The Religion Discussion

[Kasey]

Also you can reciprocate your love for the universe and God in which ever way you see fit. Why claim that there is only one specific way to do it (your flavour of Christianity)?

In other words Hindus and Muslims and Jews and Roman Catholics and Buddhists believe in God and they DO reciprocate their love to him. What makes your way right and their way wrong?

Because God loves you it does not negate the fact that we have sin. If as parents you tell you child to not do something does it negate the fact that they have disobeyed you in doing what you told them not to because you love them.

There lies a major problem "in which ever you see fit", can we follow the laws of this land in which ever way we see fit? Through out the Bible it talks about false god's even Islam which you claim to take part in talk about false gods. Do the math.

You keep saying what makes my way correct, where did I say it was my way. In case you have not realize I have pointed you to Christ and the Bible, many of the questions I have asked you never answered. Your greatest answer " thats only your opinion'. If ever the police ever pulls you over or any one on tuner, they should respond "that your opinion'. What makes the laws of this land what it is? Is it just someone's opinion? then like I have said many times before, don't be angry if someone kills someone you love by breaking a law such as the speed limit or driving drunk. What makes it right for them to live life by the laws you follow they should live as the see fit.

So can someone answer how does one know that their good deeds out weigh their bad when they die?

No one telling you that YOU have YOUR way padna. One is asking you, lets say someone doesnt have a religion, and looks at all, impartially, without bias (Christianity, hinduism, Islam, buddism, etc.). What makes your BELIEF (in the Bible and Christianity), more right than everyone elses's belief (Texts and religion)? What physical proof (something an impartial human would require) would you give him?

[Kasey]

So can someone answer how does one know that their good deeds out weigh their bad when they die?

Only when they die they will know OBVIOUSLY (if there is an afterlife). How do you know how a bake and shark tastes like in Maracas?

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

thanks for the clarification Kasey, i wasnt sure whether to answer him as I would a 3 year old or not - as his logic showed.

Toyo, Catholics say their way is through Christ and the Bible, yet megadoc1 claims they are wrong in their practices. What makes megadoc1 right? Is HIS exegesis better?

The laws of the land are fixed i.e. ONE set of laws. there are not multiple beliefs for what the laws should be. There is failed logic in your analogy of comparing state laws with following your beliefs in religion.

How are you even sure that at death there is a scale measuring exactly how much your good deeds outweigh your bad? Perhaps it is all about your lifelong intention to be good.

If you have proof that your method is the correct one then please prove it.

[d spike]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

For a man you claims to have taught Christianity for years and knows the Bible, are you not familiar with the concepts of idol gods or false gods, or demons parading as gods.
Take a read of Exodus 32, for the hack of it why don't you read the Bible again, there seems to be a lot of things that you have missed.

For a man who claims a degree, your grammar leaves a lot to be desired.
I am well aware of the concept of false gods, and the existence of demons... but I am also aware that in those olden days, the word "god" was used to explain anything that personal experience or knowledge couldn't - are you? - and we are not speaking about a person who quakes at the lightning, fearing the being who hurled it at some nearby apostate, or a person who seriously considers copulating with a female in his garden to increase the fertility of his new crops. (Correct me if I am wrong, Kasey )
There is no God of War, God of Oceans, God of Weather, God of Healing... Just One True God.

As far as demons parading as gods, well, what religion could you possibly image Kasey to be referring to? If the ways of the Lord God are Truth, Peace, Love and Goodness... and the religion being followed urges you along these paths... do you think demons want humans to become more truthful, peaceful, loving and good?
You really think that these are exactly the kind of folks that Satan needs to destroy God's plan? (Nothin' like some good, kind folks to muck up and frustrate the big man, right?)

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.

I am talking about you. Your faith. If you believe there is only one True God, from whom all good things come, then someone praying to the supreme being, focusing on the one who gave us life, thanking that being for received blessings, and asking for future ones... who do you think that person is praying to????
Names are used to identify one created being from another, we invented them. God must have a name? Why? To differentiate him from..... WHO? Who gave Him the names we use?
Don't be so 'farse' and out of place to talk of "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" - same meaning anyway... yes, that was the name given by God to Moses... but that was because of the same 'farseness' and human fraility ("Who to tell dem sent me?" "God?" "Which one?") for in his human condition, Moses and all others then were unaware of all that I have spoken of above (there is only the one)... "Yahweh" means "the one who is" ("I am who am").
(Yuh want tuh know mih name? Yuh so dotish, yuh eh know who I is, eh? Is me! Is only me here!)

It does NOT matter what name YOU call God. He is...

And as for being smarmy with me, telling me to read the bible again... Come better than that. Leave the upstart remarks for Megadoc to make... at least, with the level of nonsense he has produced, I can expect it.
Speaking of which, what about that different method of communication that Megadoc was talking about? Can you explain it?

[megadoc1]

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.
so God will not be angry of people praying to carved gods ?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)

Jeremiah 10
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

7Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.

8But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.

9Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

11Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

12He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

13When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

14Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

15They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.

obviously it is not to the same God

psalms 135:16
15The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

16They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;

17They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

18They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.

yep this guy needs to take another look at the bible
there is no way he could have been teaching Christianity

[Kasey]

WHEN did "this guy" refer what he said to the Bible?

[Computerman]

It is clear to me that it is by being a good person, it has been shouted right here many times. This is not the message of the Bible.

Quite correct. The Bible is a tool, constructed by man to control, confuse and manipulate the populous.

[toyo682]

What makes your BELIEF (in the Bible and Christianity), more right than everyone elses's belief (Texts and religion)? What physical proof (something an impartial human would require) would you give him?

The Hope of Salvation no other religion offers it.

Let me sum it up for you,

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

plus the countless lives that I have see changed, they people that have been healed in the name of Jesus after the doctors gave up on them. etc, etc.

[megadoc1]

It is clear to me that it is by being a good person, it has been shouted right here many times. This is not the message of the Bible.

Quite correct. The Bible is a tool, constructed by man to control, confuse and manipulate the populous.

and then they does wanna a talk about my level of understanding

[toyo682]

About the quote, I dont know of anyone bowing down and worshipping idols.
How do we know that it is the same god?

Wait... are you saying that there is more than one deity????
Toyo, make up your mind... either you are a monotheist, or you aren't.

For a man you claims to have taught Christianity for years and knows the Bible, are you not familiar with the concepts of idol gods or false gods, or demons parading as gods.
Take a read of Exodus 32, for the hack of it why don't you read the Bible again, there seems to be a lot of things that you have missed.

For a man who claims a degree, your grammar leaves a lot to be desired.
I am well aware of the concept of false gods, and the existence of demons... but I am also aware that in those olden days, the word "god" was used to explain anything that personal experience or knowledge couldn't - are you? - and we are not speaking about a person who quakes at the lightning, fearing the being who hurled it at some nearby apostate, or a person who seriously considers copulating with a female in his garden to increase the fertility of his new crops. (Correct me if I am wrong, Kasey )
There is no God of War, God of Oceans, God of Weather, God of Healing... Just One True God.

As far as demons parading as gods, well, what religion could you possibly image Kasey to be referring to? If the ways of the Lord God are Truth, Peace, Love and Goodness... and the religion being followed urges you along these paths... do you think demons want humans to become more truthful, peaceful, loving and good?
You really think that these are exactly the kind of folks that Satan needs to destroy God's plan? (Nothin' like some good, kind folks to muck up and frustrate the big man, right?)

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.

I am talking about you. Your faith. If you believe there is only one True God, from whom all good things come, then someone praying to the supreme being, focusing on the one who gave us life, thanking that being for received blessings, and asking for future ones... who do you think that person is praying to????
Names are used to identify one created being from another, we invented them. God must have a name? Why? To differentiate him from..... WHO? Who gave Him the names we use?
Don't be so 'farse' and out of place to talk of "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" - same meaning anyway... yes, that was the name given by God to Moses... but that was because of the same 'farseness' and human fraility ("Who to tell dem sent me?" "God?" "Which one?") for in his human condition, Moses and all others then were unaware of all that I have spoken of above (there is only the one)... "Yahweh" means "the one who is" ("I am who am").
(Yuh want tuh know mih name? Yuh so dotish, yuh eh know who I is, eh? Is me! Is only me here!)

It does NOT matter what name YOU call God. He is...

And as for being smarmy with me, telling me to read the bible again... Come better than that. Leave the upstart remarks for Megadoc to make... at least, with the level of nonsense he has produced, I can expect it.
Speaking of which, what about that different method of communication that Megadoc was talking about? Can you explain it?

Now if this is true then there would never be a thing called idolatry would there... If the God of the Bible was not concern as you say, then he would not say to Israel not to follow the gods of the heathen right, because the heathen god and him would be one and the same. So forbidding them for do such would be pointless.

[toyo682]

thanks for the clarification Kasey, i wasnt sure whether to answer him as I would a 3 year old or not - as his logic showed.

Toyo, Catholics say their way is through Christ and the Bible, Is this all, don't they teach that members spend time in purgatory to pay for their sins. Isn't this pointless since the same Bible they use says that Christ died for their sins. Is Christ's sacrifice insufficient? What about paying the priest to hold a special mass so that your love one who spend less time in hell, does this practice not exist? Can you quote the verse in the Bible where his is found. Can you quote the verse in the Bible that says we should pray to Mary to intercede for us?yet megadoc1 claims they are wrong in their practices. What makes megadoc1 right? Is HIS exegesis better?

The laws of the land are fixed i.e. ONE set of laws. there are not multiple beliefs for what the laws should be. There is failed logic in your analogy of comparing state laws with following your beliefs in religion.

My point master of comprehension was who deem these laws acceptable for me or any other person to follow. Can't I live how I see fit?

How are you even sure that at death there is a scale measuring exactly how much your good deeds outweigh your bad? Perhaps it is all about your lifelong intention to be good. let me quote Valvoline for this one.


Like the man said sometimes probably doesn't cut it..
If you have proof that your method is the correct one then please prove it.The proof is in the lives of those around me and around the world.

[Computerman]

It is clear to me that it is by being a good person, it has been shouted right here many times. This is not the message of the Bible.

Quite correct. The Bible is a tool, constructed by man to control, confuse and manipulate the populous.

and then they does wanna a talk about my level of understanding

No, no, you misunderstand.... again! It's not your level of understanding that is in question, it is your lack thereof!
So which part of my statement do you disagree with?

[megadoc1]

It is clear to me that it is by being a good person, it has been shouted right here many times. This is not the message of the Bible.

Quite correct. The Bible is a tool, constructed by man to control, confuse and manipulate the populous.

and then they does wanna a talk about my level of understanding

No, no, you misunderstand.... again! It's not your level of understanding that is in question, it is your lack thereof! even that
So which part of my statement do you disagree with? since you asked,
that what you quoted was from a discussion on why the bible is different from the other religious texts but what you stated can also be said for each of the other religious texts
therefore your contribution was insignificant and rather lacking, more on the input side that is

[Computerman]

It is clear to me that it is by being a good person, it has been shouted right here many times. This is not the message of the Bible.

Quite correct. The Bible is a tool, constructed by man to control, confuse and manipulate the populous.

and then they does wanna a talk about my level of understanding

No, no, you misunderstand.... again! It's not your level of understanding that is in question, it is your lack thereof! even that
So which part of my statement do you disagree with? since you asked,
that what you quoted was from a discussion on why the bible is different from the other religious texts but what you stated can also be said for each of the other religious texts
therefore your contribution was insignificant and rather lacking, more on the input side that is

The purpose for the creation of my contribution, lacking and insignificant though it was, was satisfied by your most poignant revelation!

[megadoc1]

thanks for the clarification Kasey, i wasnt sure whether to answer him as I would a 3 year old or not - as his logic showed.

Toyo, Catholics say their way is through Christ and the Bible, Is this all, don't they teach that members spend time in purgatory to pay for their sins. Isn't this pointless since the same Bible they use says that Christ died for their sins. Is Christ's sacrifice insufficient? What about paying the priest to hold a special mass so that your love one who spend less time in hell, does this practice not exist? Can you quote the verse in the Bible where his is found. Can you quote the verse in the Bible that says we should pray to Mary to intercede for us?yet megadoc1 claims they are wrong in their practices. What makes megadoc1 right? Is HIS exegesis better?

I never would post stuff like this but it seems that duane can only "understand" things from those intellectuals' point of view as they appear to be speaking his "language"

[d spike]

I am talking about you. Your faith. If you believe there is only one True God, from whom all good things come, then someone praying to the supreme being, focusing on the one who gave us life, thanking that being for received blessings, and asking for future ones... who do you think that person is praying to????
Names are used to identify one created being from another, we invented them. God must have a name? Why? To differentiate him from..... WHO? Who gave Him the names we use?
Don't be so 'farse' and out of place to talk of "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" - same meaning anyway... yes, that was the name given by God to Moses... but that was because of the same 'farseness' and human fraility ("Who to tell dem sent me?" "God?" "Which one?") for in his human condition, Moses and all others then were unaware of all that I have spoken of above (there is only the one)... "Yahweh" means "the one who is" ("I am who am").
(Yuh want tuh know mih name? Yuh so dotish, yuh eh know who I is, eh? Is me! Is only me here!)

It does NOT matter what name YOU call God. He is...

And as for being smarmy with me, telling me to read the bible again... Come better than that. Leave the upstart remarks for Megadoc to make... at least, with the level of nonsense he has produced, I can expect it.
Speaking of which, what about that different method of communication that Megadoc was talking about? Can you explain it?

Now if this is true then there would never be a thing called idolatry would there... If the God of the Bible was not concern as you say, then he would not say to Israel not to follow the gods of the heathen right, because the heathen god and him would be one and the same. So forbidding them for do such would be pointless.

Wow. Why am I not surprised that you didn't respond to the statements posted above...
If you disagree with them, why not say where my errors are?

As for the fuss about idolatry in the old testament, I figured you would pull that card...
All things mature, everything has a season. Even religious beliefs have to go through a 'learning curve'.
Do you have "sacred tamarind trees"? When last have you stoned anyone for working instead of resting on the Sabbath? Do you use the services of "temple prostitutes" at whatever temple you attend? Who was it that offered to sacrifice to God whatever greeted him first upon his arrival at home, as a sacrifice of thanksgiving? (Please note that it wasn't a sin sacrifice, so save the "Jesus died for our sins, hence no more need for sin sacrifices" lecture) He had to slay his daughter, didn't he? How many kids have you done away with as thanksgiving sacrifices? (Now that was REAL religion, you wusses )
Have you got my point as yet? When dealing with children, there are some things that you would prefer to deal with in a way that would allow a more accurate explanation later on in life... If a three year-old asks you where babies come from, would you launch into the joys of sex?
Hence the purpose of the stories of Genesis, to provide simple answers for simple folk.

Man finds his way to an awareness of God, and so a multitude of beliefs sprang up. Christianity is the result of the teachings that came via one of them that GREW into Judaism. The belief system of Abraham was different and a lot simpler than Solomon's.
If you use a parent's point of view, you will see the situation more clearly. There was quite a variety of "gods" in the time of Moses. If God really did choose the Hebrews to channel His teachings through, then He would have to get them to focus on what was being shown to them within their culture, and not be distracted by external influences.
(As a parent, you don't tell your five year-old kids about perverts and wastrels and contagious disease-carrying folks with disgusting habits... you say, "Don't talk to strangers." When the questions come regarding nice old men offering sweets, you respond, "Because I said so!" - if you disagree with this, then it would be very clear to all parents reading this that you are not one and have NO idea what I am speaking about. )
If God told the children of Israel that "it didn't matter", would they stress their own belief in their lives? It was a lot easier to tell the children not to play with the neighbour's kids.

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.
so God will not be angry of people praying to carved gods ?

"Praying TO carved gods" means worshiping the object itself. As the object itself is but a physical object, and clearly is not God, this behaviour is not right.

Praying before carved statues, using the image to help focus a human mind, is not idolatry. Idolatry is the worship of the thing itself. (When you were younger, didn't you prefer to read books that had pictures in them?)

Anyway, Idolatry as a wrong has a far greater significance now to us in these times - unless you have not matured, and still feel the urge to sacrifice stuff and stone sinners -
to place something in our lives before God is idolatry. Since what we know of God is limited to the teachings we are aware of, then following the way of life that we have learned, which brings us closer to Him should be uppermost in our lives.

[cacasplat3]

how is your question greater than mine?

and to answer, i would think i would have a good chance, because the driving force for me to lead a good and honest life is because I want to do it, and not because if i didn't do it, i would go to hell..................

So if you died today have you done enough good to satisfy God for the sins you have committed?

i cant judge that....if there is a god, he would know that deeds arent the only thing that should be looked at.......the mentality of a person is more important...........whats the point in looking at the deeds? if those deeds were done to win favour with god rather than to help and look out for your fellow man, then god will see that you arent really good.......since it was all done "for the sake of"

how is your question greater than mine?

and to answer, i would think i would have a good chance, because the driving force for me to lead a good and honest life is because I want to do it, and not because if i didn't do it, i would go to hell..................

So if you died today have you done enough good to satisfy God for the sins you have committed?

TOYO, YUH DIN ANSWER HIS FIRST QUESTION:" How is your question greater than cacasplat's?"

I did not say my question was greater read again, I was meaning that the greater question one should ask themselves is what if there is something after. If there is nothing after you have nothing to lose truly whether you live good or bad.

why is that question greater? i still fail to see the logic......because by ALL accounts, there is NO proof of life after death............

ever spoke to a person who died for a short period of time? e.g. heart failure, near drowning and the person was revived..........have you ever asked what happened? well from the accounts of the ppl i know personally there is no light, there is no hand reaching out........there is nothing.........

[toyo682]

how is your question greater than mine?

and to answer, i would think i would have a good chance, because the driving force for me to lead a good and honest life is because I want to do it, and not because if i didn't do it, i would go to hell..................

So if you died today have you done enough good to satisfy God for the sins you have committed?

i cant judge that....if there is a god, he would know that deeds arent the only thing that should be looked at.......the mentality of a person is more important...........whats the point in looking at the deeds? if those deeds were done to win favour with god rather than to help and look out for your fellow man, then god will see that you arent really good.......since it was all done "for the sake of"partly my point.

how is your question greater than mine?

and to answer, i would think i would have a good chance, because the driving force for me to lead a good and honest life is because I want to do it, and not because if i didn't do it, i would go to hell..................

So if you died today have you done enough good to satisfy God for the sins you have committed?

TOYO, YUH DIN ANSWER HIS FIRST QUESTION:" How is your question greater than cacasplat's?"

I did not say my question was greater read again, I was meaning that the greater question one should ask themselves is what if there is something after. If there is nothing after you have nothing to lose truly whether you live good or bad.

why is that question greater? i still fail to see the logic......because by ALL accounts, there is NO proof of life after death............By all accounts, or by all accounts that you know of. Is there proof that there is no life after death?

ever spoke to a person who died for a short period of time? Actual I did, he describe it as hot and very dark. e.g. heart failure, near drowning and the person was revived..........have you ever asked what happened? well from the accounts of the ppl i know personally there is no light, there is no hand reaching out........there is nothing.........

[bluefete]

I have Not Been Around For a Few Days (not even reading) but this was too good to pass up. Only problem is a sea is a sea not a lagoon or river. Why can't scientists use God's descriptions instead of their own?

Biblical tale of Moses parting the Red Sea 'may really have happened'

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 4:30 PM on 21st September 2010


One of the most dramatic episodes in the Old Testament, the parting of the Red Sea, may actually have happened, new research has shown.

But the event described in the Book of Exodus was probably more due to freak weather conditions than the hand of Jehovah.

A new computer modelling study suggests a powerful wind could have divided the waters just as depicted in the biblical story that has mystified scholars and inspired Hollywood film epics.

The likely location of the 'miracle' was not the Red Sea as such, but a nearby spot in the Nile Delta region.


An artist's impression showing how a strong wind could have pushed back waters from two ancient basins, a lagoon (left) and a river (right), and led to the Biblical account of the parting of the Red Sea

In the Exodus account, Moses and the fleeing Israelites are trapped between the Pharaoh's advancing chariots and a body of water identified from translations as either the Red Sea or Sea of Reeds.

Thanks to divine intervention, a mighty east wind blows all night, splitting the waters to leave a passage of dry land with walls of water on both sides.

The Israelites make their escape, but when the Pharaoh's army tries to pursue them the waters come crashing back and drown the soldiers.

Scientists in the US studying ancient maps of the Nile Delta region pinpointed where the crossing may have occurred, just south of the Mediterranean Sea

Here, according to some experts, an ancient branch of the Nile flowed into a coastal lagoon then known as the Lake of Tanis.

Analysis of archaeological records, satellite measurements and maps allowed the researchers to estimate the water flow and depth at the site 3,000 years ago.

An ocean computer model was then used to simulate the impact of a strong overnight wind on the six-foot-deep waters.

The scientists found that an east wind of 63 mph blowing for 12 hours would have driven the shallow waters back, both into the lake and the river channel.

For a period of four hours, this would have created a land bridge about two miles long and three miles wide.

The waters really would have been parted, with barriers of water raised on both sides of the newly exposed mud flats.

As soon as the winds dropped, the waters would have rushed back, much like a tidal bore. Anyone stranded on the mud flats would have been at risk of drowning, said the scientists, whose findings are reported today in the online journal Public Library of Science ONE.

Lead researcher Carl Drews, from the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, said: 'The simulations match fairly closely with the account in Exodus.

'The parting of the waters can be understood through fluid dynamics. The wind moves the water in a way that's in accordance with physical laws, creating a safe passage with water on two sides and then abruptly allowing the water to rush back in.

'People have always been fascinated by this Exodus story, wondering if it comes from historical facts. What this study shows is that the description of the waters parting indeed has a basis in physical laws.'

An old drawing showing Moses parting the Red Sea

The set of 14 computer simulations showed that dry land could also have been exposed at two other nearby sites during a wind storm from the east.

Those events did not fit so well with the Biblical account, since both involved a single body of water getting pushed to one side rather than being parted.

Mr Drews' team found that the reef would have had to be entirely flat to allow the water to drain off it in 12 hours. A more realistic reef with lower and deeper sections would have retained water-filled channels that would have been difficult to wade through.

It was also unlikely that the refugees could have made the crossing in almost hurricane-force winds, said the Colorado researchers.


Other theories to explain the parting of the Red Sea



Several previous theories have been put forward to explain the parting of the Red Sea.

One involved a tsunami, which can cause a body of water to retreat and then advance rapidly.

But such an event would not have caused the gradual overnight divide of the waters as described in the Bible, or been so associated with winds.

Other experts have focused on a phenomenon linked to strong persistent winds known as 'wind setdown' which can lower water levels in one area while piling up water downwind.

One study found that winds blowing from the north-west at a near-hurricane force of 74mph could in theory have exposed an underwater reef near the present-day Suez Canal, providing a walkable land passage.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z10DPfv72y

[toyo682]

As for the fuss about idolatry in the old testament, I figured you would pull that card...
All things mature, everything has a season. Even religious beliefs have to go through a 'learning curve'.
Do you have "sacred tamarind trees"? When last have you stoned anyone for working instead of resting on the Sabbath? Do you use the services of "temple prostitutes" at whatever temple you attend? Who was it that offered to sacrifice to God whatever greeted him first upon his arrival at home, as a sacrifice of thanksgiving? (Please note that it wasn't a sin sacrifice, so save the "Jesus died for our sins, hence no more need for sin sacrifices" lecture) He had to slay his daughter, didn't he? How many kids have you done away with as thanksgiving sacrifices? (Now that was REAL religion, you wusses )You area familiar with the different covenants of the Bible. They account for a lot of change in between the way Abraham worshiped and the way we do today. But you know that...
Have you got my point as yet? When dealing with children, there are some things that you would prefer to deal with in a way that would allow a more accurate explanation later on in life... If a three year-old asks you where babies come from, would you launch into the joys of sex?
Hence the purpose of the stories of Genesis, to provide simple answers for simple folk.

Man finds his way to an awareness of God, and so a multitude of beliefs sprang up. Christianity is the result of the teachings that came via one of them that GREW into Judaism. The belief system of Abraham was different and a lot simpler than Solomon's.
If you use a parent's point of view, you will see the situation more clearly. There was quite a variety of "gods" in the time of Moses. How could there be a variety of 'gods' weren't they serving the same god but under a different name?If God really did choose the Hebrews to channel His teachings through, then He would have to get them to focus on what was being shown to them within their culture, and not be distracted by external influences.Why would God do that? In light of your reasoning, whether they served him as Jehovah or by the name of one of the gods in Egypt they would have been serving him any ways, weren't the Egyptians serving the same god under a different name, as we are all doing now, as you claim
(As a parent, you don't tell your five year-old kids about perverts and wastrels and contagious disease-carrying folks with disgusting habits... you say, "Don't talk to strangers." When the questions come regarding nice old men offering sweets, you respond, "Because I said so!" - if you disagree with this, then it would be very clear to all parents reading this that you are not one and have NO idea what I am speaking about. )
If God told the children of Israel that "it didn't matter", would they stress their own belief in their lives? It was a lot easier to tell the children not to play with the neighbour's kids.

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.
so God will not be angry of people praying to carved gods ?

"Praying TO carved gods" means worshiping the object itself. As the object itself is but a physical object, and clearly is not God, this behaviour is not right.

Praying before carved statues, using the image to help focus a human mind, is not idolatry. Idolatry is the worship of the thing itself. (When you were younger, didn't you prefer to read books that had pictures in them?)

Anyway, Idolatry as a wrong has a far greater significance now to us in these times - unless you have not matured, and still feel the urge to sacrifice stuff and stone sinners -
to place something in our lives before God is idolatry. Since what we know of God is limited to the teachings we are aware of, then following the way of life that we have learned, which brings us closer to Him should be uppermost in our lives.

[QG]

I like that moses post

[megadoc1]

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.
so God will not be angry of people praying to carved gods ?

"Praying TO carved gods" means worshiping the object itself. As the object itself is but a physical object, and clearly is not God, this behaviour is not right. cool

Praying before carved statues, using the image to help focus a human mind, is not idolatry. Idolatry is the worship of the thing itself. (When you were younger, didn't you prefer to read books that had pictures in them?) ok but the children of Israel learnt that God created man in his own image and likeness, with that said if they wanted an image to help focus a human mind on God
wouldn't looking at each other be sufficient?

Anyway, Idolatry as a wrong has a far greater significance now to us in these times - unless you have not matured, and still feel the urge to sacrifice stuff and stone sinners -
to place something in our lives before God is idolatry. Since what we know of God is limited to the teachings we are aware of, then following the way of life that we have learned, which brings us closer to Him should be uppermost in our lives.this is opposite to what God does,it is not what we learn that bring us closer to God all we need to do is call on Him, yes call on the name Jesus and invite him into our hearts and allow Him to train us in His ways
what brings us closer to God is governed by how much we desire to be close to Him
and the more you get of Him is the more you want of Him because he already loves us ,it is just for us to love him back
a lot of people claim to love God ,if so why not let him in?
Revelation 3:20
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
why go making a way to God when HE came to you and made a way for you to follow,?
why the urge to go to God on your own when He is willing to take you by the hand?
is that not pride?(the fall of satan)

[Computerman]

Revelation 3:20
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
why go making a way to God when HE came to you and made a way for you to follow,?
why the urge to go to God on your own when He is willing to take you by the hand?
is that not pride?(the fall of satan)

Holy Quran 2.257: Allah is the Protector of those who have faith: from the depths of darkness He will lead them forth into light. Of those who reject faith the patrons are the evil ones: from light they will lead them forth into the depths of darkness. They will be companions of the fire, to dwell therein.

Holy Quran 5.14: From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

Holy Quran 72.23: "Unless I proclaim what I receive from Allah and His Messages: for any that disobey Allah and His Messenger,- for them is Hell: they shall dwell therein for ever."

[megadoc1]

Computerman I fear that you haven't made up your mind on what position you hold
first you claimed that the religious texts are tools, constructed by man to control, confuse and manipulate the populous. then you turn around to quote them and you do so in irrelevancy (or mabe just may be its a failed attempt at what you think they were made for)
you tried both bible and Koran and what you quoted from them had nothing to do with what the discussion at hand (that you quoted)...you can continue if you want I no longer will take you on for sure but at the same time I think only a desperate man will take up on your posts

Holy Quran 5.14: From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

didn't you get the memo? most Muslims in this ched openly denied the hatred towards Christians as quoted above
ask and see

[Computerman]

Computerman I fear that you haven't made up your mind on what position you hold
first you claimed that the religious texts are tools, constructed by man to control, confuse and manipulate the populous. then you turn around to quote them and you do so in irrelevancy (or mabe just may be its a failed attempt at what you think they were made for)

Again you display your inability to comprehend what is written. I never said all religious texts! I said the Bible! You stated that the same could be said for all religious texts! I applauded your revelation, misguidedly so, for I thought you had realised that "the same could be said" was the key to unlock your myopic mind. But I was sadly mistaken!

you tried both bible and Koran and what you quoted from them had nothing to do with what the discussion at hand (that you quoted)...you can continue if you want I no longer will take you on for sure but at the same time I think only a desperate man will take up on your posts

Nothing to do with the discussion at hand?

why go making a way to God when HE came to you and made a way for you to follow

This was your statement. I was showing you that your statement is true, for many who do not share your beliefs. But your tunnel vision does not allow for such insight!

Holy Quran 5.14: From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.

most Muslims in this ched openly denied the hatred towards Christians as quoted above
ask and see

You have absoloutly no idea what that verse means do you?! Your inability to read, comprehend, rationalise and conclude has made you more dense than dark matter! Long live Stephen Hawking!

I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.

[Kasey]

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.
so God will not be angry of people praying to carved gods ?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)

Jeremiah 10
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

7Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.

8But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.

9Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

11Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

12He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

13When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

14Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

15They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.

obviously it is not to the same God

psalms 135:16
15The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

16They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;

17They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

18They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.

yep this guy needs to take another look at the bible
there is no way he could have been teaching Christianity

Buh wey de.....Megaduck, will you read the manual for Jigsaw to learn how to operate your Table saw? No you will have to read the appliance's respective manual obviously. You cannot apply the rules of one religion to another religion.

Again I will aggree with spikey here, and repeat, "We are not playing football, or going some kind of competetion, we are having a discussion". No one is purposefully condemning anyone else. Some people are joking around, but IMHO, that will not deter whatever I believe in, hence does not affect my state of mind.

"Religion is more than life. Remember that his own religion is the truest to every man even if it stands low in the scales of philosophical comparison".
--Mohandas Gandhi

[megadoc1]

I was not born yesterday. In this day and age, man has come to realise the logic of one supreme being. Even Hindus, who for centuries have been considered by the western world as being idolaters who worship a whole gang of gods, have pointed out that there is only one divine - all the "gods" are simply facets or manifestations of that divine being, enabling puny humans to focus easily on individual traits or actions of the divine; and that idolatry is wrong - the "murtis", though sacred due to WHAT they represent, are only representations, again, to help give the follower focus.
so God will not be angry of people praying to carved gods ?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)

Jeremiah 10
1Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:

2Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.

3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

6Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.

7Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.

8But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.

9Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.

10But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.

11Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.

12He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.

13When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.

14Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

15They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.

obviously it is not to the same God

psalms 135:16
15The idols of the heathen are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.

16They have mouths, but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;

17They have ears, but they hear not; neither is there any breath in their mouths.

18They that make them are like unto them: so is every one that trusteth in them.

yep this guy needs to take another look at the bible
there is no way he could have been teaching Christianity

Buh wey de.....Megaduck, will you read the manual for Jigsaw to learn how to operate your Table saw? No you will have to read the appliance's respective manual obviously. You cannot apply the rules of one religion to another religion. breds read again the man claimed that it is the same saw

Again I will aggree with spikey here, and repeat, "We are not playing football, or going some kind of competetion, yea its a serious matter of life and death so why the games?this is a battle already won by Jesus, the only ones who lost are those who did not follow him
or fight against him
we are having a discussion". No one is purposefully condemning anyone else. Some people are joking around, but IMHO, that will not deter whatever I believe in, hence does not affect my state of mind.

"Religion is more than life. Remember that his own religion is the truest to every man even if it stands low in the scales of philosophical comparison".
--Mohandas Gandhi

*appends kassey to ignore list*

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

page 189

any proof yet??
no?!

ok carry on, I can't see megadoc1 proving his claims any time soon anyway.

their "probably" is no different from any one elses "probably"
but they beat up on everyone elses thinking.

[megadoc1]

we don't have a probably
and I cannot prove anything on tunner so you are right when you say
"I can't see megadoc1 proving his claims any time soon anyway."

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

we don't have a probably
and I cannot prove anything on tunner so you are right when you say
"I can't see megadoc1 proving his claims any time soon anyway."

my bad, I should have said "no one can see"

why can't you prove it here? I thought you and your group were powerful!?

You have no proof so you DO have a "probably".

your beliefs in Christianity are PROBABLY right; according to you, Roman Catholics are PROBABLY wrong and Hindus and Muslims are PROBABLY wrong. According to them, you are PROBABLY wrong. You cannot prove otherwise ANYWHERE.