Effect of upgrading oil cooler on CVT - installed with pics!

[venum]

CVT owners\drivers - Lancers, Primeras, Civics, Wingroads, Almeras and whatever else comes with a CVT

what is the effect of upgrading the CVT trannie oil cooler with a better, more efficient one?

Please share your experiences\thoughts

CVT's by nature generate a lot of heat, and too much heat damages\fries them - a common prob with CVT's in T&T coupled with some bad drivers.

I am thinking that an upgraded oil cooler will serve to prolong CVT trannie life as well as enhance performance, especially in sport mode driving since the trannie fluid will be cooler

anyone ever done this? please share info

[wagonrunner]

if we think there is an optimum operating temperature.............wouldn't too efficient a cooler prevent that from being reached?

[X_Factor]

wagonrunner, thats food for thought---u makin venum do even more research now..

[venum]

if we think there is an optimum operating temperature.............wouldn't too efficient a cooler prevent that from being reached?

well we are talking bout an upgraded oil cooler to better cool the trannie fluid when the transmission is under stress from the engine and heating up faster than when under less load

not really a supercooling device to cause the trannie to work below the peak operating temp at high and low loads.

but lemme go do some research on this

[wagonrunner]

venum,
i hear yuh, and i not talking freeze it. i'm thinking more along d lines of removing a vehicles thermostat, car takes longer to warm up to normal temp.

[TheBoostLord]

^^^ but then when it warms up it will constantly be running at the regular temperature. how much time would you save by removing a thermostat? a couple minutes?

[wagonrunner]

KiD,
we straying from topic, but amm no. eninge never get there. coolant isnt retained long enough to allow that.

[TheBoostLord]

cool well anyway i waiting on some info from venum cus i dus kina push my cvt a lil hard. i already had to change then tranny but i never changed the fluid before and did alot of 'gearing down'.

[Chiney]

the oil dont have to reach ah certain temp and not drop below so that its viscosity ( spell wrong? ) can be at its best??

[X_Factor]

check out the basic sedan CVT model compared with the higher end sport model and other manufactures of cars and see if the oil cooler is the same capacity..that should give an idea as to how efficient it is?

though the size of the engine might be different...but u could still use as a benchmark

like mitsu vs nissan vs toyota (same size engine if possible)
then compare like the basic vs more sport models

so if the toyota one is larger than the mitsu one for the same 1600 engine then u could try the upgrade

[ziig]

for any tranny cooler is better. a normal trans gets all it harmful heat from the torque converter during vortex......a cvt does not produce as much heat but a cooler will reduce any harmful heat produced. in trinidad where it is very hot any help is good.
As for removign any temp sensor...i would not advise that at all, since the tranny looks at all these kind of sensors to determine shift point and removing such a sensor will result in default mode, which sucks because you will haev to reset the code

[Dave]

tranny fluid is a protector, no need for heat to activate it to work
at the same time u r not gonna put a macko size cooler if u driving around town but a simple upgrade would be efficient
hence why they sell them with a power band rating

[krack korn]

I can't speak for the mitsu's or honda's or audi's.

In the nissan primera the smallest engine placed on the RE0F06A(V) CVT was the QG18DD it didn't come with an extra oil cooler. All the M6 models both SR20VE and DE came with the same external oil cooler additionally to the radiator one. I am not sure about the SR20DE ones that were non M6. It would appear that the cooler was only used where tranny could be abused.

The brain of this particular tranny must see the tranny temp at or above 50 deg C before it gives the all clear to the engine ECU to 'get on'. For instance VVL won't engage unless tranny is within operating range spec.

Below 50 deg and above 104 deg C it causes the ECU to reduce performance. Above 104 TCM goes ito safe mode as well.

So as long as you use the biggest cooler without dropping below the required temp for your tranny, you good to go. You can experiment with the cooler being before of after the stock radiator cooler, either configuration will give different results.

The best option is to use a mid size sort of cooler, put a fan(s) on it and use a temperature switch to bring on the fan, it will work in traffic and keep tranny temps down only when needed. If you can keep tranny oil temp at say 60 deg,I would say that's good.

I used 4 computer power supply fans with the integrated temp speed control so they regulate themselves. Its the fans with the little blue thermistor sticking out from the motor in the air flow path. With this setup you must pull air across the cooler tru the fans or the temp sensors won't work.

Placement of the cooler is important, big cooler getting no air is useless unless you have a fan running full time.

The big brother to this tranny the RE0F09A, has an integrated thermostat to regulate tranny temps in the cooling circuit. This is the emphasis that nissan has placed on keeping the tranny withing a specific operating range. This is the tranny found in the X-trail, murano etc. Comes 2WD or AWD.

[Chiney]

^^ good info

[A33_VQ35]

very good info, but i got lost here.

I used 4 computer power supply fans with the integrated temp speed control so they regulate themselves. Its the fans with the little blue thermistor sticking out from the motor in the air flow path. With this setup you must pull air across the cooler tru the fans or the temp sensors won't work.

something to consider don't have a cvt but it could be applicable to other areas.

[cacasplat3]

tranny coolers are a necessary thing in our climate.... plus with the kind of driving done by most ppl... the tranny gets more load than usual so the oil heats up..... how do u install an oil cooler to a tranny anyways..... coolers are kind of cheap... and the lines shouldnt be hard to get either.

[ziig]

good info except there is no need for a fan...the tranny gets its heat from torque multiplication not traffic as was mentioned..a small effective cooler will work wonders for a non towing application.

[venum]

krack korn really great info there, a lil overkill for my application though, but good nevertheless

I agree with Dave, fluid is a protector against heat and temperature, it doesn't need any activation,

None of my research thus far has indicated anything negative about keeping fluid too cool,

in fact, the cooler the better since a lot of internet sources attribute transmission failure to too things:
1. Lack of fluid (leaks or low levels) - causing heat and friction damage
2. Heat damage

Reason:
"At higher temperatures the transmission fluid burns loosing its lubricating qualities and becomes oxidized leaving deposits all over inside the transmission. Exposed to the heat the rubber seals and gaskets inside the transmission become hardened causing leaks. The metal parts warp and loose their strength. All this, sooner or later, results in transmission failure"
http://www.samarins.com/maintenance/transmain.html

It's a known fact that the sport mode feature of most CVT's enable the car to perform more aggressively than the regular Drive setting, however this mode causes the CVT to heat up faster and I was advised by a mechanic to avoid using this setting for extended periods of time. I believe that an upgraded trannie oil cooler will allow the Sport Mode setting to be safely used for longer time period as well as extend the life of teh trannie

Some good reading here:

http://www.leemyles.com/faq.htm

[Chiney]

that really true about oil based liquids anywhere around.. once heated to much.. they lose their properties bit by bit. leave unwanted deposits.. same as the engine oil... if the oil get really old. it loses is properties gradually and leaves deposits in the block.. which we dont want !

so from readin.. its might help the situation ah bit.. and the tranny and oil can live longer! ?

someone correct me if i went wrong anywhere

[cacasplat3]

^^^^^ more or less correct..... it would improve tranny oil life and in turn protect the tranny....cuz the hotter the oil the quicker the clutches burn..... burnt clutches is a NO NO

[venum]

cacasplat3 dunno how many clutches a CVT trannie has, if any at all

Chiney, you pretty much supporting what I posted there, so I would say that you are right

so from readin.. its might help the situation ah bit.. and the tranny and oil can live longer! ?

I will agree with the you only to the extent of the tranny living longer, NOT teh trannie oil

I believe that the CVT trannie oil should still be changed at the recommended 20,000 km intervals, with or without additional aftermarket oil cooler, because the fluid eventually gets deposits and particles and other contaminants

it may not suffer as much heat deterioration, but it will get contaminated, so I say still change at regular 20,000 km intervals

[cacasplat3]

that reminds me....i due for ah change too

[ziig]

no clutches in a CVT just a steel belt and pullies with hydraulic actuators...etc.
but Tranny oil is more than a lubricant it alsso has the task of transporting and cooling and CLEANING....the detergent properties in tranny fluid are way higher than any other oil used in the vehicle.........that is why changing it regularly and keeping it very cool (as Possible) is important

[venum]

So can we all agree that the installation of a secondary, aftermarket cooler will in fact extend tranny life?

I would think to install it with the stock, i.e. do not remove the stock

[Chiney]

while hp gains are like next to nutten here...or none at all...

its gonna be good to have it if u kno u do alot of driving this way u can help your tranny as well as keep the oil usuable for a longer period of time.. imo

wat sorta fundin will something like this need?

[venum]

the oil cooler will be the most $$$, since it will be the main item

all u basically need would be the oil cooler, mounting brackets for the oil cooler (if it isn't sold with its own brackets) and small lengths of hose

any one have an idea of the $$$

[wagonrunner]

according to dave.
FU coolers can he bad fro $200-$400 max. that was a while ago though. when i was still tranny.

[cacasplat3]

^^^^that isnt bad.... lines would be cheap unless u using steel braided ones.

another thing about oil coolers....they increase the volume of the oil your tranny would hold....so that by itself should give lower temperatures

[fras]

Perma Cool - Thin Line Transmission Cooler Kit
Coil Size: 3/4" X 5 X 15-1/2" Push On

To suit all model vehicles - dramatically cools down transmission fluid tempatures, extending longevity and reducing flaring and other transmission slippage problems.

[venum]

http://www.alamomotorsports.com/pmc/pmc ... ooler.html

http://www.daviescraig.com.au/main/display.asp?pid=28