Will there be Trinidad Carnival in 2021?

[Dizzy28]

There are articles from a few years back where the police spoke of extra officers on the road well in excess of capacity. I would assume it comes from non rostered officers being called out who normally would have completed their hours or officers on leave and as such are on OT.

I stand to be corrected

What about overtime for the protective services for Carnival? How much does that cost annually?

Who pays it Dean, Jules or Ronnie?

I don't think carnival should be banned but it should be regulated, taxed and shouldn't inconvenience people who are not involved in it. POS shouldn't shut down because of it. What's the opportunity costs for the lost productivity for the 6-8 weeks leading up to the event.

What about the societal cost due to this increasing carnival culture/mentality that is now in the country?

Carnival needs to take place in a way that doesn't shut down the country anymore.

It is taxed and extremely regulated. The opportunity cost can measured next year, but I can tell you first hand, other than the time lost at school, there is no detriment economically other than the cost of business we lose for ~1 week. But the gains from that one week are easily surpassed by almost 5 to 10x the earnings made from Carnival.

What overtime? Private events have extra duty the cost of which is borne by the promoter, the public events like kiddies carnival and MOn and Tues fall under regular duty. Officers are afforded carnival leave which are days off they apply for during the year

[Gladiator]

This is just a thought or maybe a fantasy..... but compare carnival to something like CES. I have been to CES and that draws a crowd of about 300,000 people strong. They stay in Las Vegas for a week and spend alot of money in hotel rooms and food etc. Each person spends at least USD$3000 and that event makes close to a billion USD.

Why can't our "culture" be something more constructive and progressive. Can we host a technology or CES type conference for the Caribbean. Invite manufacturers to our shores and get Latin America to buy in also. The Car Audio and DJ scene is big in Trinidad, what if we capitalize on that.

We can even chime in on the Carnival activity since the DJs and the music trucks use a lot of AV technology and manufacturers may have a market here to distribute to the region from. Boost trade, travel, hell... even R&D

If only...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions

Lol

Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

Won't it make more sense to keep those tens of thousands of citizens safe from infection next Carnival so you can have them there to spend money for many many future carnivals?

[Redress10]

This is just a thought or maybe a fantasy..... but compare carnival to something like CES. I have been to CES and that draws a crowd of about 300,000 people strong. They stay in Las Vegas for a week and spend alot of money in hotel rooms and food etc. Each person spends at least USD$3000 and that event makes close to a billion USD.

Why can't our "culture" be something more constructive and progressive. Can we host a technology or CES type conference for the Caribbean. Invite manufacturers to our shores and get Latin America to buy in also. The Car Audio and DJ scene is big in Trinidad, what if we capitalize on that.

We can even chime in on the Carnival activity since the DJs and the music trucks use a lot of AV technology and manufacturers may have a market here to distribute to the region from. Boost trade, travel, hell... even R&D

If only...

They eh wah dat...why ur so harden for?

Is wine and skin battam they like then beat they chest and say that is "we culture".

People eh realising that is carnival and carnival related activities that have the country in this mess. One setta mediocre music and mediocre artists. Not even to say the artists draw an international crowd like Coachella or something. The only tourists who coming here are ppl already familiar with the culture such as second generation trinis and their foreign friends.

Imagine carnival is what the young ones get to look forward to. Other cultures get self driven cars but we get beads and feathers and thongs...sickening place

[NR8]

This is just a thought or maybe a fantasy..... but compare carnival to something like CES. I have been to CES and that draws a crowd of about 300,000 people strong. They stay in Las Vegas for a week and spend alot of money in hotel rooms and food etc. Each person spends at least USD$3000 and that event makes close to a billion USD.

Why can't our "culture" be something more constructive and progressive. Can we host a technology or CES type conference for the Caribbean. Invite manufacturers to our shores and get Latin America to buy in also. The Car Audio and DJ scene is big in Trinidad, what if we capitalize on that.

We can even chime in on the Carnival activity since the DJs and the music trucks use a lot of AV technology and manufacturers may have a market here to distribute to the region from. Boost trade, travel, hell... even R&D

If only...

Food and rum festival...Trinis like dey belly. Just look at Barbados' as a noted international event.

[adnj]

This is just a thought or maybe a fantasy..... but compare carnival to something like CES. I have been to CES and that draws a crowd of about 300,000 people strong. They stay in Las Vegas for a week and spend alot of money in hotel rooms and food etc. Each person spends at least USD$3000 and that event makes close to a billion USD.

Why can't our "culture" be something more constructive and progressive. Can we host a technology or CES type conference for the Caribbean. Invite manufacturers to our shores and get Latin America to buy in also. The Car Audio and DJ scene is big in Trinidad, what if we capitalize on that.

We can even chime in on the Carnival activity since the DJs and the music trucks use a lot of AV technology and manufacturers may have a market here to distribute to the region from. Boost trade, travel, hell... even R&D

If only...

Conventions are a large revenue generator.

CES has nothing to do with Las Vegas. Las Vegas simply has the hotel space, floor space and attractions that grew out of legalized casino gambling.

Unless Carnival can create a group of year-round facilities, venues and attractions, conventions will typically go somewhere else.

[Dohplaydat]

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions

Lol

Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

Won't it make more sense to keep those tens of thousands of citizens safe from infection next Carnival so you can have them there to spend money for many many future carnivals?

But Duane I'm advocating against carnival next year though. Just saying it is a revenue generating event.

[eliteauto]

convention type events like CES have their future up in the air going forward as well

[adnj]

convention type events like CES have their future up in the air going forward as well

Billions in convention cancellations has already transpired. Tourism is expected to take a 25% hit worldwide.

The IMF expects the cacading effects of social distancing to result in a 5.3% reduction in Caribbean GDP. While all Carnival activity represents less than 1% of T&T GDP.

[Chimera]

People gonna be afraid to go canton fair next year for sure. And that fair had 30 billion usd in deals signed in 2019.

All over the world things gonna be screwed.

convention type events like CES have their future up in the air going forward as well

[Dohplaydat]

convention type events like CES have their future up in the air going forward as well

Billions in convention cancellations has already transpired. Tourism is expected to take a 25% hit worldwide.

The IMF expects the cacading effects of social distancing to result in a 5.3% reduction in Caribbean GDP. While all Carnival activity represents less than 1% of T&T GDP.

25% is hit is optimistic, with the economic downturn, 14-day quarantines that might be imposed and just the uncertainty around this virus. I think 2020 tourism revenues might nose dive to more than 50%.


I cannot understand how many of you don't see the benefits and uniqueness of Carnival. Soca is a great fun genre of music that is growing in popularity all over the world.

Carnival as an entertainment product is excellent, and for many, it truly is the greatest experience on earth. Do you have any idea how much employment this creates? And the best part is that the monies earned are not for the 1%, it is one of the few things the small man, entrepreneur and small business owner benefit.

It is one of the few things we have to be proud of in this country that we the people have created.

Additionally, oil and gas revenues being are projected to be low for at least a year or more, some are speculating that change in behavior combined with more awareness of our planet's health, will push the drive toward renewables (sparked by these same oil companies who are diversifying) even more. Meaning, peak oil and a spike in prices may never come.

That means the dip in oil and gas can already hit our GPD by 10% or more, if all else remained the same. But our private sector has been hit bad so we can see a reduction in GPD of more than 15%.

Without Carnival 2021, that is expected to but hit even worse

An economic contraction of that volume is disastrous.

It is horrible that a lot of people will be on the breadline, not just by canceling our Carnival, but all Caribbean Carnivals for this year.

[Dave]

A stitch in time saves nine.

There is no denying that carnival does have its economic place in our calendar.
However given what we are dealing with and the conspiracy theories surrounding we had it this carnival when it was relatively young in it's infectious stages on this side of the world, one can only think what would have should have and could have happened if certiris paribus.

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions

Lol

Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

Won't it make more sense to keep those tens of thousands of citizens safe from infection next Carnival so you can have them there to spend money for many many future carnivals?

[Cantmis]

Two wasted work days.

[shake d livin wake d dead]

Two wasted work days.

More like 5

[De Dragon]

A stitch in time saves nine.

There is no denying that carnival does have its economic place in our calendar.
However given what we are dealing with and the conspiracy theories surrounding we had it this carnival when it was relatively young in it's infectious stages on this side of the world, one can only think what would have should have and could have happened if certiris paribus.

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions

Lol

Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

Won't it make more sense to keep those tens of thousands of citizens safe from infection next Carnival so you can have them there to spend money for many many future carnivals?

You mean when bandleaders, calypso tents and everyone an their nennen go to the GORTT demanding their subvention to keep "de cultyah" alive?

[pugboy]

what is glaring is when economy went downhill and govt stopped massive funding
certain promoters just buss it like that
those promoters own several red building in st james now

[Dave]

Lol Notice I didn't say benefit.

I am happy for the road side vendors at least.

A stitch in time saves nine.

There is no denying that carnival does have its economic place in our calendar.
However given what we are dealing with and the conspiracy theories surrounding we had it this carnival when it was relatively young in it's infectious stages on this side of the world, one can only think what would have should have and could have happened if certiris paribus.

I can categorically say absolutely no. The Forex never makes it way to Trinidad and Tobago in the sums that they maybe proporting to imply.

them carnival band and ting does inject back the USD they make from foreign masqueraders and party goers ?
they all throw same them parties in other countries too and ear forex.
asking for a friend

boy you asking hard questions
i always thought the same but was shame to ask them questions

Lol

Prove it, I'm very involved in the carnival industry and can tell you that you have no idea how much wealth and prosperity carnival creates for tens of thousands of citizens.

Won't it make more sense to keep those tens of thousands of citizens safe from infection next Carnival so you can have them there to spend money for many many future carnivals?

You mean when bandleaders, calypso tents and everyone an their nennen go to the GORTT demanding their subvention to keep "de cultyah" alive?

[adnj]

convention type events like CES have their future up in the air going forward as well

Billions in convention cancellations has already transpired. Tourism is expected to take a 25% hit worldwide.

The IMF expects the cacading effects of social distancing to result in a 5.3% reduction in Caribbean GDP. While all Carnival activity represents less than 1% of T&T GDP.

I think 2020 tourism revenues might nose dive to more than 50%.

Soca is a great fun genre of music that is growing in popularity all over the world.

Do you have any idea how much employment this creates? And the best part is that the monies earned are not for the 1%

It is one of the few things we have to be proud of in this country that we the people have created.

That means the dip in oil and gas can already hit our GPD by 10% or more,

But our private sector has been hit bad so we can see a reduction in GPD of more than 15%.

It is horrible that a lot of people will be on the breadline, not just by canceling our Carnival, but all Caribbean Carnivals for this year.

With the exception of the roots of soca being Trinidadian (amongst others) and soca music gaining in popularity (likely because music streaming is increasing nearly every regional music genre's popularity; every paragraph that you have written contains an unsubstantiated claim.

[Dizzy28]

convention type events like CES have their future up in the air going forward as well

Billions in convention cancellations has already transpired. Tourism is expected to take a 25% hit worldwide.

The IMF expects the cacading effects of social distancing to result in a 5.3% reduction in Caribbean GDP. While all Carnival activity represents less than 1% of T&T GDP.

25% is hit is optimistic, with the economic downturn, 14-day quarantines that might be imposed and just the uncertainty around this virus. I think 2020 tourism revenues might nose dive to more than 50%.


I cannot understand how many of you don't see the benefits and uniqueness of Carnival. Soca is a great fun genre of music that is growing in popularity all over the world.

Carnival as an entertainment product is excellent, and for many, it truly is the greatest experience on earth. Do you have any idea how much employment this creates? And the best part is that the monies earned are not for the 1%, it is one of the few things the small man, entrepreneur and small business owner benefit.

It is one of the few things we have to be proud of in this country that we the people have created.

Additionally, oil and gas revenues being are projected to be low for at least a year or more, some are speculating that change in behavior combined with more awareness of our planet's health, will push the drive toward renewables (sparked by these same oil companies who are diversifying) even more. Meaning, peak oil and a spike in prices may never come.

That means the dip in oil and gas can already hit our GPD by 10% or more, if all else remained the same. But our private sector has been hit bad so we can see a reduction in GPD of more than 15%.

Without Carnival 2021, that is expected to but hit even worse

An economic contraction of that volume is disastrous.

It is horrible that a lot of people will be on the breadline, not just by canceling our Carnival, but all Caribbean Carnivals for this year.

We are a small island state heavily dependent on imports for our survival. GDP generation is not our biggest problem - earning sufficient forex through exports is.

Our economy's GDP generation is skewed to the non oil and gas sector as it has been for the longest while. However our the services sectors which all exceed the energy cumulatively needs US$ that comes from the energy sector. Them fancy foods we like to eat (bought from supermarkets and in restaurants), them cars we like to buy and drive, all them online purchases we like to make.

Carnival is not bad generally. Every country needs a cultural identity. However it certainly is not going to be our panacea for economic growth as people like to make it out to be and it definitely needs a new business structure placing less burden on the tax payers many of whom take no part in it (or limited part through a fete or two).

My first job was with the construction company that built and demolished North Stand and Savannah Stage every single year that I worked there. Whenever we met with NCC and MOWT (who had oversight of those infrastructure) and invoices started rolling out I would always think what a waste of money. The steel for those projects were stored at the old Grell Taurel Building now Bhagwansingh Piarco and MOWT would have paid rent for years and years as well.

[Dohplaydat]

We are a small island state heavily dependent on imports for our survival. GDP generation is not our biggest problem - earning sufficient forex through exports is.

Our economy's GDP generation is skewed to the non oil and gas sector as it has been for the longest while. However our the services sectors which all exceed the energy cumulatively needs US$ that comes from the energy sector. Them fancy foods we like to eat (bought from supermarkets and in restaurants), them cars we like to buy and drive, all them online purchases we like to make.

Carnival is not bad generally. Every country needs a cultural identity. However it certainly is not going to be our panacea for economic growth as people like to make it out to be and it definitely needs a new business structure placing less burden on the tax payers many of whom take no part in it (or limited part through a fete or two).

My first job was with the construction company that built and demolished North Stand and Savannah Stage every single year that I worked there. Whenever we met with NCC and MOWT (who had oversight of those infrastructure) and invoices started rolling out I would always think what a waste of money. The steel for those projects were stored at the old Grell Taurel Building now Bhagwansingh Piarco and MOWT would have paid rent for years and years as well.

Stick to one point. Wastage on pointless projects are a constant part of Trini corruption and stupidity.

Facts, Carnival is responsible for at least $100M USD in Forex income. That is nothing to scoff at.

Our local companies are working in Carnivals all over the world. Tribe has its hands involved in almost every major international carnival and man others are getting involved as well.

Last year a chutney artist friend who's song wasn't even that popular locally told me he was making an estimated $30,000US for the year from that one shitty song. Soca and chutney are probably raking in 100M TT in Forex yearly.

Lastly, we are not generally not a productive workforce with or without carnival.

Finally, you going down the blaming fancy food imports line. Why blame the population for that? Instead find things we could be producing locally that can be a cheaper alternative and also reduce our Forex spend. That has nothing to do with Carnival.

[Dizzy28]

We are a small island state heavily dependent on imports for our survival. GDP generation is not our biggest problem - earning sufficient forex through exports is.

Our economy's GDP generation is skewed to the non oil and gas sector as it has been for the longest while. However our the services sectors which all exceed the energy cumulatively needs US$ that comes from the energy sector. Them fancy foods we like to eat (bought from supermarkets and in restaurants), them cars we like to buy and drive, all them online purchases we like to make.

Carnival is not bad generally. Every country needs a cultural identity. However it certainly is not going to be our panacea for economic growth as people like to make it out to be and it definitely needs a new business structure placing less burden on the tax payers many of whom take no part in it (or limited part through a fete or two).

My first job was with the construction company that built and demolished North Stand and Savannah Stage every single year that I worked there. Whenever we met with NCC and MOWT (who had oversight of those infrastructure) and invoices started rolling out I would always think what a waste of money. The steel for those projects were stored at the old Grell Taurel Building now Bhagwansingh Piarco and MOWT would have paid rent for years and years as well.

Stick to one point. Wastage on pointless projects are a constant part of Trini corruption and stupidity.

Facts, Carnival is responsible for at least $100M USD in Forex income. That is nothing to scoff at.

Our local companies are working in Carnivals all over the world. Tribe has its hands involved in almost every major international carnival and man others are getting involved as well.

Last year a chutney artist friend who's song wasn't even that popular locally told me he was making an estimated $30,000US for the year from that one shitty song. Soca and chutney are probably raking in 100M TT in Forex yearly.

Lastly, we are not generally not a productive workforce with or without carnival.

Finally, you going down the blaming fancy food imports line. Why blame the population for that? Instead find things we could be producing locally that can be a cheaper alternative and also reduce our Forex spend. That has nothing to do with Carnival.

You keep quoting yourself on these supposed figures.
You have the source of these figures or are they are fickle as the multiple names you use here Daran??

[Dohplaydat]

The Copyright industry alone in T&T generates well over $2.5Billion TT, around $1B TT alone is associated with carnival music, mas, steelpan etc.

Carnival visitors spend a minimum of $300M TT during carnival week itself, this doesn't include costume payments made prior to this.

Travel and Tourism on the whole account for ~$20B TT in revenues, with ~20% of that from carnival alone.

[pugboy]

$2.5billion you say

how come impsbert never mention that in a budget speech ?

[Dizzy28]

The Copyright industry alone in T&T generates well over $2.5Billion TT, around $1B TT alone is associated with carnival music, mas, steelpan etc.

Carnival visitors spend a minimum of $300M TT during carnival week itself, this doesn't include costume payments made prior to this.

Travel and Tourism on the whole account for ~$20B TT in revenues, with ~20% of that from carnival alone.

You have quoted no sources once again.
The below is the non energy component of GDP for 2017 (I really not in the mood to find more recent data).
This info comes from National Income Stats of the CSO.

You tourism stats are BS.
All the others are clearly made up.

[Dohplaydat]

The Copyright industry alone in T&T generates well over $2.5Billion TT, around $1B TT alone is associated with carnival music, mas, steelpan etc.

Carnival visitors spend a minimum of $300M TT during carnival week itself, this doesn't include costume payments made prior to this.

Travel and Tourism on the whole account for ~$20B TT in revenues, with ~20% of that from carnival alone.

You have quoted no sources once again.
The below is the non energy component of GDP for 2017 (I really not in the mood to find more recent data).
This info comes from National Income Stats of the CSO.

You tourism stats are BS.
All the others are clearly made up.

Capture.JPG

Also, the $500M I arrived at for carnival visitor spending was simply assuming $350M was spent during carnival week + $50M from the lead up of the season + $100M in carnival costume downpayments by masqueraders made from Aug to Nov (40K visitors playing mas * $2500 average costume downpayment = 100M)

[Dizzy28]

^ Source for my data

CENTRAL STATISTICAL OFFICE; NATIONAL ECONOMIC ACCOUNTS DIVISION
GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, 2015-2016 AT MARKET PRICES, (CURRENT PRICES) (Millions of dollars)
http://cso.gov.tt/statistics/?Subject=National-Income


Hoss......you freaking put a report with 2005 as the most recent year

[Dohplaydat]

^ Source

CENTRAL STATISTICAL OFFICE; NATIONAL ECONOMIC ACCOUNTS DIVISION
GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, 2015-2016 AT MARKET PRICES, (CURRENT PRICES) (Millions of dollars)
http://cso.gov.tt/statistics/?Subject=National-Income

You do realize that is aggregated based on industry, and each industry can be broken down further to track earnings right?

[Dizzy28]

^ Source

CENTRAL STATISTICAL OFFICE; NATIONAL ECONOMIC ACCOUNTS DIVISION
GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, 2015-2016 AT MARKET PRICES, (CURRENT PRICES) (Millions of dollars)
http://cso.gov.tt/statistics/?Subject=National-Income

You do realize that is aggregated based on industry, and each industry can be broken down further to track earnings right?

It is.....but I am expected to believe 20b can be found from line items there to come up to the Tourism figure??

[Dohplaydat]

^ Source

CENTRAL STATISTICAL OFFICE; NATIONAL ECONOMIC ACCOUNTS DIVISION
GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, 2015-2016 AT MARKET PRICES, (CURRENT PRICES) (Millions of dollars)
http://cso.gov.tt/statistics/?Subject=National-Income

You do realize that is aggregated based on industry, and each industry can be broken down further to track earnings right?

It is.....but I am expected to believe 20b can be found from line items there to come up to the Tourism figure??

Read this - https://www.onecaribbean.org/content/fi ... rinTob.pdf

[Dizzy28]

^ Source

CENTRAL STATISTICAL OFFICE; NATIONAL ECONOMIC ACCOUNTS DIVISION
GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT OF TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO, 2015-2016 AT MARKET PRICES, (CURRENT PRICES) (Millions of dollars)
http://cso.gov.tt/statistics/?Subject=National-Income

You do realize that is aggregated based on industry, and each industry can be broken down further to track earnings right?

It is.....but I am expected to believe 20b can be found from line items there to come up to the Tourism figure??

Read this - https://www.onecaribbean.org/content/fi ... rinTob.pdf

I am not reading that. It was published 18 July 2005. That has no relevance 15 years later.

And all the talk around GDP etc. The below table is where the rubber meets the road. It is where Govnt actually earns its revenues. GDP is a measure of economic activity not revenues.

Where in those lines items does Carnival and Tourism add its billions?