The Religion Discussion

[nareshseep]

[Ronaldo95163]

^ yeah. All made up. Things we can't explain as science progresses were given the god explanation in the past.

Think u mean can't, right?
So u think, for all the things we couldn't explain, we came up with the idea of a God and gave Him all the credit?
1)How do you think this idea of a God entered one's mind?
2)If God is made up, how was the first person who made Him up able to convince everyone else about his God idea when they wouldn't even know what a God was? Why would they entertain his idea? (I'll elaborate if you don't understand what I'm asking)
3) If God is made up as u say, why is it that so many people believe in Him and continue to believe? These people may claim to have been touched by God or had some type of spiritual encounter. What do you think of these people?
3)If it's all made up, why do people who have near death experiences share stories of seeing God, heaven and hell, demons etc.?
4)How do you think humans reached on earth?

you like many human beings for thousand of years,have been culturally brainwashed to accept a non-factual/heavenly creator god

Soooooooo....the earth just got here on it's own....if there was nothing before.....where did the "nothing" come from? How did the earth get here. Even if the earth got here on it's own....how were humans created????

[maj. tom]

^ yeah. All made up. Things we can't explain as science progresses were given the god explanation in the past.

Think u mean can't, right?
So u think, for all the things we couldn't explain, we came up with the idea of a God and gave Him all the credit?
1)How do you think this idea of a God entered one's mind?
2)If God is made up, how was the first person who made Him up able to convince everyone else about his God idea when they wouldn't even know what a God was? Why would they entertain his idea? (I'll elaborate if you don't understand what I'm asking)
3) If God is made up as u say, why is it that so many people believe in Him and continue to believe? These people may claim to have been touched by God or had some type of spiritual encounter. What do you think of these people?
3)If it's all made up, why do people who have near death experiences share stories of seeing God, heaven and hell, demons etc.?
4)How do you think humans reached on earth?

I do mean can.
1. How did the idea of god enter your mind? and your brothers and sisters, if any? and before that with your parents? Were you told or did you actually observe something that you couldn't explain and tried to replicate those results and create a plausible explanation via logic?

2. It's hardly likely that just one person made up god or gods or spirits, or just wanted to understand to explain why that rock didn't fall on his head without understanding what is gravity and what is probability and statistics. As hunters and gatherers settled and turned to agriculture and animal breeding, societies and civilizations formed. They then collectively transferred their knowledge and beliefs to every next generation, something called culture, thus propagating religion. Religion and gods create fear in people, because we think if we don't do something right, we will get punished for it. So past civilizations decided to explain drought on an angry god and sacrificed animals and even people to appease their god. Thousands of god have exists to various civilizations in the past, they come and go: Egypt, Greece, Rome, Cambodia, Hawaii, etc. And they all have similar concepts of higher controlling beings that don't actually interact or have any effect on the real world. The greatest fear of people is to question the beliefs passed on for thousands of years because then god will get angry and you will go to hell, or you will fail exams, get sick, relative may die, etc.

3. I answered half in 2. Yes people claim lots of things, being touched by god and healed of sickness. People also claim to have encountered UFOs and being abducted by aliens, seeing bigfoot, the lochness monster and everything you can imagine. It is the science of psychology and understanding the human brain, they way we think and perceive events that really can be explained simply by science, but we apply certain significance to the event because we firmly believe that a god had something to do with our good fortunes.

We are quite biased because we our brains, those with a normal neurology, is such a complex organ that it fights off depression and traumatic events and makes us dismiss bad things or things that do not affect us as trivial. You won the lottery or passed exams, god did it. An earthquake struck off Japan and killed thousands...well god works in mysterious ways. A pervert breaks in your house and rapes you and murders your mother, escapes and is never brought to justice...
Thus far no spiritual encounter or godly experience has ever been recorded and observed using the Scientific Method and peer reviewed that would lend some credibility to a person's perception of nature.

4. and not 3 again. which is actually part of 3. People have near death experiences when they are about to die right, or close to it, or experienced an extremely traumatic event? You don't have one waking and healthy. Above I mentioned that the human brain is an incredibly complex organ, a preliminary course in biology on cells and the human body would easily make you realize that. And it protects us. It protects us from the realization and horror that we are about to die, which is why people go into shock, or faint. When the brain gets deprived of oxygen, that's a signal that it's dying. It then begins to hallucinate wildly and all images we see are in our brains. It tries to protect you from understanding that you are slipping away, but most people eventually do die after 3 minutes without oxygen to the brain.

How do we know this? We conducted experiments of course. In test equipment for pilots and divers, as blood is forced down from the brain in a 6 G flight or as divers learn to cope with very high pressures, they have reported such near death experiences and hallucinations, seeing a bright light and a tunnel. And the brain is biased too because it is creating an effect based on what u learnt in sunday school. American Indian tribes believed that a white horse would come and take them through the spirit world at death and such test subjects saw a horse. The brain is fighting to live and will even shut down every organ in the body including the heart to allow itself to live the longest. Studies continue and science is forever on going searching for data to fit hypotheses for every observed phenomena. For example there is research into why patients claim to see themselves looking down during a surgical procedure. At least logic minded communities seek to explain why that jumping to a conclusion that is not supported by any data at all, nothing credible, nothing that can be repeated with the same predictable results.

The same applies to heaven and hell. No one ever observed it, and it is just a belief that humans developed. Let's face it, life is a really complicated and sometimes messed up thing. Some of us experience pain and suffering, like cancer, or rape or other traumatic experiences, while others through their psychology of id and ego and super-ego are happy, selfish, greedy, etc. We all want to believe that there will be justice, and we can't get it here, so it happens after we die. The only thing we know is that we die, our brains stop working and we cease to exist. Why create something so much more complicated and has no evidence to support it just because we are afraid to die and understand that we will never ever ever exist again ever anywhere in the universe again, our conciousness and thoughts and memories and feelings, all that love we have for people, it's just gone, gone, not exist after we die. It's a hard pill to swallow eh? We have to comfort our kids when they ask these questions and they hurt, so we tell them this belief, and it is passed on and on and on.

5. How did human reach here? The same way all life on earth reached here. Through random permutations or molecules and mutations of even more complex genes, via propagation of cells to tissues to working lifeforms that exchange and convert energy and reproduce over billions of years. The confounding factor is billions of years. Two billion years since the first life appeared on earth is very hard to understand just how long that is, as no human has ever experienced a mere 150 years or so of that, or any other creature on earth, save plants (5000 years). Once again, the origins of life as we are taught in University is just one hypothesis supported by data of fossils and radioactive dating of such fossils, under progressive layers of rock that was laid down as time passed. There are other hypothesis such as panspermia which has no evidence so far, but we are on our journey to other planets, asteroids, comets and star systems to discover if such evidence exist. If we cannot find any, then we have to create a new hypothesis and find data for that.

It's quite a read, but I tried to be clear about these explanations to the questions you asked, of which many people will find holes. They are welcome to help me understand my own existence here and our universe's as science is only based on credible, repeatable observations of the real world.

There is another thread, hundreds of pages long, thousands of posts with a similar title on this forum, where everyone has their own beliefs. I suggest you head over there and add to the discussion if you are curious.

[maj. tom]

Soooooooo....the earth just got here on it's own....if there was nothing before.....where did the "nothing" come from? How did the earth get here. Even if the earth got here on it's own....how were humans created????

Well it didn't just get here and there was something before. Stellar evolution and planetary systems are a major branch of astronomy. As to where all that came from: the Big Bang. The universe started at t=0 and what happened before cannot concern us because we cannot possibly observe it. So what was there before t=0? Well here's another concept that will be familiar to you, yet baffle you.

Where did God come from? Was he always there? Was there ever a t=0 for him? How does god know he's omniscient? What if there is another higher super creator above him and he really will have no idea? What if God really just created the Universe and then let things go to happen by themselves randomly? What if he does exist but has no interaction with the physical universe and is not concerned and so we cannot find any evidence of him?

If you have found answers to those questions then why can't the same answers apply to the creation of the universe? Why couldn't energy have always existed in a void and then go Big Bang leading to creation? Why does there have to be a before? Why does there have to have some grand creature who knows everything, directing and controlling the vast unreachable, and beyond discoverable universe?

[UML]

wahm to not eating the prayers food?

[Scoobert Bauce]

^ yeah. All made up. Things we can't explain as science progresses were given the god explanation in the past.

Think u mean can't, right?
So u think, for all the things we couldn't explain, we came up with the idea of a God and gave Him all the credit?
1)How do you think this idea of a God entered one's mind?
2)If God is made up, how was the first person who made Him up able to convince everyone else about his God idea when they wouldn't even know what a God was? Why would they entertain his idea? (I'll elaborate if you don't understand what I'm asking)
3) If God is made up as u say, why is it that so many people believe in Him and continue to believe? These people may claim to have been touched by God or had some type of spiritual encounter. What do you think of these people?
3)If it's all made up, why do people who have near death experiences share stories of seeing God, heaven and hell, demons etc.?
4)How do you think humans reached on earth?

Ok I'm gonna go ahead and answer none of these.

And ask you one thing:

If you were born in India, would you be talking to me about a christian God? or if you were born in the mIddle East, would be talking to me about a Christian God or Allah?

wahm to not eating the prayers food?

I frickin LOVE thanksgivin food lol

[~Vēġó~]

this turning out to be a next GOD thread thing.....ent all this talk gone on already in that thread?

the merge is coming if this thread doesn't die.....

[sMASH]

seriously, from page two has been covered already.

[Chimera]

the "not eating prayers food" thing

I know some non-hindus believe that the pundits stand up in the parasad when they sayign prayers and does make "Sweat" rice (sweet rice) and all kinda bs so then they refuse to eat it
on the flipside, I know realllll friends who loveee to come and just eat the prayers food, same as me, whenever i invited to a prayers, i does just go after the prayers and eat the food

once or twice when i went to the prayers...i had to real fight myself from laughing when i hear the pundit talking...


if your friends refuse to come to your religious function and eat your food...then don't think too much of it. they just didn't want to for their own reasons. ALL my friends know not to TALK about religion around me but i'm still invited for whatever they have, once its after the praying done lol.

do you go to church with them and share in their biscuit and wine?
why must they come to your prayers and eat your roti and channa?

[Scoobert Bauce]

the "not eating prayers food" thing

I know some non-hindus believe that the pundits stand up in the parasad when they sayign prayers and does make "Sweat" rice (sweet rice) and all kinda bs so then they refuse to eat it
on the flipside, I know realllll friends who loveee to come and just eat the prayers food, same as me, whenever i invited to a prayers, i does just go after the prayers and eat the food

once or twice when i went to the prayers...i had to real fight myself from laughing when i hear the pundit talking...


if your friends refuse to come to your religious function and eat your food...then don't think too much of it. they just didn't want to for their own reasons. ALL my friends know not to TALK about religion around me but i'm still invited for whatever they have, once its after the praying done lol.

do you go to church with them and share in their biscuit and wine?
why must they come to your prayers and eat your roti and channa?

As a black guy I've been to enough Hindu prayers (I have friends/girlfriends/family members/neighbours, who are Hindu, I went to a school that was 90% Hindu at the time) to know that the whole standing in the prasad thing is not true. But yeah the pundit talking thing does crack me up, and when they tellin the most wierd stories from the Gita and try to tie it into real life lol.

I mostly go if Im invited out of respect. But yeah my friends know I'm an athiest, and it doesnt really matter to some of them, some resented me for it, and some worry about my soul lol.

[Ronaldo95163]

Welll....I don't eat prayers food either and I won't invite those that are not of my religion to religious functions simply because it's not their religion and out of respect...I think that would be the more respectable thing instead of they/me encouraging them/me to partake in something that isn't of my/their religion

[1UZFE]

thank God Friday is finished so we can now lock this thread..
ps...I love prayers food."Its not what goes into a man defiles a man but what come out of him"

[AdamB]

What is the Significance of the Crescent Moon in Islam?

Published on: Wednesday 12 Oct, 2005

By: administrator

Mohd Elfie Nieshaem Juferi

Apart from the claim that “Allah” is the name of the moon god, the Christian missionaries also tend assert this claim by questioning why do Muslims use the crescent symbol as a symbol for their religion, or why is the moon being used in Islam to mark a new month. They engage into the logical fallacy of equivocation, that since Muslims use the crescent as the symbol of Islam, therefore it follows that Muslims worship some kind of “moon deity”. This is no more truer than claiming that since Judaism adopts the Star of David symbol, it follows that the Jews considers it as an object for worship, or that Christians worship the Crucifix since it is used as its symbol. This paper would attempt to explain the significance of the moon in Islam, insha’allah.

Islam and the Moon

Islam never teaches nor does it expounds moon worship. It in fact repudiates it, as the following verse confirms:

So what is the function of the moon in Islam? The only function it plays in Islam is that it determines the Islamic lunar calendar. The Qur’an confirms this when it speaks of the moon being subject to God’s Law. This is confirmed when we read the following verse

“Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to God, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.” (Qur’an, 41: 37)

If Allah” (God) is the “moon-god” as claimed by misguided Christians, why would that very same “moon-god” create the moon for the use of mankind? In short, the claim that Muslims worship “Allah the moon-god” is nothing but a heinous lie which is not based on evidence.

“Seest thou not that God merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night; that he has subjected the sun and the moon (to His Law), each running its course for a term appointed: and that God is well acquainted with all that ye do?” (Qur’an, 31:29)

Judaism and the Moon

It is interesting to note that the Jews also adopt the lunar calendar to mark their holy festivals. The Jewish religious calendar, of Babylonian origin, consists of 12 lunar months, amounting to about 354 days. Six times in a 19-year cycle a 13th month is added to adjust the calendar to the solar year. The day is reckoned from sunset to sunset.1

The moon also plays an important role in a symbolic comparison with the Jewish nation. We reproduce below an article written by Rabbi Avrohom Berger that states as such.

[jewmoon What is the Significance of the Crescent Moon in Islam?]

The article above would clearly refute the nonsense that Islam based its calendar on the moon because it was a religion of the moon god, for if Islam was really the religion of the moon god, what is the religion of the Jews who used (and still use) the lunar calendar and constantly analogises itself to the moon? In fact, a Jewish site confirmed the above by stating:

Condemning the Jewish religion as “moon worship” based on the “logic” (or rather, the lack of it!) of the Christian missionaries would, however, lead to serious implications that could undermine their own faith, as Jesus (P) was a learned Rabbi and faithful Jew himself. However, they have no qualms condemning Islam for using the lunar calendar. Such double standards are not alien to Christian thought, after all the end justifies the means, just as (St.) Paul did the same.

The Jewish Nation has been likened to the moon. Our history, cyclical in nature, waxes and wanes like the moon through its cycle hidden at times, but always reemerging to full blossom.2

Christianity and The Solar Calendar

We have seen that both Judaism and Islam, as in the tradition of Semitic culture, use the lunar calendar to mark their months. The question now is why Christianity adopted the solar calendar, instead of the lunar? As surprising as it is to the missionary, the adoption of the sun as the official calendar of ‘Christianity’ occurs as late as 325 C.E. and was due to the prevailing pagan influences of sun worship. The cult of the sun-god was the most popular creed at the advent of Jesus, and was prevalent in all the countries into which the religion called “Christianity” is later introduced in. Pagan gods such as Appolo or Dionysus among the Greeks, Hercules among the Romans, Mithra among the Persians, and Osiris, Isis and Horus in Egypt et. al., are all sun-gods3. In the face of the evidence, one cannot help but conclude that the adoption of the solar calender is certainly due to the strong Hellenistic influences of the sun-god cult during its adoption.

Conclusions

It is clear that the creation of a calendar is for the purpose of keeping time in perspective. Time is measured in relative terms, from sunrise to sunset; from the time the sun casts the shortest shadow to the same time the next day; from one harvest time to another. In ancient times, the phases of the moon were an easy means of measuring the passage of time. The first calendars were lunar calendars. Ancient civilizations such as the Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians and the Chinese used the lunar calendar. The Semitic culture also adopts this calendar, with the exception of Christianity, which uses the solar calendar due to pagan Hellenistic influences by Greco-Roman culture. There is therefore no logical reason to associate the lunar calendar of Islam with moon worship.

[MG Man]

why does islam need a 'symbol'?

[Humes]

I thought Islam frowned on religiously-linked symbology in general.

[pioneer]

That's le callsign

[AdamB]

“Among His Signs are the Night and the Day and the Sun and Moon. Prostrate (adore) not to the Sun and the Moon but prostrate to God, Who created them, if it is Him ye wish to serve.” (Qur’an, 41: 37). LOng story short, it is not associated with any form of worship and holds absolutely no significance pertaining to the religion of Islam.

Islam was perfected over 1400 yrs ago by Allah for muslims and those who recognize this and are free to enter the faith. Al-Mâ’idah – Surah 5. The Table Spread [5:3] “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favors upon you, and have chosen for you, Islam as your religion.”

The moon and star did not exist then as a symbol, so it's existence now, if it had been of any significance pertaining to worship, would be an innovation and therefore not accepted by Allah. This is a general rule as all innovation are misguidance, and all misguidance will lead to the fire of hell.

This is the position in Islam, for your appreciation.

[AdamB]

I thought Islam frowned on religiously-linked symbology in general.

I hope the previous post made it clear that it is not religiously-linked.

[Humes]

I thought Islam frowned on religiously-linked symbology in general.

I hope the previous post made it clear that it is not religiously-linked.

Then why does it sit atop so many mosques? Why is it painted on so many mosque signs and used in so much Muslim literature?

[AdamB]

[quote="Kasey"
Please refrain from the lil boy name calling. Its just makes you look immature and closed minded.

AdamB Plz take note also, this was a mature discussion until you new bozos entered this thread.

If you were here and observing what happened in this thread from the beginning, you would have realised that many of the things that are now being brought up, were already discussed many times before.

tIP: Check the join date of the user you are replying to, and search his/her posts in this thread.

If you just blurt out whats on ur mind, the many of us in here who were here from the begining just laughing at you guys.

Another thing is that alot of the users in here have developed some sort of respect in their writings, and deserve as much, since they were here from the beginning, and SHOULD be considered mature users (eg, Dspike, Duane, even sMASH, and sad to say, even Megadoc and bluefete LOL), but some of you (babies) who now join and want to blab ur mouths at the "Adults" here making this thread a never ending laughing cycle.

JUST AVE SOME RESPECT IN PEOPLES WRITINGS PLEASE. This is a debate / discussion.[/quote]

Just wanted to show the hecklers that those who believe in GOD can get get on like "ole n***a" if the need be to defend oneself. Wanted to show how it feels to get "a taste of their own medicine". An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

If you notice I was trying and still trying to keep the debate to a mature level of discussion.

[sMASH]

in war, one must protect against becoming the very thing u oppose

[AdamB]

I thought Islam frowned on religiously-linked symbology in general.

The ideals of the religion does...IT IS NOT RELIGIOUSLY LINKED.

There are 5 different rules of obligation: the obligatory, prohibited, recommended, disliked and permissible.

A national flag or symbol like the moon and star that is NOT WORSHIPPED would be classed as permissible, meaning that there would neither be a reward nor a punishment linked to it's use.

Let's try to move on please.

[Humes]

Soundin like Catholics when they say they doh worship Mary.

[Ronaldo95163]

Soundin like Catholics when they say they doh worship Mary.

Worse yet when you tell them about it

[AdamB]

OP...u defeat the purpose of your "prayers" or "offerings" to your "God" if u hadda be thinking abt small matters like, who come and didnt eat, who eh come at all....small ting...stick to ur own kind next time.

but then ppl go say he racial or discriminatory

btw as i said it didnt happen to me.[/quote]

In Islam, the origin of worship is that all worship is prohibited except for that which has a sound basis (evidence from Quran or prophetic reports).

"is it not god you offering it to?" The god of hindus is not our God, Allah, because of different names used that liken that god to the creation, that does not meet the acceptance criteria stated above.

Food is the opposite, ie all food is permissible except that which has evidence of its prohibition from the same sources as above.

All vege food is halaal / permissible to eat, even if a hindu offers it to his god. That is why maybe the majority will eat it.

Some have a different view that "offering it to other gods" makes it haraam (prohibited). That is why some will not partake of it.

Meat becomes halaal when, prior to the humane slaughtering of the permissible animal, a prayer is said basically asking God (Allah) to make the meat permissible for muslims to eat. I stress on the humane slaughtering, making sure that the main blood vessels and wind pipe in the throat are cut so that death is quick and with minimum pain/suffering. Also, the blood, which contains impurities that may cause diseases, is allowed to run freely.

Permission to eat comes from Allah.

The hotline to God exists, it is called duah meaning supplication.

Supplication means to beseech, cry to, and invoke. It is used to call out to God. Humans get closer to God through supplications and find peace and comfort.

Supplication is the spirit of worship and the result of sincere belief. For one who makes supplication shows through it that there is someone who rules the whole universe; One Who knows the most insignificant things about me, can bring about my most distant aims. Who sees every circumstance of mine, and hears my voice. In which case, He hears all the voices of all beings, so that He hears my voice too. He does all these things, and so I await my smallest matters from Him too. I ask Him for them.

Thus, look at the great breadth of sincere belief in God's Unity which supplication gives and at the sweetness and purity of the light of belief that it shows. Understand the meaning of the verse, Say, No importance would your Sustainer attach to you were it not for your supplication; (Al-Furqan Surah, 25:77) listen to the decree of, And your Sustainer says: Call on Me; I shall answer you: (Al-Mumin Surah, 40:60) As the saying goes: "If I had not wanted to give, I would not have given wanting." (1)

That is to say, if God had not given what we want with our supplications, He would not have given the feeling of wanting. We are experiencing the blessing of changing seasons in which God gives the opportunity for us to benefit from the van-loaded provisions available in the springtime. Compassionate and Merciful God will indeed give what we want with our supplications. As He fulfills our physical needs, He will bestow the reward of eternity, which is the desire of our souls and grant us Paradise.

The best, finest, sweetest, most fruit and result of supplica¬tion is this, that the person who offers it knows there is someone who lis¬tens to his voice, sends a remedy for his ailment, takes pity on him, and whose hand of power reaches everything. He is not alone in this great hostel of the world; there is an All-Generous One Who looks after him and makes it friendly. Imagining himself in the presence of-the One Who can bring about all his needs and repulse all his innumerable enemies, he feels a joy and relief; he casts off a load as heavy as the world, and exclaims: "AH praise be to God, the Sustainer of All the Worlds!" (2)

Supplication is an act of worship. There are so many verses and Hadiths on this. Some of those are:

And when (O Messenger) My servants ask you about Me, then surely I am near: I answer the prayer of the suppliant when he prays to Me. So let them respond to My call (without hesitation), and believe and trust in Me (in the way required of them), so that they may be guided to spiritual and intellectual excellence and right conduct. (Al Baqarah Surah, 2:186) Say: "My Lord would not care for you were it not for your prayer. Now that you have denied (His Message), the inescapable punishment will cleave to you." (Al-Furqan Surah, 25:77)

Narrated An-Nu'man ibn Bashir: The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Supplication (du'a') is itself the worship. (He then recited:) "And your Lord said: Call on Me, I will answer you" (Al-Mumin Surah, 40:60) (3)

In addition, supplicating is the easiest and one of the most pious acts of all. Because, it can be done easily, abluted or not, while sitting or lying down, while walking around or even working. As because he/she commemorates Gods name all the time, the doors of benefactions will be opened for him/her and As a matter of fact, in a hadith narrated by Ibn Omar, Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said, "For any one among you, if the door of acceptance of du`a is opened, then the doors of His Mercy are also opened. The best du`a Allah likes is the one in which the caller asks for the goodness of this world and the goodness of the next world." (4)

Abu Hurayrah reported that the Messenger of Allah, (peace be upon him) said, When it is the last third of the night, our Lord, the Blessed, the Superior, descends every night to the heaven of the world and says, 'Is there anyone who supplicates Me (demand anything from Me), that I may respond to his supplication; Is there anyone who asks Me for something that I may give (it to) him; Is there anyone who asks My forgiveness that I may forgive him?' (5).

[pioneer]

oh boy...muslims trying to prove a point by using cliche copypastas



brb trying not to slip into coma

[AdamB]

Soundin like Catholics when they say they doh worship Mary.

They call Mary "Mother of GOD" and build statues.
Second Commandment of Moses (KJV):
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

THE MOON AND STAR HOLDS NO RELIGIOUS SIGNIFICANCE, GET OVER IT!!

[AdamB]

oh boy...muslims trying to prove a point by using cliche copypastas

Blah blah blah...what's your point? making sly remarks that add nothing to the discussion is cliche! Real mature! Uninformed opinions count for nothing.

If you're an atheist/naturalist continue to worship nothing. If you're a believer in GOD, seek the path to worship HIM alone for certainly the worship to other than HIM does not reach HIM and will not benefit you.

[pioneer]

strong points brah

[Kasey]

Please refrain from the lil boy name calling. Its just makes you look immature and closed minded.

AdamB Plz take note also, this was a mature discussion until you new bozos entered this thread.

If you were here and observing what happened in this thread from the beginning, you would have realised that many of the things that are now being brought up, were already discussed many times before.

tIP: Check the join date of the user you are replying to, and search his/her posts in this thread.

If you just blurt out whats on ur mind, the many of us in here who were here from the begining just laughing at you guys.

Another thing is that alot of the users in here have developed some sort of respect in their writings, and deserve as much, since they were here from the beginning, and SHOULD be considered mature users (eg, Dspike, Duane, even sMASH, and sad to say, even Megadoc and bluefete LOL), but some of you (babies) who now join and want to blab ur mouths at the "Adults" here making this thread a never ending laughing cycle.

JUST AVE SOME RESPECT IN PEOPLES WRITINGS PLEASE. This is a debate / discussion.

Just wanted to show the hecklers that those who believe in GOD can get get on like "ole n***a" if the need be to defend oneself. Wanted to show how it feels to get "a taste of their own medicine". An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

If you notice I was trying and still trying to keep the debate to a mature level of discussion.

thats actually a very immature attitude, and a very immature statement...."an eye for an eye" LOL!!!!!

read sMASH's statement after u made this.