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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby megadoc1 » April 26th, 2011, 6:26 pm

men bawling to have the ched close yess lol......
you guys getting uncomfortable?


Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?
God made Adam a big man didn't he?

So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?
nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method

why would God make the earth appear older?
beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?
His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old
the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right


but he instead makes it look like the book
is lying when tested with scientific methods? He on games orrr?
because of your misconception that the bible states the age of the earth
you would have no choice but to arrive at such

------------------------------------------------

Ok so explain this: an object in space that is 100 million lightyears away, we are seeing that object as it was 100 million years ago because it took the light 100 million years to get to us. If the universe is ~6000 years old, how then can that object be over 100 million years old?

this is absolutely proven by the way - the sun is ~8 light minutes away from us
I will get back to you on this

lol at star trek........

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 26th, 2011, 7:17 pm

megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?

God made Adam a big man didn't he?
there is no empirical evidence that Adam even existed - using that as an answer is circular logic.

That's like someone saying he can make you rich by claiming he made other people rich, but the other people are not around.

megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?

nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method
orly? do you have something more accurate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
hundreds of tests have been done using items where the age was known and the radiocarbon dating process was accurate. Granted that the accuracy may fall off when dealing with millions or billions of years but it still shows the age of the earth as being billions of years old.

megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:why would God make the earth appear older?

beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?
circular logic again

megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote: His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old

the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right
that is why I used the ~ symbol to show approximation.
Earlier on in this thread you or bluefete had posted that was the calculated age of the earth based on the bible. But lets say I'm wrong; what is the age of the earth based on the bible account?

Oh and don't side step the question by claiming that such things are unimportant in praising God. You take His book very literally, so this is a pertinent question.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby turbohead » April 26th, 2011, 7:35 pm

bluefete wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?

So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?

why would God make the earth appear older? His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old but he instead makes it look like the book is lying when tested with scientific methods? He on games orrr?

------------------------------------------------

Ok so explain this: an object in space that is 100 million lightyears away, we are seeing that object as it was 100 million years ago because it took the light 100 million years to get to us. If the universe is ~6000 years old, how then can that object be over 100 million years old?

this is absolutely proven by the way - the sun is ~8 light minutes away from us



In an expanding universe where things are moving AWAY from each other, it is possible for some objects to be more distant than others.

However, the measurements that scientists use are meant to bring our thoughts into one direction to maintain some kind of scientific harmony. Thus the numericalities of hundreds of millions and billions of years.

With an [b]infinite Creator
however, measurement of space-time from our puny perspective is something we may never truly understand.

6,000 odd years may seem short but is long enough for a speeded up evolutionary process. Go look at Star Trek 3 - The Search for Spock.[/b]



this is wat i dont get with christians they claim that God is infinite, but limit Him with the attributes of man when they say Jesus(pbuh) is God. you guys keep contradicting yourselves over and over. you guys believe one ting yet say another. take one road and keep on it.

duane as for the creation of Adam(pbuh) it is mentioned in the Quran and that is suffice for me. it is without a doubt proven word of God. if any man/group could produce another book of its likeness with such detail then i would say otherwise.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 26th, 2011, 8:05 pm

but that is the same circular logic

just like this image I posted many times before in this thread

Image

this was also asked in here, but I would like to hear your take on it turbohead: did Adam have a belly button?

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby QG » April 26th, 2011, 8:24 pm

LOL @ Duane question :lol:

And yes the Quran does talk about Adam.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby sMASH » April 26th, 2011, 8:31 pm

but i don't think about his belly button

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby turbohead » April 26th, 2011, 8:34 pm

he was a man in every form, why not have a belly button because he was fashioned by God out of clay and life breathed into him and not formed in a womb of a mother? so how was the first ape of evolution born? did he/she have a belly button, it boils down to the question which came first the egg or the chicken. everything has to be created by a supreme being like it or not.

as for the napkin religion aspect where is it's creditability. what does being a muslim imply. ppl imply that only when Muhammed(saw) was given prophethood that islam was born. it is not so. being a muslim mean to submit your will to Allah/God. every prophet that came before Muhammed(saw) preached monotheism and they submitted their will to God. for the christians even Jesus(pbuh) submitted his will to God as he taught the disciples how to pray to God. he preached God's word to children of Isreal, he wasnt himself God, just as Muhammed(saw) preached God's final message to the whole of mankind, not just the Arabs.

i ask you now the question Duane could you prove evolution to me by showing me the missing link? ppl would go on for years believing in evolution and would never find that missing link all their efforts would have been in vain. i have strong authentic scriptures to live by and i choose to do so.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby bluefete » April 26th, 2011, 8:45 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
bluefete wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?

So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?

why would God make the earth appear older? His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old but he instead makes it look like the book is lying when tested with scientific methods? He on games orrr?

------------------------------------------------

Ok so explain this: an object in space that is 100 million lightyears away, we are seeing that object as it was 100 million years ago because it took the light 100 million years to get to us. If the universe is ~6000 years old, how then can that object be over 100 million years old?

this is absolutely proven by the way - the sun is ~8 light minutes away from us



In an expanding universe where things are moving AWAY from each other, it is possible for some objects to be more distant than others.

However, the measurements that scientists use are meant to bring our thoughts into one direction to maintain some kind of scientific harmony. Thus the numericalities of hundreds of millions and billions of years.

With an infinite Creator however, measurement of space-time from our puny perspective is something we may never truly understand.

6,000 odd years may seem short but is long enough for a speeded up evolutionary process. Go look at Star Trek 3 - The Search for Spock.
did you just use Star Trek to explain why what the Bible says is right?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

The Genesis Project in ST3 - TSFS saw a speeded up version of Spock's development when he was reborn. Because of a flaw in the Genesis Code, the planet Genesis also went through this speeded up evolutionary process before it destroyed itself.

Go figure!!

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby bluefete » April 26th, 2011, 8:50 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:but that is the same circular logic

just like this image I posted many times before in this thread

Image

this was also asked in here, but I would like to hear your take on it turbohead: did Adam have a belly button?


This is a chicken or egg question. If you believe in creation then the chicken definitely came first.

If you believe in evolution then the fish came first. Errr, no that's not right.

The amoeba came first then it grew into a fish and then the fish walked from the sea to the land and after some time dropped off its gills and became a duck, goat, sheep, people and so on.

To answer your question: - The original blueprint had all the genetic makeup for its offspring. Thus, Adam did have a belly button.

Eve was technically an offspring of Adam.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby bluefete » April 26th, 2011, 8:51 pm

Turbohead: Sorry. I did not read your post before putting mine. Great minds think alike.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby bluefete » April 26th, 2011, 9:05 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?

God made Adam a big man didn't he?
there is no empirical evidence that Adam even existed - using that as an answer is circular logic.

That's like someone saying he can make you rich by claiming he made other people rich, but the other people are not around.

megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?

nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method
orly? do you have something more accurate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
hundreds of tests have been done using items where the age was known and the radiocarbon dating process was accurate. Granted that the accuracy may fall off when dealing with millions or billions of years but it still shows the age of the earth as being billions of years old.

megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:why would God make the earth appear older?

beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?
circular logic again

megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote: His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old

the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right
that is why I used the ~ symbol to show approximation.
Earlier on in this thread you or bluefete had posted that was the calculated age of the earth based on the bible. But lets say I'm wrong; what is the age of the earth based on the bible account?

Oh and don't side step the question by claiming that such things are unimportant in praising God. You take His book very literally, so this is a pertinent question.


A careful, literal reading of the Bible says all creation was done in 6 days by God.

Peter says that 1 day is like a thousand years to God. Because God is infinite, time, as we know it, is not a finite concept to Him.

Scientists say that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Yet people have not been around for that long. This makes it one of the oldest things in the universe. It falls quite in line with the Genesis description in Ch 1 verses 1 & 2 which mentions the existence of the earth before the sun and moon as we know them to be.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby turbohead » April 26th, 2011, 9:09 pm

your along the correct lines but you guys still get me tied up at the Trinity cross roads. if you are monotheist i agree if you believe in trinity then you are a polygamist. please just clear that up. one ting though my cousin who is a Jehovah witness said they dont believe in Trinity but still believe Christ is lord and saviour.... i wasnt quite sure want he meant and didnt want to indulge further as to cause commontion between us.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby bluefete » April 26th, 2011, 9:12 pm

On another note: How is it that aliens (you know - those at Roswell Air Force Base) look so much like humans? 2 beady eyes, a nose, 2 hands, 2 legs.

Seems to me that these aliens certainly make the case for a Creator.

Or is it that natural selection is also a randomly occurring process on Seti Alpha VI?

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby bluefete » April 26th, 2011, 9:25 pm

turbohead wrote:your along the correct lines but you guys still get me tied up at the Trinity cross roads. if you are monotheist i agree if you believe in trinity then you are a polygamist. please just clear that up. one ting though my cousin who is a Jehovah witness said they dont believe in Trinity but still believe Christ is lord and saviour.... i wasnt quite sure want he meant and didnt want to indulge further as to cause commontion between us.


Christianity teaches about the three FORMS of the one God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
Islam teaches about one, undivided God.

Being a polygamist on the other hand means I believe in may Gods. This I do not.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby QG » April 26th, 2011, 9:26 pm

Bluefete...those Aliens sex too eh, it have young aliens!!

Hahah

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Chimera » April 26th, 2011, 9:29 pm

bluefete wrote:On another note: How is it that aliens (you know - those at Roswell Air Force Base) look so much like humans? 2 beady eyes, a nose, 2 hands, 2 legs.

Seems to me that these aliens certainly make the case for a Creator.

Or is it that natural selection is also a randomly occurring process on Seti Alpha VI?


man using aliens to justify the existence of God....well yes...grasping at straws ftl

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 26th, 2011, 9:52 pm

natural selection is not random that things on another planet may have legs on their head just because of randomness. Body structures are formed due to a specific need based on the environment the species is living in.

Perhaps there are bipedal life on other planets. Nature IS the universe, so if nature's evolutionary process sets higher-order, land dwelling species to be bipedal then it is safe to assume it will happen across the universe and not just on earth.

But I digress - there is no empirical evidence of aliens and/or of them being bipedal, with two hands, two eyes etc.

bluefete wrote:
Scientists say that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Yet people have not been around for that long. This makes it one of the oldest things in the universe. It falls quite in line with the Genesis description in Ch 1 verses 1 & 2 which mentions the existence of the earth before the sun and moon as we know them to be.
the earth is NOT one of the oldest thing in the universe! The moon is younger than the earth but the sun is far older then the earth based on how stars and planetary systems are formed.

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby turbohead » April 26th, 2011, 10:00 pm

bluefete wrote:
turbohead wrote:your along the correct lines but you guys still get me tied up at the Trinity cross roads. if you are monotheist i agree if you believe in trinity then you are a polygamist. please just clear that up. one ting though my cousin who is a Jehovah witness said they dont believe in Trinity but still believe Christ is lord and saviour.... i wasnt quite sure want he meant and didnt want to indulge further as to cause commontion between us.


Christianity teaches about the three FORMS of the one God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
Islam teaches about one, undivided God.

Being a polygamist on the other hand means I believe in may Gods. This I do not.



be this may this is still three separate personalities. this is the implication. the God the Father, God the son, and God the holy spirit. three separate entities. if all are one you are saying that the father was overseeing while previous prophets was sent until he descended as Jesus(pbuh) as a child of no physical difference as you and me when we were small. who was overseeing until he was given prophethood at the age of 29(subjected to correction). could you imagine God eating and drinkin to survive like any of us did, cause i mean the man did eat and if he did means he had to urinate and pass stool. this is contradicting your statment of infinite God as you here put limits to God. when the disciples asked how the pray why did he mention the Father if he was infact stated by christians 'God the son'. he would have said pray to me. he didnt say My Father making him exclusive son, he said 'Our Father' we are all children of God. you lastly state the Holy spirit, which was infact existant whilst Jesus was on Earth, in the womb of Elizabeth. am i wrong. three separate personalities could never in fact be accounted as 1.

eg. three identical brothers in the best of sense. one of which commits murder could you arrest all three or just the one that did the act? three separate persons.
simple as resurrection of Jesus was not real. he did not die if he did then again you are limiting God to death. is it not true that the prophesy of Jesus' trial would be of the likeness of jonah in the whale for 3 days and 3 nights. if so when jonah was thrown overboard wasnt he alive? when swallowed by the whale wasnt he alive? while in the whale alive? when spat back out ashore alive? doesnt this mean that Jesus was alive at all the time throughout the 3 days and 3 nights? if not then this is a contradiction and false prophesy in the bible...

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 26th, 2011, 10:24 pm

^ the Qu'ran has it's contradictions too

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).


on another note alot of these holy texts in most religions claim the earth is the center of the universe and that God made the universe for his greatest creation, Man.

So in modern times we have found out that the Earth is NOT the center of the universe, it is not even the center of our galaxy or even the center of our own solar system.

What happens then when we find out there are billions more planets with sentient life on it in the universe and realise we are not as important as our man-made religion makes us feel we are? What then?

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby megadoc1 » April 26th, 2011, 10:57 pm

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?

God made Adam a big man didn't he?
there is no empirical evidence that Adam even existed - using that as an answer is circular logic.

what about you making claims that the bible states the earth is 6000 years old
even though it never did ?
why is it ok for you to run of with stuff you think were in the bible
but when I do its circular logic?


Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:That's like someone saying he can make you rich by claiming he made other people rich, but the other people are not around.

no not at all the fact that age wasn't a factor when adam came about
says a lot


megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?


nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:orly? do you have something more accurate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
hundreds of tests have been done using items where the age was known and the radiocarbon dating process was accurate. Granted that the accuracy may fall off when dealing with millions or billions of years but it still shows the age of the earth as being billions of years old.
i said it before and i'll say it again carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method


Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:why would God make the earth appear older?

beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?
circular logic again
it would be a valid question if you were asking it

Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:
megadoc1 wrote:
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote: His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old

the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right
that is why I used the ~ symbol to show approximation.
Earlier on in this thread you or bluefete had posted that was the calculated age of the earth based on the bible. But lets say I'm wrong; what is the age of the earth based on the bible account?
I do not know
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Oh and don't side step the question by claiming that such things are unimportant in praising God. You take His book very literally, so this is a pertinent question.

well in this case there isnt a literal account concerning the age of the earth, given in the bible

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 26th, 2011, 11:19 pm

^ real dancing there!

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby turbohead » April 26th, 2011, 11:21 pm

firstly Duane you are a smart fellah an i don expect you to go off quoting single lines and casting contradictions as you need to look at the context in which the said verse was used. lets analyze of my little knowledge i have i will seek to improve on it further when i talk to me good friend.

the first verse ch96v2 refers to the clinging clot that attaches to the womb that forms into a leech like substance.

the second part from ch15 should have been stated like this.
25. And verily, your Lord will gather them together. Truly, He is All-Wise, All-Knowing.

26. And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

27. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.

28. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

29. "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."


for the context of which it was used for the creation of Adam and the sense. which is fitting.
ch3v59-61
59. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.

61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad ) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie."


this is used to draw comparison of the creation of Adam and the birth of Jesus both miraculous. God is sayin he created from dust Adam and said 'be' and he was and with reference to another verse from surah maryam
35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is
the main point being the decree of Allah's will to create as he pleases and create Jesus in the most pure of ways as nothing is impossible for Allah. if He wanted he could have created millions of the likeness of Jesus but he chose to have him be unique.


ch19v65-72
65. Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer].

66. And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?"

67. Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayatin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.

69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allah).

70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.

71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.

72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).


ch52v34-38
34. Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful.

35. Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

36. Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief.

37. Or are with them the treasures of your Lord? Or are they the tyrants with the authority to do as they like?

38. Or have they a stairway (to heaven), by means of which they listen (to the talks of the angels)? Then let their listener produce some manifest proof.


analyze in context.

ending with the last one
ch16v4
4. He has created man from Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge), then behold, this same (man) becomes an open opponent.


in the long run Duane we both no the arabic language itself is very detailed and the english language cannot compare to it and translations may vary and so if a man translates the arabic into any language we could safely say it is not the true word of God but merely a translation for us to understand, because man i subjected to errors but the spoken word of God is the arabic text which we see, hear, recite today. all others are jus wat they are translations so we could grasp at a fair understanding of it

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby megadoc1 » April 26th, 2011, 11:25 pm

turbohead wrote:if you believe in trinity then you are a polygamist. please just clear that up.
not necessarily so , maybe you don't understand it but even if someone took the time to explain it to you, you wont accept it and in turn repeat the same statement again




turbohead wrote:one ting though my cousin who is a Jehovah witness said they dont believe in Trinity but still believe Christ is lord and saviour....
i wasnt quite sure want he meant and didnt want to indulge further as to cause commontion between us
what he meant is that Jehovah witnesses
believe that Jesus is a god along side Jehovah, they don't believe in the trinity because it is "pagan" but they believe in two gods
jesus is god and jehovah is almighty god also they say that Jesus is Michael the archangel
....some cool stufff

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 26th, 2011, 11:33 pm

^ real sarcasm there

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby megadoc1 » April 26th, 2011, 11:43 pm

^that is not joke eh

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 26th, 2011, 11:45 pm

turbohead wrote:firstly Duane you are a smart fellah an i don expect you to go off quoting single lines and casting contradictions as you need to look at the context in which the said verse was used. lets analyze of my little knowledge i have i will seek to improve on it further when i talk to me good friend.

the first verse ch96v2 refers to the clinging clot that attaches to the womb that forms into a leech like substance.

the second part from ch15 should have been stated like this.
25. And verily, your Lord will gather them together. Truly, He is All-Wise, All-Knowing.

26. And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

27. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.

28. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.

29. "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."


for the context of which it was used for the creation of Adam and the sense. which is fitting.
ch3v59-61
59. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.

61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad ) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie."


this is used to draw comparison of the creation of Adam and the birth of Jesus both miraculous. God is sayin he created from dust Adam and said 'be' and he was and with reference to another verse from surah maryam
35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is
the main point being the decree of Allah's will to create as he pleases and create Jesus in the most pure of ways as nothing is impossible for Allah. if He wanted he could have created millions of the likeness of Jesus but he chose to have him be unique.


ch19v65-72
65. Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer].

66. And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?"

67. Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayatin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.

69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allah).

70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.

71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.

72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).


ch52v34-38
34. Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful.

35. Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

36. Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief.

37. Or are with them the treasures of your Lord? Or are they the tyrants with the authority to do as they like?

38. Or have they a stairway (to heaven), by means of which they listen (to the talks of the angels)? Then let their listener produce some manifest proof.


analyze in context.

ending with the last one
ch16v4
4. He has created man from Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge), then behold, this same (man) becomes an open opponent.


in the long run Duane we both no the arabic language itself is very detailed and the english language cannot compare to it and translations may vary and so if a man translates the arabic into any language we could safely say it is not the true word of God but merely a translation for us to understand, because man i subjected to errors but the spoken word of God is the arabic text which we see, hear, recite today. all others are jus wat they are translations so we could grasp at a fair understanding of it
ok I see

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Humes » April 27th, 2011, 12:35 am

bluefete wrote:On another note: How is it that aliens (you know - those at Roswell Air Force Base) look so much like humans? 2 beady eyes, a nose, 2 hands, 2 legs.


Because they're man-made. The entities humans create generally have human characteristics.

Sound familiar?

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby QG » April 27th, 2011, 8:30 pm

In Islam talks about Jesus preparing way for the Comforter...My muslim bro also pointed out to me in the Bible book of John! The Word Comforter!

However in the bible it means Holy Spirit and in Islam it means Muhammad the Messenger.

2 Questions:
1. If in Islam teaches that Jesus (Esa) prepared the way for Muhammed then why doesn't the Islam follow the way of Jesus ALSO, since Allah self sent Jesus (In Islam belief)?

2. Why in Islam do they Pick and Choose what script from the Bible to be used since they believe that man corrupted or change the scripted text from the original version?

Let me explain Question 2 a little bit (yes i have learned a lot from Islam)... In Islam they don't believe in 4 books of the Bible...Book of Luke, Mathew, John, and Mark (correct me of the 4 if I am worng) since those four deciples are said not to be in time when Jesus walked the earth.
If in Islam you said that the Bible we have today is not from the original text then why use certain verse from the bible??

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby megadoc1 » April 27th, 2011, 9:48 pm

QG wrote:In Islam talks about Jesus preparing way for the Comforter...My muslim bro also pointed out to me in the Bible book of John! The Word Comforter!

However in the bible it means Holy Spirit and in Islam it means Muhammad the Messenger.

2 Questions:
1. If in Islam teaches that Jesus (Esa) prepared the way for Muhammed then why doesn't the Islam follow the way of Jesus ALSO, since Allah self sent Jesus (In Islam belief)?
because the Jesus in the quran and the Jesus in the bible are are not the same
one is the son of god ,one isnt the son of god ,one rise from the dead one didnt die...
if you look and compare for your self you would see many differences between the two

2. Why in Islam do they Pick and Choose what script from the Bible to be used since they believe that man corrupted or change the scripted text from the original version?
when I figure that one out myself I would be sure to tell you

Let me explain Question 2 a little bit (yes i have learned a lot from Islam)... In Islam they don't believe in 4 books of the Bible...Book of Luke, Mathew, John, and Mark (correct me of the 4 if I am worng) since those four deciples are said not to be in time when Jesus walked the earth. the quran says that it gave the gospels
Torah - "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).1
Psalms - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).
Gospel - "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).

If in Islam you said that the Bible we have today is not from the original text then why use certain verse from the bible?? because the bible becomes a stumbling block to the quran when a comparison is made, so its either you misquote it or brand it corupted

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Re: Your Best Encounter with God - Hawking's a Madman - Pg.

Postby Duane 3NE 2NR » April 27th, 2011, 10:11 pm

megadoc1 wrote:because the Jesus in the quran and the Jesus in the bible are are not the same
one is the son of god ,one isnt the son of god ,one rise from the dead one didnt die...
if you look and compare for your self you would see many differences between the two
but they both were born by virgin birth from a mother named Mary who was visited by the angel Gabriel who told her of the impending miracle. They both performed miracles.

there was more than one Jesus and Mary?

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