ADVICE NEEDED ON SUBARU'S AND BOOST CONTROLLERS

Rx · Postby Rx » September 30th, 2006, 7:10 pm

DrunkenMaster16 wrote:^^ Hydra anyone?

hell ya !!!!

group buy 8-)

Trinifieds · Postby **Trinifieds** » September 30th, 2006, 9:48 pm

Quick question guys, I use my subie (03 STi Prodrive) everyday for work and back. What would you all suggest to improve on fuel economy and yet keep the pep?

Alpha_2nr · Postby **Alpha_2nr** » September 30th, 2006, 10:23 pm

^^^Now of course fuel economy and power are opposites...you need to strike a balance between the two. But , it can be done; an ECU tune can do all that for you.

You can tune your car's fuelling and ignition on lower rpms (out of boost range) to keep economy, whilst still maintaining the power within boost range.

Bezman · Postby **Bezman** » October 2nd, 2006, 9:53 am

Well, just raising boost like that in an Evo, WRX, etc etc will definitely prove bad for the engine, especailly is you increase it alot, and your current ECU map can't handle it.

i dont think you read my post right...

a EBC with a good Fuel / Ignition controller would allow on the fly boost controll.. i have allot of friends with EVO 6,7,8's with EBC's and was asking a couple friends with Sti's this weekend and both of them have Profec B's in their cars, (one bug eye one big eye) and both swith between high and low boost on the fly so......

DrunkenMaster16 · Postby **DrunkenMaster16** » October 2nd, 2006, 11:44 am

Great for them! :wink:

don't call me askin for blocks. Mean while yesterday I was priverlaged enuff to take a ride in a semi tuned '02 wrx pushing 17 - 19 psi rom tune. Stock everything except a sti top mount intercooler, stock down pipe, stock td04, stock exhaust! :shock:

this thing pulled nice! Can't wait to get myself tuned :twisted:

btw wrx vs 1st gen rx = 4 cars without launching hard...

Yeah having high boost / low boost on the fly is nice, but safty and power are more important to some of us :wink:

Rx · Postby Rx » October 2nd, 2006, 8:24 pm

btw wrx vs 1st gen rx = 4 cars without launching hard...

yuppie !!!!!!

let's see the EvO beat this :twisted:

DrunkenMaster16 · Postby **DrunkenMaster16** » October 2nd, 2006, 8:48 pm

Rick, ah still waiting for you to try a evo :twisted:

Alpha_2nr · Postby **Alpha_2nr** » October 3rd, 2006, 9:17 am

btw wrx vs 1st gen rx

Actually, it was a Turbo 2nd Gen RX-7.... and it was five car lengths :twisted:

People don't understand the damage that BC's can do to their engine. it's the cheap way out.

Here's an excerpt from www.wrxtuners.com, as to why BC's are one of the worst mods you can do to a Scubie:

Partial throttle full boost is the biggest danger associated with boost controllers. We have already discussed how the ECU regulates boost based on rpm and load. A boost controller does not factor load or rpm into the equation. It works on pressure only. It will allow your turbo to reach full boost at 3000 rpm or 7000 rpm. And, it will allow it at 10% load or 100% load, or anywhere in between. At full throttle it may be okay, because the computer is still adding the fuel it thinks the car needs. But, at partial throttle it is adding very little fuel, because it thinks the car is only making a small amount of boost, which leads to extremely lean conditions. I have seen AFR's in the 19:1 range pretty commonly with a boost controller at partial throttle.

a EBC with a good Fuel / Ignition controller would allow on the fly boost controll..

i have allot of friends with EVO 6,7,8's with EBC's and was asking a couple friends with Sti's this weekend and both of them have Profec B's in their cars, (one bug eye one big eye) and both swith between high and low boost on the fly so......

RS200....we aren't talking about a CA18DET here...no offence. "On the fly" boost control is the problem...that is what can damage an engine. Fuelling, Ignition, and Boost all need to work in tandem...for optimum efficiency. And when tuned properly it works. I'm not saying that the EBC's don't work...they do. But it's not the best thing for these cars.

Take my word on that. When it comes to tuning a car like a Scubie, or an Evo, nothing comes close to a good ECU ROM tune.

Bezman · Postby **Bezman** » October 3rd, 2006, 12:58 pm

breds either you cant read or just want to argue...

i never mentioned any CA18 or anything - so offence taken, infact i dont own one anymore

, so you bringing that up shows me you are not comprehending what i am saying and trying to belittle me.... and are just arguing with me cause you either a)dont think i know about combustion / boosted engines or b)jsut think subarus are SOOOOOO different i can never understand one :roll:

combustion engines are all the same and work on the same priciples essentially, and i understand turbo systems and EMS etc very well...

you tune the fuel / ignition controller (or even teh ROM tune) at the different boost levels, throttle position , O2 A/F readings etc on the dyno or street or where ever... so when you swtich the boost controller from 17-low to 21-high there is already maps saved for 17psi and 18psi and so on till 21 or whatever you limit your high boost to..

cant you understand that?? i know the benefits of ROM tunes and i stated that already, i am talking about if he wants on the fly boost contol - i have been in and know allot fo people with ROM tunes and they all sing the same song, the change a air filter or CAI or some small part of the set up and they need to get a new one... i am just offering different options, they are not wrong as you say, theya re jsut a different appraoch that what 'you' and others think is best...

c'mon man i have said that liek 10 times... :roll:

i see you set in your ways, peace out...

X2 · Postby X2 » October 3rd, 2006, 2:21 pm

Jeebus RS200... why yuh so agressive ?

You not reading what Knight1 posted or wha ? :lol:

The subies don't respond the same as other engines you're used to. Much of it has to do with the ecu... but keep in mind.... the boxer design has different cam and ignition timing characteristics.

Bezman · Postby **Bezman** » October 3rd, 2006, 2:41 pm

i keep hearing from ya'll they are so different, but the more and more i read, they are just like all modern engines running EMS... raise the boost, you need to add fuel and adjsut timing to avoid knock and detonation / lean conditions - you may need to switch to a bigger AFM or Map, you may need bigger injectors and or fuel pump etc.. these can be adjusted by Apexi Power FC's, Emanage Ultimate ETC//

how is that soooooo different??

i see that Emanage Ulimited, Apexi FC, FCONs, VPC's and even GCC's are used on sti's etc..

i know that the prefered route is ECUTECK and other rom tunes..

my point is that subaru owners CAN use a Fuel / Ignition / EMS controller with a EBC and get great resutls, it may not be the popular thing to do but it is and can be done..

no one has said why, only - it cant be done, you dont own a subaru so you dont know.... please enlighten me...

Greddy's STi upgrade turbo kit comes with a Emanage Ultimate - so....

i was so agressive cause he keeps saying 'this aint no ca18" or "you dont know a subaru so get out" or something to that effect.. i am not comparing the two, i am simply talking about that adding /removing boost requires adjusting the ECU to compensate for the increased boost / air etc - and a EBC in tandem with a good fuel / timing / EMS controller or even rom tuning your ECU to work on different boost levels so you can adjust boost on the fly and not be limited to what teh ROM tuner sets for you..... thats alll...

infact my first post was jsut stating what EBC was easy to use and install..

X2 · Postby X2 » October 3rd, 2006, 2:56 pm

So you're internet reading makes you vastly more knowledgeable than the people who actually own and are tuning their Subies... seeing real world results and problems first hand ?

black canary · Postby **black canary** » October 3rd, 2006, 3:00 pm

x2...have u heard the news? they are puttin u to run security on saturday night drags ...after u will wash the cars ...lol

Postby **W2J** » October 3rd, 2006, 3:07 pm

^

x2 you of all people should know how maps are setup between 17 - 21psi you will also need to modify this map, I feel this is where most subaru have the problem. With the ultimate you have a 3bar map sensor that you should use to make your new map on kpa/psi and not depend on the Airflow meter to tune via load. I totally agree with what RS200 is saying I just cant understand why you cannot

Bezman · Postby **Bezman** » October 3rd, 2006, 3:18 pm

So you're internet reading makes you vastly more knowledgeable than the people who actually own and are tuning their Subies... seeing real world results and problems first hand ?

i now realise you reading my post the same way, looking for faults..

i clearly asked for someone to 'enlighten me as to why' and not jsut say its so, you dont own one so you dont know..

^ Laughing x2 you of all people should know how maps are setup between 17 - 21psi yuo will also need to modify the map, I feel this is where most subaru have the problem. With the ultimate you have a 3bar map sensor that you should use to make your new map on kpa/psi and not depend on the Airflow meter to tune via load. I totally agree with what RS200 is saying I just cant understand why you not

thanks gerlad..

i may not know everything, but dammit i understand how combustion engines work, i understand A/F ratios, i understand EMS's... so i understand whats needed to keep the balance..

telling me the boxer is different doesnt explain why, ok it uses other parameters besides Boost and AFM, so what, most ECU"S do (and i'll dare say it now, even the old arse CA18 i had thats was almost 20 years old took into consideration things like TPS and O2 voltage besides MAF voltage) i understand the scooby ecu takes into consideration a wealth of info like TPS, Engine Temp, map, load, Throttle position, speed etc.. i know..

X2 i would expect that you would read what i am saying from an intellectual stand point, a ROM tune, or Stock ECU, with the right Auxillaies (Power Fc or EM Ultimate etc) can work with a EBC to allow boost controll..

and falling short of owning one, i can only relay on what i read and see.. unless someones really tells me WHY, i will continue to read.

so tell me this then, they cant use a system like Autronic or haltech or something with a EBC either right?? casue in that case they are dooing away with the entire OEM subaru EMS.. cause those aint no rom tunnes or chips...

black canary · Postby **black canary** » October 3rd, 2006, 3:22 pm

of course x2 being the great interlectual he is ...lol.... :mrgreen:

Postby **W2J** » October 3rd, 2006, 3:25 pm

thanks gerlad..

ummmm

its Gerrard

X2 · Postby X2 » October 3rd, 2006, 4:33 pm

*EDITED*

1) Black Canary.... for real kid...your constant referring to me in posts is putting you in the same ring with the Dumb F*ck Crew... I don't know you, shush....

2) I am not a Subie expert, nor claiming to be... so stop nit picking ya nancies.

3) Ppl are STILL talking crap about cars they've never touched, tuned or even tried.... you guys have no clue as to how the scoob ecu works, yet you fighting with googled info ?

Jeebus... carry on oui... I guess tuning Evos can be done by reading a website too...

... I'll sit this one out and let the Subie guys ketch kixx. :lol:

Alpha_2nr · Postby **Alpha_2nr** » October 3rd, 2006, 4:33 pm

You not reading what Knight1 posted or wha ? Laughing The subies don't respond the same as other engines you're used to. Much of it has to do with the ecu... but keep in mind.... the boxer design has different cam and ignition timing characteristics.

That's what I've been trying to say. I never said that the EBC setup doesn't work...just that EJ20's are very picky....and the slightest "upset" that the ECU detects...well...you get the idea.

my point is that subaru owners CAN use a Fuel / Ignition / EMS controller with a EBC and get great resutls, it may not be the popular thing to do but it is and can be done..

no one has said why, only - it cant be done, you dont own a subaru so you dont know.... please enlighten me...

Never said it can't be done. Of course it can. Lot's of aftermarket shops like Turbo XS for one, use this kind of setup (using the Turbo XS UTEC, which is quite popular). Even "Vishnu Tuning" offers it's own piggyback system..the Xede.

My point is that:

1) It's a bit more difficult to do it that way...when the ECU can be remapped very easily

2) It costs more.

3) The Scubie ECU is more than capable of handling that. I suppose that the most you may need to do, for stage 2 tunes (and above), is to use a Wideband...

3) Ppl are STILL talking crap about cars they've never touched, tuned or even tried.... you guys have no clue as to how the scoob ecu works, yet you fighting with googled info ?

True. You'd think people would acutally listen to those who've done it/are doing it, rather than reading it off a google search.

black canary · Postby **black canary** » October 3rd, 2006, 4:39 pm

x2 relax buddy ....take ur time dude no need to speed .....if u lookin for a beatin look somewhere else

X2 · Postby X2 » October 3rd, 2006, 4:47 pm

black canary wrote:x2 relax buddy ....take ur time dude no need to speed .....if u lookin for a beatin look somewhere else

I hope u don't have any boost leaks to hide behind come weekend... :evil:

Seriously tho... don't make me call you by your given vegetable name....

black canary · Postby **black canary** » October 3rd, 2006, 4:49 pm

x2 u workin cia or wat? a- class macu indeed

black canary · Postby **black canary** » October 3rd, 2006, 4:49 pm

boost leak or not ...ill be there ..win or loose ur still a tool ...lol

X2 · Postby X2 » October 3rd, 2006, 5:09 pm

Yes... I work for the CIA.

Ah yes oh small, ghey bird...win or lose (dais how you spell ''lose'').... I'll still be ur daddy.

black canary · Postby **black canary** » October 3rd, 2006, 5:57 pm

oh of course x2 .... remember spit dont make child so i guess that rules u out the daddy part :mrgreen:

DrunkenMaster16 · Postby **DrunkenMaster16** » October 3rd, 2006, 8:03 pm

either of allyuh own a subaru? No so stfu and get it on ole talk :roll:

Daddy has spoken. :lol:

JWT · Postby **JWT** » October 4th, 2006, 10:05 am

lordie we need to clean up this thread

black canary · Postby **black canary** » October 4th, 2006, 10:42 am

its official x2 will be running security saturday prior to washing the cars to run....lol

Bezman · Postby **Bezman** » October 4th, 2006, 10:57 am

its not a mater of where i got any info, i own allot of books on turbo charging and engine building and making horsepower etc.. i understand the principles behind all of it..

i didnt agree with the "you dont own one, so you dont know" attitude...

1) It's a bit more difficult to do it that way...when the ECU can be remapped very easily

2) It costs more.

3) The Scubie ECU is more than capable of handling that. I suppose that the most you may need to do, for stage 2 tunes (and above), is to use a Wideband...

you realise all that can be done, at the same cost of something like a Apexi Power FC D-Jetro (which will allow you to use a MAP sensor and boost control in one

) and it would only cost about teh same as you Rom tune done once???, and its almost infinitly adjustable on the fly by the tuner or his tuner and adjust to any set up, wihtout having to go to a shop or fedex in (and back out your old ecu) your new Rom Tune? or pay to downlaod from the net or something??

i too wasnt saying that ROM tunes are not bad, i would reccomentd them for a wide range of applications, and i wasnt argueing one side or the other, i was moe into why the subarus are so different if ya'll saying they are? - but you cleared up that they are jsut like any other and can use the same bolt on and replacement EMS/EBC etc..

but - we'll agree to dissagree

- its been informative