ok lets discuss this one 3 way front stage installation

[silent_riot]

nervewrecker, without the proper processing, you will be shooting yourself in the foot from the start. I don't think you have a head unit or processor with time alignment or proper crossovers, correct me if I am wrong?

My advice is to stick with a 2 way until you have the proper tools to play with a 3 way.
There are 2 ways in active competition with decent results.

[nervewrecker]

nervewrecker, without the proper processing, you will be shooting yourself in the foot from the start. I don't think you have a head unit or processor with time alignment or proper crossovers, correct me if I am wrong?

My advice is to stick with a 2 way until you have the proper tools to play with a 3 way.
There are 2 ways in active competition with decent results.

nope, I dont.....yet.

[GVTrini07]

I saw mention of a tweet near the mid in the kick, will it be wise to use a coaxial for the mid in that case?

Yup, if you can get a good quality coaxial, go for it.

You can try various point source rather than normal coaxials. You don't need to place a 6.5 speaker in kicks, there are smaller drivers which can work depending on budget, tuning requirements, application etc.

Just and example -
Hybrid Audio - L4 or L3 - Wideband
Morel Integra Ovation 4" or 5"- Point source - built like a co-axial however both tweet and woofer can be hooked up seperatly or using the external crossover supplied. Small neo Mag.
Various 3 - 4 Inch Midrange from DLS, CDT, focals etc.


If you really need it to be loud... uhh hummmm

Fital Pro - 4FE30 or 5FE100.
Personnally I like the 4FE30 frequency response.

The point is here, there are smaller soloutions to kick panel installs.

[SR]

dls high end coaxial

Ultimate´series UX 26 is a high class 6,5" /165 mm coaxial speaker using the latest DLS technology.
- The midbass driver has a 2" VC with flat aluminium wire for maximum tightness.
- Aluminium cone with rubber surround.
- Neodymium magnet system.
- The 28 mm tweeter uses our latest technique allowing it to play up to 25 kHz.
- The tweeter level is adjustable in four steps.
- Separate filter box with high class components like ribbon air coils and polypropylene capacitors
- Grilles are included.

Specifications
Woofer size 16,5 cm (6,5")
Tweeter 28 mm dome tweeter
Power handling capacity 100 W RMS / 160 Watt max
Impedance 4 ohm
Frequency range 45 Hz - 25 kHz
Sensitivity 91 dB /W/m
Crossover 6dB lowpass, 12 dB highpass slope
Size of filter box 145 x 95 x 45 mm ( 5,71 x 3,74 x 1,77")
Outer diameter of woofer 165 mm / 6,5"
Magnet size 58 mm / 2,28" neodymium
Mounting depth 66 mm / 2,6"
Mounting hole 140 mm / 5,5"
Weight 3 kg / 6,76 lbs

http://dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_446

[nigel1977]

Who says you cant fit a large midrange in a rhd kick panel...

[SR]

yuh post the left side

post pics of the drivers side nah

[silent_riot]

6" eh large, dan.

[evolution7tt]

Come nah Jon, the man say BIG.

L6SE

Overall Diameter: 181 mm (7.1-inch)
Mounting Depth: 78 mm
Bolt Circle Diameter: 167.5 mm

[GVTrini07]

[quote="nervewrecker"]
dedicated mid & midbass drivers.

lower half of upholstery detached & removed, fiberglass enclosure made, mid in stock speaker location in door & midbass close to it (should be a few inches in front the center of the door).

I'm going to go with 2 way for now but I am already looking at what I am going to do for 3 way. I kind of dont trust myself interfering with the stuff behind the kicks

quote]

Slacker Is it you want to do a kick panel and just not comfortable about what it will take technically or experience wise?

Is it you wanna try mounting both drivers on door and not too concern with a kick panel install?

This all boils down to a what do you want to achieve as your final goal? Is your main concern is proper imaging/staging - more of a competition SQ oriented install (not saying you going for competition)?

Is it you want to have an upfront stage but still be able to open up the car door by the beach, not as much emphasis placed on the above?

[nervewrecker]

I honestly dont think I have the expertise to do a kick panel install (yet) as I dont have the experience with all of the imaging & staging & there are some wires under the right kick I prefer not interfere with.
I havent even gotten my DSP processor yet (or even made up my mind on one, whatever pops up next year that fits my requirements I might take).

I liked the idea of mounting the both speakers on the door because it will look nice & I can fit a 6" mid in there comfortable. I'm kind of shying away from a 6" (or larger diameter) in the kick because of how I see them usually aimed (for good results) may obstruct my foot at the pedals.

I know the mid in the kick usually gives good results with imaging & staging but im wondering if there is a way around it.

I will be experimenting with a 2 way system for next year & yes I am looking to get into the competition. I want a great sounding front stage like what I have been hearing in some of the competition vehicles (I love it!).

3 way may seem to give me the flexibility of maintaining a competition worthy system, great daily system & with some adjustments to the presets / tuning it can be loud enough to give some of the smaller gallery systems a good run.
The popular misconception that Sq systems arent loud went out of my head when I heard the 'Sq bangout' line up. With something like that I can have the best of all worlds.

[GVTrini07]

I honestly dont think I have the expertise to do a kick panel install (yet) as I dont have the experience with all of the imaging & staging & there are some wires under the right kick I prefer not interfere with.

I have wires running under my kicks and the fibreglass molding just rest over them. Don't have holes behind my setup for the drivers to vent into the vehicle framework and not interested in cutting. Basically vented under the dash. Depending on the type of driver you put in you may not need much venting.

If you don't have space or wires there are soloutions.
If you willing to move and or cut there are soloutions.

Post some photos of your concerns. I am sure someone on here has a workable soloution.

Before you commit to doing these stuff for competition, have a read of the rules with regards to class. There are restrictions to competiting in Rookie and Amature with regards to mounting locations of speakers etc.

[nervewrecker]

the glassed kicks adhered to the metal with an adhesive or you drilled holes btw?

im sticking with basic midwoofer in door & tweet on the dash somwhere for the time (2 way).

All im really concerned about is getting the front stage to sound good, overall score dont really matter because I have too much bass

[GVTrini07]

the glassed kicks adhered to the metal with an adhesive or you drilled holes btw?

I'm afraid to answer this one... the floor mat, door rubber and a piece of tar from the dynamat


Oh make that 2 pieces of tar from the dynamat... now we have double secured points.

[nervewrecker]

i'll keep that in mind

[SR]

this thread needs a bump

[TK!]

Best stage width:
Option 2
mid bass in the door
tweeter and mid in the kick
Cons: rainbow stage.

Higher stage:
Option1
mid bass in the door
tweeter in the A pillar
mid in the kick
Cons: less depth

Not listed, nor tried:
Main tweet (metal dome) and mid in kick
Midbass in door
Secondary tweet (soft dome) in a-pillar and attenuated.

Ref: Steven Head, 2007. URL: http://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutorial/2 ... ehind_Them

[Sully]

Not listed, nor tried:
Main tweet (metal dome) and mid in kick
Midbass in door
Secondary tweet (soft dome) in a-pillar and attenuated.

I've listened to a setup that was similar to this, except that it was silk dome in both the kicks and a pillars. To me it was one of the best overall sounding vehicles at SBN last year. All Hertz speakers.

[silent_riot]

Dinelle had that setup (passive sets in kicks and doors/dash) in his Pug 306.

And BTW tweets in kicks do not give a rainbow stage. Failure in tuning gives a rainbow stage.

The only disadvantage of tweets in kicks, is that in most cars, occupants' legs block the higher frequency sounds. If I could amputate the legs of my passengers, I would be running tweeters in kicks.

[silent_riot]

Ref: Steve Palik, 2007. URL: http://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutorial/2 ... ehind_Them

Steven Head.

[SR]

during judging process some competitors ask the judge to tuck in thier leg that blocks the tweets

[TK!]

Ref: Steve Palik, 2007. URL: http://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutorial/2 ... ehind_Them

Steven Head.

ooo, sorry.. it didnt have a name, tho i remembered it was steve or something close.

[evolution7tt]

And BTW tweets in kicks do not give a rainbow stage. Failure in tuning gives a rainbow stage.

Correct on this one. I heard it myself in my own car and in Silent Riot's.

[nervewrecker]

Best stage width:
Option 2
mid bass in the door
tweeter and mid in the kick
Cons: rainbow stage.

Higher stage:
Option1
mid bass in the door
tweeter in the A pillar
mid in the kick
Cons: less depth

Not listed, nor tried:
Main tweet (metal dome) and mid in kick
Midbass in door
Secondary tweet (soft dome) in a-pillar and attenuated.

Ref: Steven Head, 2007. URL: http://www.teamaudionutz.com/tutorial/2 ... ehind_Them

Looking at the frequency response on these:

http://www.faitalpro.com/products/sched ... =401000100

100Hz - 20kHz

http://www.faitalpro.com/products/sched ... =401005100

90Hz - 20kHz

can they make for a mid & tweet?

[kurpal_v2]

For me personally, with the 3'' free-air I felt the need to have a tweet, just for the finer sparkle.


It was crips but not crisp.

[nervewrecker]

I was looking at the freq response, they get a little rough before the 20kHz mark & one has a slight bump, maybe some eq-ing & you could get away with using them & the tweets in the A-pillars.
I compared them to the HAT 3" midbasses btw, they are the ones I demoed & they sounded rather great.

or what about a coaxial in the kicks?

[kurpal_v2]

You gotta go out and catch that fish yourself man.

[Soundstream_626]

You would still need a tweet. After 10 k or so because its off axis you do hear a noticeable drop off.

[silent_riot]

For me personally, with the 3'' free-air I felt the need to have a tweet, just for the finer sparkle.


It was crips but not crisp.

Correction: It was crisp, but not crips.

[nigel1977]

What HAT 3" Midbass?

[nervewrecker]

The HAT ones in evolution7tt kicks & the set that were in silent riots kicks a long while ago, they sound pretty good if you ask me.

I only compared freq response btw, havent demoed the pro audio mids in a car yet to even begin to make a comparison against the HAT.