The Religion Discussion

[AdamB]

Re-incarnation is the in thing now, just remember when yuh dead and come back in the next life, KASEY TELL YUH SO!!!Now you can put in more of ur ur quotations in here now. Justify ur way of life with documentation of ur way of life.

#YOLO

EH?? AdamB wrote no such thing! LOL

WRT Reincarnation...supposedly many or all humans who exist now have been reincarnated. Does anyone recall having lived a previous life?

ignorance is not bliss nuh, is fuel for misinformation
rather than condemn, why not ask how reincarnation works?
The same way you invite us to understand your religion, rather than criticize

I asked questions. Will a Hindu please answer and explain reincarnation?

[stev]

If reincarnation is a fact, how does it work?

http://www.jswami.info/reincarnation_how

According to the Bhagavad-gita, whatever we think of at the time of death determines what sort of body we'll take next. And of course what we think of at death depends largely on what we thought about and what we did during our life. The process is subtle, because the mind is subtle.

The Bhagavad-gita explains that the mind, at death, carries with it subtle conceptions, just as the air carries aromas. And these subtle thoughts are what shape the next body. They determine what sort of eyes one will have, what nose, ears, and tongue, what sort of hands and legs and other bodily features. These all assemble around the mind.

The Vedic writings tell us, also, that our karma— we deserve for our past acts— not only from what we have done in the present life but from past lives as well. My present birth, then, is an outcome of what I have thought and what I have done in the past.

Are human beings always reborn as human beings? According to the Vedic literature, no. Some are, but others are promoted to still higher forms, forms beyond our present experience, and others are degraded to lower species.

Sometimes, for example, we see a person living just like a pig—, sloppy, gluttonous. We may think he even looks like a pig. According to the Vedic teachings, such a person, already practically a pig in consciousness, may get the body of a pig in his next life.

The Vedic writings say that there are 8,400,000 species, most of them lower than human. In the lower species, the living beings always act precisely as nature dictates. They have no choice. A horse always acts like a horse, a tree like a tree. You never see a tiger stealing oranges.

And so the living beings in lower species always advance to species higher. Slowly, one step at a time, they are promoted by nature from one species to the next.

But human life affords us greater choice. We can live in harmony with nature's laws, or we can violate them. And accordingly we may be promoted or degraded. The human life is therefore meant for spiritual realization and for gaining freedom from the cycle of birth and death. No other species offers us this opportunity.

[RBphoto]

I must have been a jackarse in my past life... old habits die hard.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Buddhism
Buddhism is being recognized as the fastest growing religion in Western societies both in terms of new converts and more so in terms of friends of Buddhism, who seek to study and practice various aspects of Buddhism. As in the United States, Buddhism is ranked among the fastest growing religions in many Western European countries.
The Australian Bureau of Statistics through statistical analysis held Buddhism to be the fastest growing spiritual tradition/religion in Australia in terms of percentage gain with a growth of 79.1% for the period 1996 to 2001 (200,000→358,000). However, because Australia is statistically small, no inferences can be drawn from that for the whole world.
Buddhism is the fastest-growing religion in England's jails, with the number of followers rising eightfold over the past decade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_ ... g_religion

[MG Man]

but but............de imam say otherwise
duane you issa liar

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ fastest growing is not largest - a religion growing from 1 follower to 2 is 100% growth!

In 1990, 935 million people were Muslims and this figure had risen to around 1.2 billion by the year 2000, meaning that around this time one in five people were followers of Islam. The number has risen to 1.6 billion in 2010. the Guinness Book of Records states that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world in 2005.

2.2 billion people in the world are Christian
Evangelical Christianity is the fastest growing religion in Brazil and France.
In Vietnam, Protestants in Vietnam may have grown 600% over the last decade.

1 billion people are Hindu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

A broad figure estimates the number of atheists and agnostics on Earth at 1.1 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Demographics

Proportion of atheists and agnostics around the world.


Atheists make up 85% of the population in Sweden, 80% in Denmark, 72% in Norway, and 60% in Finland. Between 64% and 65% of Japanese are atheists, agnostics, or do not believe in a god. 34% of the population of New Zealand claim they follow no religion. 21% in Australia.

[sensiman]

Buddhists gonna bud...

[d spike]

A honey-bee lives for about 6 weeks. In that short space of time, that bee has to assist in raising young, defending the hive, finding food...
...does it REALLY make sense for bees to waste time arguing about the amount of arms/legs that the beekeeper has? DOES IT MATTER????

While I enjoy a theological discussion, this thread has ceased being such a long time ago...
We are here for a time.
Some of us believe (and such a term implies that we have NO proof of such a thing) that there is a divine being that holds us in existence.
This belief has helped form our society and its values.
(Now, the visual focus of our society has moved away from such values, becoming materialistic... but that is another story.)
Why does it matter to some that their version of this belief system is right AND ALL OTHERS ARE WRONG?
After all, what you believe is yours to believe...For me to tell you your religious conviction is wrong is like me telling you that fishcherry ice-cream should be your favourite ice-cream flavour (because it tastes so good! it's my favourite! and you're a fool for not even attempting to try it... and if you have tasted it before and didn't like it, well, it's not my fault you don't have an educated palate... perhaps you should read some literature on it telling you how good it is for you - written by the guy who sells the stuff...)

Why does it matter to some that their version of this belief system is right AND ALL OTHERS ARE WRONG?
A sense of insecurity?
If all others are wrong, that PROVES that yours is the right one? (No, it doesn't.)

...and, as has been said numerous times before, quoting from religious writings that were written by a believer in the same religion, to support your religious point of view DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!!!!!

Good grief.

That's why I said "TO YOU BE YOUR RELIGION AND TO ME MINE".

A pity you did not notice the highlighted material...

[MG Man]

*still waiting on my fishcherry ice cream*

[d spike]

Some of us believe (and such a term implies that we have NO proof of such a thing) that there is a divine being that holds us in existence.

Hey Spikey: Let's just say, for arguments sake, that the lotto is $10 million. You go to sleep and while sleeping you dream a "being with wings" comes to you and gives you the numbers for the lotto. You play them and win! What does it prove other than the fact that you won the lotto?

Does it prove that these beings exist? Or was it your sub-conscious that gave you the numbers?

^^
One is just not linked to the other, yet humans perceive that link. Lotto numbers are totally random probabilities....

Very good point, maj. tom... but I see where bluefete is coming from.
Bluefete, just because you have an intangible ("subconscious"?) experience, that is not "proof". "Proof" is evidence that can be shown or displayed for others to peruse/recognize/identify. A decision made as a result of an experience is NOT proof of the experience itself, neither is an occurrence that is foretold in an experience proof of the experience.

[d spike]

*still waiting on my fishcherry ice cream*

Wait until full moon... then I will tell you where to go to dig it up - this will vastly improve the flavour.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Some of us believe (and such a term implies that we have NO proof of such a thing) that there is a divine being that holds us in existence.

Hey Spikey: Let's just say, for arguments sake, that the lotto is $10 million. You go to sleep and while sleeping you dream a "being with wings" comes to you and gives you the numbers for the lotto. You play them and win! What does it prove other than the fact that you won the lotto?

Does it prove that these beings exist? Or was it your sub-conscious that gave you the numbers?

^^
One is just not linked to the other, yet humans perceive that link. Lotto numbers are totally random probabilities....

Very good point, maj. tom... but I see where bluefete is coming from.
Bluefete, just because you have an intangible ("subconscious"?) experience, that is not "proof". "Proof" is evidence that can be shown or displayed for others to peruse/recognize/identify. A decision made as a result of an experience is NOT proof of the experience itself, neither is an occurrence that is foretold in an experience proof of the experience.

not only that, "a being with wings" is something that you are conditioned to see helping you and bringing good news in your dream.

if all your life you believed that unicorns made wishes come true then you would more than likely dream a unicorn giving you the lotto numbers.

as far as winning, you had no more of a chance than anyone else - lucky you!

make sure you know what is true from what is perceived

[Dizzy28]

^ fastest growing is not largest - a religion growing from 1 follower to 2 is 100% growth!

In 1990, 935 million people were Muslims and this figure had risen to around 1.2 billion by the year 2000, meaning that around this time one in five people were followers of Islam. The number has risen to 1.6 billion in 2010. the Guinness Book of Records states that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world in 2005.

2.2 billion people in the world are Christian
Evangelical Christianity is the fastest growing religion in Brazil and France.
In Vietnam, Protestants in Vietnam may have grown 600% over the last decade.

1 billion people are Hindu

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups

A broad figure estimates the number of atheists and agnostics on Earth at 1.1 billion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#Demographics

Proportion of atheists and agnostics around the world.


Atheists make up 85% of the population in Sweden, 80% in Denmark, 72% in Norway, and 60% in Finland. Between 64% and 65% of Japanese are atheists, agnostics, or do not believe in a god. 34% of the population of New Zealand claim they follow no religion. 21% in Australia.

God really showed those heathens....made their countries models of stability and economic prosperity. Oh wait I forgot they will burn in hell.

[RBphoto]

Who does god worship? Does he get purpouse in life from being a contented sentient being? Why can't we all be like that and skip religion? Does he see himself in all of his creations, or view them as wind up toys gided by artificial intellegence which we mistake or real intellgence? Does god have a god or is he an atheist? Can we truly believe that if there is life on any other planet in the universe.... They will be either hindu, muslim christian or whatever? Would god reveal himself only to our speck of dust?

[nareshseep]

[stev]

where is God? What does the different religions say about the location of God. If he is in heaven....where is heaven.....is it another planet / dimension?

[maj. tom]

^^

AdamB will be along to answer that with a made up story created by a man who was so high that he thought he was on a flying unicorn. But the real tragedy is the people who believe it...

[AdamB]

^^

AdamB will be along to answer that with a made up story created by a man who was so high that he thought he was on a flying unicorn. But the real tragedy is the people who believe it...

For some ONLY SEEING IS BELIEVING but there are others who BELIEVE IN THE UNSEEN.

So you can't scientifically prove something (test hypothesis / observe recordable data / blah blah blah) and to you because of that it doesn't exist.

Can you prove that you love your wife or your kid/s? Can you prove (or has it been proven) with scientific experiments that mercy / compassion, patience, forbearance, kindness, benevolence exists?

Stev, do you believe in the existence of GOD or a supernatural being?

[stev]

yes i do. i am not an atheist.

i believe in a God, one who i pray to. that does not mean i have doubts in another religion.

my mother is a hindu and my father is a muslim....other relatives are christians.

i celebrate Divali, Eid, Christmas.

i am interested in knowing what a defined religion has to say about certain question i ask in this thread.

for example: what does your religion say about the location of God?

[megadoc1]

stev, try google!

[maj. tom]

^^

AdamB will be along to answer that with a made up story created by a man who was so high that he thought he was on a flying unicorn. But the real tragedy is the people who believe it...

For some ONLY SEEING IS BELIEVING but there are others who BELIEVE IN THE UNSEEN.

So you can't scientifically prove something (test hypothesis / observe recordable data / blah blah blah) and to you because of that it doesn't exist.

Can you prove that you love your wife or your kid/s? Can you prove (or has it been proven) with scientific experiments that mercy / compassion, patience, forbearance, kindness, benevolence exists?

Stev, do you believe in the existence of GOD or a supernatural being?

You cannot prove something does not exist, only show that something exists from credible observations and hypotheses that eventually hold water to become a theory. If we have now found a theory (collectively Science) to fit all the things we could not explain in the past and therefore attributed it to god, and still have not found any evidence at all for the existence of god, then as far as we are concerned god has nothing to do with us and there is no need to bring it into our coherent solid foundation of understanding how our universe works.


And the 2nd point, yes we can prove all those things scientifically. There is an entire branch of Science called PSYCHOLOGY, PSYCHIATRY and NEUROSCIENCE and the study of animal behaviour which is quite scientific and credible to a remarkably large portion of the human population.

[stev]

stev, try google!

i did and came across some puzzling info.

i wanna hear it from the people in here....now i wonder if the preachers in here can actually answer my question. lol

[megadoc1]

start from about page 70 then, cause it really have nothing more to add in here and even some of the pages that follows are a repeat of what was posted before so why are you asking to go over this again?

[AdamB]

stev, try google!

i did and came across some puzzling info.

i wanna hear it from the people in here....now i wonder if the preachers in here can actually answer my question. lol

Stev, I am sure i had posted on this before.

If you believe in GOD, then if where HE is located has to be answered, then it would have to come from HIM. Agreed? So if you are looking for answers from religions, then you should look for sources that have the answer from GOD, sources that would be credible in terms of reporting what GOD said.

If you believe that GOD created everything that exists, then before HE created these things...Where did HE exist? Was there a place for HIM to be? Does there need to be such a place?

When HE created the entire Creation THROUGH THE OBSERVABLE "BIG BANG / SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN THEORY", where did HE put the Creation? Did HE put it within HIMSELF or did HE then dwell inside of HIS Creation? if HE did was it entirely or partially / all the time or sometimes only?

Before I proceed further, I will allow the "preachers" of other religions to give their views from their religion, preferably not from their personal views that could not be attributed to their religion.

[stev]

So if you are looking for answers from religions, then you should look for sources that have the answer from GOD, sources that would be credible in terms of reporting what GOD said.

and what do u suggest is a credible source? doh tell mih google it....all i wud find is translation of the holy books version 1,000,000.0


oh....and megadoc....i have been following the thread for a long time now (since page one before it was renamed) i also did a quick search within the thread to see if my question was asked....but i didnt find anything...probably i missed something.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

then you should look for sources that have the answer from GOD, sources that would be credible in terms of reporting what GOD said.

what makes such a source credible?

what makes one source credible and another not credible?

faith alone?

[Kasey]

^^

AdamB will be along to answer that with a made up story created by a man who was so high that he thought he was on a flying unicorn. But the real tragedy is the people who believe it...

For some ONLY SEEING IS BELIEVING but there are others who BELIEVE IN THE UNSEEN. What was the point of this statement? Don't we already know this?

So you can't scientifically prove something (test hypothesis / observe recordable data / blah blah blah) and to you because of that it doesn't exist.

Can you prove that you love your wife or your kid/s? yes, if they die, I will cry Can you prove (or has it been proven) with scientific experiments that mercy / compassion, patience, forbearance, kindness, benevolence exists?yes, through Psycology, and Psychaitry

Stev, do you believe in the existence of GOD or a supernatural being?what was the point of this response again?

[sMASH]

in islam, we are taught that god is separate from from his creation. the world that we know, physical, tangible, the universe as we conceive it, is below the 7 heavens or firmaments. each being successively and significantly larger than the other, like a stone being compared to a desert. after the 7th heaven is supposed to be the foot stool of god, then after that is the throne, and then god is above the throne. the throne to the footstool to the 7th heaven are also proportioned the same way.
this proportion may not be an actual ratio, but put forward to demonstrate the immense magnitudes in terms we can conceive.

all other 'strata' of creation may be thought of as different dimensions, as realities we cannot perceive as we are accustomed.

this is my understanding or grasp of the info i have gotten from my indulgences. my views may differ from those of others, as well as other religions may teach different things and i do not challenge those. i am just posting what i believe.

[AdamB]

To add, The Islamic View: HE (ALMIGHTY GOD / ALLAH) is above everything (creation) and separate from it, in whatever way you can imagine - literally IN HIS ESSENCE and figuratively BY HIS ATTRIBUTES. HE is NOT "HERE, THERE AND EVERYWHERE."

Let's go back to when GOD existed alone (not lonely). Where was HE? There was no Earth or Heavens or anything else?

Now when HE created the Creation (everything that exists other than HIM), where did HE put the Creation? In HIMSELF or separate from HIMSELF? The Islamic view is the latter (separate), partly because it is not befitting of HIS Majesty that HE be "mixed" in dirty places, sewers and the like.

~~~

This is a debate between the Ahlus Sunnah Wal Jama’ah (who believe that Allah is above everything) and the Maturidis/Asharis who do not believe this. It also deals with their false claims about Ahlus Sunnah.

Debate about where is Allah

This is a bit technical but inshallah all of us will understand by Allah’s guidance.

Azhari Shaikh: You (the Salafis) have put Allah in a place
Shaikh Al Albani: May Allah be raised above this! This is a great lie .

The Shaikh then said: Then a research between myself and him came about.

I (Shaikh Al Albani) said to him: Oh teacher! is place (Makaan) something present or absent?
Azhari Shaikh: No, it is something present.

I said: And is what is present limited or unlimited?

Azhari Shaikh: Limited
I said: Ok let us research now: we are on the earth, what is above us?

Azhari Shaikh: The first heaven.

I said: Until the seventh?

Azhari Shaikh: Until the 7th

I said: And above the seventh?

Azhari Shaikh: The throne.

I said: And above the throne what is there?

Azhari Shaikh: Above the throne are the Karuubeeyuun!

I said: And what are there Karuubeeyuun?

Azhari Shaikh: These are angels.

I said: Do you know a verse of the Qur’an that says that there are angels called Karuubeeyuun?

Azhari Shaikh: Nope

I said: Is there a Hadeeth from the Messenger (Salallahu alaihi wa sallam) that says this?

He said: Nope

I said: Then where did you get this belief from?

He said: O teacher! We leant this in Azhar

I said: O teacher! didn’t you learn in Azhar that belief is taken (as they claim) only from an evidence that is sure and affirmed and sure in evidence, they build their belief upon this, that beliefs are not taken from an authentic Hadeeth except if it is Mutawatir (has ten narrators or above in every part of the chain)?

He said: Yes

I said: Not a verse, not a Hadeeth Mutawatir, not even a Hadeeth Aahad!! So where did you’ll get this belief from? In any case this is not the point, say that there are angels above the throne called Karabeeyuun: above these angels what is there?

He said: That is all, all is ended.

I said: Is there any place there?

He said: No

I said: We say that Allah is above the creation, therefore he is not in a place, because place (Makaan) is something created and limited, therefore he is not in a place, therefore when we describe Allah as he described himself why do you explain this belief and this statement which is contrary to what it is?

Firstly: Your understanding is that the creation is limited, therefore why do you say: Allah is in a place according to these Mujassimah (those who make Allah similar to his creation) who are called Salaf As Salih, then you explain it contrary to the verses? Why don’t you submit your beliefs according to the evidences that are Mutawatir? Even some of the Imams of Hadeeth like Haafiz Adh Dhahabi wrote a small book which is specific to this which is called: Al ‘Uluuw Lil “alee Al ghaffar.

End…

Notes: Allah is described as having ‘Uluuw Al Mutlaq. Meaning that he is above everything. However this doesn’t mean that he is in a place. Because of the fact that Makaan or place is something created and limited and Allah is above his creation and above any limitations.

However many claim that the Salafis say that Allah is in a place which is false.

False claims

They say that the Salafis (Ahlus Sunnah) but Allah in a direction

They say: You put Allah in a direction.

We say to them: So you mean by direction something that is present and created? Or do you mean by it what is outside of creation?

If they mean by this something that is present other than Allah then it is something created and Allah is above his creation and separate from it.. but if what is meant by direction as something that is absent, meaning that it is above the creation then there is nothing except Allah alone that is above the creation.

[AdamB]

The Transcendence of GOD above the Creation.

The proof of the ‘aql (intellect), has two angles to it:

1. The ‘uluw / Transcendence is an attribute of perfection and therefore being as such necessitates that it is an affirmed attribute of Allaah/GOD because Allaah/GOD is qualified with the attributes of perfection from every angle.

2. For the sake of argument, if we say that, “Allaah/GOD is either above the world or under it or on its right or left,” then which of these descriptions denote perfection? The answer is, “Allaah/GOD is above the world,” because if HE is “under it” then He would be less perfect than the created! And if He is in the same place as the created, then Allaah would be equal to creation in perfection. Thus it is necessitated that Allaah is above everything.