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Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

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bluefete
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Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby bluefete » June 15th, 2017, 5:47 pm

Is CAL going to confirm that they are getting rid of those pesky ATR-72's?

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... five-q400s

"12JUN2017

Bombardier (BBA, Montréal Trudeau) has announced it has concluded a firm order for five Dash 8-400 turboprops with an undisclosed customer.

Based on the list price of the Q400 aircraft, the order is valued at approximately USD162 million or USD32.4 million for one."


7 years ago, the Arthur Lok Jack led board of CAL paid USD20 million for one ATR-72.

Image


Former CAL board close to deal ATR planes cheaper

Published on Nov 28, 2010, 10:54 pm AST

A deal was near closure with Toulouse, France-based ATR for Caribbean Airlines to buy the 68-seat aircraft after extensive negotiations between the Arthur Lok Jack-led board of directors and several aircraft manufacturers, sources close to the transaction confirmed yesterday.

The ATR deal was cheaper, at around US$20 million per 72-600 aircraft, than any other purchase from competitors, including manufacturers like international company Bombardier, the Express was told.

Lok Jack and other CAL directors received several presentations and proposals from ATR and other manufacturers and finally agreed on acquisition with ATR for five planes.

These aircraft were intended as replacements for Caribbean Airlines' ageing Dash-8 planes, which are used on the Tobago airbridge service. Sources said the ATR aircraft could also have been used on the Port of Spain and Caracas Caribbean Airlines service, but were not intended for Air Jamaica's airbridge between Kingston and Montego Bay.

The directors were said to have conducted several analyses of the aircraft and found that the ATR planes were "cheaper and had no safety issues" that were different from other carriers, a source close to the former board said yesterday.

At the time of the general election, the former directors were looking at using the ATRs as a first step toward making a bid for regional carrier LIAT.

The board had decided to replace Air Jamaica's jet fleet of Airbus aircraft after acquiring routes operated by the Jamaican carrier, including destinations in the United States, Canada, the Caribbean and the Bahamas.

However, after the directors resigned after the May 24 general election, the airline's former chief executive officer, Capt Ian Brunton, pursued the deal with ATR without a board in place for several months. A decision was made to buy nine aircraft from ATR, some of which would have been used on the Air Jamaica airbridge.

This was ratified by Cabinet in September.

Another source familiar with the deal said when the new board of directors led by businessman George Nicholas was appointed, the new board was said to have been against the ATR deal and wanted to consider another manufacturer. No decision was made with regard to ATR, a source said.

Contacted yesterday, director and Tobago hotelier, Allan Clovis, referred enquiries to chairman Nicholas or Works and Transport Minister Jack Warner.

Warner left for Zurich, Switzerland yesterday on World Cup bid round duties. He is to meet with British Prime Minister David Cameron, former US president Bill Clinton and Russia Prime Minister Vladimir Putin during his trip.

Former Caribbean Airlines chairman Arthur Lok Jack could not be immediately reached yesterday.
Last edited by bluefete on June 15th, 2017, 6:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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src1983
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Re: Did CAL Just Buy TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby src1983 » June 15th, 2017, 5:49 pm

Article from 2010

bluefete
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Re: Did CAL Just Buy TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby bluefete » June 15th, 2017, 5:52 pm

src1983 wrote:Article from 2010


The article is from 2010 but the news item is from Bombardier - June 2017!!!!!!!!

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby janfar » June 15th, 2017, 6:04 pm

How did you come to that conclusion that T&T bought those planes bluefete???

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby bluefete » June 15th, 2017, 6:12 pm

janfar wrote:How did you come to that conclusion that T&T bought those planes bluefete???


Maybe I should put lease/buy.

Let's just wait and see.

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby CL9_EURO » June 16th, 2017, 3:14 am

IF this is true, why did we go from old Dash-8's to brand new ATR's and again back to New Dash 8's again..

Isn't the ATR more fuel efficient ? Smaller Engine but lighter airframe?

I don't know the exact issue with the current ATR's but If they pull them from Intl flights and dedicate all to Tobago with proper maintenance wouldn't that be cheaper? maybe even better alternative for us? and thus fix the air bridge issue?

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby hong kong phooey » June 16th, 2017, 3:16 am

the ATR is a problem plane there is always an issue with it
the dash 8 was more reliable
if they did buy the dash 8 good job.

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby greggle71 » June 17th, 2017, 7:18 am

Because flights to and from Tobago only peak at about 8,000 feet for 20 minutes and turnaround in 30 minutes on the ground the ATRs can't cope with the rigor as the engines don't have the time to cool either at higher altitudes while in flight or on the ground. Breakdowns are frequent. Not sure if any of these factors were considered when sourcing these aircraft but apparently the Dash 8s are better at handling the Tobago schedule. The ATRs aren't totally garbage, they can be used for flights that are a bit longer over 1 hour with an Altitude of over 10,000 feet the cooler air will allow the engines to operate more optimally in those conditions.

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby drchaos » July 15th, 2017, 9:58 am

The only advantages of the ATR is lower fuel burn and cheaper upfront cost. The DASH is better on speed, range, number of seats, amount of luggage.

But it seems there was some serious corruption here.
They overpaid and bought instead of leasing those ATR's and waived the rites to take legal action against ATR in case of any problems. 10 incidents in 5 yeats on those ATR's and the manufacturer is not taking responsibility. Corrupt multinationals and corrupt third world politicians and officials make such a wonderful pairing.

Glad the pilots finally standing up and refusing to fly the aircraft.

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby cornfused » July 15th, 2017, 10:23 am

Question to ask in the Monday night forum.

I will start with three.

Why was the option taken to purchase rather than lease, wet lease as seems to be the normal procedure for soliciting aircraft in these parts?

Why was the decision take to use ATR vs the proven Dash 8, was a technical analysis done?

What was the purchase price versus leasing price?

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby drchaos » July 15th, 2017, 4:39 pm

Wet lease is not really the norm ... Wet lease mainly happens when airlines are in a bind and they cannot fulfill their services. Wet lease is expensive. Dry lease is where you want to be if leasing is what you are considering.

Jack Warner and George Nicholas are the ones who hijacked the consideration and moved it into the ATR direction. There were many pilots, senior CAL employees and people who were involved in the air bridge were screaming from the roof about the big mistake we were about to make.

Its hard to find out about pruchase price and lease price unless you are the involved in the negotiations. There are aircraft list prices but these can be heavily discounted.

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby Allergic2BunnyEars » July 15th, 2017, 9:06 pm

Warner mc

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Re: Did CAL Just Buy/Lease TT$1.1 Billion in New Planes?

Postby drchaos » July 16th, 2017, 8:01 pm

Boat and air-bridge presssah.

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