The Religion Discussion

[toyo682]

^ each comment there contradicts the one above it.
There is a demon that was in you that you expelled, and then you say evil is not out there but in each of us. So evil, is it a person or a thing?

Removing evil from our hearts has nothing to do with removing free will.It was free will that got us into this mess wasn't it? Or did God put sin in us? I can teach my child to be good and still give him free will do do as he/she pleases. Their deeds will be good ones once thought properly.So you are saying in the beginning God failed as a teacher? Did he fail to teach man how to do good properly, is that why we have become evil?

You said God created everything, including the demon? I did?
So God is not all love? Nope, he is loving. You love your child does that make you love? Love is an attribute of God.

If it is true that religion is man made then God is no more moral than we are! So God is now a figment of our imagination?

[toyo682]

Ron Meade wrote that for people who have blind faith.
I don't consider my faith blind, as I have said before my faith has been proven by my experiences, but I know you will say I don't have proof, sorry I was not thinking to take a picture of a demon while he was being expelled to prove to you he exist and that my experience happened.I saw something similar, but it was in a temple, with a pundit. He was able to put out the 'demon'. Do you now have faith in the Hindu religion now? I would try to explain authority and the division of the demonic kingdom, but it will make no sense. By the way was it was simple as saying in the name of Jesus come out?
How is God dealing with evil in a progressive way when the world seems to be getting more and more evil everyday?Not the world but people, because they continue to reject God. You seem to think that evil is out there. We each contribute to the evil in the world in some way, myself included.So whats ur point please? Arent ppl getting more and more evil? How is being progressivly dealt with?God will deal with it in his time. One day all evil will be wiped out. Everyday people are giving their lives for God.
Why would God, in making evil cease to exist, make all humanity go up in a puff of smoke, instead of simply removing all evil from our hearts at this moment? This would preserve all of humanity, and strike out all evil. That would also mean that God would have to take away free will. Or are you saying that God put sin into man to begin with and the introduction of sin into the world was of God and not man?
Is illogical thinking a prerequisite of blind faith? Until you understand all of who God is you would not understand what we speak of. You see God as only being loving. Maybe because it helps you to deal with your sin without actually turning away from it, because you seem to believe that God loves you so much he will simply over look your sin."Until you understand all of who God is "??? U serious?? U understand god?? God not so complicated then?Nope

Ron Meade, like megadoc1 and Toyo seem bent on proving to smart people that God is irrational. You seem to want to prove he is more loving than he is holy or just or righteous which are all attributes of God. Are you saying that because you love your child you would not punish them. If we are called to love as you say in a rational way, that God should over look sin, then should we not do the same when our laws are broken. Once again I ask are we more moral than God.

Just when I thought that megaduck was the only brainless person in here....[/quote]So I am brainless because what I speak differs from what you know?

[Sky]

I want to start a fund. Donations will be accepted over time and this money will grow. Hopefully it'll be a sizable amount. When this thread reaches page 666 the collected funds will be paid to a mod or Duane. Whoever will take the payment to lock this thread on page 666. This way we will cement the meaning of the word irony. Who's in?

[d spike]

But i was once told, even if there is a standpipe within the vicinity (can't remember what the exact distance was) of a residence, that does not have a water connection - this is still grounds to pay water rate

You're quite right, and that was called "standpipe rate" (can't remember the distance either ) payable by "waterless" (:lol: ) citizens living within the specified distance from a standpipe.

[d spike]

Ron Meade wrote that for people who have blind faith.
I don't consider my faith blind, as I have said before my faith has been proven by my experiences, but I know you will say I don't have proof, sorry I was not thinking to take a picture of a demon while he was being expelled to prove to you he exist and that my experience happened.
How is God dealing with evil in a progressive way when the world seems to be getting more and more evil everyday?Not the world but people, because they continue to reject God. You seem to think that evil is out there. We each contribute to the evil in the world in some way, myself included.
Why would God, in making evil cease to exist, make all humanity go up in a puff of smoke, instead of simply removing all evil from our hearts at this moment? This would preserve all of humanity, and strike out all evil. That would also mean that God would have to take away free will. Or are you saying that God put sin into man to begin with and the introduction of sin into the world was of God and not man?
Is illogical thinking a prerequisite of blind faith? Until you understand all of who God is you would not understand what we speak of. You see God as only being loving. Maybe because it helps you to deal with your sin without actually turning away from it, because you seem to believe that God loves you so much he will simply over look your sin.

Ron Meade, like megadoc1 and Toyo seem bent on proving to smart people that God is irrational. You seem to want to prove he is more loving than he is holy or just or righteous which are all attributes of God. Are you saying that because you love your child you would not punish them. If we are called to love as you say in a rational way, that God should over look sin, then should we not do the same when our laws are broken. Once again I ask are we more moral than God.

Good grief.
I was actually going to commend Toyo for that post containing Ron Meade's quote... it was well written (I agreed with most of it )... but then I realised that he had just cut n' stuck something from somewhere... megadoc/Bluefete style thing, giving no explanation, opinion, reason...
So commending him for pasting up something, would be just the same as commending megadoc for pasting up reams of scripture or rot from some godfreaksR'us site... so I decided to sit back and see what fruits it would bear...
Good decision.
Lo and behold, Duane writes a response (I might point out that I didn't agree with all that he said) that triggered a remarkably irrational set of knee-jerking by Toyo (post quoted above). That was certainly how not to answer those comments... neither was it a demonstration of educated maturity.

Toyo, my "2 cents" of advice is for you to claim that some "little brother" was playing with your PC... and then write a far better response to Duane that would reflect your claimed educational background.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

So evil, is it a person or a thing?

supposing it is something that religions have created for us to fear, just like Hell. In your great wisdom, what is evil?

It was free will that got us into this mess wasn't it? Or did God put sin in us?

Who gave us free will? God made Adam and Eve, totally and completely the way they were, according to you.

So you are saying in the beginning God failed as a teacher? Did he fail to teach man how to do good properly, is that why we have become evil?

I should be asking you that! Adam and Eve didnt have the Bible, or even the old testament or even the 10 commandments to live by.

You said God created everything, including the demon? I did?

Yes you did in stating that God created everythign in the universe, if not then who created the demon?

So God is not all love? Nope, he is loving. You love your child does that make you love? Love is an attribute of God.

We are not God, why would you compare us? The opposite of love is hate, can God hate?

Someone said earlier in this thread that darkness is the absence of light, and so evil is the absence of God - this would allude to God being all good.

So God is now a figment of our imagination?

The one you describe seems to be a figment of yours!

[toyo682]

Ron Meade wrote that for people who have blind faith.
I don't consider my faith blind, as I have said before my faith has been proven by my experiences, but I know you will say I don't have proof, sorry I was not thinking to take a picture of a demon while he was being expelled to prove to you he exist and that my experience happened.
How is God dealing with evil in a progressive way when the world seems to be getting more and more evil everyday?Not the world but people, because they continue to reject God. You seem to think that evil is out there. We each contribute to the evil in the world in some way, myself included.
Why would God, in making evil cease to exist, make all humanity go up in a puff of smoke, instead of simply removing all evil from our hearts at this moment? This would preserve all of humanity, and strike out all evil. That would also mean that God would have to take away free will. Or are you saying that God put sin into man to begin with and the introduction of sin into the world was of God and not man?
Is illogical thinking a prerequisite of blind faith? Until you understand all of who God is you would not understand what we speak of. You see God as only being loving. Maybe because it helps you to deal with your sin without actually turning away from it, because you seem to believe that God loves you so much he will simply over look your sin.

Ron Meade, like megadoc1 and Toyo seem bent on proving to smart people that God is irrational. You seem to want to prove he is more loving than he is holy or just or righteous which are all attributes of God. Are you saying that because you love your child you would not punish them. If we are called to love as you say in a rational way, that God should over look sin, then should we not do the same when our laws are broken. Once again I ask are we more moral than God.

Good grief.
I was actually going to commend Toyo for that post containing Ron Meade's quote... it was well written (I agreed with most of it )... but then I realised that he had just cut n' stuck something from somewhere... megadoc/Bluefete style thing, giving no explanation, opinion, reason...
So commending him for pasting up something, would be just the same as commending megadoc for pasting up reams of scripture or rot from some godfreaksR'us site... so I decided to sit back and see what fruits it would bear...
Good decision.
Lo and behold, Duane writes a response (I might point out that I didn't agree with all that he said) that triggered a remarkably irrational set of knee-jerking by Toyo (post quoted above). That was certainly how not to answer those comments... neither was it a demonstration of educated maturity.

Toyo, my "2 cents" of advice is for you to claim that some "little brother" was playing with your PC... and then write a far better response to Duane that would reflect your claimed educational background.

I wish I could make such a claim, considering what you have said, note taken.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Until you understand all of who God is you would not understand what we speak of.

and so you understand all of who God is?

because you seem to believe that God loves you so much he will simply over look your sin.

what I believe is irrelevant, the discussion here is about what YOU believe.

Oh and please give an example or evidence of how God is dealing with evil in a progressive way

[megadoc1]

what I believe is irrelevant, the discussion here is about what YOU believe.

[sMASH]

god created heaven and hell,,,and the inhabitants of both!

he created the forbidden fruit, which was unimportant. the act of disobedience for eating the fruit was instrumental in humans realizing their ability of choice. when they did choose to disobey, they were shown that it was not beneficial to them but well withing their rights and abilities to do so. they begged forgiveness for making a mistake (not committing grievous sin) and forgiven.

we do not have free will,,,,, we have free choice.

if i had free will, i would have willed that i do not need to work.

from god we come, and to god is our eventual return.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

what I believe is irrelevant, the discussion here is about what YOU believe.

show me where are discussing what I believe

yuh laughing, you have any proof to your claims to show here yet? No?

[toyo682]

So evil, is it a person or a thing?

supposing it is something that religions have created for us to fear, just like Hell. In your great wisdom, what is evil?My great wisdom thinks I should think about it to answer properly this broad topic.

It was free will that got us into this mess wasn't it? Or did God put sin in us?

Who gave us free will? God made Adam and Eve, totally and completely the way they were, according to you.

While this is so, God did not make them with sin. To do so will say that God himself is the author of sin. We know that God is good and in him is no evil. In you last post about teaching a child to do good, you stated that they would not depart from such if one had done a good job in teaching them. The fact that you have taught them does not guarantee that they will always do what they have been taught. One has to factor into that equation external pressures, what one is left with is a hope that they will not depart from their good teaching once exposed to things that go against what they have been taught. Thus adding this to the fact that it is their ability to choose and because you have allowed them this freedom you cannot make the choice for them, as hard as it may be. Further more one can only hope that if they do depart they will one day return to what they have been taught. Sometimes because of the love of a parent, they make a way which is easy for them to turn back if they so desire.

So you are saying in the beginning God failed as a teacher? Did he fail to teach man how to do good properly, is that why we have become evil?

I should be asking you that! Adam and Eve didnt have the Bible, or even the old testament or even the 10 commandments to live by.
We should envy them for this. Where there is no law there can be no crime/sin. Sometimes laws are created after the fact to help prevent certain things or injustices from reoccurring. Adam and Eve were only given one command to follow, "you see that tree over there, don't eat from it". Why would God give Adam a law against looking at other women, with sexual intent (Adultery) if they were the only two people on the earth. Such a law would not make sense.

You said God created everything, including the demon? I did?

Yes you did in stating that God created everythign in the universe, if not then who created the demon?The Bible says that everything God created was good. While it is true that God did create what we now know to be demons, God did not create anything called a demon from the beginning. What God created were angels who were good, but it would seem according to scripture that they had freewill, thus Satan created as a beautiful angel was able to rebel against God and thus we are not left with what we call demons.

So God is not all love? Nope, he is loving. You love your child does that make you love? Love is an attribute of God.

We are not God, why would you compare us? The opposite of love is hate, can God hate?Yes it is possible for God to hate. It has been stated many times in scripture. But to address this, the opposite of love in not hate. In fact one could argue that it is apathy. However you are assuming that hate is an evil emotion. This would make hate for such things crime and injustice, evil.

Someone said earlier in this thread that darkness is the absence of light, and so evil is the absence of God -I wish that I could agree with this but darkness is not the absence of light. It is night here in good ole TnT does that mean that light no longer exist in the world. We know better don't we. The presence of evil does not mean the absence of God. In an everyday example, there are many bad people in the world. But there are many good people who coexist on the earth at the same time. To make such a statement one would have to say that the presence of men like Hitler in human history means the absence of people like mother Teresa.

So God is now a figment of our imagination?

The one you describe seems to be a figment of yours!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ thats nice. We can conceive and bear our children, we do not get to design them from scratch.

how is it you claim God is beyond human limits, yet limit him to a very human "parent / child" analogy when describing his actions.

Why did God create these things good knowing they could go bad?

Looking at it now it would seem that the whole thing just slipped away from what God had intended.

Where there is no law there can be no crime

this "logic" is rather intriguing and quite telling of you

[toyo682]

Where there is no law there can be no crime

this "logic" is rather intriguing and quite telling of you

Not quite so...please do not assume to know me.

[toyo682]

how is it you claim God is beyond human limits, yet limit him to a very human "parent / child" analogy when describing his actions.

The great paradox that will continue to elude many, how could God be so complex yet so simple.

[toyo682]

Oh and please give an example or evidence of how God is dealing with evil in a progressive way

I would have to say the preaching of the Gospel. Those who hear and respond truly, turn from their evil ways. The things I use to do I do them no more, the things I use to say I say them no more, the places I use to go I go them no more....

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Where there is no law there can be no crime

this "logic" is rather intriguing and quite telling of you

Not quite so...please do not assume to know me.

more "logic"?

The great paradox that will continue to elude many, how could God be so complex yet so simple.

is "Cop-Out 101" part of your syllabus when you got your theological degree?

[toyo682]

Where there is no law there can be no crime

this "logic" is rather intriguing and quite telling of you

Not quite so...please do not assume to know me.

more "logic"?

you asking or telling?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

Where there is no law there can be no crime

this "logic" is rather intriguing and quite telling of you

Not quite so...please do not assume to know me.

more "logic"?

you asking or telling?

a question mark is used to punctuate at the end of a question

[toyo682]

more "logic"?

you asking or telling?

a question mark is used to punctuate at the end of a question

It is a question hence the question mark. Are you asking me if it is more logic or telling me it is more logic?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ what?

Oh and please give an example or evidence of how God is dealing with evil in a progressive way

I would have to say the preaching of the Gospel. Those who hear and respond truly, turn from their evil ways. The things I use to do I do them no more, the things I use to say I say them no more, the places I use to go I go them no more....

So you are saying that you personally following the gospel is evidence of God's progress in dealing with evil?

I sense a swollen ego from your last set of posts, but I will not make any accusations.

Islam is often mentioned as the fastest growing religion because of the number of people in recent times who are converting (or reverting as Muslims say) to Islam.

Christianity still has the largest following, however MOST Christians do not follow your neo-christian beliefs, instead they follow more orthodox Christian beliefs as Roman Catholics, Anglicans and Presbyterians, the other groups are SDA and JW who also do not share all your beliefs. The Roman Catholics still make up the largest group of Christians in the world and you have condemned their beliefs. So if your specific beliefs as you stated in this thread are the true ones, then having you in a minority is no sign of great progress.

[megadoc1]

^ what?

Oh and please give an example or evidence of how God is dealing with evil in a progressive way

I would have to say the preaching of the Gospel. Those who hear and respond truly, turn from their evil ways. The things I use to do I do them no more, the things I use to say I say them no more, the places I use to go I go them no more....

So you are saying that you personally following the gospel is evidence of God's progress in dealing with evil?

I sense a swollen ego from your last set of posts, but I will not make any accusations.

Islam is often mentioned as the fastest growing religion because of the number of people in recent times who are converting (or reverting as Muslims say) to Islam.

Christianity still has the largest following, however MOST Christians do not follow your neo-christian beliefs, instead they follow more orthodox Christian beliefs as Roman Catholics, Anglicans and Presbyterians, the other groups are SDA and JW who also do not share all your beliefs. The Roman Catholics still make up the largest group of Christians in the world and you have condemned their beliefs. So if your specific beliefs as you stated in this thread are the true ones, then having you in a minority is no sign of great progress.

it is not about what you follow but who you follow take a look at this if you compared what you said with what
the bible says then toyo682 is on the right track after all
Matthew 7
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Jesus says he is the gate
John 10
9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

[sMASH]

statistically speaking, god created man to go to hell?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ interesting point sMash

^ what?

Oh and please give an example or evidence of how God is dealing with evil in a progressive way

I would have to say the preaching of the Gospel. Those who hear and respond truly, turn from their evil ways. The things I use to do I do them no more, the things I use to say I say them no more, the places I use to go I go them no more....

So you are saying that you personally following the gospel is evidence of God's progress in dealing with evil?

I sense a swollen ego from your last set of posts, but I will not make any accusations.

Islam is often mentioned as the fastest growing religion because of the number of people in recent times who are converting (or reverting as Muslims say) to Islam.

Christianity still has the largest following, however MOST Christians do not follow your neo-christian beliefs, instead they follow more orthodox Christian beliefs as Roman Catholics, Anglicans and Presbyterians, the other groups are SDA and JW who also do not share all your beliefs. The Roman Catholics still make up the largest group of Christians in the world and you have condemned their beliefs. So if your specific beliefs as you stated in this thread are the true ones, then having you in a minority is no sign of great progress.

it is not about what you follow but who you follow take a look at this if you compared what you said with what
the bible says then toyo682 is on the right track after all
Matthew 7
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Jesus says he is the gate
John 10
9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

you come back with this circular logic again?

You and Toyo have condemned Catholics of following Jesus incorrectly, where is the evidence that says you are following him correctly and catholics are following him incorrectly?

still nothing supporting his claim either that God is making progress against evil.

[megadoc1]

statistically speaking, god created man to go to hell?

c'mon smash you really think that made sense? why do we always need to remind you how/why man reach the state he is in?
why should we keep reminding you that hell was created for Satan and his followers?
men goes to hell for rejecting or rebelling against God (sin)
however he so loves us that he made a way for us to escape it (hell)is either we accept or reject it
anyways God desires all men to be saved


if you want to know what is God's will look here
John 6 -37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

if you want to know what works you must do to enter heaven look here
John 6-28
28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"

29Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ the only problem is that your way to escape hell and sMash way are different, why is your way is right and his way is wrong?

[megadoc1]

^ interesting point sMash

^ what?

Oh and please give an example or evidence of how God is dealing with evil in a progressive way

I would have to say the preaching of the Gospel. Those who hear and respond truly, turn from their evil ways. The things I use to do I do them no more, the things I use to say I say them no more, the places I use to go I go them no more....

So you are saying that you personally following the gospel is evidence of God's progress in dealing with evil?

I sense a swollen ego from your last set of posts, but I will not make any accusations.

Islam is often mentioned as the fastest growing religion because of the number of people in recent times who are converting (or reverting as Muslims say) to Islam.

Christianity still has the largest following, however MOST Christians do not follow your neo-christian beliefs, instead they follow more orthodox Christian beliefs as Roman Catholics, Anglicans and Presbyterians, the other groups are SDA and JW who also do not share all your beliefs. The Roman Catholics still make up the largest group of Christians in the world and you have condemned their beliefs. So if your specific beliefs as you stated in this thread are the true ones, then having you in a minority is no sign of great progress.

it is not about what you follow but who you follow take a look at this if you compared what you said with what
the bible says then toyo682 is on the right track after all
Matthew 7
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Jesus says he is the gate
John 10
9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

you come back with this circular logic again? whatever Jesus say I believe do you have a problem with that?

You and Toyo have condemned Catholics of following Jesus incorrectly, where is the evidence that says you are following him correctly and catholics are following him incorrectly?why not do your own research? that way you can refute what we said

still nothing supporting his claim either that God is making progress against evil.
God did it on the cross, now its for us to do the rest, that is to reject sin and turn from it and allow him to sanctify us
the only way one can do that is thru faith in Jesus Christ
our faith in Jesus gives us power over sin and everything that is of the kingdom of darkness, as long as you don't have Jesus you are a slave to sin.
so this is why we preach the gospel... every soul that repents and turn from sin and every demon cast out and every curse broken and every sick healed and every lie exposed and pulled down
is progress against evil...

[megadoc1]

^ the only problem is that your way to escape hell and sMash way are different, why is your way is right and his way is wrong?

first I don't have a way ,it is Jesus who made a way and it is he I am following
if anyone want to have their own way or think there are other ways
let them go right ahead I heard the gospel, they heard the gospel
I choose to believe and follow Jesus, they chose what they want
I believe whatever Jesus said and I am acting on what I believe,
whenever or every time I acted on what I believe Jesus said ,I saw that Jesus is faithful and true
so concerning anyone who does not follow him I would not advise then to take those chances

[sMASH]

nope u are wrong, jesus (pbuh) did not say that belief in him was the way to salvation , who did say so were people who heard about a man name john, and heard about a man name mark and heard about a man name matt, and a fellar name paul and et al, etc. apparently u reading the wrong book.

and i said STATISTICALLY, according to u. u said the gate to hell wider than the gate to heaven, so i interpret that to mean that more people will go to hell than heaven, did u mean that?

when ah police man reach by ur house an say 'i am de law!' dat mean dat he has all the chapters and subsections in his genes, and if u kill him it would not have no more law. and following what ever he says is being lawful, because he is the law, even if he taking protection tax from u.

no, when he says that he is the law, it means that he is representing the law, and he carries out duties to uphold it, and is also subjected to it, i.e. not above it. he would have no power to prevent u from prosecution if u are in transgression, nor cannot make any act in violation of the law lawful.

allyuh eh know how metaphorical those people used to speak in those times. like when ah man was asked to work for 8 years, then at the 8 year mark, he was asked to work 2 more years, and he was reported that he worked a perfect and complete term. this meaning 10 years in all...

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

whatever Jesus say I believe do you have a problem with that?

wait after all of this, that is the answer you resort to? What was the point in all your argument for the past 200 pages then?

why not do your own research? that way you can refute what we said

I did my research, it shows there are over 1 billion catholics in the world today who follow this "wrong" way as you claim and I brought up that point because Toyo said God was making progress in dealing with evil claiming more and more people are converting to what Toyo said was the correct way to salvation. I am making the point that the numbers and statistics do no show what he claims.

God did it on the cross, now its for us to do the rest, that is to reject sin and turn from it and allow him to sanctify us
the only way one can do that is thru faith in Jesus Christ
our faith in Jesus gives us power over sin and everything that is of the kingdom of darkness, as long as you don't have Jesus you are a slave to sin.
so this is why we preach the gospel... every soul that repents and turn from sin and every demon cast out and every curse broken and every sick healed and every lie exposed and pulled down
is progress against evil...

kinda hard to prove something is a lie or something is the truth when you have to proof or evidence though

do you think your posts for the past 200 pages have helped to make any progress in here? Has anyone repented from it?