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The Religion Discussion

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MD Marketers
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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 12th, 2015, 6:48 am

Did you know there is a loophole in our law enforcement system that once used it is impossible for a Police Officer to issue a valid ticket for a traffic offense?

Its been Tried & Tested from a theoretical & practical point of view.

It's not that they wont give you a valid ticket. It's that they can't.
I'm gonna let you guess the answer for now. Will tell you when your getting close or if you found another loophole

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 12th, 2015, 8:07 am

Motivational Question to you!

Question:
Which came first? The First Question or The First Answer?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the "Question" came first for obvious reasons.
If we already knew the answer then there would be no need to ask the question.
Therefore our motivation for doing anything in life isn't an "Answer"

Therefore it is safe to say we don't really "need" answers to survive.
We "need" questions to survive.

This is the main reason why philosophers claim that if we had the "answers" to everything then we would cease to exist (find motivation to keep ourselves alive)

If heaven holds all the answers it's meaningless to us.

Science:
True science is about "the need" to "find answers" by "asking Scientific questions"

Religion:
True Religion is about "the need" to "find answers" by "asking God questions"

Sig Material:
It's the journey that counts & not the destination
If you never asked a question then you can never find an answer
If you already found the answer then you already asked the question
If you already have the answer but never asked the question then it wasn't your question to begin with.

Don't forget to vote.

Regards

Shane
Last edited by MD Marketers on June 12th, 2015, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Slartibartfast » June 12th, 2015, 8:13 am

Only got one ticket in my life so I don't remember the whole procedure.

Do I have to sign the ticket they give to me to show that I accept the accusation? If so can I sign a random signature?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 12th, 2015, 8:32 am

Slartibartfast wrote:Only got one ticket in my life so I don't remember the whole procedure.

Do I have to sign the ticket they give to me to show that I accept the accusation? If so can I sign a random signature?


Well no, they can still issue the ticket absent your signature & you will still have to go to court to fight your case.
In some cases they actually carry you back to the station for being blatantly difficult, although this is not a criminal offense lol

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 12th, 2015, 9:24 pm

Note: I use English language as my only language so try to use the same dictionary I do (if you don't mind) when explaining things to me. Call it a handicap if you want, I don't mind.

I have a few questions for religious folks:

Theists in General:
Assuming that God is mysterious & works in mysterious ways is true. Why would it be ok for him to communicate in mysterious ways too? Is there a passage from your religious scriptures that states that God "communicates" in mysterious ways? How did you come to understand that he communicates in mysterious ways (assuming this is what you believe?)

Communicate: to impart or transmit (information or knowledge) to someone

Of course I am assuming here he is communicating for the purpose of being understood. If not then...
Why would God possibly communicate something to us that he doesn't want us to understand?
If he did & we understood it would that mean we defied God?
If he did it so only a few could get the meaning, then why is it our fault if we get classed with the other section?
If he does communicate properly and we just don't understand it because of our own ignorance then why would you consider this as "God communicating mysteriously?", because he obviously didn't do that.

The fact is, if you believe in a God that is communicating with you, then the premise:
"God works in mysterious ways"
Does not follow the conclusion that
"God communicates in mysterious ways"

In other words
When I ask a question like "What does God mean by this?"
You cannot respond
"I don't know because God works in mysterious ways"

His mysterious ways has nothing to do with the way he communicates.
I'm not even going to bother to say "he is God, & therefore could find a better way to communicate in the first place"

It's just a completely invalid argument. It is being intellectually dishonest every time you say this.

So please stop for the sake of honesty at least

Please note: Mysterious doesn't mean unusual, it means unexplainable & incomprehensible.

Now, I'm going to tackle the issue of "God Works in mysterious ways"
Firstly, if you are going to make such a statement about God clearly it must have backing in your religious book. So tell me where did you read this in your religious book.
Secondly, assuming that you did actually find the words "God works in mysterious ways", what would you take that to mean? God's works shall always be "unexplainable & incomprehensible" in the past, present & future even by him? Or is it just at that point in time?
If it's always "unexplainable & incomprehensible" then how were you ever able to understand it to begin with. Did you defy God's law?
If it's temporarily "unexplainable & incomprehensible" then why use it as an argument to explain "how you could understand it but I can't". Obviously if you understood it the temporarily "unexplainable & incomprehensible" moment has passed. Are you suggesting that you once understood it but can't anymore? If you suddenly developed mental retardation then you cannot make the claim that your brain is still functioning the way it should be.


Christians in particular:
Assuming that I really did need a merciful God to sacrifice something for me to be saved from the hell that he made.
How exactly did the biblical story of Jesus get classified as a sacrifice in the first place?

Is it John 3:16?
Or is it Implied through a myriad of verses throught the Bible?
Or was it a spirit that told you this in a vision?
Last edited by MD Marketers on June 13th, 2015, 6:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby josh » June 12th, 2015, 10:43 pm

Ok
Genesis 1:26 God said, Let Us make man
The Father was talking with His Son
In John 17:3-5 Jesus talks to the Father n tells Him glorify me with the power which I had With you before the world was
Hebrews 1:1-14 states the Father talking to the son. Verse 10 states Father tellin Jesus that He laid the foundation of the earth. They are the works of His hands.
Now why God sacrificed His son partially
Abraham was found righteous n more obedient than many back then under Noah bloodline
He had a child with lady named Sarah who was barren until 100yrs old
Angel said she wud make a son Isaac
Genesis 22 God tempts Abraham to sacrifice Isaac...a burnt offering n Abraham waa gna do it in Jerusalem where Jesus was sacrificed carrying wood to burn just like Jesus carried His own tree wood that they hung Him on
Hebrews 9:22 says no forgiveness of sins without bloodshed
Custom was to use animal sacrifice to pay for sin
Cuz sin for instance when we kill steal masturbate etc
Its not us do it first n neither its from our ancestors
Satan is the Father of all rape lies slander gossip murder revenge hatred unforgiving adultery fornication withcraft nicromancy obhea white n black magic drinking of blood etc etc
God created the environment satan and them were in the Third Heaven before where the Father n Son n all angels resided. God is Holy incapable of lying
Satan with His own will created all of the sin categories
The Lord n Christ in many of the old testament was prophesied by many prophets to come
Daniel isaiah Jeremiah ezekiel king david etc
New testament He came
Prophesy was fulfilled
He was baptized by John the baptist last prophet jus before Christ came
They say what good cud come out of Nazareth. .was a poor town
Scripture says he wud come under King David's blood lineage who was King of the whole of Israel
If the Christ came y wud he come from a small town in the land? Wat ppl thought
When He died. His body remained 3 days
Revelation 1:18 he went into the heart of the earth where hell is biblically
Took the keys of hell and death
Then went into paradise and took the captives captive
That is inside the earth as well but on a gulf fix meaning a big gap from hell
They cud not hav gone Heaven without d Holy Spirit to quicken u.
Aftr Jesus was baptized they saw the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost descend on Him like a dove. After that He did all miracles..turn water into wine heal the sick like crazy raise the dead feed 5000 ppl wit 5 bread 2 fish got back 12 baskets of crumbs did it again with 4000 ppl cast out demons like crazy
This is the what all guys died in the new testament for
Preaching repent of your sin confess out of your heart n tongue that He totally is Son of God n believe truly n submerge in the water n be born of the water and Spirit
This is the command to receive the same Spirit of the Father Jesus received
If u die without it
Ur soul n body jus goes to hell until judgement day
Where satan is now gna b judged
1 corinthians 15 states u need the Spirit for the Father to quicken you to Heaven when you die
Acts chapter 8 verse 37 is missing in evry million of copies sold bibles like
NIV NASB ESV ASV Jerusalem new Jerusalem etc New world translation
They are all corrupted bibles because a Holy book is a compilation if all verses n chapters from beginning to end
For a verse to be purposely missing n millions of copies sold
Sumtin fishy going on out there ??
Only the king james has the verse
Check it out
Sin came into the world by one tree one person started it
Tree of Knowledge
Of Good and of Evil
Satan tell d woman you surely shalt not die
We r dying but when God breathe the breath of life into man ur soul is eternal
We get saved from the judgement for sin tru one person Holy
Blood sacrificed
Paying for All our sins even the future ones we aint do
He just wants a man come to Him n ask for forgiveness n He forgives ur sin if u dear in ur heart n wna change
His blood paid
No more animal sacrifice
We got redeemed tru that tree they hang Him on
The cross
Think about it
When we do sin..we.partake with satanic spirits cuz it not of us or God
Its of the devil n them
If they gna b judged for sin
Why are we not too
The governors worldwide musicians actors will the judge etc we all will Be judged on account of our life
no matter how sleazy the system is now
People will never believe
The fire is very hott

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 12th, 2015, 11:09 pm

josh wrote:Ok
Genesis 1:26 God said, Let Us make man
The Father was talking with His Son
In John 17:3-5 Jesus talks to the Father n tells Him glorify me with the power which I had With you before the world was
Hebrews 1:1-14 states the Father talking to the son. Verse 10 states Father tellin Jesus that He laid the foundation of the earth. They are the works of His hands.
Now why God sacrificed His son partially
Abraham was found righteous n more obedient than many back then under Noah bloodline
He had a child with lady named Sarah who was barren until 100yrs old
Angel said she wud make a son Isaac
Genesis 22 God tempts Abraham to sacrifice Isaac...a burnt offering n Abraham waa gna do it in Jerusalem where Jesus was sacrificed carrying wood to burn just like Jesus carried His own tree wood that they hung Him on
Hebrews 9:22 says no forgiveness of sins without bloodshed
Custom was to use animal sacrifice to pay for sin
Cuz sin for instance when we kill steal masturbate etc
Its not us do it first n neither its from our ancestors
Satan is the Father of all rape lies slander gossip murder revenge hatred unforgiving adultery fornication withcraft nicromancy obhea white n black magic drinking of blood etc etc
God created the environment satan and them were in the Third Heaven before where the Father n Son n all angels resided. God is Holy incapable of lying
Satan with His own will created all of the sin categories
The Lord n Christ in many of the old testament was prophesied by many prophets to come
Daniel isaiah Jeremiah ezekiel king david etc
New testament He came
Prophesy was fulfilled
He was baptized by John the baptist last prophet jus before Christ came
They say what good cud come out of Nazareth. .was a poor town
Scripture says he wud come under King David's blood lineage who was King of the whole of Israel
If the Christ came y wud he come from a small town in the land? Wat ppl thought
When He died. His body remained 3 days
Revelation 1:18 he went into the heart of the earth where hell is biblically
Took the keys of hell and death
Then went into paradise and took the captives captive
That is inside the earth as well but on a gulf fix meaning a big gap from hell
They cud not hav gone Heaven without d Holy Spirit to quicken u.
Aftr Jesus was baptized they saw the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost descend on Him like a dove. After that He did all miracles..turn water into wine heal the sick like crazy raise the dead feed 5000 ppl wit 5 bread 2 fish got back 12 baskets of crumbs did it again with 4000 ppl cast out demons like crazy
This is the what all guys died in the new testament for
Preaching repent of your sin confess out of your heart n tongue that He totally is Son of God n believe truly n submerge in the water n be born of the water and Spirit
This is the command to receive the same Spirit of the Father Jesus received
If u die without it
Ur soul n body jus goes to hell until judgement day
Where satan is now gna b judged
1 corinthians 15 states u need the Spirit for the Father to quicken you to Heaven when you die
Acts chapter 8 verse 37 is missing in evry million of copies sold bibles like
NIV NASB ESV ASV Jerusalem new Jerusalem etc New world translation
They are all corrupted bibles because a Holy book is a compilation if all verses n chapters from beginning to end
For a verse to be purposely missing n millions of copies sold
Sumtin fishy going on out there ??
Only the king james has the verse
Check it out
Sin came into the world by one tree one person started it
Tree of Knowledge
Of Good and of Evil
Satan tell d woman you surely shalt not die
We r dying but when God breathe the breath of life into man ur soul is eternal
We get saved from the judgement for sin tru one person Holy
Blood sacrificed
Paying for All our sins even the future ones we aint do
He just wants a man come to Him n ask for forgiveness n He forgives ur sin if u dear in ur heart n wna change
His blood paid
No more animal sacrifice
We got redeemed tru that tree they hang Him on
The cross
Think about it
When we do sin..we.partake with satanic spirits cuz it not of us or God
Its of the devil n them
If they gna b judged for sin
Why are we not too
The governors worldwide musicians actors will the judge etc we all will Be judged on account of our life
no matter how sleazy the system is now
People will never believe
The fire is very hott


After 74 lines of writing you still haven't showed how was the final act of Jesus classified as a sacrificed. That's all I am asking my friend.
At this rate you are going to solve the mysteries of quantum mechanics before you answer my simple question & give me an aneurism in the process.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby josh » June 12th, 2015, 11:21 pm

Uhh He was heir to the Holy Father
His blood was Holy
You can't pay God for sin with money
He dont like it
Its not of Him
Hebrews 9:22 said bloodshed pays for sin
Jesus was crucified
Murdered innocently with a live murderer freed named barabas
N He was sinless
He knew the law n prophets word better than any
He laid down his life willingly
He obeyed the Father's will
To pay with His Holy blood
That tru His blood when we ask of Him our sins cud be forgiven n we dont hav to go to the judgement of hell for our sins
He came to get the depressed suicidal murderer rapist etc
He loves the sinner but not the sin
Matthew 26:53 Jesus was saying that the Scriptures needed to b filled n He said cud I not ask my Father for twelve legions of angels right now
But no
He came like a lamb to the slaughter
Humble

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 12th, 2015, 11:26 pm

josh wrote:Uhh He was heir to the Holy Father
His blood was Holy
You can't pay God for sin with money
He dont like it
Its not of Him
Hebrews 9:22 said bloodshed pays for sin
Jesus was crucified
Murdered innocently with a live murderer freed named barabas
N He was sinless
He knew the law n prophets word better than any
He laid down his life willingly
He obeyed the Father's will
To pay with His Holy blood
That tru His blood when we ask of Him our sins cud be forgiven n we dont hav to go to the judgement of hell for our sins
He came to get the depressed suicidal murderer rapist etc
He loves the sinner but not the sin
Matthew 26:53 Jesus was saying that the Scriptures needed to b filled n He said cud I not ask my Father for twelve legions of angels right now
But no
He came like a lamb to the slaughter
Humble

So which verse is it?
I'm looking for something that says Jesus was sacrificed.
Just one verse.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Chiz » June 13th, 2015, 12:17 am

Jesus christ is lord and savior. Without him we are nothing. We were once destined for hell but thank god he have up his only begotten son to redeem us with his precious blood.....

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 13th, 2015, 12:35 am

Chiz wrote:Jesus christ is lord and savior. Without him we are nothing. We were once destined for hell but thank god he have up his only begotten son to redeem us with his precious blood.....

You found this in the Bible?
Can you at least tell me the chapter and the verse?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby josh » June 13th, 2015, 5:56 am

Matthew 20:19 23:34 27:31 28:5
Acts 4:10-12 5:30-31
Romans 6:6-11
1 corinthians 1:13 1:23
2 corinthians 13:3-11
Galations 2:20 5:24 6:14
Hebrews 6:6
Revelation 11:8

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 13th, 2015, 9:39 am

josh wrote:
Matthew 20:19 23:34 27:31 28:5
Acts 4:10-12 5:30-31
Romans 6:6-11
1 corinthians 1:13 1:23
2 corinthians 13:3-11
Galations 2:20 5:24 6:14
Hebrews 6:6
Revelation 11:8


I assume you think these verses specifically implies a sacrifice from God?

Definition of Sacrifice:
The offering of food, objects or the lives of animals to a higher purpose, in particular divine beings, as an act of propitiation or worship.
or
An act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.

Here are the exact verses:
Matthew 20:19
and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"

Matthew 23:34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city

Matthew 27:31
And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.

Matthew 28:5
And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.

Acts 4:10-12
Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Acts 5:30-31
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Romans 6:6-11
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I'm assuming the above verses, in your interpretation, is a sacrifice. God didn't specifically say that it was a sacrifice right? So you must have interpreted the meaning to arrive at this conclusion. I'm fine with that, but can you at least explain how you came to this conclusion?

Here is why Jesus' death cannot be a sacrifice from God:
Based on the definition of what a Sacrifice is:
If this is God's sacrifice then, who is God's God? He cannot take something away from another being (or even himself) & give it to himself or it would not be a Sacrifice. Also Sacrifice is not the act of giving something, please read the definition.
Now let's just assume for a second that he was Jesus also & we could make the argument that he sacrificed himself for a higher purpose (humanity), then this would be considered a sacrifice. There are 2 things wrong with that.
1. God said he is the highest purpose. If not then he is not omnipotent & probably a liar.
2. Jesus (his other form) needs to be given up (lost forever). Each time you say Jesus is alive you condemn yourself to Hell.
If you believe the Bible then this cannot possibly equate a sacrifice.
According to your Bible God didn't even say he "Sacrificed" something here. It was you that did.
So tell me again why is the crucifixion of Jesus considered a Sacrifice?


What is the use of words if you cannot get them to make sense?
What is Christianity without a sacrifice from God?
And to you Mr. Yahweh: This is what happens when you work and communicate in mysterious ways. Your followers start communicating in mysterious ways too.
Last edited by MD Marketers on June 13th, 2015, 8:49 pm, edited 26 times in total.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Daran » June 13th, 2015, 10:42 am

Asperger's manifests itself in online communication many ways and the traits I observe in you is a slight niave and unnecessary obsession in a specific field. That's all there was to my claim.

My friend who has this type of high functioning autism has perhaps the best game of any person I know. The guy can charm and seduce any chicken, but is almost always naive and unaware that they want him. Which leads to lots of pissed of women when he doesn't reciprocate.

Also any topic that pikes his interest he becomes an expert overnight., knowing more about some topics than even uwi PhDs.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby Slartibartfast » June 13th, 2015, 11:08 am

Seduce chickens yuh say :|

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 13th, 2015, 11:11 am

Daran wrote:Asperger's manifests itself in online communication many ways and the traits I observe in you is a slight niave and unnecessary obsession in a specific field. That's all there was to my claim.

My friend who has this type of high functioning autism has perhaps the best game of any person I know. The guy can charm and seduce any chicken, but is almost always naive and unaware that they want him. Which leads to lots of pissed of women when he doesn't reciprocate.

Also any topic that pikes his interest he becomes an expert overnight., knowing more about some topics than even uwi PhDs.


That doesn't correlate to the definition of Aspergers. Also you mistake my approaches to logic as a disorder. You claim paying too much attention to everything is a disorder. So being the opposite of an ADD is also a disorder. I don't have any biases (except one) discussing any topic with a willing participant, regardless of intellectual stature, once they are willing to be intellectually honest when communicating.

My only bias is that they use some form of reasoning to deduce their points.

Are you implying that we should only discuss matters with those on our same intellectual level? By whose rules do you judge the intellectual capability of an individual?.

If a uwi PhD (seemingly) made an error in his method of explanation is he only allowed to be corrected by another uwi Phd? Is this the way you view communication should be done?

If this is the proper way of communicating and my approach should be classified as a disorder then I'm happy with my disorder.

Thanks for pointing it out though.

Tell me something:
Would anything outside of what you consider to be normal not be considered a disorder?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluesclues » June 14th, 2015, 2:47 am

MD Marketers wrote:Ok I been dreading this moment a long time now. Gonna start reading from page 1.
If I suffer from an aneurism, know that it was for a good cause. Wish me luck.


if ud like to experience an aneurysm i recommend especially reading my comments. if u dont experience an aneurysm ull get a full refund.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluesclues » June 14th, 2015, 2:49 am

Daran wrote:Asperger's manifests itself in online communication many ways and the traits I observe in you is a slight niave and unnecessary obsession in a specific field. That's all there was to my claim.

My friend who has this type of high functioning autism has perhaps the best game of any person I know. The guy can charm and seduce any chicken, but is almost always naive and unaware that they want him. Which leads to lots of pissed of women when he doesn't reciprocate.

Also any topic that pikes his interest he becomes an expert overnight., knowing more about some topics than even uwi PhDs.


thanks for not calling me by name bro. uze a real brohoss.:mrgreen:

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 16th, 2015, 6:56 am

I am not Atheist. I don't know if God exists.
I am not Theist. I don't know if God doesn't exist.
I am not Agnostic. I don't care if God does or doesn't exist. I care about more important things; logic, reasoning, understanding, communication & making a difference. It adds meaning to my life. If he did exist I would value him the same as I would value anyone else in this world.

If I never existed then God cannot possibly exist "to me"
Therefore "to me" I am more important than God. If he did exist he could try to prove how he is more important than me all he wants, but without me there to listen it, it becomes unimportant. I am the most important thing to me. As a result will not give my life for God. It's like saying I should be grateful for him giving me life by giving it back.
In my world I supercede God (if he did exist).

If God is real this is what I would say to him:
"Sorry God, call it a disadvantage of being real if you want, and you can punish me for all eternity but it doesn't change the fact that it's true."

If God would speak to me (visions, books, people, etc) I would not listen to him simply because he is God, I will listen if his words make logical sense & his reasoning is sound.

Religious people listen to something they think is God not because it makes logical sense but because he is God.

Therefore to assume God is more important than you is to throw reasoning out the door. How do you expect to communicate a message you got from God if you aren't using some form of reasoning? If you aren't using reasoning then why should we listen to you?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 16th, 2015, 7:48 am

Please read my above post if you think I say this for a religious agenda.
I say it on the side of objective reasoning

I once saw someone in this thread assert that "God" cannot be "all powerful" because "he created the world in 6 days & had to take a day off to rest.

To claim a creator is not "all powerful" because "he created the world in 6 days & on the 7th day he rested" is incorrect. This does not mean he is limited by time & fatigue.

This is simply an explanation of how the world was created from the perspective of the creator (assuming he really was the creator) so that we can understand what took place.

If the creator transcends his creation it would mean that to him he created the world in 0 days & he never rested. This because he transcends time (if you assume that time is also his creation).

How & why would you explain this to a being that is bound by the limits of time & space?

From their perspective reality the universe was not created absent time & space or we would not be in existence on this physical plain. How & why would you explain to a being that they do not exist right now in this physical world when all the evidence points to the contrary? What is the point of communicating with someone if you start with the assumption that they do not exist?
That's like asking an atheist to trust God & he will reveal himself to you.

From a theoretical physics point of view:
If you assume the empathy of a present day star dust that was launched into existence at 1.4 billion times the speed of a proton the universe could have been created in 6 days. Time dilation proves this to a certain degree. The faster we go the slower time becomes. However, if we assume that speed has a limit then the universe cannot be created in 6 days. At the speed of light from the empathy of a photon the universe never got created & therefore a photon doesn't exist. This seems flawed logic since we already know photons exist. It's more logical to assume that there is no universal speed limit but that the fastest speed ever recorded from the empathy of initial singularity (point of the big bang) to it's present position in time/space is 6 days (assuming that God was there at the beginning & could verify his claim with scientific testing)
Last edited by MD Marketers on June 16th, 2015, 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby HSA » June 16th, 2015, 8:29 am

can belief be materialized?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 16th, 2015, 8:13 pm

HSA wrote:can belief be materialized?

Do you mean:
If the non physical world of our consciousness can affect this reality?

The answer is yes.
See:
Double slit experiment

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby York » June 17th, 2015, 11:50 am

new guru in town?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluesclues » June 18th, 2015, 12:14 pm

MD Marketers wrote:
HSA wrote:can belief be materialized?

Do you mean:
If the non physical world of our consciousness can affect this reality?

The answer is yes.
See:
Double slit experiment


err no. the double slit experiment does NOT demonstrate that. be versed in understanding of quantum theory before saying such noobish things. the issue is a paradox which permeates all of physical reality. the laws which govern physicality itself are found in a base of dual-nature particles. the sub layers of reality are waves of energy making this up. those waves are excited and form particles, they then fade back into being part of the whole wave when the catalyst is no longer present. yes, when light emerges a particle manifests but the light doesnt move as a wave because of it's nature. it moves as a wave because the fundamental backdrop of reality is a wave.

just talkin mih usual splashaw. yuh know me. not an educated bone in meh bodeh lol

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 18th, 2015, 8:02 pm

bluesclues wrote:
MD Marketers wrote:
HSA wrote:can belief be materialized?

Do you mean:
If the non physical world of our consciousness can affect this reality?

The answer is yes.
See:
Double slit experiment


err no. the double slit experiment does NOT demonstrate that. be versed in understanding of quantum theory before saying such noobish things. the issue is a paradox which permeates all of physical reality. the laws which govern physicality itself are found in a base of dual-nature particles. the sub layers of reality are waves of energy making this up. those waves are excited and form particles, they then fade back into being part of the whole wave when the catalyst is no longer present. yes, when light emerges a particle manifests but the light doesnt move as a wave because of it's nature. it moves as a wave because the fundamental backdrop of reality is a wave.

just talkin mih usual splashaw. yuh know me. not an educated bone in meh bodeh lol


I haven't read any of these things you just wrote in any scientific research. Where did you find this information?

The double slit experiment shows the following:

If you shoot an electron without a sensor monitoring the slit it will produce a wave type pattern over time upon exiting the slit(s), but if you shoot the electron with the sensor monitoring the slit(s) it will produce a particle type pattern over time.
This means when any attempt is made to observe the electron before it passes through the slit it will not only affect the result but it also causes it.
Observation is a defining feature of consciousness, therefore it would seem that our non physical minds affect this physical world.

Science may someday find new evidence to debunk this theory but, until such time, we must explain the results using the evidence we have.

If science shows that the most obvious explanation for the double slit experiment is that observation absent physical interaction can still affect the physical then why deny it?

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluesclues » June 19th, 2015, 10:25 am

MD Marketers wrote:
bluesclues wrote:
MD Marketers wrote:
HSA wrote:can belief be materialized?

Do you mean:
If the non physical world of our consciousness can affect this reality?

The answer is yes.
See:
Double slit experiment


err no. the double slit experiment does NOT demonstrate that. be versed in understanding of quantum theory before saying such noobish things. the issue is a paradox which permeates all of physical reality. the laws which govern physicality itself are found in a base of dual-nature particles. the sub layers of reality are waves of energy making this up. those waves are excited and form particles, they then fade back into being part of the whole wave when the catalyst is no longer present. yes, when light emerges a particle manifests but the light doesnt move as a wave because of it's nature. it moves as a wave because the fundamental backdrop of reality is a wave.

just talkin mih usual splashaw. yuh know me. not an educated bone in meh bodeh lol


I haven't read any of these things you just wrote in any scientific research. Where did you find this information?

The double slit experiment shows the following:

If you shoot an electron without a sensor monitoring the slit it will produce a wave type pattern over time upon exiting the slit(s), but if you shoot the electron with the sensor monitoring the slit(s) it will produce a particle type pattern over time.
This means when any attempt is made to observe the electron before it passes through the slit it will not only affect the result but it also causes it.
Observation is a defining feature of consciousness, therefore it would seem that our non physical minds affect this physical world.

Science may someday find new evidence to debunk this theory but, until such time, we must explain the results using the evidence we have.

If science shows that the most obvious explanation for the double slit experiment is that observation absent physical interaction can still affect the physical then why deny it?


this is a more accurate explanation. but the statement 'the observer affects a change' is a hypothesis not an accepted scientific fact. the facts are that consciousness is a wave. and consciousness converts the wave into physicality. ie. light particles./photons. so yes since our minds are consciousness we can affect changes on reality. but not thats not the same as what is observed in double slit experiments. what is truly observed in the ds experiment(not the layman's explanation).. is that the photons are travelling on a wave and thats what makes them appear to no longer travel in straight lines and produce wave forms on the backdrop. its like the traintracks that light travel on(the wave) get revealed. obviously a particle cannot be a wave at the same time. so if u want to understand what is really going on.. remember the wave forms matter/light particles, and then collapses back into the wave. the particles come out from the wave. made from the wave. and then back into the wave.


the graph in this report should give you a better idea of what im talking about.
phys.org/news/2015-03-particle.html

obviously light cannot be both a particle and a wave at the same time but that is all that is thus far apparent as part of the paradox. so just remember that darkmatter is the un-excited wave. and light /particles form when the wave is excited by a specific catalyst. then when the catalyst goes away the light falls back into the darkmatter wave. its pretty simple.

this explanation also explains why light can travel faster than the speed of light. its the field/catalyst underlying that travels faster than light and the dark matter which is everywhere(consciousness) gets excited and creates lighting particles wherever the field is applied or extended. another huge catalyst is doing this to maintain atoms in formation, and all solid matter. this massive consciousness that put down the foundation for all this is what religious nutters call God.

i explained this nature of light's underlying wave nature a good while before science published that graph and discovery btw. understood it from the findings in the double slit. well, that and that i can actually see the fabric of reality like neo and see particles forming out of the wave constantly to upkeep reality ;) ive also said a couple things they havent quite figured out yet above.. but.. just give them time ;) like about the field which makes light appear to move faster than the speed of light etc.

i should publish a paper and call it 'the bluesclues field' because science barely knows it exists. but someone will fight me and say its the higg's boson lol

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 19th, 2015, 12:35 pm

bluesclues wrote:
MD Marketers wrote:
bluesclues wrote:
MD Marketers wrote:
HSA wrote:can belief be materialized?

Do you mean:
If the non physical world of our consciousness can affect this reality?

The answer is yes.
See:
Double slit experiment


err no. the double slit experiment does NOT demonstrate that. be versed in understanding of quantum theory before saying such noobish things. the issue is a paradox which permeates all of physical reality. the laws which govern physicality itself are found in a base of dual-nature particles. the sub layers of reality are waves of energy making this up. those waves are excited and form particles, they then fade back into being part of the whole wave when the catalyst is no longer present. yes, when light emerges a particle manifests but the light doesnt move as a wave because of it's nature. it moves as a wave because the fundamental backdrop of reality is a wave.

just talkin mih usual splashaw. yuh know me. not an educated bone in meh bodeh lol


I haven't read any of these things you just wrote in any scientific research. Where did you find this information?

The double slit experiment shows the following:

If you shoot an electron without a sensor monitoring the slit it will produce a wave type pattern over time upon exiting the slit(s), but if you shoot the electron with the sensor monitoring the slit(s) it will produce a particle type pattern over time.
This means when any attempt is made to observe the electron before it passes through the slit it will not only affect the result but it also causes it.
Observation is a defining feature of consciousness, therefore it would seem that our non physical minds affect this physical world.

Science may someday find new evidence to debunk this theory but, until such time, we must explain the results using the evidence we have.

If science shows that the most obvious explanation for the double slit experiment is that observation absent physical interaction can still affect the physical then why deny it?


this is a more accurate explanation. but the statement 'the observer affects a change' is a hypothesis not an accepted scientific fact. the facts are that consciousness is a wave. and consciousness converts the wave into physicality. ie. light particles./photons. so yes since our minds are consciousness we can affect changes on reality. but not thats not the same as what is observed in double slit experiments. what is truly observed in the ds experiment(not the layman's explanation).. is that the photons are travelling on a wave and thats what makes them appear to no longer travel in straight lines and produce wave forms on the backdrop. its like the traintracks that light travel on(the wave) get revealed. obviously a particle cannot be a wave at the same time. so if u want to understand what is really going on.. remember the wave forms matter/light particles, and then collapses back into the wave. the particles come out from the wave. made from the wave. and then back into the wave.


the graph in this report should give you a better idea of what im talking about.
phys.org/news/2015-03-particle.html

obviously light cannot be both a particle and a wave at the same time but that is all that is thus far apparent as part of the paradox. so just remember that darkmatter is the un-excited wave. and light /particles form when the wave is excited by a specific catalyst. then when the catalyst goes away the light falls back into the darkmatter wave. its pretty simple.

this explanation also explains why light can travel faster than the speed of light. its the field/catalyst underlying that travels faster than light and the dark matter which is everywhere(consciousness) gets excited and creates lighting particles wherever the field is applied or extended. another huge catalyst is doing this to maintain atoms in formation, and all solid matter. this massive consciousness that put down the foundation for all this is what religious nutters call God.

i explained this nature of light's underlying wave nature a good while before science published that graph and discovery btw. understood it from the findings in the double slit. well, that and that i can actually see the fabric of reality like neo and see particles forming out of the wave constantly to upkeep reality ;) ive also said a couple things they havent quite figured out yet above.. but.. just give them time ;) like about the field which makes light appear to move faster than the speed of light etc.

i should publish a paper and call it 'the bluesclues field' because science barely knows it exists. but someone will fight me and say its the higg's boson lol

I don't mind new researches and strange concepts but at least follow some form of logic & show some sort of evidence or explanation when you make the claims.

The statement observation affects the result is a true statement based on the findings, but to claim that consciousness is a field and that it's a known scientific fact needs a lot more proof.
Where did you find this research?
How was it proven?
Can you duplicate the result or explain how you came to that conclusion?
I would also like to point out something.
A fact is not an absolute truth.
A fact is a thing that is known or proved to be true.
This does not mean a fact cannot be proven to be false by science later on. Some continue to be proven wrong over time.
This is not to say that we shouldn't believe in them. If all the evidence proves that the best explanation is "this one" then it is more reasonable to accept the fact presented as opposed to the less likely ones.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluesclues » June 19th, 2015, 12:53 pm

MD Marketers wrote:
The statement observation affects the result is a true statement based on the findings


well im not going to argue, but the statement is actually a hypothesis that cannot be agreed upon. u can look that up. as i said, it 'appears' that observation affects the result is much more true and factual statement by scientific standards. remember the observation in question is not human observation. but observation recorded by machinery. so jumping into saying consciousness affects the result as a direct statement is pure postulation. in the experiment the term 'observe' is not used to mean a human observer, but is referring to the machinery that does the observation and recording. im not really saying that what ur saying is wrong. but its kind of the way scientists try to put things in layman's terms for the average person to understand without actually following scientific data. in making it easy to understand as possible as in some bbc documentaries, the actual process and scientific jargon can be still misleading. alot of people say what you said because a documentary, which ive also seen, says so. but more detailed study will shine more light on whats really going on at the quantum level. i see it all working so clearly together. waves and particles, energy. its all so simple. all is energy. all is a wave. seperation and distinctness associated with physicality is an illusion. meaning, temporary, or for as long as the catalyst facilitates or animates that which is physically manifest.


and no i am very clear on what a fact is. an example of what is not a fact is.. 'pluto is a planet'. then later.. pluto is not a planet. for so many who have died, pluto was one of the nine planets. to them that was a 'fact'. however that changed years later. a fact does not change. a fact is a fact whether you know it or not. whether uve discovered it or not, or whether you understand it fully enough. so yes, all ive said are facts. real facts are how things are. just wait for science to publish articles on my facts which they havent discovered yet. it happens aaalll the time. like i said, i understand everything. this whole world. the universe in operation. its beautiful really.

the blessing is knowing truth. the curse is knowing truth and its like ur the only one who does. #ijustlol

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby MD Marketers » June 19th, 2015, 2:39 pm

bluesclues wrote:
MD Marketers wrote:
The statement observation affects the result is a true statement based on the findings


well im not going to argue, but the statement is actually a hypothesis that cannot be agreed upon. u can look that up. as i said, it 'appears' that observation affects the result is much more true and factual statement by scientific standards. remember the observation in question is not human observation. but observation recorded by machinery. so jumping into saying consciousness affects the result as a direct statement is pure postulation. in the experiment the term 'observe' is not used to mean a human observer, but is referring to the machinery that does the observation and recording. im not really saying that what ur saying is wrong. but its kind of the way scientists try to put things in layman's terms for the average person to understand without actually following scientific data. in making it easy to understand as possible as in some bbc documentaries, the actual process and scientific jargon can be still misleading. alot of people say what you said because a documentary, which ive also seen, says so. but more detailed study will shine more light on whats really going on at the quantum level. i see it all working so clearly together. waves and particles, energy. its all so simple. all is energy. all is a wave. seperation and distinctness associated with physicality is an illusion. meaning, temporary, or for as long as the catalyst facilitates or animates that which is physically manifest.


and no i am very clear on what a fact is. an example of what is not a fact is.. 'pluto is a planet'. then later.. pluto is not a planet. for so many who have died, pluto was one of the nine planets. to them that was a 'fact'. however that changed years later. a fact does not change. a fact is a fact whether you know it or not. whether uve discovered it or not, or whether you understand it fully enough. so yes, all ive said are facts. real facts are how things are. just wait for science to publish articles on my facts which they havent discovered yet. it happens aaalll the time. like i said, i understand everything. this whole world. the universe in operation. its beautiful really.

the blessing is knowing truth. the curse is knowing truth and its like ur the only one who does. #ijustlol


You do realize you just made statements that sound like this:
"Consciousness is energy"
"above statement is a fact"
"facts can't change"
"facts that changed weren't a fact"

Before I reply to the above statements I would like you to verify this is a basic understanding of what you said.

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Re: The Religion Discussion

Postby bluesclues » June 19th, 2015, 3:49 pm

consciousnes is energy.. yes and no. consciousness possesses energy. energy is something within consciousness but doesnt make itself apparent unless it wants to. which to us.. it has to a great extent.

facts dont change. correct. if u use my perspective that a fact even if it has evolving or changing properties is indeed a fact. if a fact was identified before the constant changes were observed then it was an incomplete fact. incomplete facts i do consider facts in the process of completion. but alot of people refer to certain things as facts which are totally untrue, and later discovered to have been totally untrue and retracted. those are the kind of 'facts' i steer away from. you know.. like dying believing the earth was flat. really misleading. facts that just need building upon thru discovery i can identify and agree with. and alot of times, complete and provide a hypothesis that is totally factual based on the incomplete fact or observation. which i did in my post on the double slit and what it means to a small degree.

to provide an eg of a changing fact that is incomplete.
a certain type of bird lets call it.. the peewa, has a yellow tail. factual statement. all peewas have yellow tails. later its discovered that peewas over 3yrs in a 4yr lifespan tails change to red. later its discovered, the peewa only mates in its 4th and last year of its lifespan and its only the females that tails turn red. etc etc etc. so finally when the full process is well observed. we have this fact.. all pewas have yellow tails until theyve entered their 3rd year of life when the females start calling and their tails change colour to red.

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