Super unleaded and my 4AGE 20v

[dmitc]

So what are the drawbacks and potential issues of running my ST on Super Unleaded.

[Zeriam]

i hear a man say none but f dat jed i paying for the right thing and just rolling slow.

[Terran]

I ran super at one time on my 20V. I experienced better mileage, and slightly more output, but the engine eventually pinged. And, of course, I saved 10% at the pumps (at least at that time).

Let's discuss the drawbacks of it (maturely), because I am sure that ALL, if not MOST of us, are considering our alternatives. Let's NOT get started on lifestyle changes or driving economically - that engine was NOT designed with economical driving in mind.

[Anton]

I used super in both my 20v and my gze with no problems. Once your knock sensor in good working order it will retard your ignition till it stops pinging. I had used premium before but found i was getting MUCH better mileage with the super.

[smokey1275]

dittto

[theblitz]

wat about a half-half tank mix? no harm in doin that I guess but then again you might as well full with super an dun

[reddo_tuner]

wat about a half-half tank mix? no harm in doin that I guess but then again you might as well full with super an dun

People in my office are talking about this, half super, half premium and a shot of redline.

[smokey1275]

the mixing of gas to get the required octane is a chemical calculation. there is no way if you take a 92 octane fuel and mix it with 95 octane fuel in a ratio , will each time yeild you an avergae of 94-98 octane , even with adding an additive. there are some gas making receipies online for cooking up 97-100 octane , but the components are dangerous and cancerous.

[Strauss]

I used super in both my 20v and my gze with no problems. Once your knock sensor in good working order it will retard your ignition till it stops pinging. I had used premium before but found i was getting MUCH better mileage with the super.

Never worked well for me. 4agze used to knock alot.

Now I know the 1st and 2nd gen gze can get away with it. Or maybe my 3gen being fed dirty gas at the super pump which has nothing to do with RON.

[mikeae91corolla]

i using super in my 20v and it does ping alot if u driveing hard if you taking your time it works fine but with alot less power when i run premiumn it runs like a beast
4.00 is alot more now but i would still use it bcuz the engine was made to run on high octane fuel

[Terran]

i using super in my 20v and it does ping alot if u driveing hard if you taking your time it works fine but with alot less power when i run premiumn it runs like a beast4.00 is alot more now but i would still use it bcuz the engine was made to run on high octane fuel

I am almost surprised reading this kinda stuff.

Why are there such performance difference between our engines? Not just yours and mine, but in general?

[dmitc]

Terran, i'm with you, ran super once a couple months back (no premium at the time) and although i did notice better economy i did not notice any loss in performance. but that said i can not remember running it hard on that thank of gas.
I am greatly concerned about knock at full throttle though. i would fill up with super next week and run it hard and i'll let you guys know what is the outcome.

[Anton]

I used super in both my 20v and my gze with no problems. Once your knock sensor in good working order it will retard your ignition till it stops pinging. I had used premium before but found i was getting MUCH better mileage with the super.

Never worked well for me. 4agze used to knock alot.

Now I know the 1st and 2nd gen gze can get away with it. Or maybe my 3gen being fed dirty gas at the super pump which has nothing to do with RON.

My GZE was the second gen AFM DLI with 8.0 :1 compression. The stock ecu was mapped for 92 ron. The later generations were mapped for 98 to 100 ron. I think i remember reading somewhere that there was supposed to be a switch on or in the ecu to use the mapping for lower octane.

[droppa]

a $40 increase in my weekly fill up not so bad, even tho i initially used super and then switched to premium, i never really saw no big difference on the 4E-FTE..

i under the impression that only higher compression engines need to use Premium

4E-FTE 8.2:1,
ST is 10.5:1
BT is 11:1 and
GZE is 8.0:1

so can we that super can be used in the 4E and the GZE and the 20V should use the premium.

[Strauss]

I used super in both my 20v and my gze with no problems. Once your knock sensor in good working order it will retard your ignition till it stops pinging. I had used premium before but found i was getting MUCH better mileage with the super.

Never worked well for me. 4agze used to knock alot.

Now I know the 1st and 2nd gen gze can get away with it. Or maybe my 3gen being fed dirty gas at the super pump which has nothing to do with RON.

My GZE was the second gen AFM DLI with 8.0 :1 compression. The stock ecu was mapped for 92 ron. The later generations were mapped for 98 to 100 ron. I think i remember reading somewhere that there was supposed to be a switch on or in the ecu to use the mapping for lower octane.

I need to find out more on this, because yes, I also remember clearly that I need to run 98ron/100ron.

[josh]

have a black top 20v
i don't know how these guys can say that they are getting better mileage and slight better performance with the super gas over the premium
i have tried it and it is completely the other way around
super gas WILL give you less mileage and performance than PREMIUM
i just retarded my distributor a little so it won't ping with the super and i'm good to go because i am not putting forty something dollars more in the the governments pockets each time i fill...so SUPER for me now
a little less power but my 20v still running hard

[smokey1275]

ditto !!!!!!

[Terran]

have a black top 20v
i don't know how these guys can say that they are getting better mileage and slight better performance with the super gas over the premium
i have tried it and it is completely the other way around
super gas WILL give you less mileage and performance than PREMIUM
i just retarded my distributor a little so it won't ping with the super and i'm good to go because i am not putting forty something dollars more in the the governments pockets each time i fill...so SUPER for me now
a little less power but my 20v still running hard

The same way I don't know how we are generally getting varied results.

I started running super once more since the night of the budget, and already experiencing a 15% improvement in fuel economy. Add to that the 10% saved at the pump now since I paid $3.00 per litre for premium, now paying $2.70 per litre. Very slight increase in power output, and notably LESS emission/exhaust fumes. I'm not making this up.

As experienced before, the engine pinged. I suppose it's only a matter of time before I hear Neal & Massy All Stars Steel Orchestra playing from my engine rather than through my speakers.

I've also added Redline gas treatment, which I have been running even on premium for several months now.

What are the differences between our motors??

I am running a BT 20V automatic in an AE91 Corolla. The engine is relatively stock. A cone filter and iridium plugs. My tach swings over 8,000 rpm in power mode and it pulls SWEET!

What is your setup? There must be some underlying difference between my motor and yours, or someone else's to explain these varying results.

[smokey1275]

I've run both super and premium , with cocktails . Universally the super fuel though it has a lower octane rating than premium and should ideally burn faster , yielded more me about 15-20% more mileage over the premium. its a money making thing by them people in np who blend the gas , imagine the economics you have 1000 people filling up on 4.00 gas , five times as quickly than people on the lower grade fuel. the profits are all across the board. To the average joe , its normal pyschology to accept that the higher octane fuel is better because the qoute - unqutoe experts say its better. Though this is not the case as many cars these days run on 10:1 compression and can safely run within the 92 octane rating. the difference between a 4age and a 5A besides compression is ignition maps laden within the ecu > high performance Na cars have more agghressive timing plugged into them for more progressive burn rate of the fuel . since most cars in high na tune rely on cylinder pressure , up goes the cylinder pressure = higher cr's to take advantage of the thermal efficiency brought about by hihger cr's , higher cr's really on fuels that will not knock due to altered cylinder temps, thus the higher octane fuels to cover the rate at which the fuel would self ignite would be reduced so more progressive power would be made.

[Terran]

...and with my old 2E engine in my Tercel (1.3 12V SOHC automatic transmission, carburetted), premium burned a lot faster than super. Power loss/gain differences were negligible. At least, back in those days, super was leaded; premium was unleaded.

[tte]

Are you guys maddd. the 20v is supposed to be running on 100 octane so even with premium u running on the knock sensor. the ecu can only retard the ignition so much. it will only take one reel hot day and one to many heavy foot and u will be in the bamboo lookin for a new engine. please im pissed with the hike in gas too but its still cheeper than an engine, and further more my research has shown what is shown as 95 for premium is actually an average and its realy 92 making super realy 89, so unless u never pass half throttle at 4000 rpm please dont run super in yah 20v or yah 2zz or any of the newer engines that supposed to run on 100 octane. bless.

[smokey1275]

Are you guys maddd. the 20v is supposed to be running on 100 octane so even with premium u running on the knock sensor. the ecu can only retard the ignition so much. it will only take one reel hot day and one to many heavy foot and u will be in the bamboo lookin for a new engine. please im pissed with the hike in gas too but its still cheeper than an engine, and further more my research has shown what is shown as 95 for premium is actually an average and its realy 92 making super realy 89, so unless u never pass half throttle at 4000 rpm please dont run super in yah 20v or yah 2zz or any of the newer engines that supposed to run on 100 octane. bless.

dawg , i hear you there , but realistically speaking , there are many st 's and bt's running on the lower than japansese average > the performance we are seeing is just the mapped average based on feedback from as your correctly stated , al al knock sensor.In america there are guys running on worse gas than us and still doing good enough .Remember the states run 87-91 some places 87-89 . On some international forums i've not seen many engines destroyed , due to the knock sensor's job of saving the engine from detonation.

[dmitc]

Ok i just could not do it, i reached in the gas station saw the pump reading $4.oo a litre and i said "premiums full up".
i was going with the super but tte is right, premiums is already lower than the recommended octane level. as it is super will only see my ST on the last week of the month when i aint get pay yet.

[droppa]

i filled up on super this morning, $110, when premium was $3. that fill up would usually cost $125. now its like $165. so ah save $55 in gas..........

car working good in the traffic and peppy as normal......

but when ah reach on the high way and cross 3500rpm om 5th gear ah start tuh hear ah frigging orchestra in the engine , ac on of off, once ah try to accelerate, is noise........so ah will try some red line fuel additive and retard a bit......

[dmitc]

but when ah reach on the high way and cross 3500rpm

since i filled up i have not crossed 3000rpm i cyar afford to run hard anymore

[droppa]

dais it yuh sacrificing yuh performance for yuh gas bill.....

speed = $$$$

i dont expect full performance, but close to normal would suffice

[Hook]

Are you guys maddd. the 20v is supposed to be running on 100 octane so even with premium u running on the knock sensor. the ecu can only retard the ignition so much. it will only take one reel hot day and one to many heavy foot and u will be in the bamboo lookin for a new engine. please im pissed with the hike in gas too but its still cheeper than an engine, and further more my research has shown what is shown as 95 for premium is actually an average and its realy 92 making super realy 89, so unless u never pass half throttle at 4000 rpm please dont run super in yah 20v or yah 2zz or any of the newer engines that supposed to run on 100 octane. bless.

this is what I know!

I still ping on premium and I'm not even at max ignition advance, I'm on 10DBTDC...car moves like a regular 1.6L econobox on super while pinging like somebody playin shack-shack with 10 tins ah bomb spray under the hood...in short, WASTE OF TIME!

I'm looking into water injection as an option...high initial set-up cost, but it pays for itself in a couple years when u only have to fork out $2.70/L at the pump and still get your required 100RON once u meter it properly...sounds good in theory, but I've yet to really look into costs and do a comparison...either way, a switch from premium to super is like switching from yak piss to horse piss...it's still piss

[dmitc]

well i doh mind paying $4/ltr if they offering 98octane or higher gas as premium but the 95 business is real stress

[Strauss]

Are you guys maddd. the 20v is supposed to be running on 100 octane so even with premium u running on the knock sensor. the ecu can only retard the ignition so much. it will only take one reel hot day and one to many heavy foot and u will be in the bamboo lookin for a new engine. please im pissed with the hike in gas too but its still cheeper than an engine, and further more my research has shown what is shown as 95 for premium is actually an average and its realy 92 making super realy 89, so unless u never pass half throttle at 4000 rpm please dont run super in yah 20v or yah 2zz or any of the newer engines that supposed to run on 100 octane. bless.

dawg , i hear you there , but realistically speaking , there are many st 's and bt's running on the lower than japansese average > the performance we are seeing is just the mapped average based on feedback from as your correctly stated , al al knock sensor.In america there are guys running on worse gas than us and still doing good enough .Remember the states run 87-91 some places 87-89 . On some international forums i've not seen many engines destroyed , due to the knock sensor's job of saving the engine from detonation.

You comparing US and JDM.

Wonder why US engine specs always lower than JDM? Sure environmental pollution has most to do with it but...

[droppa]

i throw in a $25 bottle of 0-60 octane booster and most of the band players gone home.......