The Religion Discussion

[Habit7]

As a christian, this is disgusting behavior. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you..some people really need to look at themselves and see who they really following.

In order to bring clarity, what exactly is "disgusting behavior"?

[AdamB]

Habit7 = Quran Burning??
Allah made MAN in the "best of moulds", then HE has given some the ability/will to make themselves the "lowest of the low"....

[AdamB]

As a christian, this is disgusting behavior. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you..some people really need to look at themselves and see who they really following.

In order to bring clarity, what exactly is "disgusting behavior"?

Meccalli,
They are ignorant, full stop. They don't follow the example of their prophet, Jesus, who is reported to have said in their own book, "FORGIVE THEM FATHER (GOD), FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO!!!"

[megadoc1]

lol ...muslims always charge stuff like this

They (especially the Jews) have changed, taken away, added ie corrupted the bible.

then they start sticking their fingers in theirs ears when you expose documented troubles regarding the Qur'an

[16 cycles]

can't condone burning the religious text of another faith...nor the posting of it to incense those belonging to that faith....

expected better from tuners.../ trinidadians..

[Habit7]

Habit7 = Quran Burning??
Allah made MAN in the "best of moulds", then HE has given some the ability/will to make themselves the "lowest of the low"....

I in no way, advocate the burning or desecration any other persons religious possessions. The video does not call for the burning of Qurans but it speaks about the disputed versions of the Qurans being burnt by Islamic Scholars to leave only one dominant Quran.

[megadoc1]

can't condone burning the religious text of another faith...nor the posting of it to incense those belonging to that faith....

expected better from tuners.../ trinidadians..

the vid was about Muslims burning other versions of the quran

note: not translations eh but versions

[16 cycles]

^ same concept applies....

boss man/woman will decide which version of the text was right etc...if there is a GOD/s..etc etc...see page 1 to 540

[Habit7]

^^^Well it was a historical occurrence according to Islamic accounts. By retelling a historic event, one is not directly advocating a repeat action.

So referencing history is off bounds now?

[16 cycles]

^ know better than to argue with allyuh.....

if you firmly believe you justified in your actions and no malice was intended towards followers of Islam frequenting this thread...then big up...

for me....i wouldn't post it....but we all different and i could respect that

[Habit7]

I want no special treatment for Christianity, if someone wants to try to poke holes into Christianity go right ahead, they did it to Christ.

But we can't have a moral standard for one religion and another moral standard for everyone else.

[megadoc1]

there are many claims regarding the bible posted here, from it being corrupted to being made up in a time of Constantine and a whole lot of misinformation that has been refuted time and time again
but the muslims on here still holds to their beliefs WRT the bible being corrupted despite being unable to produce such proof ,all the video shows is that there is documented information regarding the Qur'an , if the Muslims think that the bible can be discredited by the accusations that they level against it (minus proof as usual ) then the Qur'an would be in bigger trouble by such standards because all one needs to do is to read the history of it

[16 cycles]

.... and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us...

almost sure most religions subscribe to the words above.....

take it easy...

[Habit7]

It is a 'Religion Discussion' if someone attacks my religion I don't need to forgive them because they haven't trespassed against me. It is an avenue to voice your opinion on religion and have it supported, refuted or ignored. If you find that offensive then it is best that you do not enter the discussion. This is a free speech area (well at least I hope it is).

2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

I'd actually agree with Habit7 here. The video talks about accounts where Muslims burnt version of the Qur'an which they felt were not the true version. The video actually upholds the concept of not burning any book on the grounds that all texts should be preserved for future generations to have access to in order to compare and contrast.

Also posting a reference does not mean you support it; even though Habit7 claimed earlier that because I quoted someone I shared their thinking.

and it seems the need to "reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching" is required when defending faith; obviously not so required when stating fact

[Habit7]

Well the fact is I said that when you reference someones erroneous claims as a counterpoint, you own that statement. I never said you shared their thinking.

However religious discussions is not for the weak, your back has to be broad. Maybe if there were more avenues for sensible and intellectual religious discussion and understanding there would be less violence confrontation within and between ideological worldviews.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

^ perhaps except that everyone thinks they are right with absolute certainty.

Also unlike other discussions, people tend to get violent when discussing religion.

And it is your opinion that what I referenced was erroneous. Just as it was the maker of the referenced claim.

If you claim to believe X and I bring to your attention that another person believes Y, how is it I also own the belief of Y? The only thing I own there is my own point, that other people have varying beliefs from your own.

[Habit7]

perhaps except that everyone thinks they are right with absolute certainty.

And it is your opinion that what I referenced was erroneous. Just as it was the maker of the referenced claim.

Thank you for being the determiner of truth.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The truth that he has his opinion and you have yours. Neither of you can seem to bring evidence to sway the other side though since the "evidence" is based on faith and supernatural claims.

[Habit7]

The truth that he has his opinion and you have yours. Neither of you can seem to bring evidence to sway the other side though since the "evidence" is based on faith and supernatural claims.

Yip, so AdamB and I just have opinions, and you have...something that is not an opinion too. And my refutation fails because I haven't convinced those opposed and it is based on "faith and supernatural claims".

So even if we were to examine AdamB's counterclaims we should trust the Quran more because Arabic is spoken today and biblical languages aren't. Also, there is no proof for Jesus of the Bible. Therefore the Quran is on a stronger footing than the Bible when it comes to reliance for historical evidence.

The Bible is written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek, all languages spoken today if not in some derivative form while there is extensive scholastic linguistic study on those languages within the biblical historical context. Furthermore, should the history of Ancient Egyptian, Roman, British Isles, etc be less valid because they are recorded in a language form not spoken today? Could it be the reason for Arabic language perseverance today be not as a result of cultural significance but by the violence subjugation of conquered territories and the imposition of a language upon them in the name of Allah? Is this even worthy of being considered a counterpoint?

Tiberius Caesar, the ruler over the largest empire of the world at that time, we only have about 10 primary sources (including the New testament) within 150 years for his existence. Jesus of Nazareth, a Jewish peasant within the Roman Empire, who lived during the time of Tiberius Caesar's rule, there are over 42 primary sources with 150 years for the existence of Jesus, over 4 times more the most powerful man in the world at that time. Anyone denying the existence of Jesus is advertising their ignorance, and anyone relying on the Quran's 700 year later explanation must also reject the Gnostic 300 year later explanation also, and rely in a god that deceived the most faithful followers of his prophet.

Duane I believe absolute truth is knowable, but not all absolute truth claims are equally valid. Stop trying to align yourself with erroneous counterclaims because you end up sounding just as ridiculous as those who make them.

BTW how many people have you convinced to your viewpoint in the discussion so far? And if you see Sachetto and New Species, tell them I say hi and I miss chatting with them.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

The truth that he has his opinion and you have yours. Neither of you can seem to bring evidence to sway the other side though since the "evidence" is based on faith and supernatural claims.

Yip, so AdamB and I just have opinions, and you have...something that is not an opinion too. And my refutation fails because I haven't convinced those opposed and it is based on "faith and supernatural claims".

I am not the one making supernatural claims! You are!

if someone claims they saw a leprechaun in their car trunk then they have to prove it. They cannot say "well you cannot disprove that I saw a leprechaun, therefore it really does exist".

So even if we were to examine AdamB's counterclaims we should trust the Quran more because Arabic is spoken today and biblical languages aren't. Also, there is no proof for Jesus of the Bible. Therefore the Quran is on a stronger footing than the Bible when it comes to reliance for historical evidence.

The Bible is written in Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek, all languages spoken today if not in some derivative form while there is extensive scholastic linguistic study on those languages within the biblical historical context. Furthermore, should the history of Ancient Egyptian, Roman, British Isles, etc be less valid because they are recorded in a language form not spoken today? Could it be the reason for Arabic language perseverance today be not as a result of cultural significance but by the violence subjugation of conquered territories and the imposition of a language upon them in the name of Allah? Is this even worthy of being considered a counterpoint?

Tiberius Caesar, the ruler over the largest empire of the world at that time, we only have about 10 primary sources (including the New testament) within 150 years for his existence. Jesus of Nazareth, a Jewish peasant within the Roman Empire, who lived during the time of Tiberius Caesar's rule, there are over 42 primary sources with 150 years for the existence of Jesus, over 4 times more the most powerful man in the world at that time. Anyone denying the existence of Jesus is advertising their ignorance, and anyone relying on the Quran's 700 year later explanation must also reject the Gnostic 300 year later explanation also, and rely in a god that deceived the most faithful followers of his prophet.

Duane I believe absolute truth is knowable, but not all absolute truth claims are equally valid. Stop trying to align yourself with erroneous counterclaims because you end up sounding just as ridiculous as those who make them.

AdamnB didnt say Jesus didnt exist. He is saying there is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God, or God himself.

BTW how many people have you convinced to your viewpoint in the discussion so far?

my viewpoint is what exactly? that you are not bringing evidence to back up your claims? if so then yes they actually do agree with me. Unfortunately for them, you also agree with me that they are guilty of doing the same! It appears I have agreement all around!

again I am not the one making a supernatural claim. I am saying that science is based on observation and testing to find the truth, not on faith and belief.

And if you see Sachetto and New Species, tell them I say hi and I miss chatting with them.

so do I.

[megadoc1]

AdamnB didnt say Jesus didnt exist. He is saying there is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God, or God himself.

no Adam b did say there is no proof that Jesus existed.... I will find it

[stev]

all these translations of the different holy books and u all seriously think that no human mistakes were made during the process?

it very easy to see that a lot of teachings / guidelines in the holy books were interpreted wrong......the possibility exists (and probably high).

just saw the original languages that Habit7 posted.


Numbers 31:32
These were the spoils which remained of the plunder taken by the fighting men: 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys, and as for persons, 32,000 young women who had had no intercourse with a man.


some seriously large yet precise numbers there.

[megadoc1]

I am not the one making supernatural claims! You are!

if someone claims they saw a leprechaun in their car trunk then they have to prove it. They cannot say "well you cannot disprove that I saw a leprechaun, therefore it really does exist".

.

[Habit7]

AdamnB didnt say Jesus didnt exist. He is saying there is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God, or God himself.

no Adam b did say there is no proof that Jesus existed.... I will find it

No proof exists for your Jesus of the Bible, so what makes your Jesus correct and the one of the Quran wrong? A question Duane has been asking...

That was the claim I was refuting, proving it erroneous. A claim you represented and owned by referencing it as a counterclaim to my point, but I guess you wouldn't claim ownership the erroneous part.

But why bother, it wont be the first time someone views have been misrepresented even though we can all see it etched in cyberspace.

BTW aside from the snarkiness, great vid again megadoc

[stev]

been reading a lot of posts in here.....just wanted to insert this quote which is fitting

If you want to assert a truth, first make sure it's not just an opinion that you desperately want to be true....Neil deGrasse Tyson

[DFC]

The 'Proof of Heaven' Author Has Now Been Thoroughly Debunked by Science


http://www.theatlanticwire.com/entertai ... ked/66772/

[AdamB]

AdamnB didnt say Jesus didnt exist. He is saying there is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God, or God himself.

no Adam b did say there is no proof that Jesus existed.... I will find it

That's right, NO PROOF EXISTS!!

There is the inconclusive "Shroud of Turin" and the forged "Crucible" from a Jewish artefact collector.

What is written in the Bible is not proof because it is not / it cannot be confirmed. There are no corroborating witnesses that can be traced back to the collector and writer.

They don't even know who wrote the gospels...yet they swallow the fabrications and stretching of the truth - hook, line and sinker.

[Habit7]

^^^that is the historical zaniness Duane wants to equate with the historical fact of Jesus' existence.

[Duane 3NE 2NR]

AdamnB didnt say Jesus didnt exist. He is saying there is no evidence that Jesus was the son of God, or God himself.

no Adam b did say there is no proof that Jesus existed.... I will find it

that doesn't make sense for him to say since Jesus is a major prophet in Islam. The only one to be born of a virgin birth. Mary, Jesus' immaculate mother, is one of the few women mentioned in the Qur'an.