Food prices in Trinidad and Tobago

[Habit7]

[Redress10]

There you go again posting videos of high food prices in places such as India as though this supports your notion that high food prices isn't unique to Trinidad etc. What you keep forgetting to also post is the economic realities of things such as supply chain interruptions etc that produces these short term increases due to lack of demand.

What you still haven't explain is why our valuable foreign exchange is being used to import things such as lettuce, avocadoes and tomatoes from America when those things can be easily produce here and in the region. When you can explain why the government still allows those foods to enter the port then we can have a serious adult conversation about food security.

[Habit7]

There you go again posting videos of high food prices in places such as India as though this supports your notion that high food prices isn't unique to Trinidad etc. What you keep forgetting to also post is the economic realities of things such as supply chain interruptions etc that produces these short term increases due to lack of demand.

What you still haven't explain is why our valuable foreign exchange is being used to import things such as lettuce, avocadoes and tomatoes from America when those things can be easily produce here and in the region. When you can explain why the government still allows those foods to enter the port then we can have a serious adult conversation about food security.

And what you fail to understand is economies of scale. Places that can grow these items in large amounts with cheap labour will always beat us back. You can grow bananas right next to the market and charge $6/lb. While a farm in the interior of Ecuador will grow those same bananas, transport them to the coast, ship them through the Panama Canal, clear Customs in T&T, transport them to the market and still be $6/lb.

You have too much of a simplistic understanding of these things.

[Redress10]

Oh so now you bring economies of scale to talk about food security. Bro, stop whilst you are ahead please. You not making any sense whatsoever. Food security is ensuring that the population never goes hungry. This is about ensuring the conditions beyond your control never affects your population so if the countries that suffer farmine and natural disasters are affected then they will affect you as you import from them. You never ever ever rely on others when it comes to your food security. You secure domestic production.

You talking about growing bananas and importing at a cheaper price point isn't even part of discussion. Plus scale has to do with size and space. Trinidad could sustain mega farms and Guyana could as well. The problem is simplisitic political leaders who continue to rely on the developed world for everything whilst continuously destroying out local capabilities. What we are witnessing is decades of regression as a country and society so for the very basics of our existence we need to rely on imports.

Meanwhile ppl like you come on a forum and speak about "economies of scale" and bananas when food security is basically national security. Ever hear the saying that "A nation that cannot feeds itself is a nation in crisis"? You need to stop making excuses and face reality to the crisis that Trinidad is facing.

You cannot rely on food imports bro. That isn't sustainable nor safe so you have to come with solutions closer to home. If you cannot then what you are saying is that this country/region isn't capable of sustaining the lives of its population. That will cause another crisis decades from now with ppl force to migrate or face starvation

[Habit7]

You are not making sense. The issue is not that ppl are going hungry because of lack of availability, ppl are going hungry because of price increases. Your solution is to grow more locally and import from Guyana. But to grow locally sometimes means more expensive food because we cannot compete with large farms which lower prices through scale. And importing from Guyana as opposed to elsewhere is still imported food.

The reason why 1.4M ppl can live on such a small island is by importing food. Locally produced food can supplement that but the prices of local food will always trail international prices. We live in a global village, there is no way to insulate T&T from shocks in world food prices. You believe in a fairy tale.

And Guyana where you see as our salvation, catching dey tail too

[dogg]

Grocery stores raping their customers! its on the wall............ read the signs and shop elsewhere.

Should groceries sell their items at a loss?

Where can one shop where ALL the prices are cheaper?

Or should I waste the entire day driving from store to store to save 0.5% on average.

Food inflation is a global issue.

[DMan7]

Time to tighten yuh belt!

[redmanjp]

Grocery stores raping their customers! its on the wall............ read the signs and shop elsewhere.

Should groceries sell their items at a loss?

Where can one shop where ALL the prices are cheaper?

Or should I waste the entire day driving from store to store to save 0.5% on average.

Food inflation is a global issue.

i wish we had a site that collates prices of the same items in almost real time and tells you where has the cheapest price- even better where has the cheapest total order if you input a list of items

[Habit7]

i wish we had a site that collates prices of the same items in almost real time and tells you where has the cheapest price- even better where has the cheapest total order if you input a list of items

Free idea for an app.

Otherwise, there are these monthly spreadsheets https://tradeind.gov.tt/supermarket-pri ... ugust2021/

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

[bamfo_dennis]

will Max's burger cart prices be affect by this increase? Will the Kiss truck start delivering to his 3 minimarts or will he have to continue buying 3rd party from Massy to stock the parlour?

[Blaze d Chalice]

But I could have sworn that a real grimy looking pest already put the blame on the "wicked east indians" for rising food prices in Trinidad, Guyana, Jamaica, and worldwide?

These is not old videos?

[Redress10]

You are not making sense. The issue is not that ppl are going hungry because of lack of availability, ppl are going hungry because of price increases. Your solution is to grow more locally and import from Guyana. But to grow locally sometimes means more expensive food because we cannot compete with large farms which lower prices through scale. And importing from Guyana as opposed to elsewhere is still imported food.

The reason why 1.4M ppl can live on such a small island is by importing food. Locally produced food can supplement that but the prices of local food will always trail international prices. We live in a global village, there is no way to insulate T&T from shocks in world food prices. You believe in a fairy tale.

And Guyana where you see as our salvation, catching dey tail too

Habit...jeez you making me want to pull my hair out but I am glad that we are having this discussion but it is terrifying that you have these views on agriculture. Even more terrifying if you are in a powerful position directing policy etc.

How can you say that people are going hungry in Trinidad/caribbean not due to availability but due to high food prices? Like seriously? Did you really just type this? You even stopped and read it over before submitting and still hit the enter button?

The reason ppl in Trinidad and the caribbean has always gone hungry is because of inability to supply themselves with enough food due to decreased agricultural knowledge. That is the basic fact. Whilst the developed world use progressive agricultural practices we have always shied away from the use of technology etc in our methods. There are dairy farms in TT who still extracting milk from cows and goats via their hands. The developed world use machine for that decades now.

You still talking about growing food in order to "compete" but let me break it down for you like this. All that lettuce,tomato and spiniach etc that can be grown here and in neighbouring countries tou ban them as imports. That has a couple of effects. One is you immediately save forex from leaving the country. Another is you provide jobs for local farmers due to the sustained demand. This has a trickle down effect of alllowing farmers to purchase homes, get mortgages send their children to school etc. That causes the money to stay within a country and wealth to be built etc. Another could be increase in manufacturing as foods can be bottled and canned and turn into long shelf products that can last for months and years. This decrease wastage and spoilage.

When growing food the only thing you worry about is supply inputs. The costs of fertiliser and labour etc. So why are you so concerned about global commodity prices when your first priority is to increase production to decrease forex leakages? We not talking export as yet if ever. The reality is this country is entirely dependent on foreign food imports and it is historic in nature. The country was never forced to produce food to sustain itself.

The colonists imported what they needed and the black and brown ppl tended to fend for themselves. The colonists focused mainly on cocoa, sugar cane ans coffee for exports. They didn't give a sh*t about food security for the country. What we witnessing today is the legacy of that practice that started centuries ago.

You keep harping on about Guyana. Do you understand how trade blocs work? Have you ever been to Guyana? You know the price of market goods are sometimes 1/10th the price of goods in Trinidad by comparison? Howcome a bottle of wine made in Italy is sold in France, Spain and Germany for the same price because they are members of the EU. They benefit from open borders and lack of dutiees etc. That is the sort of thing Caricom suppose to be moving towards. It is only logical. Something produced in Guyana could never be "imported" as Guyana is a member of Caricom. There isn't suppose to be duties etcon those goods. Those goods are suppose to move freely all the way up to Jamaica if they can.

Jeez

[Redman]

Of course the size of our farms makes automation a real challenge.

Cost and availability of labor is also a big problem.

To compete with massive plantations in places where there is the land space to capture the economies of scale.

Undeniably if the local provision of food was an attractive investment...some of the predatory one percent allyuh always whining about, would have jumped in with the monopoly created by the govament.

There is always a reason experienced players in the market haven't jumped in.

Theoreticians always know what shoulda coulda and woulda happen, while not paying attention to the fact that gaps in markets exist for REAL reasons.
If there was money tobe made...some body would have done it....given the Zero % real interest rate environment we have enjoyed since 2001

[Redress10]

So according to trini logic the solution is to keep importing food indefinitely? With what money exactly? The world moving away from oil/gas at a brisk pace meanwhile you in the caribbean can't even feed yourself? How are you going to afford your other imports such as technology and fuel?

What exactly does TT intend to produce in the neae future in order to survive? Why do we have to wait on the 1% to invest in agriculture? Why the government isn't doing more to secure food for the country? Why the government always quick to be tight fisted with certain sectors of the economy such as oil and gas whilst leaving others to do what they want?

Priorities.

[Habit7]

You are just expressing shock at what I say and not offering an ounce of proof to disprove it.

When we buy food within Caricom, we use USD because we don't have a common currency. And if you want to make it clearer, USD is forex.

I cannot attest to the price of wine in the EU. But if you don't know, Italy, France and Germany all use the same currency. Plus they literally all share borders.

I keep telling you, you have a simplistic, idealistic understanding of these things. They are a lot more complicated than you think.

[Redress10]

All of that to basically say nothing. Italy, France and Germany basically fought wars against each other for centuries but know to come together in order to make trade deals but a couple of unimportant and irrelevant islands adrift in the ocean take pride in operating in silos. Then people like you coming in these forums to talk a pack of arse as though food production is nuclear science.

I done talk about this. Ya head hard.

[88sins]

Local farmers get ZERO help from the state. None, nil nein, nada, nyet, non. That's the first thing people hadda wrap their head around. You feel is joke?
I know farmers on private land, ketchin they rass for water. Put a pump and pull water from a drain, wasa coming to seize that. Your crop get wash out in a flood, they not even lending you money to buy back seed stock. Preadial larceny in yuh tail so bad yuh can't even sleep, yuh hadda patrol yuh fields half the night, and when men come with gun to rob you the best you could do is make noise under cover of darkness and hope that the thieves not armed and get panicked and run, otherwise you may not survive an encounter with them, because all bs talk aside, even as a farmer is REAL KETCH ASS to get a FUL for a shotgun, contrary to the horseshit plenty people does say about farmers getting through easy.
And Redress, if you feel is only "inputs" farmers hadda worry about, yuh just waste a feeling. Drought, disease, praedial larceny, a lack of equipment and equipment failures & r&m costs, feeding himself and his family until the crop come in if it come on at all, those are things farmers hadda worry about, and those are NOT even the inputs.

We hadda start encouraging and promoting local product. If we not doing that, we screwed in d long run.

[Redress10]

ISRAEL

Agriculture in Israel is a highly developed industry. Israel is a major exporter of fresh produce and a world-leader in agricultural technologies despite the fact that the geography of the country is not naturally conducive to agriculture. More than half of the land area is desert, and the climate and lack of water resources do not favor farming. Only 20% of the land area is naturally arable.[1] In 2008 agriculture represented 2.5% of total GDP and 3.6% of exports.[2] While farmworkers made up only 3.7% of the work force, Israel produced 95% of its own food requirements, supplementing this with imports of grain, oilseeds, meat, coffee, cocoa and sugar.

They wuk they put down to make themselves sustainable.

The development of modern agriculture was closely tied to the Zionist movement and Jewish immigration to Palestine in the late nineteenth century.[4] Jews who immigrated purchased land that was mostly semi-arid, although much had been rendered untillable by deforestation, soil erosion and neglect.[2] They set about clearing rocky fields, constructing terraces, draining swampland, reforesting, counteracting soil erosion, and washing salty land.[2] Since independence in 1948, the total area under cultivation has increased from 165,000 to 433,000 hectares (408,000 to 1,070,000 acres), while the number of agricultural communities has increased from 400 to 725. Agricultural production has expanded 16 times, three times more than population growth.[2]

Fruits and Vegetables

Fruit and vegetables grown include citrus, avocados, kiwifruit, guavas and mangoes, grapes from orchards located on the Mediterranean coastal plain.[2] Tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers and zucchini are grown commonly throughout the country; melons are grown during winter months in the valleys.[2] Subtropical areas in the country produce bananas and dates, while in the northern hills apples, pears and cherries are grown.[2] Furthermore, grape vineyards are found across the country, as the country's wine industry has developed to become a world-player.[2]

Animal Produce

Local cows produce the highest amounts of milk per animal in the world, with an average of 10,208 kilograms (around 10,000 liters) of dairy in 2009, according to data published in 2011 by the Israel Central Bureau of Statistics, outperforming cows in the US (9,331 kg (20,571 lb) per cow), Japan (7,497), the European Union (6,139) and Australia (5,601).[9]

A total of 1,304 million liters of milk was produced by Israeli cows in 2010.[9]

All of Israel's milk consumption originates from dairy farms within the country with most herds consisting largely of Israel-Holsteins, a high-yielding, disease-resistant breed. Furthermore, sheep milk is exported. In terms of poultry, which makes up two thirds of meat consumption, 85% originate from moshavim.[2]


Government Regulation

Farm surpluses have been almost eradicated in the country, with farms having production and water quotas for each crop, which have stabilised prices.[2] Production quotas apply to milk, eggs, poultry and potatoes.[2] Israel's government also encourages a reduction in agricultural costs by trying to encourage specialised farming, and halting of production of crops for which no sufficiently profitable markets exist.[2] The Ministry of Agriculture oversees the country's agricultural sector, including maintenance of standards of plant and animal health, agricultural planning, and research and marketing.[2]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Israel

[zoom rader]

Local farmers get ZERO help from the state. None, nil nein, nada, nyet, non. That's the first thing people hadda wrap their head around. You feel is joke?
I know farmers on private land, ketchin they rass for water. Put a pump and pull water from a drain, wasa coming to seize that. Your crop get wash out in a flood, they not even lending you money to buy back seed stock. Preadial larceny in yuh tail so bad yuh can't even sleep, yuh hadda patrol yuh fields half the night, and when men come with gun to rob you the best you could do is make noise under cover of darkness and hope that the thieves not armed and get panicked and run, otherwise you may not survive an encounter with them, because all bs talk aside, even as a farmer is REAL KETCH ASS to get a FUL for a shotgun, contrary to the horseshit plenty people does say about farmers getting through easy.
And Redress, if you feel is only "inputs" farmers hadda worry about, yuh just waste a feeling. Drought, disease, praedial larceny, a lack of equipment and equipment failures & r&m costs, feeding himself and his family until the crop come in if it come on at all, those are things farmers hadda worry about, and those are NOT even the inputs.

We hadda start encouraging and promoting local product. If we not doing that, we screwed in d long run.

If you have a deed stamped from King George V, wasa or government cannot claim rights to water or mineral rights on your land. But not much of those deeds was issued. Go over and read your deed carefully.

Wasa tried that 5hit with me charging me for my own pond water and my lawyers sorted them out.

[Redress10]

Local farmers get ZERO help from the state. None, nil nein, nada, nyet, non. That's the first thing people hadda wrap their head around. You feel is joke?
I know farmers on private land, ketchin they rass for water. Put a pump and pull water from a drain, wasa coming to seize that. Your crop get wash out in a flood, they not even lending you money to buy back seed stock. Preadial larceny in yuh tail so bad yuh can't even sleep, yuh hadda patrol yuh fields half the night, and when men come with gun to rob you the best you could do is make noise under cover of darkness and hope that the thieves not armed and get panicked and run, otherwise you may not survive an encounter with them, because all bs talk aside, even as a farmer is REAL KETCH ASS to get a FUL for a shotgun, contrary to the horseshit plenty people does say about farmers getting through easy.
And Redress, if you feel is only "inputs" farmers hadda worry about, yuh just waste a feeling. Drought, disease, praedial larceny, a lack of equipment and equipment failures & r&m costs, feeding himself and his family until the crop come in if it come on at all, those are things farmers hadda worry about, and those are NOT even the inputs.

We hadda start encouraging and promoting local product. If we not doing that, we screwed in d long run.

All of that is the result of farming not getting the respect and priority it deserves being an oil producing country so the belief is that you can simply import food. But food security is a national security issue. This is what men like Habit etc not getting. This is about securing your nation's bounty in the event of any international crisis you are not reliant on external factors in order to put food on the table. That is the basics.


All the stress that farmers getting is based on this low priority placed on farming. A man get up in a vapse and decide to create a berry farm of all things in Tobago. After years of changing trini taste in fruit and decreasing the demand for local fruits this man come with the genius idea of growing berries. He never cared to invest in growing the local staples that could sustain life on this little islands but berries is what he wanna grow. And ppl on this forum call that "visionary".

Bro, all of that is part of the plan. First they fustrate local farming so the farmers either sell out cheaply or they disencourage the next generation of farmers. Next the continue to import foodat astronomical prices meaning that you keep losing money day by day as your struggle to eat. Meanwhile these ppl keep getting poorer so they cant afford things such as property but 1% buying up property over the country and turning prime agricultural land into shopping malls.

Meanwhile the gov't does nothing whatsoever and ppl such as Habit coming to say the government powerless.

[matr1x]

Buh let we study who breaking curfew

[88sins]

I said it before, and I will say it again, and again, and again.
A nation that cannot at the very least feed itself is destined to fail.
America, Canada, all the individual countries within the European Union, Australia, Japan, China, you all feel they came to be considered 1st world countries by encouraging nonsense & depending on buying food to feed their people?

These nations realized very early on, they have to be able to at least feed their people, and also develop sustainable products for international export to earn the money we need to be able to buy the few things they don't/can't produce.

This is the only country you will ever hear people say "we cyah eat d money, so we hadda buy food".

[Redress10]

I said it before, and I will say it again, and again, and again.
A nation that cannot at the very least feed itself is destined to fail.
America, Canada, all the individual countries within the European Union, Australia, Japan, China, you all feel they came to be considered 1st world countries by encouraging nonsense & depending on buying food to feed their people?

These nations realized very early on, they have to be able to at least feed their people, and also develop sustainable products for international export to earn the money we need to be able to buy the few things they don't/can't produce.

This is the only country you will ever hear people say "we cyah eat d money, so we hadda buy food".

Israel knew from day one that it couldn't rely on food imports as they are surrounded by enemies. Any attack on their food would simply cripple their country. An army marches on its stomach is a saying. But Trinidad has no army so maybe that is why we don't have that philosophy.

It have men on this forum sounding like they boasting that Trinidad doesn't grow its own food. Is almost like they have pride about this. This is scary. Men like Habit probably making government policy and we don't know. This is the mindset of the people running the country. They could never do nothing but always quick to use tax break to buy benz.

A bunch of qualifed dunces and their supporters.

[88sins]

It not scary, it saddening.
Yuh kno when it go get scary?
When them same people have a room full of money and it have nothing to buy with said money.
For some people, hard wuk is a mortal sin for them. Is dem go feel it first

[Redress10]

It already start. Have a man on the forum trying to buy a house in the USA and need usd. All how we trying to figure out how to transfer that value.

The money already worthless outside of TT so I don't know why people think the economy is a jokey matter. Ppl really feel continued food imports not gonna weaken the currency etc. They delusional.

All this country needs to create a crisis is places like America having a period of sustained panic buying over some event. That then cause the US govt to stop all exports. That perfect storm and all of a sudden shelves in Trinidad become empty and scarce. But men in here saying that food security is the international community responsibility.

We are clueless on this island.

[88sins]

Aye, was all this "we" thing you flingin around all willy-nilly?

[Redress10]

Aye, was all this "we" thing you flingin around all willy-nilly?

I find "them" does sound too detached. Make me feel like I shouldn't even be speaking about these things. But ya right it aint no "we".

[Redman]

Now it's a conspiracy
Smh.

If the local agricultural market was feasible at local prices people would do it.

There are real reasons that it hasn't happened.

But it boils down to it not being worth it to the people who could do it.

It's either it cost less to produce or we get higher prices.

Subsidies or price controls.

[zoom rader]

Now it's a conspiracy
Smh.

If the local agricultural market was feasible at local prices people would do it.

There are real reasons that it hasn't happened.

But it boils down to it not being worth it to the people who could do it.

It's either it cost less to produce or we get higher prices.

Subsidies or price controls.

You taking out of your arse again, the red government is simply not into agricultural. There is no push but only lip service on agri.