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Smelters for sure

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WD-40

Smelters for sure

Postby WD-40 » December 6th, 2006, 12:38 am

None of the arguments against the proposed aluminium smelters has convinced Government to put an end to the projects, so far.

On the eve of today's symposium on the smelters, Prime Minister Patrick Manning said yesterday that his administration was confident that its decision to pursue an aluminium smelting industry will stand up to any scrutiny, once the public is aware of all the facts.

He also said that the symposium is meant to allow the public to have all the facts on the controversial smelting issue but he stressed that it was not a public consultation.

Manning spoke of Government's stance on the issue while addressing a group of entrepreneurs at the Downtown Owners and Merchants Association's breakfast meeting held at the Crowne Plaza in Port of Spain.

"It is not arrogance. It is confidence. It is giving careful thought to the course of action before we embark on it and, so far, with all that has been said, there has not been one new idea that has come up. There has not been one new idea, my dear friends, not one idea the government did not take into account in the first place that causes us to want to change the course of action on which we are embarked," Manning said.

Manning also indicated that his administration saw no need to halt the ongoing pre-construction activities of two proposed aluminium smelter plants as discussion on the issue took place.

Today's symposium which is being co-hosted by the South Trinidad Chamber of Industry and Commerce, the National Energy Corporation and the University of the West Indies, will be taking place at the Paria Suites Hotel, La Romaine, from 9 a.m.

The event, which will be televised live on TV6, is scheduled to end at 5 p.m. and will feature presentations from Energy Minister Dr Lenny Saith as well as local and international experts.

During a post-Cabinet news conference at Whitehall, Port of Spain, on November 2, Manning announced he had authorised the NEC to organise the symposium because the public debate on the smelting issue had become too emotionally charged.

Manning said yesterday that the idea behind today's symposium was "to put the facts of the matter in the public domain so that the public discussion can now proceed on the basis of fact rather than emotion".

"It was never a consultation," he said.

Manning said the experts of all the relevant agencies will say what the facts are and then the government will file a motion in the Parliament.

"And we will debate it and we invite all comers to join in the debate because the Government is convinced my, dear friends, of the rectitude of our cause," he said.

He asserted that the government "does not jump in the morning" and make any of its decisions.

Manning said that his administration considers all views when making its decisions but is willing to listen to differing views.

"Of course, we listen carefully to the conversation to see if any point of view is raised that was not taken into account when we came to our conclusion in the first place," Manning said.

"And if we hear such a point of view, we will take that point of view into account and if in taking that into account, it changes the equation and the government has to make an adjustment to the equation, then it will make it. The government will make it. We are not infallible."

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index.pl ... =161062586

( Let me just say that I'm sorry if certain parties feel that this is another political fire thread, but I feel that this issue affects every man, woman and child on this island and it should be given as much visability as possible! )

"It is not arrogance. It is confidence." Manning <-- New favourite quote.

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Postby - Rovin's car audio - » December 6th, 2006, 12:56 am

d FMC man dun plan what he intend 2 do long time now & have alla we like some ass thinking well he go change he mind .....:roll:


lewwe stop beating around d bush & go directly up 2 d Privy Council & stop this sheit 1 time & dun ....... :x

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Postby RASC » December 6th, 2006, 1:04 am

Now the true character of trinidadians is about to be tested...lets see who is really talkers or really action takers...finding out who the firm is connected too(financially of course) and take the relivant steps...that is, if you truly dont want a smelter :!:

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Postby OffshoreMarketing » December 6th, 2006, 1:10 am

^^^ correct is right ...but lets see it think if anyone gets in the way of manning they go pay the price

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Postby RASC » December 6th, 2006, 1:31 am

^^^thats only one way-there are many other ways for this to be achieved, lets see how creative the ones who dont want the smelter are!

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Postby evokiller » December 6th, 2006, 2:28 am

wen the fack is elections jedz?!?! i culd finally vote.. so i voting ne1 else but dat manning MC!!!

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Postby Mr. Cheese » December 6th, 2006, 6:58 am

People have to stand up for their rights and let no government fcuk them over.
if the governmaent gets their way with these smelter plants, there would be more smelters in Cedros, Manzanilla, Icacos etc.....
since pt. lisas industrial estate is almost filled to capacity, they (gov't and NEC) are looking at "other" places.
this clearly shows us that the government is not concerned about the welfare and health of their people!

manning is aforking macomere man puppet and his strings are being pulled by foreign companies who don't give a sheit about third world people. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Postby Mr. Cheese » December 6th, 2006, 7:09 am

^^ dey should build it up manning's arse and make him jump around and bawl out wubba-wubba :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

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Postby streak » December 6th, 2006, 7:11 am

His plan was to build it all along ..... meetings with the public was just for show.

VOTE PNM!!!

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Postby JWT » December 6th, 2006, 7:12 am

^^ :lol: :lol: :lol:
put one in drayton street :lol: :lol:

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Postby Mr. Cheese » December 6th, 2006, 7:16 am

^^^ you could replace your radiator wit a smelter.....it might wuk better :mrgreen:

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Postby mitsu_crazy » December 6th, 2006, 7:47 am

cheese da squeeze wrote:^^^ you could replace your radiator wit a smelter.....it might wuk better :mrgreen:


he might cut d whole cane field this time.... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby Mr. Cheese » December 6th, 2006, 7:53 am

mitsu_crazy wrote:
cheese da squeeze wrote:^^^ you could replace your radiator wit a smelter.....it might wuk better :mrgreen:


he might cut d whole cane field this time.... :lol: :lol: :lol:


Caroni would save $$$ instead ah burning de canefields and hiring people to cut de cane :lol: :lol:

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Postby mitsu_crazy » December 6th, 2006, 7:54 am

yuh know....

ah better bring in some sti parts.....

ah sure to get sale.... :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Postby Mr. Cheese » December 6th, 2006, 7:56 am

^^^ Gives a new meaning to Off-road.....i mean Off-cane driving" :mrgreen:

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Postby Cjruckus » December 6th, 2006, 8:11 am

About fcuking time.
Start construction already.

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Postby ~Street Sleeper~ » December 6th, 2006, 8:21 am

About fcuking time.
Start construction already.

:lol:

hmmm Manning hosting a Symposium but in an otherwise interview he stated that the Govt is moving full pace ahead to expand the nation's industrial base by means of the aluminium smelter plant and steel production

waz d point of the symposium again :|

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Postby r3iXmann » December 6th, 2006, 9:04 am

the ppl need to get radical... start sabotaging construction sites..thief tools,blow up sheit,if i was living down there eh...

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Postby Samo » December 6th, 2006, 10:09 am

HUTRINI wrote:Now the true character of trinidadians is about to be tested...lets see who is really talkers or really action takers...finding out who the firm is connected too(financially of course) and take the relivant steps...that is, if you truly dont want a smelter :!:



My thoughts exactly.

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Postby Mr. Cheese » December 6th, 2006, 10:26 am

From www.pnm.org.tt

what a load of horse sheit :evil:




Author: The Sentinel
Article Posted on: October 31, 2006


The Smelter Row - A True Story



The proposed introduction in Trinidad of two Aluminium smelter plants has generated very fierce verbiage, most of which has been imaginary and vociferous to a point where the protagonists have become shrill and senseless in their hate, not so much of the idea, but of the government who has proposed the idea.

A lot of splenetic expressions have confounded and clouded the issue so much that some of the members of the Anti-Smelter lobby have even preached violence and other illegal activities. They have used questionable data to spin a web of lies and deception that even they are now believing their own propaganda. They say they are even linking up with an international march in London today (27th Oct.), which was a noted failure, in order to take their grievance onto the international stage.

That’s why I was so encouraged when I heard the calm words of Rodney Jaglal, the president of UWI Guild, who said that The Guild would take no action until they know the facts of the matter and inform their members. The detractors pitched camp outside UWI and hoped to influence the students, but like any institution of learning the students preferred to learn the pros and cons of the issue before making up their mind. They are presently in the process of gathering the information on which they would make an unbiased judgement after a fair and fearless debate in its hallowed halls of learning, and it is this process by these young people that bodes well for the future; they will not be hustled, bullied or pilloried into making a decision based on threats, violence or the din of the loudmouth.

The debate has now begun when Mr Wade Hughes, director of Public Strategy for Alcoa, joined in with an article in today’s Guardian describing Alcoa’s smelting activities around the world. I hope that UWI students would take these pieces of information into their deliberations to come to an informed and balanced decision.

The main concerns of aluminum smelting are pollution of the air, land and waterways which could lead to health problems if the pollutants are not addressed vigorously and tests are not done regularly. These areas of concern are:-

WATER POLUTION: Water effluent volumes from the plant can be minimised and/or eliminated by good designs and operating practices; reducing the water added to the process; segregation of condensates and recycling to the process; and use of rain water in the process. Therefore, there is no leakage of process water into our water supply systems to cause contamination and pollution. This is controlled by systems approved for use in the USA by their Environmental protection Agency (USA/EPA).

SPENT POT LINING (SPL): SPL is the solid hazardous waste produced in the smelting of aluminum from its ore by electrolysis. This waste is compacted in a cake and could be reused in the process. When it reaches at the end of its useful life it is removed and disposed into specially lined landfill sites. Alcoa has promised that these cakes (SPL) would not be buried here in Trinidad, but shipped to their purpose designed processing plant in Gum Springs, Arkansas to be disposed of and controlled by the USA/EPA.

AIR POLLUTION: At smelting plants the major source of dust emissions are the dryers and control is provided by either electrostatic precipitators (ESPs) or bag house dust collectors. Removal efficiencies of 99% are achievable. Dust from conveyors and material transfer points is controlled by hoods and enclosures. Dust from truck movements can be controlled by treating road surfaces and by ensuring that vehicles do not drop materials as they travel. Dust from stock piled materials can be minimised by the use of water sprays or by enclosure in a building.

Therefore, if one takes a cold, hard look at the process of smelting one can see that the areas of concern, as shown above, have been addressed by the USA/EPA who have laid down specific standards to follow, The American Council of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) who recommends Treshold Limit Values (TLVs) and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) who recommends Permissible Exposure Limits (PELs) for aluminum.

PROXIMITY: Another legitimate area of concern is that of having the smelter in a built up area and this is fair comment as Trinidad is a small country. Wade Hughes of Alcoa addresses this point by saying that smelters around the world like USA, Australia, Canada, Brazil and Europe are all close to their home communities and ranging in distances of literally across the road to a few miles. THERE IS NO INTERNATIONAL REQUIREMENT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD TO HAVE A 100- MILE BUFFER ZONE AROUND A SMELTER PLANT.

HEALTH EFFECTS: Aluminum is not classed as an industrial poison, but if its dust enters your eyes it will cause irritation, like curry dust from our curry factory. It could cause skin rashes and upper respiratory irritation as any other irritating chemical, but due to the very effective filters and scrubbers approved by the agencies above these incidents are kept to a minimum. Any chemical in large, uncontrolled amounts will cause health problems, but we are taking a lot of trouble to ensure that this would never arise and accidents are kept to a minimum due to our tried and tested safety systems.

ECONOMIC DIVIDEND: When we produce aluminium in sheets and blocks, which are the most inert form of the material, we will maximise the economic benefits with our down stream products. This will create employment, bring in foreign exchange to our country and give us respect abroad in the manufacturing sector.

WHAT WE SHOULD DO: We as a people should form a body to monitor the operations of the two smelters instead of trying to be obstructionist in our activities.

We should MAKE SURE THAT THE SMELTING COMPANIES:-

• Give preference to the PREBAKE process for smelting.
• Use computers to control the bath and limit anode effects.
• Incinerate baking furnace gases for energy recovery, to save energy.
• Use DRY scrubber systems with aluminum oxide absorbant for control of emissions from reduction cells and from anode bake ovens. A WET system would lead to excess water effluent which could overwhelm our water courses.
• Maximize the reuse of spent pot lining (SPL).
• Dispose of SPL that cannot be reused, in our case, TAKE IT BACK TO THE USA AS PROMISED.
• Accept that processes for reusing salt slag are available and should be used in down stream manufacture.
• Ensure that there are regular perimeter sample tests by the Companies and the results made public for independent analysis.
• Allow this body access to the plants to conduct its own independent tests for the purpose of obtaining results to compare with those of the Companies.
• Agree to allow the monitoring body to install permanent perimeter sensors to detect any changes in air quality for smoke emissions, dust and particle content.
• Must have a fully maintained medical unit and an ambulance for emergencies.

The cost for monitoring these companies should be borne by the companies by way of a grant (say 1% US of profit) which must be included in the memorandum of agreement. There must be no interference by the government or the companies in the work of this body, which must function independently. The body should also be allowed to raise private finance by donation.

A harmonious arrangement like this could go a long way to removing all the hype and disinformation about the smelter which are presently making the rounds.
In the ideal world everything is perfect and predictable, but in the real world everything, including water, has a danger point to humans. We take measured and controlled risks to progress and move forward. It is in this context that the smelters should be viewed and, like the developed countries mentioned above, accept them as tools for our prosperity.

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Postby sinners-bliss » December 6th, 2006, 11:45 am

I've been listening to these ppl

honestly , they make it sound so pretty

these smelters harness diff sources of power hydroelectric
coal ,gas

i'm amazed by some of the stuff i'm hearing and learning

i'm still against it though but these presenters aren't saying pro smelter they are just hitting u the facts as it is for their respective countries .

The main reason trinidad was selected is because we don't have a regulartory board to set gas prices according to market price . Hence these companies can and well get gas at a lower (EXTREMELY ) lower price.

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Postby RASC » December 7th, 2006, 9:09 am

reiXmann, er no...thats not what im talking bout either...thats illegal, why you stooping to that level? be above the slackness ppl...

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Postby ChuckeyBaby » December 7th, 2006, 9:12 am

My question is why we need three smelter in Trinidad... the ad is Austrilla we are a point of the popluation..... for a smelter ....much more three

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Postby nareshseep » October 3rd, 2009, 3:09 pm

bump

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Postby bunny » October 3rd, 2009, 3:23 pm

fellas, here we have the state filing legal action against itself....you really find they look like they care bout wha we tink bout smelters? :twisted:

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Postby slick » October 3rd, 2009, 5:07 pm

pioneer wrote:i fine dey could put a smelter in west moorings

x2

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Postby ase_tt » February 24th, 2010, 10:18 pm

they still building this?

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Postby Dirty Face » February 24th, 2010, 10:40 pm

One I believe,Instead of the proposed two. Alutint or something like that, the one where the Gov own half or so, Vene own some, and whoever else (Warner/Duprey/Ish - the usual suspects) :lol:

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Postby ase_tt » February 24th, 2010, 11:08 pm

look how dis topic die down eh...and now hot news is a church!

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Postby biggy82 » February 24th, 2010, 11:41 pm

Mr. Cheese wrote:^^ dey should build it up manning's arse and make him jump around and bawl out wubba-wubba :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

sig material :lol:

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