Property Tax in Trinidad & Tobago

[nemisis]

^^^ who buying these hot bread cars though? How many minimum wage employees you know buying new or foreign used? I know a good amount and none own a vehicle less than 10 years old.


“ I shouldn’t have used the word own more like posses”

[88sins]

soo, the justification for high fines is revenue generation?


great is the PNM!!!!

Why they taking so long to implement this tax ? Should have been in place months ago.Trini like too much free thing...free mail delivery, drain cleaning, rodent control, disaster relief, etc. Yet still cars selling like hot bread to clog our already congested roadways.

Mail delivery isn't free, that's why we buy postage
Cleaning waterways & drains isn't free, but it isn't the public's responsibility to pay for it either. That falls squarely on the shoulders of 2 state bodies, regional corporations & WASA. Don't believe it? Run a line & divert water from a drain into a pond on your property & see how fast you get fined for stealing water, as well as a bill for it.
The average homeowner actually does more, & a better job at it, at keeping vermin (rats, roaches, mosquitoes, flies, etc) out of their property than anything any state body could say they did.
It's their duty to provide for citizens in event of natural disaster. It's one of the duties they accept responsibility for the moment thet run for office.


If ppl buying vehicles to improve their quality of life, & you got an issue with that, you'll have an issue for the rest of your life your. Most people have some sort of ambition, however small the goal, & not everybody is happy to peddle a bmx, or to wait on a bus (if it comes on time)

[TriP]

22-4-18 - this morning express

https://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/lo ... 24aa2.html

PENSIONERS will not be exempt from paying property tax once the Property Tax (Amendment) Bill is passed.

This was the position of Minister in the Ministry of Finance Allyson West as she responded to a question from Opposition Senator Wade Mark during the debate on the bill in the Senate on Friday evening.

Mark had questioned whether a committee would be set up to deal with people who could not afford to pay the property tax like pensioners and other persons.

However, West said being a pensioner did not automatically mean a person cannot afford to pay the tax.

[The_Honourable]

Minister: Squatters to also pay Property Tax

Squatters, other illegal land occupants and people with “less than perfect” property titles will have to pay the upcoming property tax along with other citizens, says Minister in Finance Allyson West.

West confirmed the situation in yesterday’s Senate debate of amendments to the Valuation of Land law.

Debate will follow on amendments to Property Tax law for the tax to be collected.

On concerns about people who hold land certificates, but aren’t owners, West said, “Yes, the intention is that anybody who falls under the definition of owner, whether legal owner or occupier, will have a tax liability.”

“It doesn’t matter that you’re not the legal owner of the land or (you are) a squatter, as someone occupying property, you’re also enjoying the benefits of services provided by the regional corporations of the State.

“Why should you, because you’re illegally occupying land or because you’re occupying land under a less than perfect title, why should you not contribute to payment for those services? That’s Government’s position. We’re intending to assess properties like that to tax and to collect taxes from people in that area. I’ll deal with that when I come to the Property Tax Legislation.”

In an upcoming debate on the Property Tax, West said she’d also detail how the system will work for squatters who have certificates of comfort and those who don’t.

West assured upcoming land valuations won’t be bad and the property tax— based on annual rental value—won’t be high, I feel the annual rentable values won’t be unreasonable.”

She said concerns that elderly people wouldn’t be able to afford the tax were unfounded, also since the legislation provides relief for those unable to pay. West said her recent quote on increase of fines for non-submission of valuation forms—that “$500 was nothing”—was meant in the context that people often pay high prices for Carnival fetes and costumes.

“I’m not saying ($500) isn’t a lot, but it’s not enough of a deterrent on non-submission,” she added.

West said Government had heard other senators’ concerns on the minister’s power to appoint a tribunal—to hear objections to valuations and the tax—and amendments were being proposed on this.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2018-04- ... operty-tax

[D Diesel Report]

Man probably wishing they were time travellers so they could teleport to 2025 (because Bawlhead winning 2020, COP just said it going solo) and not worry about all this stupidness.

[sMASH]

non submission is 500? i think
the increased the mistake on the form to 5000.
and then u still have to pay the tax.

the relief isnt any government grant. if it IS approved, it is a deferral of the tax levied on the property, where the subsequent owners/occupiers would have to clear that debt.

so, if u cant pay it, u go to them, tell them ur stories, if they think that is true, they say that the tax is deferred, and every year it is calculated, tallied, and it accrues so that any other person occupying the land, will have to pay it off... in addition to paying the tax for their duration.

[hydroep]

Collecting tax from squatters...yeah right, that is just to show the population "they going after everybody." But in reality no Government officer going to risk getting planass to collect a $ 20, just like they eh going to jumbee no bigwig and risk losing their job — or worse yet — their life...

[Dave]

Collecting tax from squatters is a sure way not to get re-elected

[ProtonPowder]

To be fair, if the govt automatically gave senior citizens a bligh on the tax, the amount of fraud that would happen would be insane, far more than the usual amount for city/corporation assessments and stamp duty.

Under section 23 of the Property tax act

23. (1) The Board may upon the application of the owner of
land authorise the deferral of the payment of the assessed tax on
the land on the grounds of the impoverished condition of the
owner and his inability to improve his financial position
significantly by reason of age, impaired health or other special
circumstances, that undue hardship to that owner would
otherwise ensue.
(2) An application under subsection (1) shall be made in
writing in the prescribed form and shall be accompanied by
evidence that the applicant—
(a) is in receipt of—
(i) a public assistance grant;
(ii) a disability grant;
(iii) a senior citizens’ pension; or
(iv) a Trinidad and Tobago conditional cash
transfer card,
from the State; or
(b) does not receive an annual income exceeding
the maximum amount specified in section 3 of
the Senior Citizens’ Pension Act.
(3) A certificate under subsection (2) shall be conclusive
of the owner’s inability to pay tax assessed under this Act.

[88sins]

What bligh? Its only a deferral, & only if certain qualifications are satisfied. And the deferred tax will be payable by the next person to take possession of the property.

[ProtonPowder]

You are correct, its just a deferral, so you will have to pay if you decide to sell or gift the property via a deed of conveyance or gift. The exception is death of the owner, where the heirs are also incapable of paying the tax.

27. (1) Subject to subsection (2), any period of deferment
specified in an authorisation issued under section 23 shall determine
on the death of the owner concerned and thereupon the tax in respect
of which deferment was authorised shall become immediately due
and payable out of the estate of the deceased owner.
(2) Where the Board is satisfied, having regard to the
impoverished condition of the successors in title of the estate and
his inability to improve his financial position significantly by
reason of age, impaired health or other special circumstances,
that undue hardship to that successor in title would otherwise
ensue, the Board may recommend that the President authorise
the total or partial exemption of the tax payable up to the death
of the deceased owner.

[De Dragon]

22-4-18 - this morning express

https://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/lo ... 24aa2.html

PENSIONERS will not be exempt from paying property tax once the Property Tax (Amendment) Bill is passed.

This was the position of Minister in the Ministry of Finance Allyson West as she responded to a question from Opposition Senator Wade Mark during the debate on the bill in the Senate on Friday evening.

Mark had questioned whether a committee would be set up to deal with people who could not afford to pay the property tax like pensioners and other persons.

However, West said being a pensioner did not automatically mean a person cannot afford to pay the tax.

This not the same manheaded one who say Trinis spend $800 for fete tickets, and 10K for costume so dey could afford 5K penalty? I could never figure out that logic. Unless every single home owner paid for high priced tickets/costumes, then she talking ah heap ah sheit.

[88sins]

well in her defense


she is a pnm trained jackass, so she should be expected to bray pnm taught bs

[shake d livin wake d dead]

I real interested in the squatters paying this tax...wanna see how beethamites would be charged

[The_Honourable]

But Imbert say last year it makes no sense going after the squatters because the costs involved collecting them outweighs the low taxes collected from them.

[EFFECTIC DESIGNS]

What going on with this property tax? when we hadda start paying?

Could we hold it off until PNM loses the next election? faster we get rid of these people the better

[rspann]

I hear if a piece of land developed with coconut trees and they know you making money, they counting the trees and figuring how much you could make for the year and charging accordingly. Ed ,watch out.

[ProtonPowder]

I hear if a piece of land developed with coconut trees and they know you making money, they counting the trees and figuring how much you could make for the year and charging accordingly. Ed ,watch out.

For now they only dealing with pure residential properties, and the odd mixed use if there is a parlour under the house.

Also, they dont deal with profits method of valuation at all, in agriculture or commercial, so whoever tell you that is a grade A backside.

The only time they go about counting trees is for Compulsory Acquisitions and they trying to estimate how much to compensate the owner.

[rspann]

You taking what I say serious? Dawg this is ole talk and I frightening Ed because he owns coconut trees.You new? It hard when you make a joke and you have to explain it.

[ProtonPowder]

i took it serious because its a legitimate method of valuation, albeit one that the government doesnt use

Other people will take it serious because they nervous about the lack of any useful info the government giving and it seems plausible

[sMASH]

it is a valid means of valuation.. how productive the land is...
the only land that they called us about was the agricultural land deep in moruga, to get directions because it hard to find compared to the others. so, to me, i feel they doing every thing.

[SR]

Right so what is the recognised law on this at present?? Are they ready new forms again?

[ProtonPowder]

jed, i dont even know if the new forms ready.

They still accept the old forms at valuations divisions, and if you submit, i doubt they want you to submit again if your info is detailed enough (deed and utility bill)

[The_Honourable]

Senator slams retroactive Property Tax: Gov’t making poverty a crime

As debate continued on the controversial Property Tax (Amendment) Bill 2018 in the Senate on Tuesday, Opposition Senator Taharqa Obika slammed government for planning to tax squatters and also raised concerns over its proposal for the tax to be retroactive.

Noting that there are over 300,000 squatters in Trinidad and Tobago, the Opposition Senator said many of them are forced to squat and therefore they should not be taxed.

“Taxing squatting communities is immoral, unethical and should not be part of any bill that passes this house and any person of conscience will not support such clauses…These are the people that are the salt of the earth. They are the people that make up the bedrock of our society. This government by this tax is making poverty a crime in Trinidad and Tobago."

Obiqa also opposed what he described as the ‘ridiculous’ retroactive clause, which would make property owners liable to pay back-dated taxes from 2016-2017

This as he expressed concern that citizens may have to pay taxes from 2016.

"...When you make this thing retroactive from the 30th of September, 2016—so it means to say 2016 to 2017, you have to pay back-dated taxes, and 2017 to 2018, 30th of September, we are called upon to pay back taxes. Madam President, if that is not the height of irresponsibility and almost—I “go to say” evil and wickedness on the part of any administration, I do not know what is."

“The people of Trinidad and Tobago are tired. The tax to recovery regime has failed. There is no need to add this ridiculous clause for retroactive payment,” Obika said.

Meanwhile, Independent Senator Stephen Creese also raised concern about retroactivity.


The Independent Senator questioned what would happen to those people who have signed lease agreements or bought and sold property inside of the retroactive period.

“I have a concern with that in the sense that, retroactive legislation is always one fraught with difficulty especially in land-related and land tax matters,” he said.

And, Independent Senator Melissa Ramkissoon said she does not support the tax at this time.

‘So for Trinidad and Tobago, I personally believe an increase in Property Tax revenue is not necessary at this time and an increased tax rate can be viewed as oppressive.”

However, Minister in the Ministry of Finance Allyson West said the tax is necessary.

She urged the public to stop thinking that it is a ‘fearsome’ tax, but one that is required.

“It is incumbent in us to recognize that in the context of where Trinidad and Tobago is, not necessarily financially, but the nature of the economy what we want the government to supply, how we want it to supply it, the fact that we have to improve our delivery of services, it is a tax that is required, it is a tax that is prudent,” she said.

Source: http://www.looptt.com/content/senator-s ... erty-crime

[The_Honourable]

Senators against retroactive Property Tax

Ridiculous to have retroactive Property Tax!

That’s the view of Opposition Senator Taharqa Obika who, along with Independent Senator Stephen Creese, yesterday expressed concerns about retroactive property tax . That is, if the moratorium on the tax ends in September 2016 .

Concerns were expressed in the Senate as debate continued concerning amendments to the Property Tax Act.

A clause in the bill on the Property Tax, which went to the House of Representatives previously, had stated the extended moratorium on the tax would have ended in September 2018. It was reportedly amended in final (committee) stage of House discussions to read “September 2016.” That was passed.

The amended version of the bill, now being debated by the Senate, proposes the extended moratorium end in September 2016 .

If the bill is passed with that clause, concerns have arisen that the tax might begin applying from 2016 with possibly almost two years of retroactivity depending on when it actually starts.

Piloting the bill in the Senate recently, Minister in Finance Allyson West—when asked by other Senators if Government might extend the moratorium beyond 2016— had said Government would have to examine the situation.

Yesterday, in Senate, Opposition Senator Obika said proposed retroactivity of the tax was “ridiculous”

“There’s no reason for this, there are already so many taxes,” Obika added.

Independent Senator Stephen Creese also said any degree of retroactivity is always fraught with difficulty.

Creese questioned what would apply with people who have signed lease or purchase agreements for property in the period when the bill was under debate and how they would deal with normal transactional queries on whether the property had any encumbrances - like taxes.

“Who’d be liable?” Creese asked, wondering if it would be the outgoing or incoming owner.

Obika also championed the cause of T&T’s 300,000 squatters— including 50,000 families— on whom he said imposition of property tax would be immoral and unethical. (See Page A8)

“Any person of conscience will never support the proposal (for squatters to pay property tax.)” Obika added.

“When a parent doesn’t have $20 to send their child on a school excursion- and I’ve seen this - you think they would have money to pay property tax?!”

“If people are forced to squat, you believe they could afford taxes? Government is making poverty a crime!”

Obika said the Poperty Tax would dissaude people from developing properties for fear of larger taxes and this in turn will stymie businesses, including insurance since people may be unable to pay premiums. He said the former Land and Building Tax was a more feasible plan.

Opposition Senator Wade Mark last night signalled the Opposition has amendments to the bill including to delete the clause calling for the moratorium to end in “September 2016”and to return it to “September 2018” to avoid retroactivity.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.tt/news/2018-05- ... operty-tax

[shake d livin wake d dead]

da retroactive thing is ah scene eh...some men might hada take loan to pay that

[hydroep]

Make it retroactive...people cyar pay it. Properties get seized and then auctioned off. Guess who's gonna snap them up?

Anthony Bourdain should do a follow up show in a few years — just to see how things have "progressed"...

[88sins]

da retroactive thing is ah scene eh...some men might hada take loan to pay that

Make it retroactive...people cyar pay it. Properties get seized and then auctioned off. Guess who's gonna snap them up?

Anthony Bourdain should do a follow up show in a few years — just to see how things have "progressed"...

& dey eh riot yet

[paid_influencer]

retroactive property tax sounding good. gee dem. gee dem til they red and ready again

[88sins]

retroactive property tax sounding good. gee dem. gee dem til they red and ready again

dis woulda make sense if u wasn't one of d "dem"