The Religion Discussion

[megadoc1]

i suppose yuh goin to tell me that vid is fake ?

I gave you an opportunity to see similar things yourself
but you dare not take me up on that offer

I know the feeling

[sMASH]

Free Will vs. Predestination: Can’t Anyone
Give Me a HARD Problem to Solve?

My dachshund's namesake

Lately a couple of trouble-making readers have been asking my opinion on
the question of free will vs. predestination. For some time now I have
struggled mightily to ignore their queries; when finally forced by etiquette to
acknowledge them, I suggested, in hopes of distracting them, that they
upgrade their cable service, or invest in pets.
"You can watch Chinese soccer matches!" I tried. "And a dachshund can be
so much fun! They look like sausages--with free will!"
But, alas, they stayed on topic. "Stop trying to get out of it!" they responded

Choke up your opinion on predestination!"

The problem is that I've never been too interested in trying to suss out the
exact relationship between my free will and the idea of God's already
knowing my whole life. Once I tried to do some reading on the matter, but
right away bumped into words like "determinism," "Calvinism," and
"Arminianism."

So I ran out and bought a dachshund, which I named Emanuel Swedenborg.

And now determined readers are back at it. So let me solve the whole
question of free will vs. predestination, so that I can go back to watching
Chinese soccer.

Now then. I am sure I have free will. To prove it, I will now do an imitation
of Daffy Duck.
There. I did it. There's no way God could have predicted I would do that.

Ha! And now I just did an imitation of Daffy Duck imitating Road Runner!
And---ow. I think I hurt my throat.
But the point is: I decided to do that larynx-traumatizer all by myself.
There's no way that in any Book of Life written before time there's an entry
that says: "5:43 a.m. July 25, 2007. San Diego, California. Dork on couch
does imitation of Daffy Duck imitating Road Runner."

This proves, beyond question, that I have free will.

Except I don't want to have free will. Which is to say, I don't want to be able
to surprise God. A God so stuck in temporal time that he has to wait to see
what will happen next doesn't sound like a very inspiring, very All-Knowing
sort of deity. That sounds like ... me watching TV.

So forget that. God knows all. Period. That's not debatable.

So God did know I was going to wrench my poor little throat box!
And yet, he didn't stop me. How ... kind of him.
Okay, so what do we have here?

I think I have free will---but in actuality I don't, because God, knowing all, is
perfectly aware ahead of time of everything that I'll ever do, say, or think
Moreover, he causes me to do, say, and think everything I do. Because if he's all-knowing, then he must be all-powerful, since anyone who is all- knowing butnot all-powerful is just ... a nerd.

Say, you know what I think?
I think I'll take little Emanuel Swedenborg for a walk.

Okay, fine. I'll continue. Here is what I really think:

When we're outside of God's grace---when we've chosen to be Fallen Independent Types---we have free will, because we've then placed ourselves outside of God's purview. But when we're with God---when we've surrendered ourselves to the reality of
God's presence within us---then we don't have free will, because then our
will is subsumed by the larger will of God.

There. Done. That was easy.
How is it that Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and all those other brainy
theologians never thought of that?

Losers.

You know, sometimes I think Preeminent Theologian Types really just keep
pretending all of this stuff is so hard, so that they don't have to go out and
get real jobs. Then again, many philosophers and theologians were working
before the invention of television. Clearly, keeping themselves amused was more of a challenge for them than it is for, say, me.

*************************************************************
Blog:JohnShore .com

Very interesting concept.

that doesnt even sound plausible.

i think is a mixture of how spike say it is and god interfering every now and then, like sending angels and prophets etc.

miracles would be persons growing back limbs, raising from the dead, or both, or sumthing like the moon splitting in two and then reforming.

sparky, does one choose grace, or is it chosen for them? how does one come into the state of grace?
what can someone choose to do if they in grace but they cannot choose to do if they are not in grace?
what can't someone do when not in grace that they can in grace?


we have free will, for the most part. being theist or atheist, religious or not, does not increase or decrease the amount of freedom we have with our will. if i am a sinner or a disbeliever, i can still choose to eat a bobby or not eat a bobby, same way as if i am a church goer or a goody two shoes. we have free will, is what we choose to do with it... if is good/bad, selfless/selfish

[illumin@ti]

i suppose yuh goin to tell me that vid is fake ?

I gave you an opportunity to see similar things yourself
but you dare not take me up on that offer

I know the feeling

get real nah man, salvation and deliverance with theme music?

GET REAL. when u ready to talk about real things and not small church theatrics, then come. All this BS is proven theatrics...... no wait..... Benny Hinn's Jesus Jacket© is real too nah ?

[d spike]

i think is a mixture of how spike say it is and god interfering every now and then, like sending angels and prophets etc.

miracles would be persons growing back limbs, raising from the dead, or both, or sumthing like the moon splitting in two and then reforming.

sparky, does one choose grace, or is it chosen for them? how does one come into the state of grace?
what can someone choose to do if they in grace but they cannot choose to do if they are not in grace?
what can't someone do when not in grace that they can in grace?


we have free will, for the most part. being theist or atheist, religious or not, does not increase or decrease the amount of freedom we have with our will. if i am a sinner or a disbeliever, i can still choose to eat a bobby or not eat a bobby, same way as if i am a church goer or a goody two shoes. we have free will, is what we choose to do with it... if is good/bad, selfless/selfish

Based on what Christian doctrine teaches, anyone who claims to be a Christian, yet does not accept the concept of free will, is actually denying the infiniteness of his God's love for him - it's as simple as that.

You wouldn't take a group of pre-schoolers and give them lectures on anatomy and chemistry, in order to prepare them for a future career in medicine... in the same way, Man was allowed to grow and explore on his own, questioning and thinking, slowly maturing into the realization of God's existence. (to the spuds who like to decry what I say without first understanding what is said: I never said salvation is a home-grown thing... I am referring to the awareness of God.)
Prophets and suchlike are guideposts placed along our journey, giving guidance and advice - sometimes only for THAT time... Holding onto your rubber ducky to give you company while you bathe, in order that the monstrous things below the soap-suds don't bother you... is not considered reasonable behaviour anymore when you are 43.
Some people refuse to grow up.

Miracles are to fortify the faith of believers. Pushing miracles to aid conversion in today's world, brings the evangelist down to the level of the carny showman... "Step right up! Step right up! See the man with three hands! See the bearded lady! See the guy who can make cripples walk again!"

Nati, when jackass passing wit' rope draggin'... leave him, let him go.

[d spike]

i suppose yuh goin to tell me that vid is fake ?

I gave you an opportunity to see similar things yourself
but you dare not take me up on that offer

I know the feeling

Megadoc, When are you going to learn, boy?
Posting a video is only proof that you can post a video.
If you had posted video footage of what YOU claim to do, right here among the sand and crabs, then that would be a different story. (In fact, some were asking you to do precisely this, but as you seem to have difficulty deciphering other folks' posts, the lack of such is understandable.)
Of course, one can argue that there will always be naysayers who will mutter about staged footage... but that can be said about the clip you posted, and that didn't stop you... so go ahead and do yo' thing...

It won't bother me one way or the other, as I believe we all have a personal experience with God every moment of our lives - awareness is our problem - but if you have something to peddle, go brave...

If you really want to show Tunerland the truth of fundamental Christianity and the power of your faith, then check the end of St. Matthew's Gospel...
...the part that speaks of protection against poison and venomous snakes...
Why not drink some Paraquat and at the same time, cuddle a few mapipire balsain, a zanana, and a couple o' corals? Videotaping or streaming it live on tuner... I will certainly be watching ... and I'm sure Nati, MG and quite a few others will be viewing as well with bated breath... think about it

[b068755c]

Isnt it strange that the miracles only seem to happen within the confines of the well lit megachurches...almost like it was.....CHOREOGRAPHED for the benefit of the gullible sheeple!
If these godmen were so powerful and cared for the sick and dying of the world, then why dont they go to Haiti or Africa and CURE AIDS or do something really miraculous like regrow a limb...If they would do that i'd be front and center singing praises to sweet juicy jesus!

[sMASH]

^^ it commin now,,,, C G I...
like how kane used to shock undertaker with lightening

[sparky]

The air we breathe is enough to give praise for

[megadoc1]

Isnt it strange that the miracles only seem to happen within the confines of the well lit megachurches...almost like it was.....CHOREOGRAPHED for the benefit of the gullible sheeple! how about this ....... would you like to see this in the open? like in a mall or something, because it happens alot, why not bring someone who needs a miracle and let the grace of God shut you up
is the mall a good place for you to see this happen ?

If these godmen were so powerful and cared for the sick and dying of the world, then why dont they go to Haiti or Africa and CURE AIDS or do something really miraculous like regrow a limb...you are so far behind this is reported to be happening regularly If they would do that i'd be front and center singing praises to sweet juicy jesus! you better start because its been happening a long time now

i suppose yuh goin to tell me that vid is fake ?

I gave you an opportunity to see similar things yourself
but you dare not take me up on that offer

I know the feeling

get real nah man, salvation and deliverance with theme music?
that wasn't salvation or deliverance get your facts right ,it was simply a miracle
and the "theme music" is simply people giving praise to God and it is OK for you to have a problem with it
GET REAL. when u ready to talk about real things and not small church theatrics, then come. All this BS is proven theatrics......by who you ? when? c'mon that is what you want to believe?

no wait..... Benny Hinn's Jesus Jacket© is real too nah ? good one lol

[MG Man]

The air we breathe is enough to give praise for

the air we breathe is a byproduct of earlier life forms
what's praiseworthy abuot it?
Why don't you praise the malaria virus that kills so many around the world?

[Humes]

This thread genuinely too dumb too share anything of substance in.

[Humes]

Same.

[QG]

[cacasplat3]

What about the poor starving children who have been affected by water borne disease and are dying in pangs of hunger and pain beyond belief and the parents who must watch their children die from starvation and sickness? Why did God take them there?

Suffering is caused by sin. This is a burden we are all condemned to carry, in different ways, until we die.and this is where Jesus comes in, when his body was beaten and ripped it was for our healing and health so once you become a child of God sickness becomes a trespasser in your life and must be cast out , ALL who believe in Jesus Christ have this power
so what you all are saying, is that an innocent child born into famine and disease, is paying for the sins of others(because they are innocent they have no sins to pay for), and the way to get out of this suffering is to turn to Jesus? so if this child was born a Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist, and was never exposed to someone who knew of Christ (because you cannot expect someone to know about Jesus without being taught).....this child/person is destined to suffer for the rest of their life? is this what you are saying?
In this mortal world, it is Satan who is fighting a battle to keep us all in misery. He has messed up the economics of the world.

For all the talk about evolution, evolutionists have NO answer for the suffering that exists in the world nor how this suffering will end.no answer for ridding oneself of sin either and thats most important

God gives us hope and the promise of an eternal, brighter future beyond death.and his name is Jesus Christ

[scotty_buttons]

every person entitled to whatever they believe yes..
is amazing how huge this thread got since it started jus a year ago..n still goin

[MG Man]

it only this big because people quote the same twenty paragraphs and then add to them, then edit again, then quote in oversized fonts

[bluefete]

^^man eh no what to say, so his rebuttal is: he, and some ppl he make up, in 'Stalemate'. LAWD!!!

dOUBT that the small cords were made from bulls penis?

I think that Bluefete, like most Trinis, just happens to flap his jaw with his brain in Neutral, from time to time... He probably doesn't even know what a bull-pistle actually looks like, or thinks that the name is just facetiously given...
If the Hebrews, or any Semitic people for that matter, saved bulls' penises after butchering an animal, it would have been for food. As a source of protein, it would have been far too valuable to use as cordage. Fibrous plant material and hair were used to produce rope for the common man's use. Leather thonging was known, but not commonly used in that part of the world, as animal hides were far too valuable for such an application. Bridles for beasts of burden, for example, were made from hair.

There will always be doubt that the bible and the story of Adam and Eve is true, I guess we are at stalemate on this.

Whether the bible is "true" or not, is far too vague a point to argue - unless one is a fundamentalist, in which case the answer is, 'Yes, it is'. The bible is simply a collection of sacred writings, taken from a variety of sources, spanning centuries. Some parts are obviously fictitious - and this is said by the very people who wrote and treasured them... even those who later compiled those stories have, over time, come to admit such a thing. (Of course, the fundamentalists, of whom not a trace existed a few hundred years ago, know better )
The point is not whether the stories are true or not.. but what is taught by those very stories. The point of the story about the boy who cried 'wolf', is liars are not easily believed. The fact that no little boy actually pulled such a stunt, does not negate either the lesson or its importance.

Job and Jonah are Talmudic fables. The story of Job teaches that sometimes God allows things to happen that we may not understand... Jonah shows that God is forgiving in ways we might not agree... Whether or not the scripted events took place, does not change these points, neither are they lessened in any way.

The Garden of Eden story tries to explain why man's relationship with God is the way it is, and why humans are... well... human (it attempts to explain the source of our inherent frailties and shortcomings, how a being created in perfection could, at the same time, be damaged goods).

You are absolutely correct in the rationale behind these events. However, I don't agree that Job and Jonah were Talmudic Fables because Jesus used them in his teachings.

"An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth". (Matthew 12.39-40.)

Jesus confirmed that Nineveh's repentance came about as a result of their full knowledge of Jonah's ordeal of the preceding days. He made this quite plain when he said:

"Jonah became a sign to the men of Nineveh" (Luke 11.30)

A city of 200,000 people was saved because Jonah finally heeded his calling & delivered God's message to the king of Nineveh.

[bluefete]

For all the talk about evolution, evolutionists have NO answer for the suffering that exists in the world nor how this suffering will end.

Natural selection, only the strong will survive, suffering will never end.

This is where God comes in.

[bluefete]

If you really want to show Tunerland the truth of fundamental Christianity and the power of your faith, then check the end of St. Matthew's Gospel...
...the part that speaks of protection against poison and venomous snakes...
Why not drink some Paraquat and at the same time, cuddle a few mapipire balsain, a zanana, and a couple o' corals? Videotaping or streaming it live on tuner... I will certainly be watching ... and I'm sure Nati, MG and quite a few others will be viewing as well with bated breath... think about it

Oh Gosh Spike. Oh Gosh Spike. You sound like Caesar asking Jesus to prove his power. (Not that Doc is Jesus - Just referencing).

The point is that God still works miracles today. Sometimes even through these very "showmen".

Even medical science has documented cases of recoveries for which there is no medical explanation. (Is this how the evolutionary survival of the fittest is supposed to work?)

Strangely, you have made much sense in your God availability discussion.

[megadoc1]

so what you all are saying, is that an innocent child born into famine and disease, is paying for the sins of others(because they are innocent they have no sins to pay for),
no I am saying that anyone born of a man, is bound to suffer/die because we are born condemned (separated from God) it does not matter if you are rich or suffering famine and disease
and the way to get out of this suffering is to turn to Jesus? depends on which way you want to get out, if you want a temporal relief (your lifetime on earth) it can be found in a false god (the devil is behind them all) or you can seek eternal relief which can only be found in Jesus Christ son of the living Godso if this child was born a Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist, it does not mater, even if you born a "christian" you will still need to know Jesus and was never exposed to someone who knew of Christ (because you cannot expect someone to know about Jesus without being taught) it is not what you know about Jesus, it is a matter of you knowing him,first you hear about him then if you believe ,you invite him in your heart he comes in ...you get eternal life..plus he reveals himself to you
but there are manny people going around thinking it is how much you know about him
and acquire the world of knowledge about him yet never knew him...this child/person is destined to suffer for the rest of their life?not only this life but for eternity is this what you are saying?absolutely ...... all this was said and a whole lot more about a hundred pages aback

[bluefete]

What about the poor starving children who have been affected by water borne disease and are dying in pangs of hunger and pain beyond belief and the parents who must watch their children die from starvation and sickness? Why did God take them there?

Suffering is caused by sin. This is a burden we are all condemned to carry, in different ways, until we die.and this is where Jesus comes in, when his body was beaten and ripped it was for our healing and health so once you become a child of God sickness becomes a trespasser in your life and must be cast out , ALL who believe in Jesus Christ have this power
so what you all are saying, is that an innocent child born into famine and disease, is paying for the sins of others(because they are innocent they have no sins to pay for), and the way to get out of this suffering is to turn to Jesus? so if this child was born a Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist, and was never exposed to someone who knew of Christ (because you cannot expect someone to know about Jesus without being taught).....this child/person is destined to suffer for the rest of their life? is this what you are saying? NO!
In this mortal world, it is Satan who is fighting a battle to keep us all in misery. He has messed up the economics of the world.

For all the talk about evolution, evolutionists have NO answer for the suffering that exists in the world nor how this suffering will end.no answer for ridding oneself of sin either and that's most important

God gives us hope and the promise of an eternal, brighter future beyond death.and his name is Jesus Christ

[megadoc1]

If you really want to show Tunerland the truth of fundamental Christianity and the power of your faith, then check the end of St. Matthew's Gospel...
...the part that speaks of protection against poison and venomous snakes...
Why not drink some Paraquat and at the same time, cuddle a few mapipire balsain, a zanana, and a couple o' corals? Videotaping or streaming it live on tuner... I will certainly be watching ... and I'm sure Nati, MG and quite a few others will be viewing as well with bated breath... think about it

Oh Gosh Spike. Oh Gosh Spike. You sound like Caesar asking Jesus to prove his power. (Not that Doc is Jesus - Just referencing).

The point is that God still works miracles today. Sometimes even through these very "showmen".

Even medical science has documented cases of recoveries for which there is no medical explanation. (Is this how the evolutionary survival of the fittest is supposed to work?)

Strangely, you have made much sense in your God availability discussion.

bluefete, d spike knows this its just that it contradicts his teachings
take a look

Miracles are to fortify the faith of believers. Pushing miracles to aid conversion in today's world, brings the evangelist down to the level of the carny showman... "Step right up! Step right up! See the man with three hands! See the bearded lady! See the guy who can make cripples walk again!"

then look at mark 16:17-
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

cool but check the last verse


19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following . Amen.


can we say then that the word of God is to be confirmed with signs and wonders?
or should we listen to spike ?
and if you go into the book of acts you will see this was the method of
spreading the word of God
now if Christians hold onto the way it was done from ever since
even when Jesus was here how can we be wrong?
Jesus even promised us greater works because he was going back to glory
Jesus presented himself with signs and wonders and now he works the power tru anyone who believes in him

when jackass passing wit' rope draggin'... leave him, let him go

but

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

[bluefete]

it only this big because people quote the same twenty paragraphs and then add to them, then edit again, then quote in oversized fonts

You just jealous!!

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ like God?

[bluefete]

If you really want to show Tunerland the truth of fundamental Christianity and the power of your faith, then check the end of St. Matthew's Gospel...
...the part that speaks of protection against poison and venomous snakes...
Why not drink some Paraquat and at the same time, cuddle a few mapipire balsain, a zanana, and a couple o' corals? Videotaping or streaming it live on tuner... I will certainly be watching ... and I'm sure Nati, MG and quite a few others will be viewing as well with bated breath... think about it

Oh Gosh Spike. Oh Gosh Spike. You sound like Caesar asking Jesus to prove his power. (Not that Doc is Jesus - Just referencing).

The point is that God still works miracles today. Sometimes even through these very "showmen".

Even medical science has documented cases of recoveries for which there is no medical explanation. (Is this how the evolutionary survival of the fittest is supposed to work?)

Strangely, you have made much sense in your God availability discussion.

bluefete, d spike knows this its just that it contradicts his teachings
take a look

Miracles are to fortify the faith of believers. Pushing miracles to aid conversion in today's world, brings the evangelist down to the level of the carny showman... "Step right up! Step right up! See the man with three hands! See the bearded lady! See the guy who can make cripples walk again!"

then look at mark 16:17-
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

cool but check the last verse


19So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following . Amen.


can we say then that the word of God is to be confirmed with signs and wonders?
or should we listen to spike ?
and if you go into the book of acts you will see this was the method of
spreading the word of God
now if Christians hold onto the way it was done from ever since
even when Jesus was here how can we be wrong?
Jesus even promised us greater works because he was going back to glory
Jesus presented himself with signs and wonders and now he works the power through anyone who believes in him

True. After all that, we finally understand that he (Spikey) is on our side after all.

[bluefete]

^ like God?

Unfortunately, that is a different kind of jealously.

[bluefete]

This thread has caused me to reflect on the work of Jesus Christ and the fact that he did so many of his miracles in public.

We have so many eyewitness testimonies of Jesus' miracles (especially that of Lazarus) that even today, it is difficult to reject them.

When God works his miracles today, we have the scientific aspect from doctors who do not want to ascribe credit to the Master. Many would rather leave it as an unknown but there are a few who genuinely use the word "miracle" to describe these occurrences.

[d spike]

The point is not whether the stories are true or not.. but what is taught by those very stories. The point of the story about the boy who cried 'wolf', is liars are not easily believed. The fact that no little boy actually pulled such a stunt, does not negate either the lesson or its importance.

Job and Jonah are Talmudic fables. The story of Job teaches that sometimes God allows things to happen that we may not understand... Jonah shows that God is forgiving in ways we might not agree... Whether or not the scripted events took place, does not change these points, neither are they lessened in any way.

The Garden of Eden story tries to explain why man's relationship with God is the way it is, and why humans are... well... human (it attempts to explain the source of our inherent frailties and shortcomings, how a being created in perfection could, at the same time, be damaged goods).

You are absolutely correct in the rationale behind these events. However, I don't agree that Job and Jonah were Talmudic Fables because Jesus used them in his teachings.

Whether you agree or not doesn't change what they are. I never said they originated in the Talmud... they were scholars' fables used by Jewish teachers before Jesus' time (that's how he knew about them) that were considered quite important, so much so that they were considered scripture. Just ask someone who knows, nah...
Before you twang your jaw, do your research... it will save you from making faux pas like this one, or the one about Hebrew bull-dick rope...

[cacasplat3]

so what you all are saying, is that an innocent child born into famine and disease, is paying for the sins of others(because they are innocent they have no sins to pay for),
no I am saying that anyone born of a man, is bound to suffer/die because we are born condemned (separated from God) it does not matter if you are rich or suffering famine and disease
and the way to get out of this suffering is to turn to Jesus? depends on which way you want to get out, if you want a temporal relief (your lifetime on earth) it can be found in a false god (the devil is behind them all) or you can seek eternal relief which can only be found in Jesus Christ son of the living Godso if this child was born a Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist, it does not mater, even if you born a "christian" you will still need to know Jesus and was never exposed to someone who knew of Christ (because you cannot expect someone to know about Jesus without being taught) it is not what you know about Jesus, it is a matter of you knowing him,first you hear about him then if you believe ,you invite him in your heart he comes in ...you get eternal life..plus he reveals himself to you
but there are manny people going around thinking it is how much you know about him
and acquire the world of knowledge about him yet never knew him...this child/person is destined to suffer for the rest of their life?not only this life but for eternity is this what you are saying?absolutely ...... all this was said and a whole lot more about a hundred pages aback

so what you are saying is that, every single person born to man/woman is condemned because they are away from God .....and as a result may suffer, and eventually die? its a bit melodramatic, don't you think? if this is the case, then why are born in the first place? to suffer?
i was not making reference to how much you know of Jesus and God (sorry if i led-you to believe that), what i meant, was that: if in someone's lifetime, they were never ever exposed to the teachings of Jesus, so they have no idea of this train of thought....none! they do not even know the name Jesus. how is it that this person can be denied of "eternal life"?

What about the poor starving children who have been affected by water borne disease and are dying in pangs of hunger and pain beyond belief and the parents who must watch their children die from starvation and sickness? Why did God take them there?

Suffering is caused by sin. This is a burden we are all condemned to carry, in different ways, until we die.and this is where Jesus comes in, when his body was beaten and ripped it was for our healing and health so once you become a child of God sickness becomes a trespasser in your life and must be cast out , ALL who believe in Jesus Christ have this power
so what you all are saying, is that an innocent child born into famine and disease, is paying for the sins of others(because they are innocent they have no sins to pay for), and the way to get out of this suffering is to turn to Jesus? so if this child was born a Muslim, or Hindu, or Buddhist, and was never exposed to someone who knew of Christ (because you cannot expect someone to know about Jesus without being taught).....this child/person is destined to suffer for the rest of their life? is this what you are saying? NO!
In this mortal world, it is Satan who is fighting a battle to keep us all in misery. He has messed up the economics of the world.

For all the talk about evolution, evolutionists have NO answer for the suffering that exists in the world nor how this suffering will end.no answer for ridding oneself of sin either and that's most important

God gives us hope and the promise of an eternal, brighter future beyond death.and his name is Jesus Christ

so if this is not what is being said, then what is? because mdoc, just said it is.............



also again, i quote:

My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'.

-David Attenborough
who cares to comment on this quote?

[megadoc1]

This thread has caused me to reflect on the work of Jesus Christ and the fact that he did so many of his miracles in public.

We have so many eyewitness testimonies of Jesus' miracles (especially that of Lazarus) that even today, it is difficult to reject them.

When God works his miracles today, we have the scientific aspect from doctors who do not want to ascribe credit to the Master. Many would rather leave it as an unknown but there are a few who genuinely use the word "miracle" to describe these occurrences.

the god of this world will never rest at this
Christians have something thats beyond measure , their God lives inside them
and exercises his power thru them and thats something the god of this world
cannot match so the only way he can succeed is if he convince the world and even Christians
that they dont have that power