated earlier. The restructuring aimed at improving oil extraction. Reducing the need for importing oil for the refinery. So the recent demand for the refinery is driven by the fact that less oil needs to be imported. With lower production costs (it is fair to assume that locally produced crude from next door is cheaper than foreign crude on tankers) the refinery is more profitable than it was before.

Refinery sale has nothing to do with heritage producing more oil. They aren’t producing significantly more barrels of oil. Less most likely. So that does not stand up to scrutiny. Refinery will run on majority imported crude. Volume sold locally is part of the picture. Ask how much it is sold for regionally and internationally before you say it is a net consumer. Read more. Petrotrin issue was that loan which it used to pay.

"Petrotrin currently produces 40,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude, while its refinery operates at a capacity of 140,000 bpd, which requires the crude supplies to be imported. (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-refi ... SKCN1LD2NG)"

"At present oil production is at a low of approximately 66,000 barrels per day, with two-thirds of the production coming from state owned company Heritage Petroleum Company" (https://www.opm.gov.tt/pms-feature-addr ... onference/)

"Khan: TT Oil Production to Reach 90,000 bpd in 2020 (http://azpnews.com/khan-tt-oil-producti ... d-in-2020/)"

So actually, according to Khan, oil production should increase (2020 may be ambitious given the current pandemic though). Additionally, as I said before, the demand for the refinery would be driven by the promise of lower production costs. The refinery was bogged down by high production costs due to the need to import 100,000 barrels of oil per day (around that time oil prices floated between 50 and 60 US i believe so thats $5 million US a day just to purchase the oil, we ain't even talk about shipping and handling, transport from the ports to the refinery, etc). Now if the government does in fact reach to 90,000 barrels per day, the owner(s) of the refinery would only need to source 50,000 barrels of oil per day. so essentially that aspect of their production costs got cut in half. Which group interested in refining oil would not readily jump on that wagon. Again please use some critical thinking instead of just heresay and what your gut tells you.

[elec2020]

Can't transfer title as in a legal issue or the government doesn't want to give up the refinery (or the holding company Guaracara Refining Company under TPHL to Patriotic?)

Only took two years of lost Forex, refinery employees livelihoods and fence line communities detriment to realize that? Grate is the PNM!

Wasn't it reported that under the existing model petrotrin was essentially a net user of foreign exchange as a significant amount of barrels of oil needed to be imported for the refinery. The goal of the restructuring was to increase oil extraction to limit how much oil had to be imported for the refinery. (Cue name calling and unfounded statements)

The refined goods they sold would have offset the crude price.

As Redman showed. If most being consumed pocally. U spending forex and not getting back forex. Hence u a net consumer of for ex.

Hence the word offset. The argument cannot be that processing a raw material into higher value end products results in a loss just by itself, rather it points to burdensome debt, inefficiency, too many employees and the attendant costs, or a failed business model, none of which are good btw.

How can it be offset? It is a net consumer of foreign exchange. Okay. Let me break it down like this. The refinery needed 140,000 barrels per day while Petrotrin only produced 40,000. So 100,000 barrels per day had to be imported. Lets say the oil price in 2018 was 50 US. Thats 5 million US that was spent a day on the refinery. It is stated that most of that product was sold locally. So you spent a lot of US to produce the product and sold most of it in exchange for TT. If that is the case then you are a net consumer of foreign exchange (I highly doubt that even at marked up prices the refinery made up back that 5 million US in exports from the remaining products left after satisfying local demand)