Sedition Act Prevails: Sat loss: Duke's case dismissed

[zoom rader]

The next thing you know is that the PNM will come for all of us posters on this forum. Starting with Zoomie.

Let me tell Rowley and company now - Eff off.

It have men on here that like to give talk but cant handle when you respond back.

[zoom rader]

Tonton macoutes locking yuh up for talking yes! What part of that seditious?

The man tell the PNM prime Minster he mouth stink . Two ah we boys.

[hydroep]

Like Growlers learned a thing or two when he went over to visit Maduro yes...

[redmanjp]

well it seems according to that law a lot of tuners could get charge for things said here! most of those clauses except for the ones that deal with inciting violence or illegal activity should be declared unconstitutional as it's so broad that any statement criticising the Govt is illegal

[zoom rader]

well it seems according to that law a lot of tuners could get charge for things said here! most of those clauses except for the ones that deal with inciting violence or illegal activity should be declared unconstitutional as it's so broad that any statement criticising the Govt is illegal

What if tuners live abroad

[redmanjp]

well it seems according to that law a lot of tuners could get charge for things said here! most of those clauses except for the ones that deal with inciting violence or illegal activity should be declared unconstitutional as it's so broad that any statement criticising the Govt is illegal

What if tuners live abroad

hmm, good point. perhaps we should use VPNs from now on? they wouldn't know the difference

[88sins]

well it seems according to that law a lot of tuners could get charge for things said here! most of those clauses except for the ones that deal with inciting violence or illegal activity should be declared unconstitutional as it's so broad that any statement criticising the Govt is illegal

That's not by happenstance, and it's not about to change either.
History has proven that filthy crooked politicians absolutely love extremely broad and vague legislation.

think what you will about that.

[zoom rader]

well it seems according to that law a lot of tuners could get charge for things said here! most of those clauses except for the ones that deal with inciting violence or illegal activity should be declared unconstitutional as it's so broad that any statement criticising the Govt is illegal

What if tuners live abroad

hmm, good point. perhaps we should use VPNs from now on? they wouldn't know the difference

Tuner have SIA links

Some men or cowards as i call them can't handle talk

[The_Honourable]

TTPS controlled

[paid_influencer]

Heath said if charge/s are to be laid on his client it would hinge on state­ments he made on No­vem­ber 16, 2018.

Re­act­ing to job lay­offs at TSTT and a state­ment by the Com­mu­ni­ca­tion Work­ers Union that job cuts could al­so be ex­pect­ed at T&TEC and WASA, Duke said then: “We must be pre­pared to die, folks. You know why? This is your be­lief, this is your fam­i­ly, and I am send­ing the mes­sage clear, let Row­ley them know that the day they come for us in WASA, we are pre­pared to die and the morgue would be pick­ing up peo­ple.”

IF these are the exact words they referring to, that case gonna be like trying to glue a broken glass back together with dry red sand.

doubtful they would wait a whole year to charge him for those statements. my guess is Duke made some union communications of questionable legality that they have evidence on.

telling WASA and TTEC employees to "shut down national infrastructure" is illegal to put in writing specifically because of the sedition act. I'm not saying Watson Duke did that, but it is a charge if he did.

[hydroep]

The Importance of being seditious
Darryn Boodan

In May of 1717, a young Frenchman named Francois-Marie d’Aronuet was arrested and thrown into France’s infamous state prison, the Bastille.

Aronuet’s crime wasn’t trivial like murder or robbery or selling fake oil to Petrotrin. No, Aronuet had committed an act so grave that France’s ruling regent Philippe, felt it threatened the stability of the country; Aronuet had written a play making fun of Philippe. After a year in prison, Philippe released Aronuet hoping that he had learnt his lesson and would now make good politically approved art like Carifesta or Calypso Monarch compositions. But Aronuet’s career as a brilliant writer was just beginning. And history would remember him by the pen name he would later adopt: Voltaire.

It’s now been over 300 years since the imprisonment of Voltaire. And if the great satirist were alive today he would surely be amazed at how much the world has changed for the better, with the invention of electricity, the end of slavery and of course the advent of spicy buffalo wings. But I suspect he would also be less surprised to discover that people in power still love silencing their critics via ridiculous laws. Take for example sedition laws.

According to Dictionary.com, sedition is defined as “incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government”. The term “discontent” or “rebellion” is open to interpretation. It could mean taking up arms against the government or if your Dr Rowley, leaking his phone number. In T&T our Sedition Act even contains nebulous expressions such as “en-dan-ger or pro-mote feel-ings of ill-will or hos-til-i-ty be-tween one or more sec-tions of the com-mu-ni-ty”. But who gets to decide what “feelings of ill will” mean? In T&T “ill will” could mean promoting racial hatred. Or it could mean saying the Dr Rowley Government is so broken it would cost half price at a dollar store.

Of course T&T has experienced an actual attempted overthrow of the government. Which is why we know that kind of sedition is not really a crime here as the people involved all got away with it. Clamping down on sedition in T&T appears to be mostly about clamping down on people and ideas the government doesn’t like. Which is why our Hall of Sedition includes names like CLR James, and Tubal Uriah “Buzz’’ Butler. In fact, our colonial era sedition law was all about stamping out dissenters and was used around the Empire to muzzle troublemakers like Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi.

Currently, Tobago politician Watson Duke is being questioned by police over alleged seditious remarks. Head of the Maha Sabha Sat Maharaj had recordings of his TV programme scrutinised by police over alleged seditious remarks as well. And former UNC minister Devant Maharaj was accused of sedition when he leaked the phone numbers of cabinet ministers to the public. All of these people have two things in common. Firstly, they are all a little bit kooky and secondly they are all vocal opponents of the government. This should be of grave concern.

Dr Rowley’s government more than any other in recent times has been obsessed with labelling its dissenters as “unpatriotic.” Tobagonians who complained about the seabridge were “bad talking Tobago”. Environmentalists who questioned the Sandals resort deal were dismissed as “saboteurs”. Economists who question the government’s continued excessive borrowing are “naysayers”. For Dr Rowley, public criticism is like a golf course. You have to cut it down before it turns into a pasture.

What separates democracies from totalitarian societies is openness and free expression. This is the freedom to mock, ridicule and laugh at those in power. No democracy in the 21st century should have sedition laws that threaten to imprison people for expressing ideas and opinions. This even applies to odious ideas which are obviously distasteful, like racism or putting stewed chicken in roti.

In the past 300 years, believing the Earth orbited the Sun, to slavery is wrong, to women should vote, were all ideas which were deemed threatening to the fabric of society. And it was people risking the ire of public opinion and the State who helped to challenge that assumption.

While giving an interview with BC Pires this week, Police Commissioner Gary Griffith also suggested that ridiculing the Prime Minister was akin to undermining the country. Personally I don’t believe T&T can progress into the 21st century with the fragile insecurity of 18th century French rulers.

• Darryn Boodan is a freelance writer

https://trinidadexpress.com/opinion/columnists/the-importance-of-being-seditious/article_d9f75bf8-cab5-11e9-88b8-03d187d201e0.html

[Ben_spanna]

There was a radio talk show yesterday that had some very interesting facts about how the whole "Sedition " law came to being... basically it was introduced due to Royals not wanting common people to be able to say anything negative about them.

[maj. tom]

PNM abusing the law to systemically persecute their political enemies? What's new pussycat whoa oh....

[Redman]

I think that the obvious political fragility of a move like this points towards any party staying away from directing it.
As is demonstrated now-its too easy to classify as heavy handed and an abuse of power.

The act requires the DPP to make the decision....AND based on the wording its designed to be a high hurdle to get a conviction.


Duke isnt that popular anywhere-and has WAY too much cocoa in and out of the sun to be in need of quieting.
A little money would do the trick-like most union leaders.

Neither the UNC or the PNM are stupid-they are fighting for the coffers of the country.
This aint checkers

[Ben_spanna]

I think you would be surprised how many ignorant and foolish P.S follow this clown...……..

[ProtonPowder]

As unlikeable as they are, men like Watson Duke and Sat are integral to the democracy of this country.

Next up on the sedition block is probably devant, afra raymond, and any political analyst that appears on the news.

[zoom rader]

I think that the obvious political fragility of a move like this points towards any party staying away from directing it.
As is demonstrated now-its too easy to classify as heavy handed and an abuse of power.

The act requires the DPP to make the decision....AND based on the wording its designed to be a high hurdle to get a conviction.


Duke isnt that popular anywhere-and has WAY too much cocoa in and out of the sun to be in need of quieting.
A little money would do the trick-like most union leaders.

Neither the UNC or the PNM are stupid-they are fighting for the coffers of the country.
This aint checkers

Its only PNM that is abusing the law on jump up kangaroo charges .

It is plain to see

[Redman]

By using an act that specifically excludes that in it's definition of Sedition.

Simplistic.

But an act, speech, statement or publication is not seditious by reason only that it intends to show that the Government
has been misled or mistaken in its measures, or to point out errors or defects in the Government or Constitution as by law established, with a view to their reformation,

[Dizzy28]

I think that the obvious political fragility of a move like this points towards any party staying away from directing it.
As is demonstrated now-its too easy to classify as heavy handed and an abuse of power.

The act requires the DPP to make the decision....AND based on the wording its designed to be a high hurdle to get a conviction.


Duke isnt that popular anywhere-and has WAY too much cocoa in and out of the sun to be in need of quieting.
A little money would do the trick-like most union leaders.

Neither the UNC or the PNM are stupid-they are fighting for the coffers of the country.
This aint checkers

UNC saw it fit to think Dennie on a platform would be a win and you wouldn't classify them as stupid??
PNM well they have Young as a Minister of everything so they also seem to have a shortage of brainpower.

[Redman]

Well its easy to say that-but both sides havd 30-40% of the population committed to get them back in-so YOU/I/WE may not understand/agree/like an action-but without knowing/understanding the intent of that action the reality is that none of us know the actual goal of that action.

So Dennie was deliberate and thought out.
It cements the view that Rowley etc etc is rascists blah blah blah(just see ZR posts to get the idea) and at the same time is impossible to defend without disclosing stuff that the SSA should not be disclosing.

so Yeah- they not stupid.

[zoom rader]

Well its easy to say that-but both sides havd 30-40% of the population committed to get them back in-so YOU/I/WE may not understand/agree/like an action-but without knowing/understanding the intent of that action the reality is that none of us know the actual goal of that action.

So Dennie was deliberate and thought out.
It cements the view that Rowley etc etc is rascists blah blah blah(just see ZR posts to get the idea) and at the same time is impossible to defend without disclosing stuff that the SSA should not be disclosing.

so Yeah- they not stupid.

Rowlee is a racist?

I thought he is PNM

[The_Honourable]

Guardian editorial on point.

Sedition or Robber Talk?

The Sedi­tion Act, un­used in the past, is now emerg­ing a vi­tal in­stru­ment of the po­lice. What is not clear is whether the T&T Po­lice Ser­vice is act­ing on its vo­li­tion or is re­spond­ing to a pub­lic com­plaint. Sat Ma­haraj made state­ments which were con­sid­ered “sedi­tious” and led to a search at the ra­dio sta­tion where those com­ments were made. Court ac­tion was re­quired to” force” the TTPS to pro­duce a search war­rant which ought to have been pre­sent­ed as a mat­ter of rou­tine. No charge has been made in that mat­ter to date. Yes­ter­day, the Min­is­ter of Na­tion­al Se­cu­ri­ty dis­closed at the post-Cab­i­net press con­fer­ence that at least one charge of sedi­tion would be laid against trade union leader and politi­cian Wat­son Duke.

A sedi­tious in­ten­tion is de­fined in sec­tion 3 (1) claus­es a to e of the Con­sti­tu­tion. Clause c is a catchall de­f­i­n­i­tion; “to raise dis­con­tent or dis­af­fec­tion amongst in­hab­i­tants of Trinidad and To­ba­go.” The crit­i­cal is­sue, there­fore, is to de­ter­mine a per­son's in­tent.

There are a num­ber of points to be con­sid­ered.

First, who is the com­plainant, or are the po­lice act­ing in their own right? The po­lice ser­vice has its hands full deal­ing with the crime surge, the spi­ralling mur­der rate in par­tic­u­lar. There is al­ready a se­vere back­log of cas­es in the courts, where post­pone­ments are the norm due to the non-ap­pear­ance of po­lice of­fi­cers. Is it that the po­lice are now pa­trolling the air­waves as part of an ex­er­cise in “to­tal polic­ing” or fol­low­ing a pol­i­cy of “no bro­ken win­dows?” If that is the case, sure­ly there are more im­por­tant ar­eas re­quir­ing at­ten­tion.

Sec­ond, was the of­fence com­mit­ted in a pub­lic broad­cast­ing space? If yes, then this is the province of the Telecom­mu­ni­ca­tions Au­thor­i­ty (TATT), which has wide pow­ers, not the least of which would be the pow­er to sus­pend a broad­cast­er's op­er­a­tions. Giv­en its broad pow­ers, TATT would hard­ly need a search war­rant.

Third, is it ap­pro­pri­ate for the an­nounce­ment to be made by the Min­is­ter of Na­tion­al Se­cu­ri­ty? The Min­is­ter could give no de­tails of MP Mar­lene Mc­Don­ald's ar­rest or charges which were even­tu­al­ly re­leased by the po­lice. The Po­lice Ser­vice is meant to be sep­a­rate from the Ex­ec­u­tive branch, lest it be tempt­ed to ex­ceed its pow­er and thus threat­en the de­mo­c­ra­t­ic rights of cit­i­zens.

Union lead­ers and politi­cians are of­ten giv­en to rhetoric on pub­lic plat­forms, which would not be con­sid­ered ac­cept­able in ra­tio­nal and con­sid­ered dis­course, es­pe­cial­ly at elec­tion time. Pro­fes­sor Rose-Marie Belle An­toine, Law Dean at UWI St Au­gus­tine, has cau­tioned that “sedi­tion can be used as a po­lit­i­cal tool since it is not amongst our es­tab­lished norms,” George Or­well warned that "threats to free­dom of speech, writ­ing and ac­tion, though of­ten triv­ial in iso­la­tion, are cu­mu­la­tive in their ef­fect and, un­less checked, lead to a gen­er­al dis­re­spect for the rights of the cit­i­zen." Is this a new po­lice ini­tia­tive?

Source: https://guardian.co.tt/opinion/sedition ... e8c85a58e0

[Rovin]

when pee en em says anything its usually passed off as picong or dais small ting , when others do its a serious matter

i believe d police as just pawns & they obey instructions given by d DPP ....

[zoom rader]

We live in dangerous times under PNM.

Those that support this goverment are all silent on this matter.

Freedom of speech is under attack. But you have 1% ass lickers posting one set of nonsense

[hydroep]

Duke granted $250k bail with surety
Shane Superville

Leader of the Public Services Association Watson Duke was granted $250,000 bail with a surety when he appeared before a Port of Spain Magistrate this morning charged with sedition.

Duke appeared before magistrate Adia Mohammed in the Third Court.

The prosecution said while they did not object to a bail application made by Duke's attorney John Heath, they were concerned that Duke may continue to commit offences while on bail.

Citing Duke's pending matters of rape and indecent assault in Trinidad and one count of disorderly conduct in Tobago, the police prosecutor said they were not sure what bail stipulations to place on Duke given his status as leader of the PSA.

Duke was granted bail and is expected to return to court in December.

Heath told reporters, while Duke was mentally strong, he was still unwell and was expected to be re-admitted to the Port of Spain General Hospital on release from police custody.

https://newsday.co.tt/2019/08/30/duke-granted-250k-bail-with-surety/

[zoom rader]

Duke granted $250k bail with surety
Shane Superville

Leader of the Public Services Association Watson Duke was granted $250,000 bail with a surety when he appeared before a Port of Spain Magistrate this morning charged with sedition.

Duke appeared before magistrate Adia Mohammed in the Third Court.

The prosecution said while they did not object to a bail application made by Duke's attorney John Heath, they were concerned that Duke may continue to commit offences while on bail.

Citing Duke's pending matters of rape and indecent assault in Trinidad and one count of disorderly conduct in Tobago, the police prosecutor said they were not sure what bail stipulations to place on Duke given his status as leader of the PSA.

Duke was granted bail and is expected to return to court in December.

Heath told reporters, while Duke was mentally strong, he was still unwell and was expected to be re-admitted to the Port of Spain General Hospital on release from police custody.

https://newsday.co.tt/2019/08/30/duke-granted-250k-bail-with-surety/

Duke should have done a Panday and refused bail.

He would have gained more support and probably internation support .

[rspann]

Like how they move Sosuke Aizen thread. Sedition against tuner management?

[zoom rader]

Like how they move Sosuke Aizen thread. Sedition against tuner management?

The man only call one 1% mod and leave out fake rass, dunce and tryass

[Rovin]

look kublalsing has awoken from his deep slumber to say he supports duke ....

[bluefete]

Kiss of death??

Take care the PNM doh end up making Duke a martry.

look kublalsing has awoken from his deep slumber to say he supports duke ....