The Religion Discussion

[d spike]

what is christianity? is it the following of the teachings of christ, is it the living in the way that he did, or is it just believing that he is god, or his son?

which ever it is, the concept comes from the book commonly called the bible. if there was no bible, there would be no concept of trinity. the proof of that would be in places which are inhabited after christ's time do not spontaneously have that concept. their deities, if more than one, are deemed pagan polytheism by the popular christians.
the concept of jesus being god or his son is unique and not universal.

that concept of the trinity or god-head ( why does that sound like goat head to me, while christians believe the goat represents satan). it comes from the bible.

was any of it today directly translated from what christ wrote? no
was any of it today directly translated from what was dictated by christ? no
was any of it today directly translated from what was written from being christ's audience? no

the earliest any one was writing any thing attributed to christ was about 80yrs after his supposed crucifixion.
the earliest manuscripts which are/were used to come up with the bible cannot be certified as the exact words of christ.
in fact, they are referred to 'the gospel according to.....'
so, it is not entirely probable that those words, nor even most of them are actually what was intended by christ. there are too many variables in that mix, and still nothing really close to him which can be authenticated reasonably.

Before I delve into this... let me just ask which Christians "believe the goat represents satan"?

Smash, are you attempting to say the possibility exists that Jesus did not exist? Or his life/words were not exactly what his followers believe?
So...? And...? Your point is...?
I would hate to think that you are suffering from the same problem as Megadoc et al... the fundamentalist's need to PROVE his religion is real, is true, the stories really happened... simply because, his faith, despite what he claims, is not enough for him - for his faith isn't real. What he calls faith is really a warped version of true faith. An acceptance of ignorance isn't faith, neither is blackmailing a supposed deity into admitting you into his presence. Faith is reaching for God, believing Him to be there. To find Him is to be forever searching for Him.

So the Koran has never been cross-translated, and is still in the original Arabic, how nice. So what if the Disciples never wrote Jesus' words down, but what we have is translations of the recollections of the disciples of those Disciples... what about it?
(Before any hot-blooded young jack hops off his Jesusmobile to pound me, take a look on the internet first. I am sure this info is posted somewhere there. I suffer from the maladjustment of reading books.)
The disciples simply assumed from the way that Jesus spoke, that he was returning soon, in their lifetime, and they kept this belief alive. When they, and then their own disciples, started passing away, the church came to a realisation that maybe Jesus wasn't coming back that soon, and so written information became a necessity. The words of Jesus moved from an oral tradition to a written one within the first three centuries.

My point is, whatever you believe, that is your belief - and you have a right to that. It just so happens that one must do so while respecting the rights of others. Smash believes in Islam, I say good. He is doing what he believes is right, finding his way to that which he believes caused him to be here. A Muslim suicide bomber is following what he believes to be right, but he is doing so in a way that is detrimental and disregards the rights of others. This is wrong.
A Christian does what he believes is right, finding his way to that which he believes caused him to be here, just the same as a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist or a member of the Holy Order of Mango-eaters. When Megadoc decides he has a right to disregard the rights of others to believe what they wish to believe, and to not be insulted or offended by being told they are going to Hell, then he is wrong.

I don't eat octopus, monkey or broccoli. I certainly don't insult or offend those who do.

Cheers.

[megadoc1]

Megadoc, what is your problem with Gandhi? All that nonsense you fill your head with, and you still haven't grasped the core of the Christian belief? How you view others and how you treat them... Whatever rules or guidelines Gandhi lived by is how he will be judged... not you. Don't you have rules? It is by those you will be judged. Stop trying to apply the yardstick you use on yourself to others. I have told you this here already and elsewhere as well, but you still keep bawling the same thing... like an old woman at the standpipe, while the water runs...

Allyuh know what dem so problem is? Lemme tell yuh... is ah set ah jealousy dat does be rotting dey guts...
Let me explain. One of the biggest threats against a truly spiritual character is materialism. Once you realise that poverty only exists when you want something other than what you have, and you become happy/contented with whatever you have at any time, then the next step in your spiritual journey become easier.
These newbie christians (so-called followers of Christ) have "decided to follow Jesus"... for a variety of reasons, many of which they would not be comfortable admitting: their girlfriend/wife made an ultimatum, or they are trying to impress someone (their families, sometimes themselves); they got into a situation they couldn't back out of easily; or, as in a case made known here, they got a glimpse of the horror that many believe awaits those who refuse to accept the importance of loving others in this life (hell, nah) and got scared sh!tless - it is sad that the torment of hell could appear more real to folks than the reality of love. All of these conditions do not negate the adoration of the materialistic life in these folks. Therefore, they look back longingly at their "old" life (making sure their "street cred" remains, by letting drop "how many girls they screwed, what cars they drove, how they were feared, how they blinged" and so on, in their "testimonies" eagerly and often delivered) and also, view with envy disguised as scepticism, folks that have stepped away from materialism - like poor old Gandhi.
They also demand that EVERYBODY ELSE "suffers" the same treatment they are made to undergo - real 'little-boy' mentality, "If I have to take this, allyuh must too, eh" - and it really pains them to see others walk a SEEMINGLY easier, different path... and get inside. I say "seemingly", as no one except that person knows exactly what he had to undergo in his journey back to the source of love. They obviously can't express this hurt, so they project it as "We way is de ONLY way, and allyuh on de outside done for!"

It also is a major point to note that 'logic' and 'rational thinking' is sneered at by these good folks, as the kind of people who are drawn to fundamentalist religions are those who have problems thinking for themselves (or simply, problems thinking) and so are happy to have rigid rules drawn up for them along a simple fool-proof formula: "do exactly this, an yuh going to heaven". They, in turn, are glad for a chance to sneer and heap scorn on their learned betters - turning the tables, so to speak, on those they percieve to have sneered and scorned them for their inabilities all their life, in school, at work, and so forth.

All this is clearly seen in this remarkable thread.

Cheers.

your opinion right?

[Sky]

^^ Well you scattered evidence of his "opinion" all over this thread. Better clean it up.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

[sMASH]

toyo, back to me....
got busy http://www.islam101.com/quran/preservedQ.htm

to explain how do i know as i said,, my religion tells me this, like ur religion tell u that. the point i am trying to make is wrt the authenticity of the books where u get ur theology from.
your book, BY COMPARISON, is less likely to be true to what was originally intended, when considering the chain of events up to the previous to its compilation.
the original first manuscripts are not available, but the originals for mines are
and mines tell me that none other will remain in their original forms, except for this one, which is how it is,,,,, so stuff kinda being fulfilled there.

but without the little revelation about why none other will remain in their original forms,,
the mere fact that the fidelity of the other texts are very questionable when compared is enough for me... like what scientists do before the analyze facts, the scrutinize the source of the facts first, if the source is questionable, most likely the facts are as well and any further investigation would subsequently be futile

[megadoc1]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

^I do not know
but lets say we "evolved " can science tell what it did or was before?

[illumin@ti]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

^I do not know
but lets say we "evolved " can science tell what it did or was before?

I suppose you'd tell us to get on our knees and pray for this divine revelation???

[Sky]

toyo, back to me....
got busy http://www.islam101.com/quran/preservedQ.htm

to explain how do i know as i said,, my religion tells me this, like ur religion tell u that. the point i am trying to make is wrt the authenticity of the books where u get ur theology from.
your book, BY COMPARISON, is less likely to be true to what was originally intended, when considering the chain of events up to the previous to its compilation.
the original first manuscripts are not available, but the originals for mines are
and mines tell me that none other will remain in their original forms, except for this one, which is how it is,,,,, so stuff kinda being fulfilled there.

but without the little revelation about why none other will remain in their original forms,,
the mere fact that the fidelity of the other texts are very questionable when compared is enough for me... like what scientists do before the analyze facts, the scrutinize the source of the facts first, if the source is questionable, most likely the facts are as well and any further investigation would subsequently be futile

Why'd you shake someone's faith like that?

[Chimera]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

^I do not know
but lets say we "evolved " can science tell what it did or was before?

I suppose you'd tell us to get on our knees and pray for this divine revelation???

you brave enough to get on your knees around megadoc?

[d spike]

Doesn't the first quote explain the second (and negate the need for Toyo, or any bible-pounder, to respond?

my religion tells me this, like ur religion tell u that

and mines tell me that none other will remain in their original forms

I agree that the bible is a compilation of scriptures that spans a large quantity of time, cultures, viewpoints, and even spans religions, but the query about its authenticity raises questions that, if answered, I would be grateful. Just because translations were made, does not mean:
all the translations were wrong;
the originals (and references to the originals) were lost;
or further translations were based on previous translations.

the point i am trying to make is wrt the authenticity of the books where u get ur theology from... (I assume you meant the bible at this point)

your book, BY COMPARISON, is less likely to be true to what was originally intended, when considering the chain of events up to the previous to its compilation...

the original first manuscripts are not available...

the mere fact that the fidelity of the other texts are very questionable when compared is enough for me...

[d spike]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

^I do not know
but lets say we "evolved " can science tell what it did or was before?

Ohhh, ignorance is bliss fo' de tambourine man!!!
Megadoc... look up "caecum", nah...

[megadoc1]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

^I do not know
but lets say we "evolved " can science tell what it did or was before?

Ohhh, ignorance is bliss fo' de tambourine man!!!
Megadoc... look up "caecum", nah...

so does it have a purpose or not?

[Sky]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

^I do not know
but lets say we "evolved " can science tell what it did or was before?

What does it matter? Adam and Eve were the two first homosapiens.

Y'know what gets me...

The fact that humans MUST have an answer.
We always portray aliens to be evil and they're feared. The unknown is always feared. Like death. Who knows what happens when you die.
What's funny is that muslims and christians are tied so close together. Jerusalem, Abraham, God himself. But they biggest thing they have in common is the insane desire to rip on other religions. This 102 page thread is a grain of sand in the war between these two. And I really wonder if anyone ever actually GOT IT. It doesn't matter what religion you're in. The point is to make you behave. I won't be surprised if they found some literature about some folks starting religions a long time ago to battle normal human natures. Lust, greed, stealing to survive, killing to survive and when pissed.
That would rock the world.

But this isn't enough. The human needs to feel comfortable, knowing that when they die that's not the end. So religion comes into play and perverts what the original plan was.

The Same Gandhi that was condemned to hell by a self proclaimed authority said it best. Jesus didn't turn away a whore, yet a man calling another a demon because he pulled up his socks. On the other hand there's another man talking about his religion vs another wrt authenticity and literature. Yes King James had the bible translated, and YES they twisted it to suit themselves, and YES there's the originial bible around. But does that make it right to talk down on it when your own religion finds it right to kill people that don't share their comfort zone? It's not.

102 pages gone and I see only ONE person who got the point. Take care of yourselves, take care of each other and know there is a higher being looking over you.
It doesn't matter if you pray to a statue of a woman who pushed a baby through a hymen
It doesn't matter if you grope beads.
It doesn't matter if you make noises.
It doesn't matter if you grab a mat at a certain time every day
It doesn't matter that you consume things that represent GOOD.
It doesn't matter what you rub on yourself.
It doesn't matter if you make statues of past prophets and ask their spirits for guadance.
What matters is how you live your life. How you treat yourself and those around you. If everyone observed that then the human race would grow as a species.

The worst part is that the two biggest religions are the worst at doing this.

[megadoc1]

and round and round we go
Good question MG Man

why did God create us with an appendix?

Science tells us how our appendix got to the point of being obsolete.
Does religion say why did God create us with an appendix??

^I do not know
but lets say we "evolved " can science tell what it did or was before?

I suppose you'd tell us to get on our knees and pray for this divine revelation???

you brave enough to get on your knees around megadoc?

doh let me have to call yuh

[illumin@ti]

Mega , stop playing games ,,, respond to what i left there for u TWICE. DOh insult me by playin yuh eh see it

[megadoc1]

Mega , stop playing games ,,, respond to what i left there for u TWICE. DOh insult me by playin yuh eh see it

I aint got time for you doo doo

[illumin@ti]

as expected Doc.... as expected..

Yuh really need to take some time and evaluate ur mental health tho. I think you can get that done easy in st ann's.

[megadoc1]

if that statement comforts you ........be comfortable

[Chimera]

ahh megadoc1, ure fellow believers say you are a satan worshipper and are misguided and confused.

hard luck dey breds, yuh own brothers disown u,

[megadoc1]

what did they say about the word of God
that I posted ?
i think thats most important
did they say it is truth?

[zcarz]

http://www.evanwiggs.com/articles/infinite.html

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

easy there Sky, we reiterated your point early on in this thread but only want to continue the conversation based on individual beliefs

megadoc1
"The most common explanation for the appendix's existence in humans is that it's a vestigial structure which has lost its original function.

The vermiform appendage—in which some recent medical writers have vainly endeavoured to find a utility—is the shrunken remainder of a large and normal intestine of a remote ancestor. This interpretation would stand even if it were found to have a certain use in the human body. Vestigial organs are sometimes pressed into a secondary use when their original function has been lost.

One potential ancestral purpose put forth by Charles Darwin was that the appendix was used for digesting leaves as primates. It may be a vestigial organ, evolutionary baggage, of ancient humans that has degraded down to nearly nothing over the course of evolution. Evidence can be seen in herbivorous animals such as the koala. The cecum of the koala is very long, enabling it to host bacteria specific for cellulose breakdown. Human ancestors may have also relied upon this system and lived on a diet rich in foliage. As people began to eat more easily digested foods, they became less reliant on cellulose-rich plants for energy. The cecum became less necessary for digestion and mutations that previously had been deleterious were no longer selected against. These alleles became more frequent and the cecum continued to shrink. After thousands of years, the once-necessary cecum has degraded to what we see today, with the appendix".

also read about Vestigiality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestigial_structure

[megadoc1]

easy there Sky, we reiterated your point early on in this thread but only want to continue the conversation based on individual beliefs

megadoc1
"The most common explanation for the appendix's existence in humans is that it's a vestigial structure which has lost its original function.

The vermiform appendage—in which some recent medical writers have vainly endeavoured to find a utility—is the shrunken remainder of a large and normal intestine of a remote ancestor. This interpretation would stand even if it were found to have a certain use in the human body. Vestigial organs are sometimes pressed into a secondary use when their original function has been lost.

One potential ancestral purpose put forth by Charles Darwin was that the appendix was used for digesting leaves as primates. It may be a vestigial organ, evolutionary baggage, of ancient humans that has degraded down to nearly nothing over the course of evolution. Evidence can be seen in herbivorous animals such as the koala. The cecum of the koala is very long, enabling it to host bacteria specific for cellulose breakdown. Human ancestors may have also relied upon this system and lived on a diet rich in foliage. As people began to eat more easily digested foods, they became less reliant on cellulose-rich plants for energy. The cecum became less necessary for digestion and mutations that previously had been deleterious were no longer selected against. These alleles became more frequent and the cecum continued to shrink. After thousands of years, the once-necessary cecum has degraded to what we see today, with the appendix".

also read about Vestigiality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestigial_structure

so then it is safe to say it had function
and it wasn't something God created that did not do its job nor have a purpose.
so why are we asking "why did God created it?"

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ perhaps I typed it too quickly for you to understand

One potential ancestral purpose ... was that the appendix was used for digesting leaves as primates

are you agreeing that evolution takes place?

[megadoc1]

i found this online can we verify this?
http://creation.com/your-appendix-its-t ... r-a-reason

Today, the appendix is recognized as a highly specialized organ with a rich blood supply. This is not what we would expect from a degenerate, useless structure.

The appendix contains a high concentration of lymphoid follicles. These are highly specialized structures which are a part of the immune system. The clue to the appendix’s function is found in its strategic position right where the small bowel meets the large bowel or colon. The colon is loaded with bacteria which are useful there, but which must be kept away from other areas such as the small bowel and the bloodstream.

Through the cells in these lymphoid follicles, and the antibodies they make (see box below), the appendix is ‘involved in the control of which essential bacteria come to reside in the caecum and colon in neonatal life’.6 Like the very important thymus gland in our chest, it is likely that the appendix plays its major role in early childhood. It is also probably involved in helping the body recognize early in life that certain foodstuffs, bacterially derived substances, and even some of the body’s own gut enzymes, need to be tolerated and not seen as ‘foreign’ substances needing attack.

[megadoc1]

nismotrinidappa since you decided to hide can I use this as your answer ?
are you really "genuine" or legit as you said?

toyo682..

the bible is subject to interpretation

as i said before...salvation is an ongoing thing...

why do you need to go confession?

to get salvation you need to confess and repent as i told you before....good... now you are saved and have salvation..

BUT

you are human..the minute you leave your room or church you may sin in thoughts words and deeds.....yes you .. you mr toyo with all your ba in thelogy may be sinning right now thinking what the arse nonsense dis man saying..

there you sinned right....
therefore you need to seek salvation ..again and again and again... for the rest of your life you are human and make mistakes and pray for forgiveness


in other words you are hardly ever saved "permanently" you have no vip all inclusive ticket to heaven...

because of your faith you have a invite to the heavenly party in pier 1.. you are here to do good works in his name and get paid for it.. because you cant reach without any money/ good works /love for fellow man...and on that journey you have to resist the offers to go "other clubs"

so if you think you have your membership card and it valid thats your business..

i going about it the normal old fashioned way by faith, trying to live the right life and helping your fellow man

capiche?

oho btw...what has god said about the world today and what is happening to it?
and also what did he say about the general elections in trinidad? do you know?

what you really think salvation is about?
we need to have a serious talk, God loves you and he wants you to know the truth

[Sky]

easy there Sky, we reiterated your point early on in this thread but only want to continue the conversation based on individual beliefs

*kicks pebble and sulks*

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

http://www.evanwiggs.com/articles/infinite.html

That whole thing is based on "proof" such as

if we take a look at the birth of Jesus in verses 18-25, we find:The Number of words is 161 (23 X 7)

however there are many versions of the Bible such as the King James Version, each with a different word count as things are written differently in modern language, also this is for the English version as the Bible in another language, such as French will not have 161 words in verses 18-25.

[Chimera]

easy there Sky, we reiterated your point early on in this thread but only want to continue the conversation based on individual beliefs

*kicks pebble and sulks*

bwdmc..jus so u go kick pebble..what she do u

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

i found this online can we verify this?
http://creation.com/your-appendix-its-t ... r-a-reason

Today, the appendix is recognized as a highly specialized organ with a rich blood supply. This is not what we would expect from a degenerate, useless structure.

The appendix contains a high concentration of lymphoid follicles. These are highly specialized structures which are a part of the immune system. The clue to the appendix’s function is found in its strategic position right where the small bowel meets the large bowel or colon. The colon is loaded with bacteria which are useful there, but which must be kept away from other areas such as the small bowel and the bloodstream.

Through the cells in these lymphoid follicles, and the antibodies they make (see box below), the appendix is ‘involved in the control of which essential bacteria come to reside in the caecum and colon in neonatal life’.6 Like the very important thymus gland in our chest, it is likely that the appendix plays its major role in early childhood. It is also probably involved in helping the body recognize early in life that certain foodstuffs, bacterially derived substances, and even some of the body’s own gut enzymes, need to be tolerated and not seen as ‘foreign’ substances needing attack.

again you return to a Christian website to learn about Science. What did you expect to find there except a biased point of view?

Again you fail to read what people write in their posts

Vestigial organs are sometimes pressed into a secondary use when their original function has been lost.

natural selection selects for larger appendices because smaller and thinner appendices would be more susceptible to inflammation and disease. There would be no need to "create" an appendix as the large intestine and caecum can already provide this role of harbouring bacteria to break down cellulose.

It is especially interesting though how you are quick to quote some scientific fact only when it supports your own belief but then discard the rest of science when it goes against what you want to believe.

Science does not pick and choose what it wants to hear.
Science often proves itself wrong and works hard at doing so.