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Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?
God made Adam a big man didn't he?
So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?
nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method
why would God make the earth appear older?
beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?
His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old
the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right
but he instead makes it look like the book
is lying when tested with scientific methods? He on games orrr?
because of your misconception that the bible states the age of the earth
you would have no choice but to arrive at such
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Ok so explain this: an object in space that is 100 million lightyears away, we are seeing that object as it was 100 million years ago because it took the light 100 million years to get to us. If the universe is ~6000 years old, how then can that object be over 100 million years old?
this is absolutely proven by the way - the sun is ~8 light minutes away from us
I will get back to you on this
there is no empirical evidence that Adam even existed - using that as an answer is circular logic.megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?
God made Adam a big man didn't he?
orly? do you have something more accurate?megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?
nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method
circular logic againmegadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:why would God make the earth appear older?
beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?
that is why I used the ~ symbol to show approximation.megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote: His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old
the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right
bluefete wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?
So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?
why would God make the earth appear older? His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old but he instead makes it look like the book is lying when tested with scientific methods? He on games orrr?
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Ok so explain this: an object in space that is 100 million lightyears away, we are seeing that object as it was 100 million years ago because it took the light 100 million years to get to us. If the universe is ~6000 years old, how then can that object be over 100 million years old?
this is absolutely proven by the way - the sun is ~8 light minutes away from us
In an expanding universe where things are moving AWAY from each other, it is possible for some objects to be more distant than others.
However, the measurements that scientists use are meant to bring our thoughts into one direction to maintain some kind of scientific harmony. Thus the numericalities of hundreds of millions and billions of years.
With an [b]infinite Creator however, measurement of space-time from our puny perspective is something we may never truly understand.
6,000 odd years may seem short but is long enough for a speeded up evolutionary process. Go look at Star Trek 3 - The Search for Spock.[/b]
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:did you just use Star Trek to explain why what the Bible says is right?bluefete wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?
So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?
why would God make the earth appear older? His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old but he instead makes it look like the book is lying when tested with scientific methods? He on games orrr?
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Ok so explain this: an object in space that is 100 million lightyears away, we are seeing that object as it was 100 million years ago because it took the light 100 million years to get to us. If the universe is ~6000 years old, how then can that object be over 100 million years old?
this is absolutely proven by the way - the sun is ~8 light minutes away from us
In an expanding universe where things are moving AWAY from each other, it is possible for some objects to be more distant than others.
However, the measurements that scientists use are meant to bring our thoughts into one direction to maintain some kind of scientific harmony. Thus the numericalities of hundreds of millions and billions of years.
With an infinite Creator however, measurement of space-time from our puny perspective is something we may never truly understand.
6,000 odd years may seem short but is long enough for a speeded up evolutionary process. Go look at Star Trek 3 - The Search for Spock.
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:but that is the same circular logic
just like this image I posted many times before in this thread
this was also asked in here, but I would like to hear your take on it turbohead: did Adam have a belly button?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:there is no empirical evidence that Adam even existed - using that as an answer is circular logic.megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?
God made Adam a big man didn't he?
That's like someone saying he can make you rich by claiming he made other people rich, but the other people are not around.orly? do you have something more accurate?megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?
nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
hundreds of tests have been done using items where the age was known and the radiocarbon dating process was accurate. Granted that the accuracy may fall off when dealing with millions or billions of years but it still shows the age of the earth as being billions of years old.circular logic againmegadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:why would God make the earth appear older?
beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?that is why I used the ~ symbol to show approximation.megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote: His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old
the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right
Earlier on in this thread you or bluefete had posted that was the calculated age of the earth based on the bible. But lets say I'm wrong; what is the age of the earth based on the bible account?
Oh and don't side step the question by claiming that such things are unimportant in praising God. You take His book very literally, so this is a pertinent question.
turbohead wrote:your along the correct lines but you guys still get me tied up at the Trinity cross roads. if you are monotheist i agree if you believe in trinity then you are a polygamist. please just clear that up. one ting though my cousin who is a Jehovah witness said they dont believe in Trinity but still believe Christ is lord and saviour.... i wasnt quite sure want he meant and didnt want to indulge further as to cause commontion between us.
bluefete wrote:On another note: How is it that aliens (you know - those at Roswell Air Force Base) look so much like humans? 2 beady eyes, a nose, 2 hands, 2 legs.
Seems to me that these aliens certainly make the case for a Creator.
Or is it that natural selection is also a randomly occurring process on Seti Alpha VI?
the earth is NOT one of the oldest thing in the universe! The moon is younger than the earth but the sun is far older then the earth based on how stars and planetary systems are formed.bluefete wrote:
Scientists say that the earth is 4.5 billion years old. Yet people have not been around for that long. This makes it one of the oldest things in the universe. It falls quite in line with the Genesis description in Ch 1 verses 1 & 2 which mentions the existence of the earth before the sun and moon as we know them to be.
bluefete wrote:turbohead wrote:your along the correct lines but you guys still get me tied up at the Trinity cross roads. if you are monotheist i agree if you believe in trinity then you are a polygamist. please just clear that up. one ting though my cousin who is a Jehovah witness said they dont believe in Trinity but still believe Christ is lord and saviour.... i wasnt quite sure want he meant and didnt want to indulge further as to cause commontion between us.
Christianity teaches about the three FORMS of the one God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
Islam teaches about one, undivided God.
Being a polygamist on the other hand means I believe in may Gods. This I do not.
What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape, (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:there is no empirical evidence that Adam even existed - using that as an answer is circular logic.megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:what? you are saying that the earth IS 6000 years old but God made it to LOOK older?
God made Adam a big man didn't he?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:That's like someone saying he can make you rich by claiming he made other people rich, but the other people are not around.
megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:So the carbon dating that scientists do that show the earth is billions of years old is because God made the carbon dating appear as if it was older?
nope .... wait!! this carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' method
i said it before and i'll say it again carbon dating isn't an 'absolute' methodDuane 3NE 2NR wrote:orly? do you have something more accurate?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating
hundreds of tests have been done using items where the age was known and the radiocarbon dating process was accurate. Granted that the accuracy may fall off when dealing with millions or billions of years but it still shows the age of the earth as being billions of years old.
it would be a valid question if you were asking itDuane 3NE 2NR wrote:circular logic againmegadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:why would God make the earth appear older?
beats me why didnt he make adam a baby?
I do not knowDuane 3NE 2NR wrote:that is why I used the ~ symbol to show approximation.megadoc1 wrote:Duane 3NE 2NR wrote: His holy book states that it is ~6000 years old
the bible never states the age of the earth get you facts right
Earlier on in this thread you or bluefete had posted that was the calculated age of the earth based on the bible. But lets say I'm wrong; what is the age of the earth based on the bible account?
Duane 3NE 2NR wrote:Oh and don't side step the question by claiming that such things are unimportant in praising God. You take His book very literally, so this is a pertinent question.
25. And verily, your Lord will gather them together. Truly, He is All-Wise, All-Knowing.
26. And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.
27. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.
28. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.
29. "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."
59. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.
60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.
61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad ) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie."
the main point being the decree of Allah's will to create as he pleases and create Jesus in the most pure of ways as nothing is impossible for Allah. if He wanted he could have created millions of the likeness of Jesus but he chose to have him be unique.35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is
65. Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer].
66. And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?"
67. Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?
68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayatin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.
69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allah).
70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.
71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.
72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).
34. Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful.
35. Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
36. Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief.
37. Or are with them the treasures of your Lord? Or are they the tyrants with the authority to do as they like?
38. Or have they a stairway (to heaven), by means of which they listen (to the talks of the angels)? Then let their listener produce some manifest proof.
4. He has created man from Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge), then behold, this same (man) becomes an open opponent.
not necessarily so , maybe you don't understand it but even if someone took the time to explain it to you, you wont accept it and in turn repeat the same statement againturbohead wrote:if you believe in trinity then you are a polygamist. please just clear that up.
what he meant is that Jehovah witnessesturbohead wrote:one ting though my cousin who is a Jehovah witness said they dont believe in Trinity but still believe Christ is lord and saviour....
i wasnt quite sure want he meant and didnt want to indulge further as to cause commontion between us
ok I seeturbohead wrote:firstly Duane you are a smart fellah an i don expect you to go off quoting single lines and casting contradictions as you need to look at the context in which the said verse was used. lets analyze of my little knowledge i have i will seek to improve on it further when i talk to me good friend.
the first verse ch96v2 refers to the clinging clot that attaches to the womb that forms into a leech like substance.
the second part from ch15 should have been stated like this.25. And verily, your Lord will gather them together. Truly, He is All-Wise, All-Knowing.
26. And indeed, We created man from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.
27. And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.
28. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "I am going to create a man (Adam) from sounding clay of altered black smooth mud.
29. "So, when I have fashioned him completely and breathed into him (Adam) the soul which I created for him, then fall (you) down prostrating yourselves unto him."
for the context of which it was used for the creation of Adam and the sense. which is fitting.
ch3v59-6159. Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allah is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.
60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of those who doubt.
61. Then whoever disputes with you concerning him ['Iesa (Jesus)] after (all this) knowledge that has come to you, [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus)] being a slave of Allah, and having no share in Divinity) say: (O Muhammad ) "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves - then we pray and invoke (sincerely) the Curse of Allah upon those who lie."
this is used to draw comparison of the creation of Adam and the birth of Jesus both miraculous. God is sayin he created from dust Adam and said 'be' and he was and with reference to another verse from surah maryamthe main point being the decree of Allah's will to create as he pleases and create Jesus in the most pure of ways as nothing is impossible for Allah. if He wanted he could have created millions of the likeness of Jesus but he chose to have him be unique.35. It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allah, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allah]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is
ch19v65-7265. Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer].
66. And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?"
67. Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?
68. So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayatin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.
69. Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allah).
70. Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.
71. There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.
72. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).
ch52v34-3834. Let them then produce a recital like unto it (the Qur'an) if they are truthful.
35. Were they created by nothing, or were they themselves the creators?
36. Or did they create the heavens and the earth? Nay, but they have no firm Belief.
37. Or are with them the treasures of your Lord? Or are they the tyrants with the authority to do as they like?
38. Or have they a stairway (to heaven), by means of which they listen (to the talks of the angels)? Then let their listener produce some manifest proof.
analyze in context.
ending with the last one
ch16v44. He has created man from Nutfah (mixed drops of male and female sexual discharge), then behold, this same (man) becomes an open opponent.
in the long run Duane we both no the arabic language itself is very detailed and the english language cannot compare to it and translations may vary and so if a man translates the arabic into any language we could safely say it is not the true word of God but merely a translation for us to understand, because man i subjected to errors but the spoken word of God is the arabic text which we see, hear, recite today. all others are jus wat they are translations so we could grasp at a fair understanding of it
bluefete wrote:On another note: How is it that aliens (you know - those at Roswell Air Force Base) look so much like humans? 2 beady eyes, a nose, 2 hands, 2 legs.
QG wrote:In Islam talks about Jesus preparing way for the Comforter...My muslim bro also pointed out to me in the Bible book of John! The Word Comforter!
However in the bible it means Holy Spirit and in Islam it means Muhammad the Messenger.
2 Questions:
1. If in Islam teaches that Jesus (Esa) prepared the way for Muhammed then why doesn't the Islam follow the way of Jesus ALSO, since Allah self sent Jesus (In Islam belief)?
because the Jesus in the quran and the Jesus in the bible are are not the same
one is the son of god ,one isnt the son of god ,one rise from the dead one didnt die...
if you look and compare for your self you would see many differences between the two
2. Why in Islam do they Pick and Choose what script from the Bible to be used since they believe that man corrupted or change the scripted text from the original version?
when I figure that one out myself I would be sure to tell you
Let me explain Question 2 a little bit (yes i have learned a lot from Islam)... In Islam they don't believe in 4 books of the Bible...Book of Luke, Mathew, John, and Mark (correct me of the 4 if I am worng) since those four deciples are said not to be in time when Jesus walked the earth. the quran says that it gave the gospelsTorah - "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers," (Sura 2:87).1
Psalms - "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms," (4:163).
Gospel - "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)," (3:3).
Also, "And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah," (5:46).
If in Islam you said that the Bible we have today is not from the original text then why use certain verse from the bible?? because the bible becomes a stumbling block to the quran when a comparison is made, so its either you misquote it or brand it corupted
but they both were born by virgin birth from a mother named Mary who was visited by the angel Gabriel who told her of the impending miracle. They both performed miracles.megadoc1 wrote:because the Jesus in the quran and the Jesus in the bible are are not the same
one is the son of god ,one isnt the son of god ,one rise from the dead one didnt die...
if you look and compare for your self you would see many differences between the two
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