***The Official Rapid Rail Thread***

[Daran]

That's true. I saw that 500m 'study/plan' in 2009 and from a utility perspective TTEC, WASA and TSTT had to move/relocate several pylons, substations, pipelines and cell towers. At that meeting persons from each said it won't be moving but buying all new unnecessary infrastructure. Then transferring services to the new equipment when ready then dismantle the old ones. Easily over 1B they all said.

[Habit7]

Who de muddac**t talking about killing Port-of-Spain???

We talking about decentralization, you saying we need rapid rail cause country big... but yuh have no flickin problem with somebody coming from Cedros and driving for 3-4 hrs to get to POS... But build a university in Debe and everyone north of the Caroni Bridge loses their sheit.

The country CLEARLY has enough money to decentralize if we even considering this Rapid Rail.

You guys talking about the fuel subsidy and how rapid rail will reduce it - then with the savings we can finance this mega project. How much fuel subsidy would decentralization save? what you think causes the majority of gas guzzling? Its beating the highway EVERY day.

Lets go back to the 1000 or so cars the water taxi takes off the roads every day

Lets assume they use super - these people would have used about $200 super every week to get to POS. According to the Min of Finance $100 of that was subsidy

It works out to 5 Million a year reduction in fuel subsidy - now I know that seems small and the yearly cost 41 Million, but I wonder if they consider this reduction in the fuel subsidy when they discuss the effectiveness of this service... what are the benefits of scaling up this service etc?

I hope the water taxi is not a casualty in the justification of this Rail project... it was almost stopped by the PP but then Jack realized they could just cancel the Taxi service planned to run from San'do to Point.... mighty hard to justify a 7 Billion dollar highway with the inconvenience of an effect far cheaper alternative in operation

Who said anything about Debe campus? What do you mean by decentralisation because many govt services are available outside of POS. If you mean de-urbanising POS then that is killing POS and reducing the efficiency of the nation's capital. How many ppl daily go from Cedros to POS daily?

You do know that there are actual people living/working in Caroni right? You do know that 500+ (as you say)people visit Central every day right? You do know that not having to travel to POS for all these services not only saves time, is more efficient, and saves gas and people's nerves right? You do know that only the most elitist people think this way right?

Do you know that it would need additional ppl from outside Caroni right? Do you know it would require additional ppl to come there that the current public transport system cannot support right? Do you know that many of the services of the MVA are available at St. James, Arima, Chaguanas, Princes Town, Sando and Point Fortin? Removing it from POS would remove the efficiency of POS as being a location do that many others in relative proximity.

[Habit7]

I know someone that worked for the company that did the geotechnical survey for the proposed rail. There is over $500M spent on this project already.

The proposed path involved the buyout of every single property South of the highway between grand bazzar and UWI.

The Govt would have to buy out grand bazzar itself, Valpark shopping plaza, Helen Bhagwansingh house, Kay Donna, Condos opposite Kay Donna etc etc etc

Most of the properties owned by certain party financiers..... cha ching $$$$$$$

Payback time....

This is how politics works. Every Govt needs a mega project to siphon from for the UNC it was the Point highway for this Govt it probably is this rail.

Politicians never do anything for the people... they do to gain political mileage, improve their image, treat their friends etc.

Whoever believe otherwise...

Are you aware that Grand Bazaar is like 50m south of the highway? Govt already bought out most of the land north of GB and the hway. KayDonna and the condos area already earmarked to be bought out for the Curepe interchange. When I was a child (early 90's) from Valsayn to Arima was a sing lane east, single lane west, ppl got bought out and today it is widened. The elevated overpass at GB has a footprint of about 5m you think we can't find that 5m on the southern side of the Hway to put and elevated track?

[Daran]

Habit7,

Come on, your argument is good, but due to setback distances and construction works it will be a lot more than 5m.

[EmilioA]

Well High Court/Appeal Court for one thing. Half the country has to show up in POS for that.

Also almost everybody's Personnel /Human Resources Dept, Accounts Dept, Communications Dept, Legal Dept and Corporate HQ is located in POS. Therefore if you have any business with those depts of any organization odds are you have to head to POS.

Courts aren't a service, which country in the world doesn't have its highest courts at their capital? The context we talking about was govt services. Your job departments aren't services.
.

Query. Does the fact that you dont define it as service mean that people dont have to drive to POS to see about thier business ?

Are you aware that Grand Bazaar is like 50m south of the highway? Govt already bought out most of the land north of GB and the hway. KayDonna and the condos area already earmarked to be bought out for the Curepe interchange. When I was a child (early 90's) from Valsayn to Arima was a sing lane east, single lane west, ppl got bought out and today it is widened. The elevated overpass at GB has a footprint of about 5m you think we can't find that 5m on the southern side of the Hway to put and elevated track?

You Might have some issues with construction equipment requiring more than 5 m of space.

[Cantmis]

Is either " RAPID PREVAIL"
or
"RAPID FAIL"

[desifemlove]

Yes those are the govt offices but what services are exclusively found in POS and not found in satellite offices thus requiring ppl to come to POS?

Can you pick up a marriage license in Chaguanas? Can you submit docs to Town and Country in Couva? Are you serious?

I got my marriage certificate in Tunapuna. There isn't a T&C in Couva but there are in these areas https://www.ttconnect.gov.tt/gortt/port ... al+Offices

Well High Court/Appeal Court for one thing. Half the country has to show up in POS for that.

Also almost everybody's Personnel /Human Resources Dept, Accounts Dept, Communications Dept, Legal Dept and Corporate HQ is located in POS. Therefore if you have any business with those depts of any organization odds are you have to head to POS.

Courts aren't a service, which country in the world doesn't have its highest courts at their capital? The context we talking about was govt services. Your job departments aren't services.



Killing POS doesn't solve your traffic problem, it kills the biggest urban area in the country and a major driver of our economy. The close location of services provides for efficiency no other set up offers. That's why not only govt HQs in POS but private sector too. Within walking distance you can complete several tasks. Whoever if you spread out govt service HQs it requires more dependence on personal transport, more time in transit and less effiiciency. When MVA in Fredrick Settlement opens, the new 500+ workers and the 500+ visitors, do they have adequate public transport to cater for this influx? Can workers find daycare nearby, food options, dry cleaning, supermarkets, mechanics, doctors, etc? Or would that have to get on the road and further add to the congestion? Developed countries don't solve their traffic problems be killing their urban areas, they impel mass transit systems.

POS killed? when it has those small employers/activity like Henry and Frederick Streets, Movietowne, the Avenue, Long Circular Mall, the Savannah, the Waterfront, Woodbrook One, and all them small places of economic activity? Developed countries encourage regenetration, PNM take note, a mall in upper downtown of Gulf City standard plus high-end housing is all needed.

[sMASH]

People will just able to sleep more while still having to reach to work for 8.

Why don't the move out some businesses that don't neeeeeeeed to be in town? Develop some other region, like wallerfield or sangre grande, and have both east and west of the corridor splitting the traffic.( I think its an economical, environmental, infrastructural inefficiency to have so many people travel so far just for a job). Stagger the opening business hours people need to reach to work by.

* Nah man, I Wah spend billions on a train service to wuk in tong. Still Hadda wake up early, still Hadda spend hours commuting to and from, still Hadda take a maxi if I miss the train, children still Hadda pay the loan for the rail, hthe monies could have gone towards a proper hospital or sports complex.
I Wah ride a train to wuk*

[sMASH]

Yes it is something I try to avoid. How much ever business PoS handles, split it in three. Put one of those closer to the airport where more foreign based companies csn set up, and have some level of official sub officies where they can do their legal work.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Say the train costing $30 Billion.

Think of the $100 Billion we waste in the last 5 years on sheit that was completely necessary. Why do we suddenly think that $30 billion is a big issue? when we didn't have any issues last 5 years never mind the fact that the box drains has not solved the traffic issue?

[zoom rader]

A good PNM plan as usual

Roll tolls, increasing car taxes, increasing Gas prices all in favour for paying for racket rail.

Men vote for dat

Don't forget when trains breaks down what's going to happen?
Then you all going to have PNM Unions to deal with, these train workers will be another PSC

[EmilioA]

A good PNM plan as usual

Roll tolls, increasing car taxes, increasing Gas prices all in favour for paying for racket rail.

Men vote for dat

Don't forget when trains breaks down what's going to happen?
Then you all going to have PNM Unions to deal with, these train workers will be another PSC

Vote Kamla for more traffic jams and box drains!

[zoom rader]

A good PNM plan as usual

Roll tolls, increasing car taxes, increasing Gas prices all in favour for paying for racket rail.

Men vote for dat

Don't forget when trains breaks down what's going to happen?
Then you all going to have PNM Unions to deal with, these train workers will be another PSC

Vote Kamla for more traffic jams and box drains!

Box drains is free, Racket Rail your kids and grandchildren will have to pay for dat.

Be glad what u voted for

[10-01]

next big question , could the trinidad and tobago fire service handle a massive train accident ? this is not like a car accident rite , 1000 + people may die have they thought of this ?

[Daran]

Especially with the train passing near beethem.

[bluesclues]

Especially with the train passing near beethem.

oh lawd. now dey doh have to block d highway lol

[VII]

Ok well based on the above concerns and logic we should also assume and conclude the local rescue services can't handle something like this in the middle of P.O.S,or a plane crashing into Hyatt/waterfront or a packed Piarco or Crown Point terminal or something. So no to planes.


How about something like this on one of many Ferries including water taxis? No to Fast Ferries and water Taxi..


Or something like this in Pt.Lisas or Point-Fortin ? Well naturally no to gas or chem plants,especially so close to towns and housing areas.


Keep walking.

[VII]

Point of note,other than death tolls from old overloaded trains on old wild west tracks being swept away by rivers in cyclone conditions and falling into canyons ages and ages ago,101 people have died in the deadliest modern mass transit system train crash in history. Modern trains are rigorously tested and developed with passenger safety and casualty limitation/mitigation in mind.

In even the most epic of modern derailments/crashes only a couple carriages bear the brunt of the deadly forces with few casualties.

[EmilioA]

Box drains is free, Racket Rail your kids and grandchildren will have to pay for dat.

Be glad what u voted for

Box drains is free ?

Is a wonder you haven gotten an aneurysm with all your double think.

[Numb3r4]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Nqb3SdBAc[/youtube]

Published on Oct 10, 2015

This summer, Houston officials dramatically restructured the route of municipal busses to streamline service reflecting where people live and work -- all for almost no additional cost. Now, the system may be a possible model for how other cities redesign their public transportation. Special Correspondent Karla Murthy reports.

Note the cost....why are we not considering this.....
Have we? If so was it made public?

[The_Honourable]

Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) - solves ALL the problems that RAPID RAIL seeks to solve at a fraction of the price

But... you see that is the problem with it, it is cheap, how will ministers and party financiers "eat-ah-food" with something so cheap?



The bus route is already there, with a comparatively small upgrade this can work (think we will need a loop in POS for quick dropoff and turning with travelators to speed people out of the hub) Secure parking near the bus route must put in place etc.

The bust route MUST be used for buses only... a couple buses every 5 minutes - I think people may buy in

As you mention BRT, here is great article written about it.

"Building a bus rapid transit system is way cheaper than building rapid rail. Which leaves one question: Wha de a – – is bus rapid transit?

Most people’s reaction when they hear about buses: Ugh. We already have those, and they’re pretty meh. Sure, T&T’s fleet of buses from the Public Transport Service Corporation carries lots of people, but that just means that you have to squash up next to strangers while you sit in the same slow, annoying traffic you would have had to sit in otherwise.

But it turns out that bus rapid transit is very, very different from the buses we encounter on the roadways. Pro-BRT advocates argue that bus rapid transit systems are much more like light-rail trains than regular bus networks; in fact, they sometimes use the nickname “rubber rails” to refer to BRT. What makes bus rapid transit so special?

Read More: http://baddrivetrinidad.com/category/rapid-rail/

[DVSTT]

It would run mostly over state lands and alongside the CRH on an elevated track. Most of the residential land acquisitions would be in Chaguanas and Central. But most of the proposed route would be south of the CRH and East of the UBH/SHH where property values are lower.

Now its that building on elevated track over the CRH that concerning me.

1. Is there actual space for that and

2. what happens to traffic on the CRH while this is going on.

I did not say overhead, I said alongside.

Alongside , Overhead. Same questions apply. Is there space for that and will ongoing traffic be disrupted. From Grand Bazaar to Pasea kinda tight.

So what do you suggest stay in traffic until it reaches total gridlock levels

I take it you missed my post querying alternatives to a linear rail system.

I am asking a question of logistics. I support a rapid rail system But from Grand Bazaar to Pasea, where is this rapid rail supposed to physically pass ?

I know someone that worked for the company that did the geotechnical survey for the proposed rail. There is over $500M spent on this project already.

The proposed path involved the buyout of every single property South of the highway between grand bazzar and UWI.

The Govt would have to buy out grand bazzar itself, Valpark shopping plaza, Helen Bhagwansingh house, Kay Donna, Condos opposite Kay Donna etc etc etc

Most of the properties owned by certain party financiers..... cha ching $$$$$$$

Payback time....

This is how politics works. Every Govt needs a mega project to siphon from for the UNC it was the Point highway for this Govt it probably is this rail.

Politicians never do anything for the people... they do to gain political mileage, improve their image, treat their friends etc.

Whoever believe otherwise...

If you could pocket 2% of the project cost you set for life.

[drchaos]

This is a big concern that no one has noticed ...
WHY the hell is the Chaguanas south station no where near Chaguanas ....
According to the plans the station is way out in Cunupia. It takes more than 15 minutes without traffic to get there from the eastern side of the highway. Imagine during rush hour especially those who in Chaguanas proper (west of the highway).

This makes no sense ...
Why stop there why not build the port of spain station in Barataria ....

[Redman]

Instead of finding the magic bullet we need to to identify the source of the volumes....

South to POS comute could be handled by the Water Taxi being expanded....I will suggest adding Point La Brea-POS runs.....That should be easy to set up using hover craft....

http://www.scat.com.sg/transport_sf_3000.htm

http://www.griffonhovercraftusa.com/bro ... ercial.pdf

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTWRzwIntds

The largest griffon could take 80 passengers at 40-45 knots and take 6 foot waves(not common in the Gulf) from Point to La Brea to POS (about 30 Nautical Miles) in less than an hr...Scale a 4 foot hard object...using 250 Litres of Diesel per hr.

VERY little infrastructure.......the HC need no docking area.....so we can use a parking lot

So....In Point we could expand the Guapo facilities parking lot .....just add a terminal for the ticketing....

In POS we could do it by Movie Towne....smaller because there isnt that volume heading south..

We could add a stop in Felicity or get smaller HC to run express

The larger Cos could assess who they have coming from where and buy seats...effectively chartering runs at specific times...

If its doesnt work we could retask and or sell with out much loss...

Run a BRT on the frigging PRIORITY BUS ROUTE for the East West traffic.....

And MARKET IT.....If people use public transport 20% of the time...1 day a week the road conditions will improve for all....and we could get there in 6 months...for small money.

[De Dragon]

Say the train costing $30 Billion.

Think of the $100 Billion we waste in the last 5 years on sheit that was completely necessary. Why do we suddenly think that $30 billion is a big issue? when we didn't have any issues last 5 years never mind the fact that the box drains has not solved the traffic issue?

Yes, continue the cacahole train running by throwing billions away

[De Dragon]

Who de muddac**t talking about killing Port-of-Spain???

We talking about decentralization, you saying we need rapid rail cause country big... but yuh have no flickin problem with somebody coming from Cedros and driving for 3-4 hrs to get to POS... But build a university in Debe and everyone north of the Caroni Bridge loses their sheit.

The country CLEARLY has enough money to decentralize if we even considering this Rapid Rail.

You guys talking about the fuel subsidy and how rapid rail will reduce it - then with the savings we can finance this mega project. How much fuel subsidy would decentralization save? what you think causes the majority of gas guzzling? Its beating the highway EVERY day.

Lets go back to the 1000 or so cars the water taxi takes off the roads every day

Lets assume they use super - these people would have used about $200 super every week to get to POS. According to the Min of Finance $100 of that was subsidy

It works out to 5 Million a year reduction in fuel subsidy - now I know that seems small and the yearly cost 41 Million, but I wonder if they consider this reduction in the fuel subsidy when they discuss the effectiveness of this service... what are the benefits of scaling up this service etc?

I hope the water taxi is not a casualty in the justification of this Rail project... it was almost stopped by the PP but then Jack realized they could just cancel the Taxi service planned to run from San'do to Point.... mighty hard to justify a 7 Billion dollar highway with the inconvenience of an effect far cheaper alternative in operation

Who said anything about Debe campus? What do you mean by decentralisation because many govt services are available outside of POS. If you mean de-urbanising POS then that is killing POS and reducing the efficiency of the nation's capital. How many ppl daily go from Cedros to POS daily?

You do know that there are actual people living/working in Caroni right? You do know that 500+ (as you say)people visit Central every day right? You do know that not having to travel to POS for all these services not only saves time, is more efficient, and saves gas and people's nerves right? You do know that only the most elitist people think this way right?

Do you know that it would need additional ppl from outside Caroni right? Do you know it would require additional ppl to come there that the current public transport system cannot support right? Do you know that many of the services of the MVA are available at St. James, Arima, Chaguanas, Princes Town, Sando and Point Fortin? Removing it from POS would remove the efficiency of POS as being a location do that many others in relative proximity.

Apparently Caroni and environs have 10 people that reside there, and all of them dotish! Again with your uninformed and elitist view that there in insufficient knowledge/skill/qualified personnel if they don't emanate from north of the lighthouse. Transport system cannot support it? Seriously? I guess the complaint of "bhai REAL traffic to go Caroni" is one you've heard often?

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

next big question , could the trinidad and tobago fire service handle a massive train accident ? this is not like a car accident rite , 1000 + people may die have they thought of this ?

It has been proven time and time again that God is a Trini.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Say the train costing $30 Billion.

Think of the $100 Billion we waste in the last 5 years on sheit that was completely necessary. Why do we suddenly think that $30 billion is a big issue? when we didn't have any issues last 5 years never mind the fact that the box drains has not solved the traffic issue?

Yes, continue the cacahole train running by throwing billions away

Yes but seeing that we are the 3rd richest country in the western hemisphere after Canada and USA why not build the train while we have the oil and gas?

Just think about years in the future when we broke, have no oil and gas left and we really need a rail what then? I think people are missing the bigger picture of the RR, its for our children. One day that rail will cover a huge percent of the country. I take it those who are against the RR clearly does not travel in and out of POS? or I take it those with cars and against the RR just love traffic? the RR will give people an option, we should think big.

I doh want to near no nonsense about rapid bus, I believe in the way intel does business "go big or go home"

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

Is either " RAPID PREVAIL"
or
"RAPID FAIL"

Only one way to find out.

[desifemlove]

1374703487000-AP-APTOPIX-Spain-Train-Derailment-001-1307241814_4_3.jpg

next big question , could the trinidad and tobago fire service handle a massive train accident ? this is not like a car accident rite , 1000 + people may die have they thought of this ?

<unclogic>cos no form of transport is perfect, we cannot have a rail system. We should not build roads cos we always have potential for a mass car pile up...which ambulance/fire cyah cope...</unclogic>

<uncrationale>cos this ent no opportunity to change and develop culture...cos the countries in foreign we does envy didn't start from a base and had to develop such cultures...</uncrationale>